Date   
Re: Looking for best DCC FOR UP big boy especially whistle

Mark Cartwright
 

Pat....
There is another whole/hole consideration with Big Boys and DCC with Sound.
Example....
I own this N Scale Brass Model of the Big Boy 
http://spookshow.net/loco/keybigboy.html
As well as few of the Plastic Versions in N Scale, along with Other Long Steam Locomotives in both HO and N Scale.
http://spookshow.net/loco/athearn4884.html
Read both of the above....
Very Carefully....in all of the Big Boy Reincarnations...and FEF-3's too and their tenders as well as the motivations of selecting different decoders.
Then consider this.
What are you guys doing !?!?
Attempting to back up an FEF-3 and it's multi angled tender over Questionable (curved) Track ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N55UH_2Kmec

STOP!
Okay....Now besides the Mechanical/Physics....
Add in an Electronic function as well with DCC and Sound.

Good Luck !
====
I do not want to discourage you in a purchase of a Big Boy or even a full DCC System to begin to Make it So....
Once you do that...and can get it to run on a straight section of track ...and can back it up too.
We can begin again.
:)) Mark

If you find yourself riding alone in green fields ...Do not be troubled.

I am in an attempt to run perhaps only one long steam locomotive 
Alone....with a train behind it...through Green Fields.
Through and around the perimeter of my House...as well as across a Bridge over to a Layout Space of 30 x 25 feet.
No Trouble ?
= Long Straights
= Parabolic Wide Curves
= Few but when employed long turnouts.
over nothing steeper (as possible) with a Grade of 1.5%.
=====
Why does this UP Modeler hate his Helix ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgN_cSK2I_s

Cut two holes in it, so you can. - Patton.
I am considering cutting two holes in my house to run a helix in new construction in my back yard.
Yes, I have a Helix and it works for 99% of my N Scale Fleet.

Older Shinohara Turnout Confusion

Rick Beatty
 

Allan's page for wiring older Shinohara turnouts has two methods for making them DCC friendly and how to subsequently wire them.

There is also a short section that says you can try to use them unmodified out of the box and hope you don't have shorts.  (I am paraphrasing.)  That seems too simple compared to the major modifications in the other methods.

What am I missing here?  Is there more to the modifications than just avoiding a short?

Rick

Re: Older Shinohara Turnout Confusion

Craig Zeni
 

On May 10, 2019, at 9:33 AM, Richard Beatty wrote:

Allan's page for wiring older Shinohara turnouts has two methods for making them DCC friendly and how to subsequently wire them.

There is also a short section that says you can try to use them unmodified out of the box and hope you don't have shorts. (I am paraphrasing.) That seems too simple compared to the major modifications in the other methods.

What am I missing here? Is there more to the modifications than just avoiding a short?
The common problem with old Shinohara turnouts is that the open point rail is too close to the backside of the wheel, eg, the point rail gap aka back-to-back doesn't meet the NMRA guage. When the backside of the wheel touches the open point, it's a dead short thru the wheel to the rail it's running on. We ran for years on a layout with a hundred old Shinoharas that had been gone thru over time (as they created issues); eventually they ran without shorting problems and ran reliably. IF ( and that's a giant IF) your wheels and your turnouts are all up to NMRA scratch, you'll have good performance.

Craig Zeni
Cary NC

Re: Older Shinohara Turnout Confusion

wirefordcc
 

Hi Rick,

Do you really have some of the older Shinohara turnouts?  I'd imagine they are pretty rare now.

Before I answer your question, be aware that there will be new Walthers turnouts in a few months.  There may be some differences from the Walthers/Shinoharas that everyone loved until the factory shut down late last year.  I'm eager to see one when they come out.

Whether you modify your turnouts really depends on your soldering skills.  Soldering pieces of metal rail attached to plastic ties can be a challenge and isn't for everyone.  I'd hate for you to ruin a bunch of turnouts trying to get the job done.  Now that you can't get Walthers/Shinohara turnouts right now, it would not only be expensive to damage them, but replacing them may be impossible.  Note that other brands of turnouts are usually not physically interchangeable.

Allan Gartner
Wiring For DCC

Re: Older Shinohara Turnout Confusion

Rick Beatty
 

I built my layout about 20 years ago and used mainly Peco electrofrog turnouts.   They were all modified to make them DCC friendly.  There was one section where I put a Shinohara turnout on the mainline to go into an industrial siding. I designed it to use another Shinohara turnout to create two tracks and bought them, but only used the one on the mainline that goes to nowhere. 

I am finally getting around to finishing that section and needed to bone up on how to wire and modify the turnouts. The scene is a steel mill high line and I will just back ore cars onto it.  The locomotives won’t go past the first turnout. 

I am inclined to roll the dice but wanted to ask for opinions first. 

Re: Older Shinohara Turnout Confusion

Brian Eiland
 

I have a couple of those older Shinohara double crossovers, and I am really hoping to use at least one of them,...and particularly because of its 2" centerline track dimensions. Here is a subject thread I started on the subject just recently,..

Double-Crossover Dissection, and particularly Shinohara

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/36467 

One appendix I saw on Allan's site was this one,...


Double Crossover Tutorial

G.T. Galyon has shared his experience with the Walther's/Shinohara double crossovers.  Click below on his tutorial on implementing these crossovers.

DoubleCrossover_Galyon.pdf

 

This is one of the most clear explanations I have run across. He also describes how to utilize the older crossovers with very minimal modifications. I need to reread it again to insure I understand it all.

There are a few additional questions I would like to ask of him. Would anyone know how to contact the gentleman thru email??

 

Reverse Loop Gaps and Power Booster for my layout question

Ian Cole
 

Greetings all!  I just finished the the benchwork and beginning the track laying and wiring on my new layout.  HO Scale, using NCE DCC (PH-PRO 5AMP).  In the photo linked I've marked with red lines where I feel I need to put in gaps and ARUs to avoid shorts.  Do these look like the best spots?  Also, would I be better served isolating the whole yard/turntable area and putting in a power booster?  For reference, bottom table is 21', right table 13', top table 14'.
 
Link to the photo of my layout: http://tinypic.com/r/15gf6ol/9
 
Thanks in advance for any advice!
 
Ian

Re: Reverse Loop Gaps and Power Booster for my layout question

Don Vollrath
 

Ian, The location of red both-rail gaps is good to isolate the main area of train reversals. You will need a single AR controller to control those rails.It does have 5 entrance/exit points which can lead to interference if you have more than one operator using that area. But the track plan almost prohibits that except for loco only or short train moves.
You will need some type of reverser on the turntable if you plan on turning a loco all the way around.
I would not bother with adding another booster district if this is HO or smaller scale. It is highly unlikely you will actually need more than 5 amps to operate the layout. Just place the main controller/booster near the geographic center of the 'U' (lower right in the photo) with the AR unit right next to it and the DCC bus runs in either directions will be kept to minimum length.
DonV   

Re: Older Shinohara Turnout Confusion

Jennifer Lobo
 

Peco streamline points are all based on 2 inch spacing too.


Geoff Clarke


On Saturday, May 11, 2019, 9:55:08 a.m. EDT, Brian Eiland <railandsail@...> wrote:


I have a couple of those older Shinohara double crossovers, and I am really hoping to use at least one of them,...and particularly because of its 2" centerline track dimensions. Here is a subject thread I started on the subject just recently,..

Double-Crossover Dissection, and particularly Shinohara

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/36467 

One appendix I saw on Allan's site was this one,...





Double Crossover Tutorial

G.T. Galyon has shared his experience with the Walther's/Shinohara double crossovers.  Click below on his tutorial on implementing these crossovers.

DoubleCrossover_Galyon.pdf

 

This is one of the most clear explanations I have run across. He also describes how to utilize the older crossovers with very minimal modifications. I need to reread it again to insure I understand it all.

There are a few additional questions I would like to ask of him. Would anyone know how to contact the gentleman thru email??

 

Rail Gaps

emrldsky
 

I have been told that when gaping rails for isolation  that the left rail gap should be in line with the right rail gap. However, the documentation for the reversers, PSX-AR say that they should  be offset by 3/4 inch.

Why the difference? As I use Kato HO Unitrack, providing the offset requires much modification to track pieces.

I have not had problems with aligned gaps.

Peace,

Mike G.


New file uploaded to w4dccqa@groups.io

w4dccqa@groups.io Notification <w4dccqa+notification@...>
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the w4dccqa@groups.io group.

File: U_Turn=20190511a_1.pdf

Uploaded By: emrldsky

Description:
U Turn from one track to another with Reverser hookup

You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.io/g/w4dccqa/files/U_Turn=20190511a_1.pdf

Cheers,
The Groups.io Team

U Turn & Reverser

emrldsky
 

I have loaded a file named U_Turn=20190511a_1.pdf into the files section. I believe the gaps and the connection using a PSX-AR reverser will function as expected. One train at a time is the anticipated operation. The train may enter the U Turn from either track and proceed to the other track.

Thoughts? Comments?

Peace,

Mike G.

Re: Reverse Loop Gaps and Power Booster for my layout question

Ian Cole
 

Don,

Awesome!  Thanks for the advice!!  The point of interference is appreciated; I don't plan on operating sessions, it's just me and my railroad, but that might be a future consideration if I ever do.  Glad to hear I will only need one reverser as I already own one, if I can find it after the move.  The turntable is the recent Walthers release, and if I remember correctly it has a reverser built in, but will double check the instructions.  Also glad to hear I don't need a booster.

Thanks again for the feedback!!

Re: U Turn & Reverser

Don Vollrath
 

Mike, Your idea will work as expected. Make sure you have good electrical connections and track feeder wiring somewhere near the reversing section gaps for flawless performance. You may need to adjust the PSX-AR trip threshold if your booster is rated less than 5 amps. But an OG-AR is less expensive and will work as well with a 5 amp controller/booster.
DonV

Re: Rail Gaps

Don Vollrath
 

This subject has been beaten to death several times in this and other forums. There is no real proof that the gaps need to be offset... other than caused by poor wiring practice. Just place both insulated rail joiners at convenient places. Where the continuing rails connect to a turnout is usually a great place to do that. No need to cut any gaps.
DonV 

Re: Older Shinohara Turnout Confusion

Don Vollrath
 

It is interesting to note that if one flips all 4 throwbars to either be straight or 'X-over' there is no need to worry about shorts at the frogs. No special gaps required or other bonding wires. Yes this does rely on the rail points for making good electrical contact. The exception of course is that older wheel sets with over sized flanges or ones out of gauge may still lick an opposite polarity rail on the back side. Not totally 'DCC Friendly' according to the letters but mine give flawless performance.
DonV 

Re: Older Shinohara Turnout Confusion

Bill Wilken
 

I threw in the towel with the Code 83 #6 crossovers.  Long wheelbase 4-8-4s just cannot negotiate them decently.


On May 11, 2019, at 9:55 AM, Brian Eiland <railandsail@...> wrote:

I have a couple of those older Shinohara double crossovers, and I am really hoping to use at least one of them,...and particularly because of its 2" centerline track dimensions. Here is a subject thread I started on the subject just recently,..

Double-Crossover Dissection, and particularly Shinohara

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/36467 

One appendix I saw on Allan's site was this one,...


Double Crossover Tutorial

G.T. Galyon has shared his experience with the Walther's/Shinohara double crossovers.  Click below on his tutorial on implementing these crossovers.

DoubleCrossover_Galyon.pdf

 

This is one of the most clear explanations I have run across. He also describes how to utilize the older crossovers with very minimal modifications. I need to reread it again to insure I understand it all.

There are a few additional questions I would like to ask of him. Would anyone know how to contact the gentleman thru email??

 

Re: U Turn & Reverser

emrldsky
 

Thanks Don,

The only possible issue would be if there was an engine sitting on one of the sidings of the U, and another endine enters from the other side. The reverser would trip, but I am not sure what the result would be for the engine on the siding.

Peace,

Mike G.

Re: Rail Gaps

whmvd
 

Hi Mike,

There's been a nearly endless discussion on this on either the NCE-DCC forum or the jmriusers one - don't remember which, sorry. The upshot of it was that there are two schools of thought, neither of which could convince the other. Also, and most importantly, nobody had any evidence of anything wrong with the other side's way of working - just lots of theories.

It seemed to me from all that that it didn't make a blind bit of difference, but you'll probably hear people fighting one of the corners here.

Wouter


On Sat, 11 May 2019 at 20:11, emrldsky <azMikeG@...> wrote:

I have been told that when gaping rails for isolation  that the left rail gap should be in line with the right rail gap. However, the documentation for the reversers, PSX-AR say that they should  be offset by 3/4 inch.

Why the difference? As I use Kato HO Unitrack, providing the offset requires much modification to track pieces.

I have not had problems with aligned gaps.

Peace,

Mike G.


Re: Rail Gaps

Mark Gurries
 


There is no theory about how an autoreverser works.

If there is no technical analysis supporting how offset gaps are solving any problem, then wye would one want to go out of their way spending extra time and effort to create them?

Make is easy for yourself.

On May 11, 2019, at 1:58 PM, whmvd <vandoornw@...> wrote:

Hi Mike,

There's been a nearly endless discussion on this on either the NCE-DCC forum or the jmriusers one - don't remember which, sorry. The upshot of it was that there are two schools of thought, neither of which could convince the other. Also, and most importantly, nobody had any evidence of anything wrong with the other side's way of working - just lots of theories.

It seemed to me from all that that it didn't make a blind bit of difference, but you'll probably hear people fighting one of the corners here.

Wouter

On Sat, 11 May 2019 at 20:11, emrldsky <azMikeG@...> wrote:

I have been told that when gaping rails for isolation  that the left rail gap should be in line with the right rail gap. However, the documentation for the reversers, PSX-AR say that they should  be offset by 3/4 inch.

Why the difference? As I use Kato HO Unitrack, providing the offset requires much modification to track pieces.

I have not had problems with aligned gaps.

Peace,

Mike G.





Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com