Date   
Reversing Loop Controlers

Timothy Holmes <taholmes160@...>
 

HI Folks:

Due to my layout design, I will end up with 3 reversing loops -- 2 are
currently in existence, and right now I am using DPDT toggle switches
to control them -- they work, but ANNOYING. I know there are
automatic units out there from many manufacturers. Im not asking
whats out there, I am asking for RECOMMENDATIONS as to which ones you
like and think work best.

I am running N scale, hopefully eventually 2 - 3 trains at a time,
some with 2 -3 locomotives at a time, I am currently using a NCE
Powercab, which I hope to upgrade to an SB5 soon and eventually radio
control

Thanks for your input

TIM
San Luis and Rio Grande

Re: Reversing Loop Controlers

Al Silverstein
 

Tim,

You have a number of choices depending on the construction of your reversing section. If you want automatic phasing then the three most common devices that I am aware of are the DCC Specialties PSX.AR, the MRC AD520 and the Digitrax AR1.

If your reverse section is where the track double backs upon itself like a simple loop and if your turnout point control device as spare DPDT contacts then you
could just wire the contacts of the turnout point control device to handle the power to the rails something like the DPDT toggle switches you use today. Now if you are using a snap action turnout then Atlas you can use the Atlas #260 snap-relay.

Recommendations are just that. The recommendation Is the solution that the person providing the recommendation prefers.

Al Silverstein.

Re: Reversing Loop Controlers

Harlan Boyce
 

I use DCC Speciality PSX.AR. Really good units

Boyce's iPhone

On Jan 2, 2019, at 1:46 PM, Al Silverstein <alsilverstein@...> wrote:

Tim,

You have a number of choices depending on the construction of your reversing section. If you want automatic phasing then the three most common devices that I am aware of are the DCC Specialties PSX.AR, the MRC AD520 and the Digitrax AR1.

If your reverse section is where the track double backs upon itself like a simple loop and if your turnout point control device as spare DPDT contacts then you
could just wire the contacts of the turnout point control device to handle the power to the rails something like the DPDT toggle switches you use today. Now if you are using a snap action turnout then Atlas you can use the Atlas #260 snap-relay.

Recommendations are just that. The recommendation Is the solution that the person providing the recommendation prefers.

Al Silverstein.



Re: Reversing Loop Controlers

Perry A Pollino
 

Tim I have used DCC specialties AR's in the past with success.
They will be used on my new layout as well. (since I have them)
I will be suing Frog juicers for my turnouts. Frog juicers were not around when I started with DCC specialties product. I have read  the Dual frog and Hex frog cancan be used as AR's. I have no experience with them.
Perry

On Wednesday, January 2, 2019, 12:51:10 PM CST, Timothy Holmes <taholmes160@...> wrote:


HI Folks:

Due to my layout design, I will end up with 3 reversing loops -- 2 are
currently in existence, and right now I am using DPDT toggle switches
to control them -- they work, but ANNOYING.  I know there are
automatic units out there from many manufacturers.  Im not asking
whats out there, I am asking for RECOMMENDATIONS as to which ones you
like and think work best.

I am running N scale, hopefully eventually 2 - 3 trains at a time,
some with 2 -3 locomotives at a time, I am currently using a NCE
Powercab, which I hope to upgrade to an SB5 soon and eventually radio
control

Thanks for your input

TIM
San Luis and Rio Grande



Re: Reversing Loop Controlers

 

A potentially cheaper way to do this is to use a 3PDT toggle switch to control a turnout motor and the phase of the reversing loop.  This assumes that there is only one way into and out of the reversing loop.

Best,
Ken Harstine

Re: Reversing Loop Controlers

Ric Zimmerman
 

I agree with Perry.  The PSX-ARs not only reverse the polarity, but also can provide automatic turnout control on a reverse loop, preventing derailing if running through a switch.

RicZ

Re: Reversing Loop Controlers

Dale Gloer
 

Perry,

we are using Dual and Hex Frog Juicers for auto reversing on our club layout and they have been flawless in operation.  We also use a DCC Specialties Hare to automate the switch at the loop entrance which also works very well.  You can set it up to always enter in the same direction or enter in the last exit direction.

Dale Gloer
Layout Supervisor, Southern Alberta Model Railway Club

Re: Reversing Loop Controlers

Mark Gurries
 

The also include a DCC circuit breaker function unlike all the other Autoreversing devices available.  So it can not only take care of both reverse polarity problem but also any shorts that occurs inside the reversing section of track.  If you reversing section is a simple reverse loop, then the DCC circuit breaker function has limited value.  But if the reversing section involves something like a stub yard of one end of a wye, then is great solution.

It will also be address the reverse polarity problem much faster than any relay based solution.  That translates into less engine speed hesitation at the insulated joiner track joint if not eliminating it completely.  It will also show up in the headlight of a engine if the engines does not have any stay alive capacitors.  Any headlight blinking will likewise be minimize if not eliminated too.  In practice you often get flawless crossings unless there is something wrong with the layout wiring.


On Jan 3, 2019, at 6:53 AM, Ric Zimmerman <zimmermane@...> wrote:

I agree with Perry.  The PSX-ARs not only reverse the polarity, but also can provide automatic turnout control on a reverse loop, preventing derailing if running through a switch.

RicZ

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Re: Reversing Loop Controlers

Greg Elmassian
 

Ditto on what Mark says, have been using them for years, and I have exactly what he describes, a wye off the main line that feeds a yard.

https://elmassian.com/images/stories/misc_train/layouts/greg/switchyard/moved/20181001_173021.jpg

New to DCC

Jeff Nielsen
 

I’m new to DCC and need all the help I can get....

Thanks!

Re: New to DCC

Paul O
 

OK Jeff, start asking.

Re: New to DCC

Mark Cartwright
 

Jeff, 
For many of us it's a combination of Musical Chairs and a Journey into the unknown.
Which exact DCC Controller along with it's various components (Mostly Decoder - Sound and Non Sound) you will land on ?
May depend on when the music stops....as in what your local train store pushes on you.
Or which Bible on DCC is being read at your local Model Railroading Society/Club.
====
In my Journey, With purchasing only second-hand units via Wannabe and Discontinued Layouts; I have purchased nearly a dozen different DCC Controllers and well over one hundred Decoders via many various locomotives in N and HO Scales. (These purchases often near 10 cents to the MSRP $ reflected the many Train Store Shelves of Northern California.)
Oops!
I went off on tangents Testing various Decoders with different DCC Controllers and even began a Notebook. I nearly lost it, as I was considered creating an Encyclopedia on just the Interactions of DCC.
Double Oops!
=====
I eventually Forest Gumped my way in the ownership of an ESU ECoS, for which; I am very pleased.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApxjEciFr40
=====
Before the ECoS Discovery and then some even after that moment in time of Epiphany ! - 
I was nearly a prisoner to my own layout....and had lost sight on why I chose to create a layout in the first place.
For it comes down to Scenery...
When will  I ever set my first Tree ? and seriously begin to enjoy just watching my trains !!!!
(The phase just after making your track operational.)
So much more to learn...I told myself.
Can't I just learn to program, have the program hold and be done with DCC?
Good Luck with a that ! at least not on a Paragon Decoder...
Result? Good Bye Paragon Decoders.
I even questioned the amperage and volts being sent to my track.
I spent far too much time on DCC ...
Just one example....
My First DCC Controller though very simple to program and operate only has a range of say 20 feet and won't catch a signal, through the Long Bearing Wall which goes down the center of my basement....I fought it's limitations for too long...
Dis -Track -Ting me from my original intentions.
Then I discovered Long Steam Locomotives which have their own set of parameters and needs...
More wasted time, as I was trying to get them to operate on curves of 19" or less in radius and over #6 Switches.
Then it was on to switches...and how do I get the front pilot and the rear wheels of the tender to all align in DCC +/- as I go over Turnouts.
Simple...
Make them longer; along actual ARA specifications and solder near on everything with it's own drop down leads.
==============================================
I am not trying to dissuade you, in fact on the contrary....
Just tell us your overall dimensions of your intended layout, location (Corner of Den, Family Room, Attic, Basement but just say No to a Garage Location in the Central Valley of California - Dust), scale, type of locomotive, length of train, and whither you ever intend to include sound on your layout.
We can then begin this discussion again; which might resemble a Religious/Political Argument.
:)) Mark

PS and note this well...
A Clean Well Lighted Place....
I strongly suggest a location for your layout which is basically clean and can be kept that way.
DCC abhors dirty track (especially sound); and you might want to rethink even the % of your grades along with the use of Traction Tires.

Re: New to DCC

Glenn
 

Jeff,

Like Mark, I bounced around DCC.

My first purchase was a box of an antique MRC Command 2000 stuff. I like it still, unfortunately it was not compatible with modern-er decoders.

Then I acquired a Bachmann EZ Command system which I still use at the workbench.

I do a lot of decoder installs for friends and eventually purchased a used NCE power cab (tethered), as you can do more with that system than the others.

I recently purchased a Ring Engineering RailPro system. It is basically radio control. It makes it easy to visit other layouts since I do not need to reprogram decoders.

My recommendation is try to operate AND program, set CV's, etc, on several systems/layouts. Also read the manuals. Some are so vague. I read one that seemed to think you are a expert on DCC. On one system I tried, programming was done in sequential steps, but you could only do one step at a time and stop, you could not make more than one change at a time. The manual did not mention that.

See what is in stock in your area. It's frustrating when you need a part for brand ABC, and your LHS does not stock that brand. But if you really like one system go with that one.

Glenn

Re: New to DCC

Mark Gurries
 

I have a series of DCC presentations that I have given around the country over the years at NMRA events.  There are 4 clinics at the bottom.  Basic DCC info, Wiring, Decoder Wiring and Decoder Programming.



On Jan 13, 2019, at 9:17 AM, Jeff Nielsen <jln319@...> wrote:

I’m new to DCC and need all the help I can get....

Thanks!

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Re: New to DCC

Jeff Nielsen
 

Thanks for all the great advice and information. I run G scale and my layout will be outside. I don't have it built yet as I moved a few years ago and everything is still in boxes. I'm ready to get it going again and have always wanted to try DCC. My layout will be pretty simple. Probably 10' X 20' with one main line and one or two sidings/branch runs but will expand it later. I'd like to run 2 or 3 trains for now. I haven't decided on DCC equipment yet. I've read about a lot of them. Massoth looks interesting to me but seems pricey. Since I'm still in the planning stages I thought this would be a good time to start exploring DCC but I'm finding there is a lot to learn. Thanks again for the advice and info. I will be looking at the presentations and continue researching but I have a feeling I will need to just jump in at some point...


On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 10:59 AM Mark Gurries <gurriesm@...> wrote:
I have a series of DCC presentations that I have given around the country over the years at NMRA events.  There are 4 clinics at the bottom.  Basic DCC info, Wiring, Decoder Wiring and Decoder Programming.



On Jan 13, 2019, at 9:17 AM, Jeff Nielsen <jln319@...> wrote:

I’m new to DCC and need all the help I can get....

Thanks!

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Re: New to DCC

wirefordcc
 

Jeff,

 

Check out my website, WiringForDCC.com, and look for the section on DCC in the Garden.  http://www.wiringfordcc.com/garden.htm

 

 

Allan Gartner

Wiring For DCC

 

From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> On Behalf Of Jeff Nielsen
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 3:27 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] New to DCC

 

Thanks for all the great advice and information. I run G scale and my layout will be outside. I don't have it built yet as I moved a few years ago and everything is still in boxes. I'm ready to get it going again and have always wanted to try DCC. My layout will be pretty simple. Probably 10' X 20' with one main line and one or two sidings/branch runs but will expand it later. I'd like to run 2 or 3 trains for now. I haven't decided on DCC equipment yet. I've read about a lot of them. Massoth looks interesting to me but seems pricey. Since I'm still in the planning stages I thought this would be a good time to start exploring DCC but I'm finding there is a lot to learn. Thanks again for the advice and info. I will be looking at the presentations and continue researching but I have a feeling I will need to just jump in at some point...

 

On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 10:59 AM Mark Gurries <gurriesm@...> wrote:

I have a series of DCC presentations that I have given around the country over the years at NMRA events.  There are 4 clinics at the bottom.  Basic DCC info, Wiring, Decoder Wiring and Decoder Programming.

 

 

 

On Jan 13, 2019, at 9:17 AM, Jeff Nielsen <jln319@...> wrote:

 

I’m new to DCC and need all the help I can get....

 

Thanks!

 

Best Regards,

 

Mark Gurries

Electrical Engineer

DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com

 

 

 

Re: New to DCC

Glenn
 

I am going out on a tree limb, and Mark is at the trunk with a saw.

Since you are at ground level you might consider using radio control with battery power.

Check out:
AirWire 900 from CVP http://www.cvpusa.com/airwire_system.php  << they have been in business since 1974

There is also the Dead Rail Society  https://www.deadrailsociety.com/  << Very informative.

Glenn



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Nielsen
Sent: Jan 14, 2019 3:26 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] New to DCC

Thanks for all the great advice and information. I run G scale and my layout will be outside. I don't have it built yet as I moved a few years ago and everything is still in boxes. I'm ready to get it going again and have always wanted to try DCC. My layout will be pretty simple. Probably 10' X 20' with one main line and one or two sidings/branch runs but will expand it later. I'd like to run 2 or 3 trains for now. I haven't decided on DCC equipment yet. I've read about a lot of them. Massoth looks interesting to me but seems pricey. Since I'm still in the planning stages I thought this would be a good time to start exploring DCC but I'm finding there is a lot to learn. Thanks again for the advice and info. I will be looking at the presentations and continue researching but I have a feeling I will need to just jump in at some point...

On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 10:59 AM Mark Gurries <gurriesm@...> wrote:
I have a series of DCC presentations that I have given around the country over the years at NMRA events.  There are 4 clinics at the bottom.  Basic DCC info, Wiring, Decoder Wiring and Decoder Programming.



On Jan 13, 2019, at 9:17 AM, Jeff Nielsen <jln319@...> wrote:

I’m new to DCC and need all the help I can get....

Thanks!

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Re: New to DCC

Jeff Nielsen
 

Thanks. I hadn’t considered it. I will take a look.

On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 16:27 Glenn <ghazel@...> wrote:
I am going out on a tree limb, and Mark is at the trunk with a saw.

Since you are at ground level you might consider using radio control with battery power.

Check out:
AirWire 900 from CVP http://www.cvpusa.com/airwire_system.php  << they have been in business since 1974

There is also the Dead Rail Society  https://www.deadrailsociety.com/  << Very informative.

Glenn



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Nielsen
Sent: Jan 14, 2019 3:26 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] New to DCC

Thanks for all the great advice and information. I run G scale and my layout will be outside. I don't have it built yet as I moved a few years ago and everything is still in boxes. I'm ready to get it going again and have always wanted to try DCC. My layout will be pretty simple. Probably 10' X 20' with one main line and one or two sidings/branch runs but will expand it later. I'd like to run 2 or 3 trains for now. I haven't decided on DCC equipment yet. I've read about a lot of them. Massoth looks interesting to me but seems pricey. Since I'm still in the planning stages I thought this would be a good time to start exploring DCC but I'm finding there is a lot to learn. Thanks again for the advice and info. I will be looking at the presentations and continue researching but I have a feeling I will need to just jump in at some point...

On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 10:59 AM Mark Gurries <gurriesm@...> wrote:
I have a series of DCC presentations that I have given around the country over the years at NMRA events.  There are 4 clinics at the bottom.  Basic DCC info, Wiring, Decoder Wiring and Decoder Programming.



On Jan 13, 2019, at 9:17 AM, Jeff Nielsen <jln319@...> wrote:

I’m new to DCC and need all the help I can get....

Thanks!

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com



Re: New to DCC

Greg Elmassian
 

DCC works great outdoors too, very happy with it, and saved a lot of money over battery. www.elmassian.com

Re: New to DCC

whmvd
 

Hi Jeff,

Massoth has had good reviews here and there. For me, the deal breaker was that it is not a system that is supported by JMRI. If you plan to add a computer in the mix, cutting off that avenue before you even start seems a pity. Although JMRI is much used for train control, it is even more widely present (and as far as I know unparallelled) for decoder programming.

Most important of all: have fun!
Wouter


On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 at 22:07, wirefordcc <bigboy@...> wrote:

Jeff,

 

Check out my website, WiringForDCC.com, and look for the section on DCC in the Garden.  http://www.wiringfordcc.com/garden.htm

 

 

Allan Gartner

Wiring For DCC

 

From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> On Behalf Of Jeff Nielsen
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 3:27 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] New to DCC

 

Thanks for all the great advice and information. I run G scale and my layout will be outside. I don't have it built yet as I moved a few years ago and everything is still in boxes. I'm ready to get it going again and have always wanted to try DCC. My layout will be pretty simple. Probably 10' X 20' with one main line and one or two sidings/branch runs but will expand it later. I'd like to run 2 or 3 trains for now. I haven't decided on DCC equipment yet. I've read about a lot of them. Massoth looks interesting to me but seems pricey. Since I'm still in the planning stages I thought this would be a good time to start exploring DCC but I'm finding there is a lot to learn. Thanks again for the advice and info. I will be looking at the presentations and continue researching but I have a feeling I will need to just jump in at some point...

 

On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 10:59 AM Mark Gurries <gurriesm@...> wrote:

I have a series of DCC presentations that I have given around the country over the years at NMRA events.  There are 4 clinics at the bottom.  Basic DCC info, Wiring, Decoder Wiring and Decoder Programming.

 

 

 

On Jan 13, 2019, at 9:17 AM, Jeff Nielsen <jln319@...> wrote:

 

I’m new to DCC and need all the help I can get....

 

Thanks!

 

Best Regards,

 

Mark Gurries

Electrical Engineer

DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com