Date   
Re: Dead track area dcc

Ron Still
 

Agree with Mike, had this exact problem with Atlas crossing. Drove me crazy till I figured it out!


On Jun 25, 2018, at 10:09 AM, emrldsky <azMikeG@...> wrote:

There is probably a good electrical connection to the track, so it is not that.. Very probably there is a "slight" dip in one or both tracks, so one or more wheels is actually not touching the track. I have run into this a few times. Hold a long straight edge on each rail, individually and look for a gap between the rail and the straight edge.

Peace,
Mike G.

Re: How to wire a large garden extension layout

whmvd
 

I was foolish enough to have a gently sweeping curve with a bit of camber. Possibly the biggest mistake I ever made - not even an LGB crocodile could get through... It looked spectacularly natural, but I had to go back to an ordinary flat curve because of contact problems.

Wouter

On 25 June 2018 at 19:20, wirefordcc <bigboy@...> wrote:
Hi Kim,

My website has a table of wire sizes that are appropriate for each scale.  You can find the table for bus wires at:

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track_2.htm#a26

For feeders, use this table:

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track_2.htm#a14

For general information on DCC in the garden, check out this page based on my garden railroad:

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/garden.htm

Soldering to G-scale track takes a lot of heat.  If you can find clamps that will clamp your wires to your track, you may want to use those.  Be sure your track is clean where you intend to clamp it.

Putting boosters in your garden can be done, but keeping the water out of them can be difficult.  So if you can, locate your boosters close to the garden.  Twist your wires and use snubbers at the ends of your runs.

I've not used NCE equipment in the garden, so I'll leave the recommendations as to what equipment should be used to those with the experience. (I plan to use NCE equipment in my next garden railway, but that may be a few years off.)

Allan Gartner
Wiring For DCC


Re: Dead track area dcc

Gary Chudzinski
 


IMHO, I would never depend on rail joiners for electrical conductivity.  I solder power drops every six feet, in the middle of two three foot sections of flex track soldered together using #18 solid wire (for Code 100 rail) on the outside of the rails. Could also use rail joiners, however, if the joint ever needs to be separated, it's a major unsoldering job! One has to be particularly aware there is power to the turnout's short sections of track exiting an isolated frog. I have yet to have any track power problems using these procedures.

Gary Chudzinki

Re: Dead track area dcc

Brad Ketchen <bketchen@...>
 

Gary.. I'd actually suggest feeders at every 3 foot section of track. And for turnouts..I have no problem with Micro Engineering turnouts...and I run DCC/DC with a DPDT switch. 

cheers,
Brad

On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 10:19 AM, Gary Chudzinski <chudgr@...> wrote:

IMHO, I would never depend on rail joiners for electrical conductivity.  I solder power drops every six feet, in the middle of two three foot sections of flex track soldered together using #18 solid wire (for Code 100 rail) on the outside of the rails. Could also use rail joiners, however, if the joint ever needs to be separated, it's a major unsoldering job! One has to be particularly aware there is power to the turnout's short sections of track exiting an isolated frog. I have yet to have any track power problems using these procedures.

Gary Chudzinki


Re: Dead track area dcc

Jim Gray <n747jg@...>
 

Just a bit off of the subject, but I am just completing the wiring of a 30' x 20' HOn3 layout using Micro Engineering flex track and turnouts. NCE power for DCC with PSX cbs and PSX-AR auto reversers for loops. Everything is running pretty well, but on occasion my Blackstone locomotives will stall on a random turnout, especially when moving slowly. And often will start moving again on their own after a brief stall. I don’t think it’s a short even though it acts like it might be. Frog polarity is correct, in conjunction with the tortoise, and works fine 95% of the time.

Any ideas what my issue might be? Or is this just the nature of the beast?

Thanks!

Jim Gray
Denver, CO

Re: Dead track area dcc

Don Vollrath
 

Jim, If other equipment stays energized it is not a short circuit but an open one. Turn on the headlight and make it crawl through in either orientation or direction. If the light goes off, you lost power to the loco. Look for a poor or intermittent electrical connection to the movable point rails as the loco rolls through. Look also for a vertical bump that lifts the loco wheels off the rails.

DonV  

Re: Dead track area dcc

Glenn
 

We experience a similar problem on a friends 25-year old layout. The layout was built with Atlas and later with some Shinohara turnouts. DCC was employed a few years after. Because the layout was built as DC all four rails on the frog side of the turnouts have insulated joiners.

There are two NCE EB3's involved, however neither indicated a short. Testing with a meter is almost impossible as the engine restarts before a meter can be used.

The problem happens mostly with 6-axle diesels and one or two 8-coupled steam engines. Four turnouts act up. Three are Atlas, but only one turnout in a Shinohara double crossover. Engines stall on the turnout then restart most often without human assistance.

The diesels are mostly DCC-ized Athearn 6-axle engines. But not all have the problem. The steamers are Broadway Limited 4-axle. Before I put the decoders in, the diesels sat on the shelf for at least ten years. I used NCE basic decoders. The original motors were left in.

Of course the problem never occurs when you are eyeballing the site.

Oddly enough, I had put a decoder into an old Penn-line 4-wheel Plymouth diesel, it has no problems navigating the turnouts.

Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Gray <@747>
Sent: Jun 27, 2018 9:43 AM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Dead track area dcc
Everything is running pretty well, but on occasion my Blackstone locomotives will stall on a random turnout, especially when moving slowly. And often will start moving again on their own after a brief stall. I don’t think it’s a short even though it acts like it might be.

Re: Dead track area dcc

Brad Ketchen <bketchen@...>
 

Jim.. have you tried cleaning the track? I have a bright boy at the ready... could be something as simple as that! Just a suggestion.

Brad

On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 9:43 AM, Jim Gray <n747jg@...> wrote:
Just a bit off of the subject, but I am just completing the wiring of a 30' x 20' HOn3 layout using Micro Engineering flex track and turnouts.   NCE power for DCC with PSX cbs and PSX-AR auto reversers for loops.    Everything is running pretty well, but on occasion my Blackstone locomotives will stall on a random turnout, especially when moving slowly.  And often will start moving again on their own after a brief stall.  I don’t think it’s a short even though it acts like it might be.   Frog polarity is correct, in conjunction with the tortoise, and works fine 95% of the time. 

Any ideas what my issue might be?  Or is this just the nature of the beast? 

Thanks!

Jim Gray
Denver, CO










Re: Dead track area dcc

Brad Ketchen <bketchen@...>
 

btw.. my system is NCE Power cab too. I've replaced all my old Shinohara turnouts and the newer Atlas as the points are too loose...I like to hand throw them as I have a switching layout. Lance Mindheim has a lot of knowledge about that. www.lancemindheim.com

Brad

On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 2:31 PM, Brad Ketchen <bketchen@...> wrote:
Jim.. have you tried cleaning the track? I have a bright boy at the ready... could be something as simple as that! Just a suggestion.

Brad

On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 9:43 AM, Jim Gray <n747jg@...> wrote:
Just a bit off of the subject, but I am just completing the wiring of a 30' x 20' HOn3 layout using Micro Engineering flex track and turnouts.   NCE power for DCC with PSX cbs and PSX-AR auto reversers for loops.    Everything is running pretty well, but on occasion my Blackstone locomotives will stall on a random turnout, especially when moving slowly.  And often will start moving again on their own after a brief stall.  I don’t think it’s a short even though it acts like it might be.   Frog polarity is correct, in conjunction with the tortoise, and works fine 95% of the time. 

Any ideas what my issue might be?  Or is this just the nature of the beast? 

Thanks!

Jim Gray
Denver, CO











Re: Dead track area dcc

Puckdropper
 

If you drop feeders at the end of each track, you can skip every other joint and wind up with feeders every 6' while still following the "one per piece of rail" rule. This gives you another advantage in that the bus only needs to be stripped once to solder on two feeders.

Being the peculiar lazy sort that I am, I just dropped feeders on either side of every rail joiner and attached them to the bus. More physical effort for less memory effort. It doesn't really take all that long to do the extra feeders.

Another trick: Leave the feeders above the layout until you're ready to wire them. Using 22-26 gauge wire, you can loop the wire into the hole but not pull it all the way down yet. After you wire it to the bus, give it a gentle pull and the feeder will pull into the hole. Your eyes are better at seeing feeders above the track than they are seeing them below!

Puckdropper

On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 06:09 am, Brad Ketchen wrote:


Gary.. I'd actually suggest feeders at every 3 foot section of track. And
for turnouts..I have no problem with Micro Engineering turnouts...and I run
DCC/DC with a DPDT switch.

cheers,
Brad

On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 10:19 AM, Gary Chudzinski <chudgr@...> wrote:


IMHO, I would never depend on rail joiners for electrical conductivity. I
solder power drops every six feet, in the middle of two three foot sections
of flex track soldered together using #18 solid wire (for Code 100 rail) on
the outside of the rails. Could also use rail joiners, however, if the
joint ever needs to be separated, it's a major unsoldering job! One has to
be particularly aware there is power to the turnout's short sections of
track exiting an isolated frog. I have yet to have any track power problems
using these procedures.

Gary Chudzinki

Re: Dead track area dcc

Bill Wilken
 

I’ve found 3M “suitcase” connectors make the job even easier. No need to solder anything underneath benchwork. Similarly, if you tin the track end of the jumper, soldering it to the rail is quick, easy, and clean

On Jun 28, 2018, at 5:06 PM, Puckdropper via Groups.Io <puckdropper=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

If you drop feeders at the end of each track, you can skip every other joint and wind up with feeders every 6' while still following the "one per piece of rail" rule. This gives you another advantage in that the bus only needs to be stripped once to solder on two feeders.

Being the peculiar lazy sort that I am, I just dropped feeders on either side of every rail joiner and attached them to the bus. More physical effort for less memory effort. It doesn't really take all that long to do the extra feeders.

Another trick: Leave the feeders above the layout until you're ready to wire them. Using 22-26 gauge wire, you can loop the wire into the hole but not pull it all the way down yet. After you wire it to the bus, give it a gentle pull and the feeder will pull into the hole. Your eyes are better at seeing feeders above the track than they are seeing them below!

Puckdropper


On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 06:09 am, Brad Ketchen wrote:


Gary.. I'd actually suggest feeders at every 3 foot section of track. And
for turnouts..I have no problem with Micro Engineering turnouts...and I run
DCC/DC with a DPDT switch.

cheers,
Brad

On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 10:19 AM, Gary Chudzinski <chudgr@...> wrote:


IMHO, I would never depend on rail joiners for electrical conductivity. I
solder power drops every six feet, in the middle of two three foot sections
of flex track soldered together using #18 solid wire (for Code 100 rail) on
the outside of the rails. Could also use rail joiners, however, if the
joint ever needs to be separated, it's a major unsoldering job! One has to
be particularly aware there is power to the turnout's short sections of
track exiting an isolated frog. I have yet to have any track power problems
using these procedures.

Gary Chudzinki

Re: Dead track area dcc

Gary Chudzinski
 


 Brad Ketchen writes:
>Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2018 06:09:18 PDT 

>Gary.. I'd actually suggest feeders at every 3 foot section of track.  And for turnouts..I have no problem with Micro Engineering turnouts...and I run DCC/DC with a DPDT switch.  Brad,

Brad,

I do use feeders (drops) every 3 feet!  As I stated, I solder a feeder near the middle of every six foot track section, which is two 3 foot sections wire soldered together. I build and use Fast Tracks hand laid turnouts. I enjoy building them as part of the hobby and they have been trouble free.  ME doesn't make turnouts in standard S gauge.

Gary



Re: Dead track area dcc

 

I use 12 AWG solid core without the insulating jacket (in other words
ground bus wire).  I run a pair of these wires near my main line.  The
wires are held in place and apart from each other with low cost wire
clamps (Digi-Key RP317-ND, 6 cents each in quantity).  Now I can add
jumpers wherever necessary.  The suitcase connectors are also excellent
but add cost (Digi-Key 3M155963-ND , 20 cents each in quantity).  I also
highly recommend the suitcase tool if you go this route (Digi-Key
E-9Y-N, $30).  With this suitcase connectors you must use a bus wire
that is 18, 16 or 14 AWG and a feeder wire that is 18, 20 or 22 AWG. 
Using other gauge sizes will cause unreliability.

Best Regards,

Ken Harstine

Start new threads when changing topics

wirefordcc
 

All,

When changing topics, please start a new message thread.  More people are likely to read your message if an old topic has run its course.

Thank you

Allan Gartner
Wiring For DCC

Buss Wires

Tom Anderson
 

          I am starting the wiring of my new HO layout. I will have 4 power districts. My question is do I need to keep the bus wires separated or can they be run through the same cut out holes under the table?

 

          Additionally, can a bus pair be twisted together or should they be left separated?

 

          Thanks!

 

 

Tom Anderson

 

Business Information Systems, Inc.

P.O. Box 160396

Boiling Springs, SC  29316

 

(864) 621-8607

 


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Re: Buss Wires

vincent marino
 

I recently build a new ho layout with 6 power districts. Initially I was keeping the district bus wires separate and semi twisted. Toward the end I ran several districts in the same holes and barely twisted the wire. No apparent issues doing it either way. Good luck. 


On Fri, Jun 29, 2018, 6:01 PM Tom Anderson <tanderson@...> wrote:

          I am starting the wiring of my new HO layout. I will have 4 power districts. My question is do I need to keep the bus wires separated or can they be run through the same cut out holes under the table?

 

          Additionally, can a bus pair be twisted together or should they be left separated?

 

          Thanks!

 

bis_250x60

 

Tom Anderson

 

Business Information Systems, Inc.

P.O. Box 160396

Boiling Springs, SC  29316

 

(864) 621-8607

 


ExchangeDefender Message Security: Check Authenticity

Re: Buss Wires

wirefordcc
 

Twist each bus pair.  You can run the bus pairs through the same holes in your benchwork.

Allan

Re: Buss Wires

Jerry Michels
 

Tom,

The buss wires can be run through the same hole without a problem.  You can also twist them.  

Jerry Michels
Amarillo Railroad Museum

Re: Buss Wires what else is there

David Hartley <hartleycom@...>
 

All
To twist or not to twist, that is the question and I guess it's up to us as individuals to adopt a "Chubby Checker" approach like he did a number of summers ago or not. What I do know is that they are essential. 
The question I'd like to pose is " is there a long forgotten or unawareness of a CV which enhances performance of a DCC decoder equipped model train. 
Eg 
Bachman 31-659DS class 47 47001 BR Blue ( with sound) 
Is slower than 
Bachmann 31-660A class 47/4 4744 "UNIVERSITY OF NOTTINGHAM BR Blue Large Logo
Principle CVs 2,5,6,3,4 are the same.
 I have a NCE power cab which I got following a discussion at Hattons which I am very pleased with. I'm new to the hobby. 
I look forward to any comments 
Best David 
Twickenham 

 

On 30 Jun 2018, at 14:48, Jerry Michels <gjmichels53@...> wrote:

Tom,

The buss wires can be run through the same hole without a problem.  You can also twist them.  

Jerry Michels
Amarillo Railroad Museum

Re: Buss Wires what else is there

john
 

Twist Again, that is rich.
   Here is the deal, if you run wires in parallel what ever is on one will to some degree cross over. It is exactly the way a transformer works. If it is just AC or DC there is little lost. If on the other hand there is a high frequency signal on an AC or DC carrier, the signal could be increased, diminished or corrupted by a parallel circuit. 
   If you want stranded buss wire buy it to order from a Lowe's, Home Depot, or whoever you have locally. Have the wire the gage, the length, and your color choice rolled into the same coil. Mark the beginning of the coil and tie it in 3 or 4 places so it stays tight. At home drop the coil in a bucked and wrap a loose weight around your wires with a enough weight to keep the loops from flopping out of the bucket. When you pull your wires they will have a nice twist and they will actually pull easier and with less tangling.
   I won't start another argument about how stranded wire is better but it is.
john



On Sunday, July 1, 2018 6:08 PM, David Hartley via Groups.Io <hartleycom@...> wrote:


All
To twist or not to twist, that is the question and I guess it's up to us as individuals to adopt a "Chubby Checker" approach like he did a number of summers ago or not. What I do know is that they are essential. 
The question I'd like to pose is " is there a long forgotten or unawareness of a CV which enhances performance of a DCC decoder equipped model train. 
Eg 
Bachman 31-659DS class 47 47001 BR Blue ( with sound) 
Is slower than 
Bachmann 31-660A class 47/4 4744 "UNIVERSITY OF NOTTINGHAM BR Blue Large Logo
Principle CVs 2,5,6,3,4 are the same.
 I have a NCE power cab which I got following a discussion at Hattons which I am very pleased with. I'm new to the hobby. 
I look forward to any comments 
Best David 
Twickenham 

 

On 30 Jun 2018, at 14:48, Jerry Michels <gjmichels53@...> wrote:

Tom,

The buss wires can be run through the same hole without a problem.  You can also twist them.  

Jerry Michels
Amarillo Railroad Museum