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Re : w4dccqa@groups.io Digest #71

CS_listes
 

Bonjour,
Configuration variable CV 7 contains the version number of the decoder.
  In Europe some manufacturers give additional information in another variable.
Have a good day in digital.
Charles_2_Bordeaux.
 
Excerpt from the SoundTraxx manual.
“Primary CVs
Tsunami2 Diesel Technical Reference 12
CV 7: Manufacturer Version (Read-Only)
Description
CV 7 contains the 8-bit software version identifier. CV 7 is read-only and cannot be modified”
 
Bonjour,
La variable de configuration CV 7 contient le numéro de la version du décodeur.
 En Europe certains fabricants donnent un complément d’information dans une autre variable.
Bonne journée en numérique.
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1.		 Help identifying decoder
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1a. 
Help identifying decoder
From: Nick Ostrosky
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 15:15:56 PST

This isn't strictly a wiring question but I'm hoping for some help/direction.  I have a Stewart Hobbies F7 equipped with a Soundtraxx decoder.  Being new to JMRI I am trying to add it to my roster but I don't know the specific model of the decoder.  What I do know:

  • The board itself says Sountraxx (no other identifying marks I can see).
  • A card in the box says Tsunami EMD 567
  • My NCE cab says it's manufacturer 141, version 064 which I can't find in any Soundtraxx on-line documentation (including the OEM section for Bowser/Stewart). 


The JMRI "read decoder" brings it back as something completely different than Soundtraxx.  I have a photo but don't seem to have the permissions necessary to upload it here.

Any suggestions?  Thanks!
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Re: Help identifying decoder
From: redking56@...
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 15:27:02 PST

The NMRA Manufacturer ID list shows 141 as "Throttle-Up (Soundtraxx)".

Rich
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Re: Help identifying decoder

Greg Williams <gregw66@...>
 

If it is a factory installed decoder, Soundtraxx has a spot on its website about factory installed decoders. Find it at:

https://www.soundtraxx.com/factory/index.php

Greg Williams
Re: Help identifying decoder

Gary Chudzinski
 

>Nick Ostrosky writes:  My NCE cab says it's manufacturer 141, version 064 which I can't find in any Soundtraxx on-line 



Nick,  Your decoder is a Soundtraxx Tsunami (not ECO or Tsunami2)

Below is the Soundtraxx reference to CV7.  CV8 = 141 for Soundtraxx.

https://www.soundtraxx.com/manuals/productID.pdf

Gary Chudzinski
Re: Help identifying decoder

Nick Ostrosky
 

Thank you all for your tips.  Another user pointed me to the JMRI website http://jmri.org/xml/XSLT/pages/DecoderId.html which has helped me narrow the field considerably.  Not the easiest thing to find on the JMRI site so I have bookmarked it for future use.

 
Re: Help identifying decoder

towboatjohnston@...
 

Nick,
You may want to download Decoder Pro from the same website. I had similar identity problems with a factory installed decoder that was different from the accompanying information, and also had an odd manufacturer ID. Once I figured out that it was made by Soundtraxx, I was able to experiment with the list of available setups and find one (Tsunami) that worked beautifully for my loco. Decoder Pro is a lifesaver. 

John Johnston

On Nov 14, 2018, at 6:31 AM, Nick Ostrosky <nick79ostr@...> wrote:

Thank you all for your tips.  Another user pointed me to the JMRI website http://jmri.org/xml/XSLT/pages/DecoderId.html which has helped me narrow the field considerably.  Not the easiest thing to find on the JMRI site so I have bookmarked it for future use.

 
Re: Help identifying decoder

Nick Ostrosky
 

I am working with Decoder Pro, that’s what was giving me strange readings on the board.  That said, even with the “read from decoder” I was presented dozens of options, so I was looking for a way to narrow down the choices and was able to do so with the JMRI list.

 

A final thank you to everyone that provided input on my question.
Current Protection

Lindsay Hughes
 

Greetings

 

I am wiring a power system for my layout.  I am using a 15V 7A power supply to provide switchmode open frame power supply to provide 13.5V nominal DC power around the layout, as well as for a Digitrax DCS 240 controller.

My question is this: should I fuse the power input to the DCS-240?  I'm thinking I probably should, but I'm looking for confirmation...

Many thanks!
Re: Current Protection

David McBrayer
 

YES!, you should fuse the input to the power supply.  Don’t forget to account the startup surge. 

Dave McBrayer
Castro Valley, CA 


On Nov 19, 2018, at 18:44, Lindsay Hughes
I am using a 15V 7A power supply to provide switchmode open frame power supply to provide 13.5V nominal DC power around the layout, as well as for a Digitrax DCS 240 controller.

My question is this: should I fuse the power input to the DCS-240?  

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Re: Current Protection

wirefordcc
 

I want to add some clarification to this topic.  The question was whether the power input to the DCS 240 should be fused and the answer was that the input to the power supply should be fused. 

 

Yes, it is a good idea to fuse the input to the DCS 240.  The DCS 240 is a 3/5/8 amp command station/booster.  The power supply that Lindsay intends to use is a 7A supply.  So do not use the DCS240 in the 8A mode.  Use it in the 5A mode.  If in the 8A mode, the 7A supply will never be able to source enough power for the DCS 240’s internal current protection to shut it down.  A fuse on the input of the DCS 240 should be about 6A or a 5A slo-blo fuse can be used to allow the DCS 240 to do it’s thing and not require you to change the fuse 4 times during an operating session.

 

It is also a good idea to fuse the input of the power supply on the 120V AC side.  Be aware that if it is a 7A, 13.5VDC power supply on the output, the maximum input current to the supply will be less than an amp.  So using a 2A fast-blo or a  1.5A slo-blo  would be appropriate on the 120V AC side.

 

Allan Gartner  WiringForDCC.com 

        

 
Re: Current Protection

Don Vollrath
 

Good advice Allan.
DonV
Re: Current Protection

Charles Brumbelow
 

I have seen these recommended and even used inside Lionel ZW and KW transformers. Variable current ratings available. Charles

US Stock 10pcs 6A 30V PPTC PolySwitch Resettable Fuse Electronics, Cars, Fashion, Collectibles, Coupons and More | eBay







On Wednesday, November 21, 2018, 9:17 AM, Don Vollrath <donevol43@...> wrote:

Good advice Allan.
DonV
Re: Current Protection

Carl
 

Hi Gang:

I've added these to my ZW. Much more protection than the breaker on the common wire.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/toytrains/photos/photostream/lightbox/1508970439?orderBy=mtime&sortOrder=desc&photoFilter=ALL#zax/1508970439

Good luck, Carl.


On 11/21/2018 12:07 PM, Charles Brumbelow via Groups.Io wrote:
I have seen these recommended and even used inside Lionel ZW and KW transformers. Variable current ratings available. Charles

US Stock 10pcs 6A 30V PPTC PolySwitch Resettable Fuse Electronics, Cars, Fashion, Collectibles, Coupons and More | eBay







On Wednesday, November 21, 2018, 9:17 AM, Don Vollrath <donevol43@...> wrote:

Good advice Allan.
DonV


Virus-free. www.avast.com

Re: Current Protection

Ken Harstine
 

You could also purchase my product and be able to fine tune the current setting:

http://voltscooter.com/?page_id=134

The maximum setting of my product is lower then the 6 Ampere one mentioned previously.  (the trip level of which is actually 12 Amperes).  My product is suitable for any AC circuit under 30V and will also work with DC however the wiring may need to be adjusted to make the indicator light as it has a polarity.

When using a PolySwitch type fuse you need to be aware of both the maximum voltage and the maximum current.  The maximum voltage is easy enough. 

The input voltage to the fuse should not exceed that number.  In the instance mentioned that is 30V and is just fine for Model Railroad secondary voltages but not for the primary voltages on the AC side.

Maximum current is a little harder.  Essentially the source should not be able to exceed the maximum current rating of the fuse.  I was unable to fully trace the one linked in the previous message but the maximum current of similar fuses is 40Ampere so this is certainly large enough for the purpose.
Jmri interface

vincent marino
 

Question. If I wind the interface wire around a 110 extension cord will the dcc signal be affected by the 110 current? 
Re: Jmri interface

Mark Gurries
 

Not sure what you mean by interface wire.

There are 3 classes or wires found in a layout.

1) Low Voltage Control/Communication Cables

2) Low voltage DCC Track or DC/AC cables that distribute layout power.

3)  High Voltage 120V/220V AC power cables.

In general it is bad to mix Class 1 with Class 2.  There is no hazardous power involved.  The only problem with mixing them is noise and communication problems.

You can bundle Class 1 cables in a loose group of its own and you can bundle Class 2 cable in a loose group of its own..

You cannot bundle a Class 3 cable with Class 2 or a Class 3.  When it comes to high voltage AC outlet power, I would not wrap it that cable with anything else.   The AC cable is a hazardous cable and should be protected from accidental contact with tools or anything else that one might use in wiring up a layout.  It should be run all by itself away from all other cables and given some mechanical protection thoughts as to its installation.


On Nov 22, 2018, at 11:12 AM, vincent marino <vmarino2009@...> wrote:

Question. If I wind the interface wire around a 110 extension cord will the dcc signal be affected by the 110 current? 

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com
Re: Jmri interface

General
 

Sounds to me like he is talking about the JRMI interface wire!


On 11/22/2018 9:34 PM, Mark Gurries wrote:
Not sure what you mean by interface wire.

There are 3 classes or wires found in a layout.

1) Low Voltage Control/Communication Cables

2) Low voltage DCC Track or DC/AC cables that distribute layout power.

3)  High Voltage 120V/220V AC power cables.

In general it is bad to mix Class 1 with Class 2.  There is no hazardous power involved.  The only problem with mixing them is noise and communication problems.

You can bundle Class 1 cables in a loose group of its own and you can bundle Class 2 cable in a loose group of its own..

You cannot bundle a Class 3 cable with Class 2 or a Class 3.  When it comes to high voltage AC outlet power, I would not wrap it that cable with anything else.   The AC cable is a hazardous cable and should be protected from accidental contact with tools or anything else that one might use in wiring up a layout.  It should be run all by itself away from all other cables and given some mechanical protection thoughts as to its installation.


On Nov 22, 2018, at 11:12 AM, vincent marino <vmarino2009@...> wrote:

Question. If I wind the interface wire around a 110 extension cord will the dcc signal be affected by the 110 current? 

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com
Re: Jmri interface

vincent marino
 

I have a nce / jmri interface. The laptop USB cord to the interface circles around a 110 extension cord about 4 times in a 4' distance.  I'm wondering if the computer signal to the interface will be affected by the 110 current? 


On Fri, Nov 23, 2018, 9:44 AM General <aj81504@... wrote:

Sounds to me like he is talking about the JRMI interface wire!


On 11/22/2018 9:34 PM, Mark Gurries wrote:
Not sure what you mean by interface wire.

There are 3 classes or wires found in a layout.

1) Low Voltage Control/Communication Cables

2) Low voltage DCC Track or DC/AC cables that distribute layout power.

3)  High Voltage 120V/220V AC power cables.

In general it is bad to mix Class 1 with Class 2.  There is no hazardous power involved.  The only problem with mixing them is noise and communication problems.

You can bundle Class 1 cables in a loose group of its own and you can bundle Class 2 cable in a loose group of its own..

You cannot bundle a Class 3 cable with Class 2 or a Class 3.  When it comes to high voltage AC outlet power, I would not wrap it that cable with anything else.   The AC cable is a hazardous cable and should be protected from accidental contact with tools or anything else that one might use in wiring up a layout.  It should be run all by itself away from all other cables and given some mechanical protection thoughts as to its installation.


On Nov 22, 2018, at 11:12 AM, vincent marino <vmarino2009@...> wrote:

Question. If I wind the interface wire around a 110 extension cord will the dcc signal be affected by the 110 current? 

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com
Re: Jmri interface

Ken Harstine
 

If you are using double insulated line cord designed for 110V then you don't have a safety issue.  The cable is safe in all circumstances.  The primary source of any noise that might have an effect on low level signals is actually coming from your DCC components.  If your system is legally compliant with FCC rules then there will not be anything on the AC wires that will mess with your low level signals (this may not be the case because enforcement is rare).   The ability of the AC signals to impart interference onto the low level signals is a function of proximity, how long the wires are in close proximity and whether the fields of the wires are aligned.  This is the reason that twisted wire is recommended and used CAT5 and other internet wires.  When you twist the wire the effect of alignment and proximity is essentially eliminated.

Your DCC track wiring is actually vastly more likely to effect adjacent low level signal wires than anything else.  This is because the track wiring is higher frequency, carrying significant currents and consists of more or less square wave signals.  The frequency content of a square wave is many times higher then the basic frequency of the signal.  The higher the frequency and the greater the power the more likely it is to couple to nearby cables.  A clean 60Hz signal won't get very far.   The audio noise we associate with 60Hz power is generally because of the fluorescent light fixtures connected to it.  The fluorescent load can broadcast high frequency noise that occurs at a 60Hz rate.  Hence we hear the 60Hz but not the much higher frequency noise that is broadcasting it into the air.

I hope I have kept the simple and concise enough to be understandable.  The mechanisms involved are very complex and are not at all easy to predict.  Small changes in the configuration of cables can have huge effects.

Ken Harstine
BSEE with 40 years of experience in various aspects of electronics including technician work early in my career and significant experience in getting new systems to comply with with FCC rules.
QSI Connectors

Eric
 

Help!   I am trying to install a GSI sound decoder, originally installed in a DC Porto 2000 RS-27.  This decoder has JST-type mini plugs to attach the power, motor, and lights, as well as the speakers.  There are four female plug connection on the decoder board, two 2-pin, and one each 4-pin and 6-pin.  Can any one familiar with this system tell me what the sizes and type of the required male connectors/plugs are?

I have been to Digi-Key, but they have about 20,000 connectors and without the proper terminology I cannot order some without guessing.  Any help,is greatly appreciated.

RicZ
Re: Programming track "short" message on NCE Powercab

Greg Elmassian
 

So the full manual (not the quick start) talks about a programming track, how to isolate it from the main layout with a switch, and in several places encourages you to use the program track.

It also indicates that if you have problems you could be drawing excessive current, or have lights on, etc.

So, while it does not explicitly say "don't use the whole layout for a programming track" it does encourage you to have a separate programming track.

Just makes sense that if you try to use the whole layout, it's easy to leave some other loads on it... in my case, I had DCC switch controllers from Tam Valley, and have to cut them out when in program track mode.

Greg