Date   
Re: Older Shinohara Turnout Confusion

Jennifer Lobo
 

Peco streamline points are all based on 2 inch spacing too.


Geoff Clarke


On Saturday, May 11, 2019, 9:55:08 a.m. EDT, Brian Eiland <railandsail@...> wrote:


I have a couple of those older Shinohara double crossovers, and I am really hoping to use at least one of them,...and particularly because of its 2" centerline track dimensions. Here is a subject thread I started on the subject just recently,..

Double-Crossover Dissection, and particularly Shinohara

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/36467 

One appendix I saw on Allan's site was this one,...





Double Crossover Tutorial

G.T. Galyon has shared his experience with the Walther's/Shinohara double crossovers.  Click below on his tutorial on implementing these crossovers.

DoubleCrossover_Galyon.pdf

 

This is one of the most clear explanations I have run across. He also describes how to utilize the older crossovers with very minimal modifications. I need to reread it again to insure I understand it all.

There are a few additional questions I would like to ask of him. Would anyone know how to contact the gentleman thru email??

 

Rail Gaps

emrldsky
 

I have been told that when gaping rails for isolation  that the left rail gap should be in line with the right rail gap. However, the documentation for the reversers, PSX-AR say that they should  be offset by 3/4 inch.

Why the difference? As I use Kato HO Unitrack, providing the offset requires much modification to track pieces.

I have not had problems with aligned gaps.

Peace,

Mike G.


New file uploaded to w4dccqa@groups.io

w4dccqa@groups.io Notification <w4dccqa+notification@...>
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the w4dccqa@groups.io group.

File: U_Turn=20190511a_1.pdf

Uploaded By: emrldsky

Description:
U Turn from one track to another with Reverser hookup

You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.io/g/w4dccqa/files/U_Turn=20190511a_1.pdf

Cheers,
The Groups.io Team

U Turn & Reverser

emrldsky
 

I have loaded a file named U_Turn=20190511a_1.pdf into the files section. I believe the gaps and the connection using a PSX-AR reverser will function as expected. One train at a time is the anticipated operation. The train may enter the U Turn from either track and proceed to the other track.

Thoughts? Comments?

Peace,

Mike G.

Re: Reverse Loop Gaps and Power Booster for my layout question

Ian Cole
 

Don,

Awesome!  Thanks for the advice!!  The point of interference is appreciated; I don't plan on operating sessions, it's just me and my railroad, but that might be a future consideration if I ever do.  Glad to hear I will only need one reverser as I already own one, if I can find it after the move.  The turntable is the recent Walthers release, and if I remember correctly it has a reverser built in, but will double check the instructions.  Also glad to hear I don't need a booster.

Thanks again for the feedback!!

Re: U Turn & Reverser

Don Vollrath
 

Mike, Your idea will work as expected. Make sure you have good electrical connections and track feeder wiring somewhere near the reversing section gaps for flawless performance. You may need to adjust the PSX-AR trip threshold if your booster is rated less than 5 amps. But an OG-AR is less expensive and will work as well with a 5 amp controller/booster.
DonV

Re: Rail Gaps

Don Vollrath
 

This subject has been beaten to death several times in this and other forums. There is no real proof that the gaps need to be offset... other than caused by poor wiring practice. Just place both insulated rail joiners at convenient places. Where the continuing rails connect to a turnout is usually a great place to do that. No need to cut any gaps.
DonV 

Re: Older Shinohara Turnout Confusion

Don Vollrath
 

It is interesting to note that if one flips all 4 throwbars to either be straight or 'X-over' there is no need to worry about shorts at the frogs. No special gaps required or other bonding wires. Yes this does rely on the rail points for making good electrical contact. The exception of course is that older wheel sets with over sized flanges or ones out of gauge may still lick an opposite polarity rail on the back side. Not totally 'DCC Friendly' according to the letters but mine give flawless performance.
DonV 

Re: Older Shinohara Turnout Confusion

Bill Wilken
 

I threw in the towel with the Code 83 #6 crossovers.  Long wheelbase 4-8-4s just cannot negotiate them decently.


On May 11, 2019, at 9:55 AM, Brian Eiland <railandsail@...> wrote:

I have a couple of those older Shinohara double crossovers, and I am really hoping to use at least one of them,...and particularly because of its 2" centerline track dimensions. Here is a subject thread I started on the subject just recently,..

Double-Crossover Dissection, and particularly Shinohara

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/36467 

One appendix I saw on Allan's site was this one,...


Double Crossover Tutorial

G.T. Galyon has shared his experience with the Walther's/Shinohara double crossovers.  Click below on his tutorial on implementing these crossovers.

DoubleCrossover_Galyon.pdf

 

This is one of the most clear explanations I have run across. He also describes how to utilize the older crossovers with very minimal modifications. I need to reread it again to insure I understand it all.

There are a few additional questions I would like to ask of him. Would anyone know how to contact the gentleman thru email??

 

Re: U Turn & Reverser

emrldsky
 

Thanks Don,

The only possible issue would be if there was an engine sitting on one of the sidings of the U, and another endine enters from the other side. The reverser would trip, but I am not sure what the result would be for the engine on the siding.

Peace,

Mike G.

Re: Rail Gaps

whmvd
 

Hi Mike,

There's been a nearly endless discussion on this on either the NCE-DCC forum or the jmriusers one - don't remember which, sorry. The upshot of it was that there are two schools of thought, neither of which could convince the other. Also, and most importantly, nobody had any evidence of anything wrong with the other side's way of working - just lots of theories.

It seemed to me from all that that it didn't make a blind bit of difference, but you'll probably hear people fighting one of the corners here.

Wouter


On Sat, 11 May 2019 at 20:11, emrldsky <azMikeG@...> wrote:

I have been told that when gaping rails for isolation  that the left rail gap should be in line with the right rail gap. However, the documentation for the reversers, PSX-AR say that they should  be offset by 3/4 inch.

Why the difference? As I use Kato HO Unitrack, providing the offset requires much modification to track pieces.

I have not had problems with aligned gaps.

Peace,

Mike G.


Re: Rail Gaps

Mark Gurries
 


There is no theory about how an autoreverser works.

If there is no technical analysis supporting how offset gaps are solving any problem, then wye would one want to go out of their way spending extra time and effort to create them?

Make is easy for yourself.

On May 11, 2019, at 1:58 PM, whmvd <vandoornw@...> wrote:

Hi Mike,

There's been a nearly endless discussion on this on either the NCE-DCC forum or the jmriusers one - don't remember which, sorry. The upshot of it was that there are two schools of thought, neither of which could convince the other. Also, and most importantly, nobody had any evidence of anything wrong with the other side's way of working - just lots of theories.

It seemed to me from all that that it didn't make a blind bit of difference, but you'll probably hear people fighting one of the corners here.

Wouter

On Sat, 11 May 2019 at 20:11, emrldsky <azMikeG@...> wrote:

I have been told that when gaping rails for isolation  that the left rail gap should be in line with the right rail gap. However, the documentation for the reversers, PSX-AR say that they should  be offset by 3/4 inch.

Why the difference? As I use Kato HO Unitrack, providing the offset requires much modification to track pieces.

I have not had problems with aligned gaps.

Peace,

Mike G.





Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Re: Rail Gaps

Mark Gurries
 


Why I say No Theory, I mean there is no Magic.   It is a simple device.

On May 11, 2019, at 5:33 PM, Mark Gurries <gurriesm@...> wrote:


There is no theory about how an autoreverser works.

If there is no technical analysis supporting how offset gaps are solving any problem, then wye would one want to go out of their way spending extra time and effort to create them?

Make is easy for yourself.

On May 11, 2019, at 1:58 PM, whmvd <vandoornw@...> wrote:

Hi Mike,

There's been a nearly endless discussion on this on either the NCE-DCC forum or the jmriusers one - don't remember which, sorry. The upshot of it was that there are two schools of thought, neither of which could convince the other. Also, and most importantly, nobody had any evidence of anything wrong with the other side's way of working - just lots of theories.

It seemed to me from all that that it didn't make a blind bit of difference, but you'll probably hear people fighting one of the corners here.

Wouter

On Sat, 11 May 2019 at 20:11, emrldsky <azMikeG@...> wrote:

I have been told that when gaping rails for isolation  that the left rail gap should be in line with the right rail gap. However, the documentation for the reversers, PSX-AR say that they should  be offset by 3/4 inch.

Why the difference? As I use Kato HO Unitrack, providing the offset requires much modification to track pieces.

I have not had problems with aligned gaps.

Peace,

Mike G.





Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com




Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Re: Rail Gaps

John Johnston <towboatjohnston@...>
 

For what it’s worth, I have tried both ways in N scale, both with Atlas code 80 and PECO code 55. As Wouter aptly said, it didn’t make a blind bit of difference. 

John Johnston
(713) 240-1687
Sent from iPhone via gmail

On May 11, 2019, at 4:58 PM, whmvd <vandoornw@...> wrote:

Hi Mike,

There's been a nearly endless discussion on this on either the NCE-DCC forum or the jmriusers one - don't remember which, sorry. The upshot of it was that there are two schools of thought, neither of which could convince the other. Also, and most importantly, nobody had any evidence of anything wrong with the other side's way of working - just lots of theories.

It seemed to me from all that that it didn't make a blind bit of difference, but you'll probably hear people fighting one of the corners here.

Wouter

On Sat, 11 May 2019 at 20:11, emrldsky <azMikeG@...> wrote:

I have been told that when gaping rails for isolation  that the left rail gap should be in line with the right rail gap. However, the documentation for the reversers, PSX-AR say that they should  be offset by 3/4 inch.

Why the difference? As I use Kato HO Unitrack, providing the offset requires much modification to track pieces.

I have not had problems with aligned gaps.

Peace,

Mike G.


Re: U Turn & Reverser

Don Vollrath
 

Any loco or even several locos already inside a reversing section, idle or running, will not be affected by the AR unit doing its thing when yet another entering loco causes the AR unit to reverse the polarity of voltage on the track. That is the beauty of DCC.
DonV

Re: Older Shinohara Turnout Confusion

Rick Beatty
 

Thanks for those links.  After reading those and some other discussions I now have a better understanding of the issues.

Re: U Turn & Reverser

Brendan S
 

Makes no difference to engine(s) already in the reversing section.  

Brendan  

Re: Rail Gaps and the N Scale Nakamura Cab Forward... And this makes me Smile.

Mark Cartwright
 

With all of the above said....
I am at present on a new concept of limiting abuses in my life which include N Scale Turnouts and so called Auto Reversers...along with other aspects of model railroading (as well as in my Other Lives)
There is only so much a Substitute Teacher in California can endure.
When I get Home from the day, I do not need more challenges and questionable actions in MY HOBBY.
======
Perhaps you can tell me ....
Why an N Scale Layout depicting Northern California yet in Prague....impresses me ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iYiBqTjJck
WYE can't I make it so.....?
Too many freaking distractions in California. We can't even get a Bullet Train to run...between Fresno and Bakersfield.
======
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iEEbYIWhxM
Design a Layout around this
http://spookshow.net/loco/keyac12.html

For now...I am designing my layout(s) to run but one Locomotive with a 30 car train behind it.
DC or DCC?
At this point I don't care.....
Though at the moment (this too will change) I own over 10 various DCC Controllers as well as over 100 Decoder equipped Locomotives.
No, I am not attempting to first run (again) an Athearn Big Boy or Challenger nor even an Intermountain DCC Cab Forward..
Nor for that matter a Walther's Y6B. (I own more than one example of each)
They all have issues....and so do N Scale Turnouts and Ought-to Reversers.
Trying to accommodate each loco in motion...has given me enough motive to be driven loco.
My efforts remind me of the song by Creedcence Ooby Dooby.
You move to the left you move to the right....you try with all of your might 
And in the end you are speaking gibberish.
Ugh!
Ooby Dooby.
If you didn't quite get my meaning.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcKp7Iiepsg
Even a freaking genius has his moments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQGp83kAwUk
Gap this Gap Just do that.....Then offset your gaps.....to the left and to the right.
Does it help ?
No, cause the way the contacting points on a particular locomotive may hit the rail differently between various versions.
So while some long locomotives may travel over a #6...
Good Luck in getting even one to travel successfully over a #4 consistently (even though it says it can on the box).
For now...I have gone to #9's and larger as per BNSF Specifications.
======
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/p/206108/2254556.aspx

So if Auto Reversers have PERSISTENT  problems....(Yes, and further I own at least one example of all of them)
Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result is a definition of crazy.
Good Luck with that!
which is my translation for Ooby Dooby.
=====================
=====================
I saw a Cab Forward in operation in 1955...which is why I am so motivated to run one correctly.
======
My parents had many friends who worked for the Santa Fe, Western Pacific and Southern Pacific in the day.
My father called the Cab Forward ...The Ass-Backwards Locomotive.
So does running a Locomotive back wards help.....
https://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?threads/dcc-and-auto-reverse-question.105322/
Ooby Dooby!
Perhaps the first words out of my mouth in 1955, as a two year old seeing his first Cab Forward in operation.
====
RESULT ?
The ESU ECoS had a shorter time mode to reverse switching at a higher voltage than many other DCC Controllers and Auto Reversers.
No...I do not yet know if this is the answer and I am not so sure I want to burn up a Nakamura Cab Forward to find out True.

Let Mickey do it....
I will probably use my Athearn, Intermountain and Walthers DCC Long Steam to test my theories/trackage; purchased at around $150 each...cause it ain't gonna be my Hallmark 4-10-2 with LokSound at over $500.
========
DC for now may not be so bad...
Model Railroading is Fun!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2umTTPFfiiY

For now...
All I want to do is run a Nakamura Cab Forward Train through the walls around the perimeter of my house up on the crest of my crown molding...
So I can drive my cats nuts.
They love the sounds and lights which my trains make and love to run through the house with their little feet.
And this makes me Smile.
:)) Mark

Don't throw a dog a bone ...
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/throw+a+bone
Dog Bone Loops on a layout are a Trivial Pursuit.

Purpose of this Q&A Forum

wirefordcc
 

All,

Please be mindful of the purpose of this QUESTION and ANSWER Forum.  This is not a chatty group.  I've had to delete several threads and mute topics in the past few weeks.  Please be respectful of people who come here to get their questions answered.

Thank you

Allan Gartner
Wiring For DCC

Re: Purpose of this Q&A Forum

Ric Zimmerman
 

Thank you, Allan!