Date   
Re: Dead track area dcc

Gregory Latiak
 

It is also worth considering the nature of the electrical contact between the pickup(s) and the track in that area. If your rolling stock has a single set of pickups it might be helpful to look very closely at how the wheels track over the area where there is poor conductivity. With my own screwups, mounting a camera at track level and capturing video while the rollingstock traversed the area can sometimes be very educational. And it never hurts to ensure that both the track and the wheels are clean as any crud will magnify other problems.

greg

Re: Dead track area dcc

Don Vollrath
 

As Mark G says... You have a high resistance connection to that particular section of track.
What does the voltmeter across the track say when a loco is stalled right there? Look for a poor electrical connection at a rail joiner to other powered track or a bropken solder joint in the wiring..

DonV

Re: Dead track area dcc

JerryG
 

I had a similar problem once, near the middle of a three-way turn out.  It seems that the rails were slightly wider than standard as they curved and sometimes engines lost power going through even though all my frogs were powered.  Spiking the rails into alignment solved the problem.

Jerry
________________________________________________
jerryg2003@...

Re: Dead track area dcc

emrldsky
 

There is probably a good electrical connection to the track, so it is not that.. Very probably there is a "slight" dip in one or both tracks, so one or more wheels is actually not touching the track. I have run into this a few times. Hold a long straight edge on each rail, individually and look for a gap between the rail and the straight edge.

Peace,
Mike G.

Re: Dead track area dcc = Get Physical

Glenn
 

I agree, you may have a bad connection that is not visible. A weak, oxidized contact can give a good meter reading since meters require very little current to operate. Motors require a lot more and a weak joint will not pass it.

Mechanically clean the rails by scraping or sanding. There maybe a coating or corrosion that the usual rail cleaners may not touch.

Try redoing the wire to rail connection if there is one. Unsolder it, clean the area including removing old solder, use additional flux if you can.

Try moving the rail joiners. use a little contact cleaner applied with a toothpick or such.

Solder/re-solder the rail joiners. If you need to, replace the joiners and solder.

Glenn





-----Original Message-----
From: Don Vollrath
Sent: Jun 24, 2018 5:18 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Dead track area dcc

As Mark G says... You have a high resistance connection to that particular section of track.
What does the voltmeter across the track say when a loco is stalled right there? Look for a poor electrical connection at a rail joiner to other powered track or a bropken solder joint in the wiring..

DonV

Re: Dead track area dcc

john
 

It could be track!  I have found a number of Rail Joiners that just don't make good contact. Although rare, it has happened. I have also discovered a number of cold solder joint connections on tracks. It happened more on Brass track than on Nickel Silver but I have them show up occasionally. It even happens inside soldered Rail Joiners too. 
Enjoy,
john


On Monday, June 25, 2018 12:09 PM, emrldsky <azMikeG@...> wrote:


There is probably a good electrical connection to the track, so it is not that.. Very probably there is a "slight" dip in one or both tracks, so one or more wheels is actually not touching the track. I have run into this a few times. Hold a long straight edge on each rail, individually and look for a gap between the rail and the straight edge.

Peace,
Mike G.


Re: How to wire a large garden extension layout

wirefordcc
 

Hi Kim,

My website has a table of wire sizes that are appropriate for each scale.  You can find the table for bus wires at:

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track_2.htm#a26

For feeders, use this table:

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track_2.htm#a14

For general information on DCC in the garden, check out this page based on my garden railroad:

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/garden.htm

Soldering to G-scale track takes a lot of heat.  If you can find clamps that will clamp your wires to your track, you may want to use those.  Be sure your track is clean where you intend to clamp it.

Putting boosters in your garden can be done, but keeping the water out of them can be difficult.  So if you can, locate your boosters close to the garden.  Twist your wires and use snubbers at the ends of your runs.

I've not used NCE equipment in the garden, so I'll leave the recommendations as to what equipment should be used to those with the experience. (I plan to use NCE equipment in my next garden railway, but that may be a few years off.)

Allan Gartner
Wiring For DCC

Re: Dead track area dcc

John Cahill
 

Ditto but mine was caused by the track being hit with a pin hammer on one side causing it to dip and then lose contact when certain locos entered the section.  Had to replace damaged section.
John

On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 12:19 PM, JerryG via Groups.Io <jerryg2003@...> wrote:
I had a similar problem once, near the middle of a three-way turn out.  It seems that the rails were slightly wider than standard as they curved and sometimes engines lost power going through even though all my frogs were powered.  Spiking the rails into alignment solved the problem.

Jerry
________________________________________________
jerryg2003@...


Re: Dead track area dcc

Ron Still
 

Agree with Mike, had this exact problem with Atlas crossing. Drove me crazy till I figured it out!


On Jun 25, 2018, at 10:09 AM, emrldsky <azMikeG@...> wrote:

There is probably a good electrical connection to the track, so it is not that.. Very probably there is a "slight" dip in one or both tracks, so one or more wheels is actually not touching the track. I have run into this a few times. Hold a long straight edge on each rail, individually and look for a gap between the rail and the straight edge.

Peace,
Mike G.

Re: How to wire a large garden extension layout

whmvd
 

I was foolish enough to have a gently sweeping curve with a bit of camber. Possibly the biggest mistake I ever made - not even an LGB crocodile could get through... It looked spectacularly natural, but I had to go back to an ordinary flat curve because of contact problems.

Wouter

On 25 June 2018 at 19:20, wirefordcc <bigboy@...> wrote:
Hi Kim,

My website has a table of wire sizes that are appropriate for each scale.  You can find the table for bus wires at:

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track_2.htm#a26

For feeders, use this table:

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track_2.htm#a14

For general information on DCC in the garden, check out this page based on my garden railroad:

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/garden.htm

Soldering to G-scale track takes a lot of heat.  If you can find clamps that will clamp your wires to your track, you may want to use those.  Be sure your track is clean where you intend to clamp it.

Putting boosters in your garden can be done, but keeping the water out of them can be difficult.  So if you can, locate your boosters close to the garden.  Twist your wires and use snubbers at the ends of your runs.

I've not used NCE equipment in the garden, so I'll leave the recommendations as to what equipment should be used to those with the experience. (I plan to use NCE equipment in my next garden railway, but that may be a few years off.)

Allan Gartner
Wiring For DCC


Re: Dead track area dcc

Gary Chudzinski
 


IMHO, I would never depend on rail joiners for electrical conductivity.  I solder power drops every six feet, in the middle of two three foot sections of flex track soldered together using #18 solid wire (for Code 100 rail) on the outside of the rails. Could also use rail joiners, however, if the joint ever needs to be separated, it's a major unsoldering job! One has to be particularly aware there is power to the turnout's short sections of track exiting an isolated frog. I have yet to have any track power problems using these procedures.

Gary Chudzinki

Re: Dead track area dcc

Brad Ketchen <bketchen@...>
 

Gary.. I'd actually suggest feeders at every 3 foot section of track. And for turnouts..I have no problem with Micro Engineering turnouts...and I run DCC/DC with a DPDT switch. 

cheers,
Brad

On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 10:19 AM, Gary Chudzinski <chudgr@...> wrote:

IMHO, I would never depend on rail joiners for electrical conductivity.  I solder power drops every six feet, in the middle of two three foot sections of flex track soldered together using #18 solid wire (for Code 100 rail) on the outside of the rails. Could also use rail joiners, however, if the joint ever needs to be separated, it's a major unsoldering job! One has to be particularly aware there is power to the turnout's short sections of track exiting an isolated frog. I have yet to have any track power problems using these procedures.

Gary Chudzinki


Re: Dead track area dcc

Jim Gray <n747jg@...>
 

Just a bit off of the subject, but I am just completing the wiring of a 30' x 20' HOn3 layout using Micro Engineering flex track and turnouts. NCE power for DCC with PSX cbs and PSX-AR auto reversers for loops. Everything is running pretty well, but on occasion my Blackstone locomotives will stall on a random turnout, especially when moving slowly. And often will start moving again on their own after a brief stall. I don’t think it’s a short even though it acts like it might be. Frog polarity is correct, in conjunction with the tortoise, and works fine 95% of the time.

Any ideas what my issue might be? Or is this just the nature of the beast?

Thanks!

Jim Gray
Denver, CO

Re: Dead track area dcc

Don Vollrath
 

Jim, If other equipment stays energized it is not a short circuit but an open one. Turn on the headlight and make it crawl through in either orientation or direction. If the light goes off, you lost power to the loco. Look for a poor or intermittent electrical connection to the movable point rails as the loco rolls through. Look also for a vertical bump that lifts the loco wheels off the rails.

DonV  

Re: Dead track area dcc

Glenn
 

We experience a similar problem on a friends 25-year old layout. The layout was built with Atlas and later with some Shinohara turnouts. DCC was employed a few years after. Because the layout was built as DC all four rails on the frog side of the turnouts have insulated joiners.

There are two NCE EB3's involved, however neither indicated a short. Testing with a meter is almost impossible as the engine restarts before a meter can be used.

The problem happens mostly with 6-axle diesels and one or two 8-coupled steam engines. Four turnouts act up. Three are Atlas, but only one turnout in a Shinohara double crossover. Engines stall on the turnout then restart most often without human assistance.

The diesels are mostly DCC-ized Athearn 6-axle engines. But not all have the problem. The steamers are Broadway Limited 4-axle. Before I put the decoders in, the diesels sat on the shelf for at least ten years. I used NCE basic decoders. The original motors were left in.

Of course the problem never occurs when you are eyeballing the site.

Oddly enough, I had put a decoder into an old Penn-line 4-wheel Plymouth diesel, it has no problems navigating the turnouts.

Glenn

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Gray <@747>
Sent: Jun 27, 2018 9:43 AM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: Re: [w4dccqa] Dead track area dcc
Everything is running pretty well, but on occasion my Blackstone locomotives will stall on a random turnout, especially when moving slowly. And often will start moving again on their own after a brief stall. I don’t think it’s a short even though it acts like it might be.

Re: Dead track area dcc

Brad Ketchen <bketchen@...>
 

Jim.. have you tried cleaning the track? I have a bright boy at the ready... could be something as simple as that! Just a suggestion.

Brad

On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 9:43 AM, Jim Gray <n747jg@...> wrote:
Just a bit off of the subject, but I am just completing the wiring of a 30' x 20' HOn3 layout using Micro Engineering flex track and turnouts.   NCE power for DCC with PSX cbs and PSX-AR auto reversers for loops.    Everything is running pretty well, but on occasion my Blackstone locomotives will stall on a random turnout, especially when moving slowly.  And often will start moving again on their own after a brief stall.  I don’t think it’s a short even though it acts like it might be.   Frog polarity is correct, in conjunction with the tortoise, and works fine 95% of the time. 

Any ideas what my issue might be?  Or is this just the nature of the beast? 

Thanks!

Jim Gray
Denver, CO










Re: Dead track area dcc

Brad Ketchen <bketchen@...>
 

btw.. my system is NCE Power cab too. I've replaced all my old Shinohara turnouts and the newer Atlas as the points are too loose...I like to hand throw them as I have a switching layout. Lance Mindheim has a lot of knowledge about that. www.lancemindheim.com

Brad

On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 2:31 PM, Brad Ketchen <bketchen@...> wrote:
Jim.. have you tried cleaning the track? I have a bright boy at the ready... could be something as simple as that! Just a suggestion.

Brad

On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 9:43 AM, Jim Gray <n747jg@...> wrote:
Just a bit off of the subject, but I am just completing the wiring of a 30' x 20' HOn3 layout using Micro Engineering flex track and turnouts.   NCE power for DCC with PSX cbs and PSX-AR auto reversers for loops.    Everything is running pretty well, but on occasion my Blackstone locomotives will stall on a random turnout, especially when moving slowly.  And often will start moving again on their own after a brief stall.  I don’t think it’s a short even though it acts like it might be.   Frog polarity is correct, in conjunction with the tortoise, and works fine 95% of the time. 

Any ideas what my issue might be?  Or is this just the nature of the beast? 

Thanks!

Jim Gray
Denver, CO











Re: Dead track area dcc

Puckdropper
 

If you drop feeders at the end of each track, you can skip every other joint and wind up with feeders every 6' while still following the "one per piece of rail" rule. This gives you another advantage in that the bus only needs to be stripped once to solder on two feeders.

Being the peculiar lazy sort that I am, I just dropped feeders on either side of every rail joiner and attached them to the bus. More physical effort for less memory effort. It doesn't really take all that long to do the extra feeders.

Another trick: Leave the feeders above the layout until you're ready to wire them. Using 22-26 gauge wire, you can loop the wire into the hole but not pull it all the way down yet. After you wire it to the bus, give it a gentle pull and the feeder will pull into the hole. Your eyes are better at seeing feeders above the track than they are seeing them below!

Puckdropper

On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 06:09 am, Brad Ketchen wrote:


Gary.. I'd actually suggest feeders at every 3 foot section of track. And
for turnouts..I have no problem with Micro Engineering turnouts...and I run
DCC/DC with a DPDT switch.

cheers,
Brad

On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 10:19 AM, Gary Chudzinski <chudgr@...> wrote:


IMHO, I would never depend on rail joiners for electrical conductivity. I
solder power drops every six feet, in the middle of two three foot sections
of flex track soldered together using #18 solid wire (for Code 100 rail) on
the outside of the rails. Could also use rail joiners, however, if the
joint ever needs to be separated, it's a major unsoldering job! One has to
be particularly aware there is power to the turnout's short sections of
track exiting an isolated frog. I have yet to have any track power problems
using these procedures.

Gary Chudzinki

Re: Dead track area dcc

Bill Wilken
 

I’ve found 3M “suitcase” connectors make the job even easier. No need to solder anything underneath benchwork. Similarly, if you tin the track end of the jumper, soldering it to the rail is quick, easy, and clean

On Jun 28, 2018, at 5:06 PM, Puckdropper via Groups.Io <puckdropper=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

If you drop feeders at the end of each track, you can skip every other joint and wind up with feeders every 6' while still following the "one per piece of rail" rule. This gives you another advantage in that the bus only needs to be stripped once to solder on two feeders.

Being the peculiar lazy sort that I am, I just dropped feeders on either side of every rail joiner and attached them to the bus. More physical effort for less memory effort. It doesn't really take all that long to do the extra feeders.

Another trick: Leave the feeders above the layout until you're ready to wire them. Using 22-26 gauge wire, you can loop the wire into the hole but not pull it all the way down yet. After you wire it to the bus, give it a gentle pull and the feeder will pull into the hole. Your eyes are better at seeing feeders above the track than they are seeing them below!

Puckdropper


On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 06:09 am, Brad Ketchen wrote:


Gary.. I'd actually suggest feeders at every 3 foot section of track. And
for turnouts..I have no problem with Micro Engineering turnouts...and I run
DCC/DC with a DPDT switch.

cheers,
Brad

On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 10:19 AM, Gary Chudzinski <chudgr@...> wrote:


IMHO, I would never depend on rail joiners for electrical conductivity. I
solder power drops every six feet, in the middle of two three foot sections
of flex track soldered together using #18 solid wire (for Code 100 rail) on
the outside of the rails. Could also use rail joiners, however, if the
joint ever needs to be separated, it's a major unsoldering job! One has to
be particularly aware there is power to the turnout's short sections of
track exiting an isolated frog. I have yet to have any track power problems
using these procedures.

Gary Chudzinki

Re: Dead track area dcc

Gary Chudzinski
 


 Brad Ketchen writes:
>Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2018 06:09:18 PDT 

>Gary.. I'd actually suggest feeders at every 3 foot section of track.  And for turnouts..I have no problem with Micro Engineering turnouts...and I run DCC/DC with a DPDT switch.  Brad,

Brad,

I do use feeders (drops) every 3 feet!  As I stated, I solder a feeder near the middle of every six foot track section, which is two 3 foot sections wire soldered together. I build and use Fast Tracks hand laid turnouts. I enjoy building them as part of the hobby and they have been trouble free.  ME doesn't make turnouts in standard S gauge.

Gary