Re: K.I.S.S.

Greg Elmassian

Wow, well, I have some experience with DCC and also a lot of experience with teaching and supporting.

When someone asks "how do I program CV29", what do you do?

Here's several legitimate responses:

1. you need to assemble the base 10 number from the bits in the binary representation of CV29
2. you can get a CV calculator

What's best?

Well, you could determine in your mind what is best.

You could spend some time "interviewing" the person to try to give the best response.

You could explain a method and then see if that "took" and if not, try an alternative.

I read this thread and there's some opinions that "anyone can understand binary and you should too", and also "your opinion is bad because you are making someone spend money", and lots of other opinions.

I have my opinions on how I go about answering the question... but won't bring those here.

What I do want to state, and hope my examples help emphasize this: A beginner asking what is a simple question to him, does not necessarily result in a simple answer, and there's many ways to go about it.

If you believe that with very little information other than the "simple question" you can immediately give the "best answer", well, I look up to your capabilities, I surely cannot answer the "CV29 question" without knowing a lot more about the person asking, or spending a lot more time trying various explanations.

So, I think everyone has a point here.

Greg

Re: Rail joiners & PECO

Jennifer Lobo

I agree Scott. I use Peco Streamline code 100 track and rail joiners. Too tight is way better than too loose. I use a pair of long nosed pliers to push them on. I too file the ends...especially the inside of the rail where the burr stops the joiner from going on. I also squeeze the rail joiners twice with side cutters between the centre and the ends to make them even tighter.

The rule of thumb is:  Buy plenty of joiners as there will be wastage.

Regards Geoff Clarke OO gauge in Canada

On Tuesday, May 21, 2019, 8:06:35 p.m. EDT, Scott <scottmac99@...> wrote:

I've been wrestling with Peco OO joiners, but I would much rather they were too tight than too loose.  I file the ends of the rails where I cut them (best way to check if any burrs is to gently run your fingertip over the ends).  Then I use really solid gloves before pushing the two sections of track together.  [At my age, if I don't wear gloves for almost any sort of task, then I can usually virtually guarantee that I'll rip some sort of hole in my finger.]

Re: DCC Meters

Rop Honnor

The accuracy of an AC volts reading when monitoring a DCC potential depends largely upon the sampling rate of your meter.

As stated DCC waveform is square format bi-polar not sinusoidal which is what an AC volts meter uses as its algorithm, therefore the higher the sampling frequency the more chance there is of an accurate DCC reading.

My three (cheapish) meters show a scatter of around +/- 5 volts measuring DCC on the AC volts scale as compared to the reading I see on my PicoScope set up for DCC.

Re: DCC Meters

Don Vollrath

See http://wiringfordcc.com/track.htm#a4
Except for checking or adjusting the voltage output of a booster, the accuracy of any DCC volt meter reading is unimportant unless it is obtained at the actual section of track with a significant amount of current being drawn. The simple reason is that you are probably trying to look for and/or verify voltage drops... which occur only when current is being drawn. 'Open circuit' voltmeter readings are misleading with any ordinary meter due to the peculiar DCC voltage waveform that may be present. See http://wiringfordcc.com/dcc_waveforms.htm

Use Allan's topical index at http://wiringfordcc.com/site_map.htm to find discussions and answers to many oft-repeated questions on this forum.
DonV

Re: Older Shinohara Turnout Confusion

George Galyon

You can contact me at redvdub1@...
G. T. Galyon

Re: DCC Meters

Richard Gagnon

When I connected my Harbor Freight meters to the output of the Power Cab
Had a loco on the track running. They all showed close to 13.6 vac. My Tek scope verified. I did the math conversion.
I figured whatever reading I got would be a bench mark as the loco was running fine and the system was.new
Rich

On Tuesday, May 21, 2019, 1:41 PM, Rop Honnor <robbie.honnor@...> wrote:

The accuracy of an AC volts reading when monitoring a DCC potential depends largely upon the sampling rate of your meter.

As stated DCC waveform is square format bi-polar not sinusoidal which is what an AC volts meter uses as its algorithm, therefore the higher the sampling frequency the more chance there is of an accurate DCC reading.

My three (cheapish) meters show a scatter of around +/- 5 volts measuring DCC on the AC volts scale as compared to the reading I see on my PicoScope set up for DCC.

How to set up locomotive

Lloyd Earnest

I have had my DCC set up for a couple of years. For the past year I I have been unable to do anything with it because of a health problem. I have the engines set up but can not remember how to put the numbers in the controller to run the train 🚂.  Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank yo

Re: How to set up locomotive

wirefordcc

LLoyd,

Who's DCC system do you have?

Allan

Re: How to set up locomotive

Lloyd Earnest

I have Digitrax

Re: How to set up locomotive

wirefordcc

Lloyd,

Do you have a Zephyr or a Chief?  (I assume since you had your system for a while, you don’t have an Evolution.)

You said you don’t know how to set up a locomotive on your system.  Do you know how to power up your system and use it?

Do you still have the manual?

Allan Gartner

Re: DCC Meters

Mark Gurries

On larger layout without a load, you will see the track voltage go up the further you get away from the DCC system or booster powering the track.

The is voltage ringing (spike) on the DCC waveform created by the layout wiring that confuses the meter into reading a higher voltage than what is actually there.

The use a of a ten scope is good in that one can visually ignore the leading edge voltage ringing (Spike) and focus on the flat portion of the DCC waveform for the reading.

To check for voltage drops in the wiring, you will need a large lamp load such as offered by an 12V automotive lamp.

On May 22, 2019, at 1:09 PM, Richard Gagnon via Groups.Io <richg_1998@...> wrote:

When I connected my Harbor Freight meters to the output of the Power Cab
Had a loco on the track running. They all showed close to 13.6 vac. My Tek scope verified. I did the math conversion.
I figured whatever reading I got would be a bench mark as the loco was running fine and the system was.new
Rich

On Tuesday, May 21, 2019, 1:41 PM, Rop Honnor <robbie.honnor@...> wrote:

The accuracy of an AC volts reading when monitoring a DCC potential depends largely upon the sampling rate of your meter.

As stated DCC waveform is square format bi-polar not sinusoidal which is what an AC volts meter uses as its algorithm, therefore the higher the sampling frequency the more chance there is of an accurate DCC reading.

My three (cheapish) meters show a scatter of around +/- 5 volts measuring DCC on the AC volts scale as compared to the reading I see on my PicoScope set up for DCC.

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com

Controlling HO DCC system

Lee Phillips

Can anyone tell me if you can control HO DCC using MTH PCS ?

Re: Controlling HO DCC system

wirefordcc

The MTH DCS system cannot control DCC locomotives.

Some MTH locomotives can be controlled either by MTH's DCS or DCC systems.  All the MTH locomotives I own are like that.

Allan Gartner
Wiring For DCC

Re: Controlling MTH DCS system

Gary Chudzinski

I have an S gauge MTH F-3A/B set. It has the latest DCS version The DCS system leaves a lot to be desired in terms of operating on my NCE DCC system Layout! Many of the functions operate differently and often the locos do not move when first turned on until I reinitiate the consist function, even though the audio and lights operate. There is a significant incompatibility that I doubt will ever be resolved. Some friends have stripped the DCS decoders, in favor of DCC decoders, from their HO and S locos. MTH detailing, however, is very nice in both scales!
Gary Chudzinski

Re: Controlling MTH DCS system

Richard Gagnon

That has been a common discussinion for some time in the Trains.com forums. Not very compatible.

Rich

On Monday, May 27, 2019, 7:43 PM, Gary Chudzinski <chudgr@...> wrote:

I have an S gauge MTH F-3A/B set.  It has the latest DCS version The DCS system leaves a lot to be desired in terms of operating on my NCE DCC system Layout!  Many of the functions operate differently and often the locos do not move when first turned on  until I reinitiate the consist function, even though the audio and lights operate.  There is a significant incompatibility that I doubt will ever be resolved.  Some friends have stripped the DCS decoders, in favor of DCC decoders, from their HO and S locos.  MTH detailing, however, is very nice in both scales!
Gary Chudzinski

Re: Controlling HO DCC system MTH ?

Mark Cartwright

No
Apparently however - it is the other way around, with the ESU ECoS.

I discovered that some DCC Decoders will not fully function even on their own brand (Digitrax to Digitrax Zephyr vs Chief) as some CV's are interpreted differently, but could work effectively that is equally with the ESU ECoS.
====
Now it's  time to tell me this can't possibly be, as all DCC Systems created under the Banner of the NMRA were created equally so.
Q' Pla !
:)) Mark

Re: Controlling HO DCC system MTH ?

Don Vollrath

The 'banner' of the NMRA governs only the DCC signaling interchange to the track and a few particular CVs for normal but minimal operation. From there each manufacturer is free to invent and define what the plethora of other possible CVs actually do and how. So it is not surprising that one needs to carefully read and understand the manual for each brand and type of decoder to determine how to get it to function like you want. Ditto with the variety of DCC control systems. Some are more versatile or limited than others. But your command station and programming method still needs to work in concert with the design of the decoder. DecoderPro exists to help make it somewhat convenient and sense of it all.

DonV

Re: Controlling HO DCC system MTH ?

PennsyNut

Back in the dark ages, our USGovt chose to force the auto mfgrs to standadise the shift quadrant on auto trans to put neutral between drive and reverse. Do you remember that? Well, the NMRA made a feeble attempt to standardize DCC. But the mfgrs apparently think they have better ways of doing things. IMHO I don't see why they do! What is wrong with setting reasonable standards so that we, the poor people (and I refer to the majority of modellers) can purchase a command station and a decoder and expect them to work together. It's bad enough that the decoders are different, but now we have DCS from MTH and it is sole proprietary. Heck even the 3-railers have Lionel and MTH also. And all we have to do is: Refuse to buy MTH. And they will get the message. If their sales drop, who know what they might do? Maybe go away! This business of forcing us to purchase additional equipment to change CV's? Need a booster to change some. Sorry for my rant.
Morgan Bilbo, new to DCC

Re: Controlling HO DCC system MTH ?

Lee Phillips

I agree 100%
Shame the computer people don't get it either
Lee

On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 11:25 AM PennsyNut <pennsynut@...> wrote:
Back in the dark ages, our USGovt chose to force the auto mfgrs to standadise the shift quadrant on auto trans to put neutral between drive and reverse. Do you remember that? Well, the NMRA made a feeble attempt to standardize DCC. But the mfgrs apparently think they have better ways of doing things. IMHO I don't see why they do! What is wrong with setting reasonable standards so that we, the poor people (and I refer to the majority of modellers) can purchase a command station and a decoder and expect them to work together. It's bad enough that the decoders are different, but now we have DCS from MTH and it is sole proprietary. Heck even the 3-railers have Lionel and MTH also. And all we have to do is: Refuse to buy MTH. And they will get the message. If their sales drop, who know what they might do? Maybe go away! This business of forcing us to purchase additional equipment to change CV's? Need a booster to change some. Sorry for my rant.
Morgan Bilbo, new to DCC

Re: Controlling HO DCC system MTH ?

whmvd

THing is, development doesn't happen in a way that helps your view of it. There isn't a standards body that sets standards, after which everyone starts building the same stuff. What happens is that stuff gets developed, and the standards body comes in afterwards looking at raising the best and most consistent practices to a standard, but: the non-standard stuff already exists, ie being sold, and can be very good. Just not compatible.

You are very right in manufacturers getting the message whenb people vote with their wallet. Problem is, a lot of those votes come in before the customers are well enough informed to buy what's best for them.

Ah, economics. You can't beat economics, but sometimes you might want to.
Wouter

On Thu, 30 May 2019 at 16:25, PennsyNut <pennsynut@...> wrote:
Back in the dark ages, our USGovt chose to force the auto mfgrs to standadise the shift quadrant on auto trans to put neutral between drive and reverse. Do you remember that? Well, the NMRA made a feeble attempt to standardize DCC. But the mfgrs apparently think they have better ways of doing things. IMHO I don't see why they do! What is wrong with setting reasonable standards so that we, the poor people (and I refer to the majority of modellers) can purchase a command station and a decoder and expect them to work together. It's bad enough that the decoders are different, but now we have DCS from MTH and it is sole proprietary. Heck even the 3-railers have Lionel and MTH also. And all we have to do is: Refuse to buy MTH. And they will get the message. If their sales drop, who know what they might do? Maybe go away! This business of forcing us to purchase additional equipment to change CV's? Need a booster to change some. Sorry for my rant.
Morgan Bilbo, new to DCC