Date   
Re: K.I.S.S.

Gary Chudzinski
 

Morgan Bilbo writes:   Why do the responses all seem to be: 1> over a beginners head. 2> involve spending money. 3> and sometimes confuse the original requestor. I see this a lot. A man asks about CV's and he gets told to buy a PR4 or it's equivalent to get JMRI and JAVA. Yes, that's good advice, but that isn't what the requester asked. And since I'm guessing that most requester's are novices or beginners, why overload them with future advice.  

Morgan,
Being one whose technical knowledge is somewhere between high tech and new to DCC, I think I can answer your question using the KISS principle!  My observation is that when some individuals with a vast technical knowledge answer a technical question, they don't always respond to the most elementary level of the persons understanding.  This is not a slam at these folks, but there is such a wide range of DCC knowledge and understanding by members of the groups. io Lists that it's difficult to respond to the technical level of each.  I share your frustration at times, but I find responding directly, off list, to the person that has confused me brings results.  I think for the most part, if a person bothers to respond to questions, they are willing to clarify and help individually as much as possible.  When new to DCC, there is a lot to learn and patience, study, re-reading the manuals are all necessary!  It might also be helpful to identify in your post, that you are new to DCC with very limited understanding of DCC vernacular.  That should enhance a KISS response!  Hope this helps. 




DCC Questions and Answers ONLY

wirefordcc
 

This forum has existed for over 20 years.  It has been a place where people could ask their questions and give answers without worrying about being attacked.  This is not a chat group.  It is a Q&A Forum.  The forum has never needed to be moderated.

We seem to be having trouble with this lately.  Therefore, limit your comments to DCC questions and answers ONLY.  If I have to delete another message, I will start banning people from the forum without further comment.  If I have to, I will switch the forum to be a moderated one.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Allan Gartner
Wiring For DCC

Re: DCC Questions and Answers ONLY

Don Poitras
 

Atta boy Allan!.......no monkey business👍
From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> on behalf of wirefordcc <bigboy@...>
Sent: May 21, 2019 9:34:01 AM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: [w4dccqa] DCC Questions and Answers ONLY
 
This forum has existed for over 20 years.  It has been a place where people could ask their questions and give answers without worrying about being attacked.  This is not a chat group.  It is a Q&A Forum.  The forum has never needed to be moderated.

We seem to be having trouble with this lately.  Therefore, limit your comments to DCC questions and answers ONLY.  If I have to delete another message, I will start banning people from the forum without further comment.  If I have to, I will switch the forum to be a moderated one.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Allan Gartner
Wiring For DCC

Re: K.I.S.S.

Lee Phillips
 

Thanks, Gary.
You are right on.  The more  I read, the dumber I become
I have tried to redo some of the CV with engine on track, but get a reading "Not available" to change OPS in this mode
I guess I will have to program on a dummy track



On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 11:51 AM Gary Chudzinski <chudgr@...> wrote:
Morgan Bilbo writes:   Why do the responses all seem to be: 1> over a beginners head. 2> involve spending money. 3> and sometimes confuse the original requestor. I see this a lot. A man asks about CV's and he gets told to buy a PR4 or it's equivalent to get JMRI and JAVA. Yes, that's good advice, but that isn't what the requester asked. And since I'm guessing that most requester's are novices or beginners, why overload them with future advice.  

Morgan,
Being one whose technical knowledge is somewhere between high tech and new to DCC, I think I can answer your question using the KISS principle!  My observation is that when some individuals with a vast technical knowledge answer a technical question, they don't always respond to the most elementary level of the persons understanding.  This is not a slam at these folks, but there is such a wide range of DCC knowledge and understanding by members of the groups. io Lists that it's difficult to respond to the technical level of each.  I share your frustration at times, but I find responding directly, off list, to the person that has confused me brings results.  I think for the most part, if a person bothers to respond to questions, they are willing to clarify and help individually as much as possible.  When new to DCC, there is a lot to learn and patience, study, re-reading the manuals are all necessary!  It might also be helpful to identify in your post, that you are new to DCC with very limited understanding of DCC vernacular.  That should enhance a KISS response!  Hope this helps. 




Re: Rail joiners & PECO

Scott
 
Edited

I've been wrestling with Peco OO joiners, but I would much rather they were too tight than too loose.  I file the ends of the rails where I cut them (best way to check if any burrs is to gently run your fingertip over the ends).  Then I use really solid gloves before pushing/wiggling the two sections of track together.  [At my age, if I don't wear gloves for almost any sort of task, then I can usually virtually guarantee that I'll rip some sort of hole in my finger.]

Re: Older Shinohara Turnout Confusion

George Galyon
 

On the Shinohara double x-overs I am familiar with the "flipping all 4 crossbars" technique eliminates shorts on the "newer" code 100 doubles (the ones with the single crossbar) but it is not sufficient of and by itself for the older
code 100 double cross-bar doubles.  For the older double crossbar crossovers you need to do a little insulation work on the K crossings (the leftmost and the rightmost crossings) by coating the sidewalls of the rails on all 4 sides of the crossing point/s.  Nail polish will work but only for a little while.  I ended up using JB weld and we have run successfully for over 2 years now w/o shorting through the K or X crossings.  We also get through the point-stock rail gaps w/o shorting...maybe our gaps were on the high side of the spec. because some reports indicate that long cars can't make it through without shorting between the point rail and the stock rail.  I have run 80' passenger cars and a Westside Q-2 (4-4-6-4...solid frame) through 4 different Shinohara code 100 double X-overs w/o any shorting problems...could be that I am just lucky..

I do note that some of Alan Gartner's W4DCC authors have quite different experiences with the Shinohara doubles...they apparently had to go the "gap, switch,  and wire" route to get short-free performance.  I got the impression that we
were not working with the same hardware...

I will miss the Shinohara turnouts.  I had a layout with Shinohara code 70 track, turnouts, and a C70 double x-over.  Our current club layout has "very old" Shinohara C100 doubles and a "very old" Shionohara C100 three-way...all worked very well as long as you could jumper wire the point to closure rail connection (if necessary).   And you could see how the Shinohara family constantly improved their product over the years...they really paid attention.  Yes..their little contact
strips at the points could get jammed up...on occasion.  But that was fixable...no biggie. 

BTW...none of the commercially available turnouts are "perfect"...they all have their little gremlins. 

Re: K.I.S.S.

Greg Elmassian
 

Wow, well, I have some experience with DCC and also a lot of experience with teaching and supporting.

When someone asks "how do I program CV29", what do you do?

Here's several legitimate responses:

1. you need to assemble the base 10 number from the bits in the binary representation of CV29
2. you can get a CV calculator
3. you can run a program like JMRI to help you

What's best?

Well, you could determine in your mind what is best.

You could spend some time "interviewing" the person to try to give the best response.

You could explain a method and then see if that "took" and if not, try an alternative.

I read this thread and there's some opinions that "anyone can understand binary and you should too", and also "your opinion is bad because you are making someone spend money", and lots of other opinions.

I have my opinions on how I go about answering the question... but won't bring those here.

What I do want to state, and hope my examples help emphasize this: A beginner asking what is a simple question to him, does not necessarily result in a simple answer, and there's many ways to go about it.

If you believe that with very little information other than the "simple question" you can immediately give the "best answer", well, I look up to your capabilities, I surely cannot answer the "CV29 question" without knowing a lot more about the person asking, or spending a lot more time trying various explanations.

So, I think everyone has a point here.

Greg

Re: Rail joiners & PECO

Jennifer Lobo
 

I agree Scott. I use Peco Streamline code 100 track and rail joiners. Too tight is way better than too loose. I use a pair of long nosed pliers to push them on. I too file the ends...especially the inside of the rail where the burr stops the joiner from going on. I also squeeze the rail joiners twice with side cutters between the centre and the ends to make them even tighter.

The rule of thumb is:  Buy plenty of joiners as there will be wastage.

Regards Geoff Clarke OO gauge in Canada


On Tuesday, May 21, 2019, 8:06:35 p.m. EDT, Scott <scottmac99@...> wrote:


I've been wrestling with Peco OO joiners, but I would much rather they were too tight than too loose.  I file the ends of the rails where I cut them (best way to check if any burrs is to gently run your fingertip over the ends).  Then I use really solid gloves before pushing the two sections of track together.  [At my age, if I don't wear gloves for almost any sort of task, then I can usually virtually guarantee that I'll rip some sort of hole in my finger.]

Re: DCC Meters

Rop Honnor
 

The accuracy of an AC volts reading when monitoring a DCC potential depends largely upon the sampling rate of your meter.

As stated DCC waveform is square format bi-polar not sinusoidal which is what an AC volts meter uses as its algorithm, therefore the higher the sampling frequency the more chance there is of an accurate DCC reading.

My three (cheapish) meters show a scatter of around +/- 5 volts measuring DCC on the AC volts scale as compared to the reading I see on my PicoScope set up for DCC.

Re: DCC Meters

Don Vollrath
 

See http://wiringfordcc.com/track.htm#a4
Except for checking or adjusting the voltage output of a booster, the accuracy of any DCC volt meter reading is unimportant unless it is obtained at the actual section of track with a significant amount of current being drawn. The simple reason is that you are probably trying to look for and/or verify voltage drops... which occur only when current is being drawn. 'Open circuit' voltmeter readings are misleading with any ordinary meter due to the peculiar DCC voltage waveform that may be present. See http://wiringfordcc.com/dcc_waveforms.htm 

Use Allan's topical index at http://wiringfordcc.com/site_map.htm to find discussions and answers to many oft-repeated questions on this forum.
DonV

Re: Older Shinohara Turnout Confusion

George Galyon
 

You can contact me at redvdub1@...
G. T. Galyon

Re: DCC Meters

Richard Gagnon
 

When I connected my Harbor Freight meters to the output of the Power Cab 
Had a loco on the track running. They all showed close to 13.6 vac. My Tek scope verified. I did the math conversion.
I figured whatever reading I got would be a bench mark as the loco was running fine and the system was.new
Rich



On Tuesday, May 21, 2019, 1:41 PM, Rop Honnor <robbie.honnor@...> wrote:

The accuracy of an AC volts reading when monitoring a DCC potential depends largely upon the sampling rate of your meter.

As stated DCC waveform is square format bi-polar not sinusoidal which is what an AC volts meter uses as its algorithm, therefore the higher the sampling frequency the more chance there is of an accurate DCC reading.

My three (cheapish) meters show a scatter of around +/- 5 volts measuring DCC on the AC volts scale as compared to the reading I see on my PicoScope set up for DCC.

How to set up locomotive

Lloyd Earnest
 

I have had my DCC set up for a couple of years. For the past year I I have been unable to do anything with it because of a health problem. I have the engines set up but can not remember how to put the numbers in the controller to run the train 🚂.  Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank yo

Re: How to set up locomotive

wirefordcc
 

LLoyd,

Who's DCC system do you have?

Allan

Re: How to set up locomotive

Lloyd Earnest
 

I have Digitrax

Re: How to set up locomotive

wirefordcc
 

Lloyd,

 

Do you have a Zephyr or a Chief?  (I assume since you had your system for a while, you don’t have an Evolution.)

 

You said you don’t know how to set up a locomotive on your system.  Do you know how to power up your system and use it?

 

Do you still have the manual?

 

Allan Gartner  WiringForDCC.com 

        

 

Re: DCC Meters

Mark Gurries
 

On larger layout without a load, you will see the track voltage go up the further you get away from the DCC system or booster powering the track.

The is voltage ringing (spike) on the DCC waveform created by the layout wiring that confuses the meter into reading a higher voltage than what is actually there.

The use a of a ten scope is good in that one can visually ignore the leading edge voltage ringing (Spike) and focus on the flat portion of the DCC waveform for the reading.

The advantage of having a resistive or locomotive head lamp load is it consumes the voltage ringing/spike by absorbing it.  Your presented with a much cleaner reading.

To check for voltage drops in the wiring, you will need a large lamp load such as offered by an 12V automotive lamp.

On May 22, 2019, at 1:09 PM, Richard Gagnon via Groups.Io <richg_1998@...> wrote:

When I connected my Harbor Freight meters to the output of the Power Cab 
Had a loco on the track running. They all showed close to 13.6 vac. My Tek scope verified. I did the math conversion.
I figured whatever reading I got would be a bench mark as the loco was running fine and the system was.new
Rich



On Tuesday, May 21, 2019, 1:41 PM, Rop Honnor <robbie.honnor@...> wrote:

The accuracy of an AC volts reading when monitoring a DCC potential depends largely upon the sampling rate of your meter.

As stated DCC waveform is square format bi-polar not sinusoidal which is what an AC volts meter uses as its algorithm, therefore the higher the sampling frequency the more chance there is of an accurate DCC reading.

My three (cheapish) meters show a scatter of around +/- 5 volts measuring DCC on the AC volts scale as compared to the reading I see on my PicoScope set up for DCC.

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Controlling HO DCC system

Lee Phillips
 

Can anyone tell me if you can control HO DCC using MTH PCS ?

Re: Controlling HO DCC system

wirefordcc
 

The MTH DCS system cannot control DCC locomotives. 

Some MTH locomotives can be controlled either by MTH's DCS or DCC systems.  All the MTH locomotives I own are like that.

Allan Gartner
Wiring For DCC

Re: Controlling MTH DCS system

Gary Chudzinski
 

I have an S gauge MTH F-3A/B set. It has the latest DCS version The DCS system leaves a lot to be desired in terms of operating on my NCE DCC system Layout! Many of the functions operate differently and often the locos do not move when first turned on until I reinitiate the consist function, even though the audio and lights operate. There is a significant incompatibility that I doubt will ever be resolved. Some friends have stripped the DCS decoders, in favor of DCC decoders, from their HO and S locos. MTH detailing, however, is very nice in both scales!
Gary Chudzinski