Date   
Helix

Jerry Kramer
 

Information is helpful but duplicates what I have. Just trying to get it built period. I have a birth disability that prevents me from assembling.


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Re: Wiring a Helix for DCC

Charles Brumbelow
 

Has anyone experimented with sealing the roadbed to reduce expansion and contraction? Shellac might be satisfactory and inexpensive.

Charles

Re: Wiring a Helix for DCC

John Cahill
 

Guess my next layout will be plywood painted with diluted PVA to seal it! We don’t get extremes in temperature but humidity can go from very dry temperate climate to cold wet, and change can be fast. 

Best Regards,
John

On 9 Jun 2018, at 16:15, Dale Gloer <dale.gloer@...> wrote:

John,  the expansion/contraction issue with any kind of wood is mostly related to the humidity of the environment, not so much on temperature.  Plywood should move a lot less than dimension lumber but is not immune to it.  I live in a semi-desert climate with large differences between summer and winter temperatures and therefore large swings in humidity.  My benchwork is all plywood and I still get issues with seasonal expansion and contraction.

Dale Gloer

Re: Wiring a Helix for DCC

Brian Eiland
 

PVA,....basically wood glues we use so often?

I also found this...
http://www.instructables.com/topics/What-is-the-difference-between-PVA-glue-and-Elmers/

On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 6:48 PM, John Cahill <johncahill25@...> wrote:
Guess my next layout will be plywood painted with diluted PVA to seal it! We don’t get extremes in temperature but humidity can go from very dry temperate climate to cold wet, and change can be fast. 

Best Regards,
John

On 9 Jun 2018, at 16:15, Dale Gloer <dale.gloer@...> wrote:

John,  the expansion/contraction issue with any kind of wood is mostly related to the humidity of the environment, not so much on temperature.  Plywood should move a lot less than dimension lumber but is not immune to it.  I live in a semi-desert climate with large differences between summer and winter temperatures and therefore large swings in humidity.  My benchwork is all plywood and I still get issues with seasonal expansion and contraction.

Dale Gloer


Re: Wiring a Helix for DCC

Flash Gordon
 

HI Charles,

Interesting idea, but can you still get Shellac. I think that was made out of bug stuff. Everything is so synthetic now.

Google info:

Shellac is a resin secreted by the female lac bug, on trees in the forests of India and Thailand. It is processed and sold as dry flakes (pictured) and dissolved in ethanol to make liquid shellac, which is used as a brush-on colorant, food glaze and wood finish.

Ed S


On 6/9/2018 6:20 PM, Charles Brumbelow via Groups.Io wrote:
Has anyone experimented with sealing the roadbed to reduce expansion and contraction? Shellac might be satisfactory and inexpensive. 

Charles


Pinning, Screwing or Nailing Down a Helix?

Mark Cartwright
 

I have previously used Four Small long screws to hold my Helix in place per level. One at each direction + for the four soldered-up segments.
>> I now see where this was possibly not 100% Correct/Best > Based on Expansion Humidity and the rigidity of soldered Kato Unitrack.
Instead?
As read in another Post here...
One may not only be enough but best = So at least my Helix in Four Kato Unitrack Soldered Segments can expand/detract along all four lateral axis.
Further, for side to side expansion along the 180 degree curve at each end?
I am further segmenting each 180 degree Curve into Two - 90 Degree segments....and nailing down neither.
==> Only one screw on one side on the straight.
====
At least with Kato Unitrack in N Scale...Thank you.
Didn't consider it at first but Yes, I now believe one screw per level may be the best compromise.
Thank you for the discussion and shared experiences.
Mark

it was fairly easy to create 30" companion radius to the given 28" Kato Radius by cutting the Unitrack with a Razor Saw.
A further note, I first started a Helix using Kato V-16 kits but found their 19" radius, even in Super Elevation Not to be wide enough for some of my best Steam Locomotives. If you are limited in space or only to ever run Diesels or Short to Medium Steam then a Helix made from V16 kits might be good enough.
> Not yet sure about Kato/Tomix/Con Cor Bullet Trains; such as the Aerotrain or Zephyr?
> I have read that such trains may need a 36" radius.

For Humidity Issues in N Scale ? = Kato's Expansion Track?

Mark Cartwright
 

I am wondering if anyone else has considered or at best tried Kato's 3-4.5" Expansion Track where Humidity might be an issue?
https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/kato-n-20050-3-to-4-1-4-expansion-track-unitrack/
I know that Kato Unitrack can float upon a well planed/finished surface.
===
And actually, i had returned to the Hobby for many years before I was even made aware of such expanding track.
Instead...of even tempting to use it.
I have been razor/file cutting other specific needed cuts.
Though a few of these Kato Expansion Pieces showed up in a large-used Tote buy...I for now do not  plan on using them.
WYE?
Well much to my chagrin...i am actually tightening up tolerances all across the board on all  of my N Scale Equipment, from Track to Bridges and the Locomotives in between.
===
Here is an example of what I have also witnessed.
http://www.nscale.net/forums/showthread.php?32282-Kato-Adjustable-track
===
Instead...I for now believe the expansion in between Kato Unitrack (unsoldered) every few feet should be compensation enough for my environment in Northern California in a well insulated room.
Mark

Re: Wiring a Helix for DCC

Harlan Boyce
 

Just use a latex outside house paint. Get a light to medium color. Put a couple of coats and you will be fine

Boyce's iPhone

On Jun 9, 2018, at 5:20 PM, Charles Brumbelow via Groups.Io <mrb37211=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Has anyone experimented with sealing the roadbed to reduce expansion and contraction? Shellac might be satisfactory and inexpensive.

Charles


Re: Hello

hartleycom@...
 

John hello
Your 6 years ahead! How are you getting on electro Frog? I'm wiring my first two on Tuesday any top tips?
Best
David 
Twickenham 

 

On 7 Jun 2018, at 22:33, John Gondek <jsgondek@...> wrote:

I am responding to the e-mail. I am a new to dcc starting my first layout at 67, better late than nevre.

 

John

Re: Wiring a Helix for DCC

Charles Brumbelow
 

Speaking of helixes and their wiring...

https://youtu.be/-hPuNFjRTZA

Charles

Re: Pinning, Screwing or Nailing Down a Helix?

Timothy Holmes
 

great timing on this thread.  I am going to be starting a helix in a few weeks (money dependant) - I am in N scale, and will be using 12 - 14 inch radius.  It will be built on 1/2 inch plywood, 2 1/2 inch spacing between levels, I'll be either feeding each joiner or soldering all the joints, (not sure yet, advice wanted) and im wondering how best to secure the track to the plywood.  It shouldnt change dimensions much being plywood, im using Microengineering code 55 flex track

Thanks
TIM

On Sun, Jun 10, 2018 at 11:29 AM Mark Cartwright via Groups.Io <marcdecapri=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I have previously used Four Small long screws to hold my Helix in place per level. One at each direction + for the four soldered-up segments.
>> I now see where this was possibly not 100% Correct/Best > Based on Expansion Humidity and the rigidity of soldered Kato Unitrack.
Instead?
As read in another Post here...
One may not only be enough but best = So at least my Helix in Four Kato Unitrack Soldered Segments can expand/detract along all four lateral axis.
Further, for side to side expansion along the 180 degree curve at each end?
I am further segmenting each 180 degree Curve into Two - 90 Degree segments....and nailing down neither.
==> Only one screw on one side on the straight.
====
At least with Kato Unitrack in N Scale...Thank you.
Didn't consider it at first but Yes, I now believe one screw per level may be the best compromise.
Thank you for the discussion and shared experiences.
Mark

it was fairly easy to create 30" companion radius to the given 28" Kato Radius by cutting the Unitrack with a Razor Saw.
A further note, I first started a Helix using Kato V-16 kits but found their 19" radius, even in Super Elevation Not to be wide enough for some of my best Steam Locomotives. If you are limited in space or only to ever run Diesels or Short to Medium Steam then a Helix made from V16 kits might be good enough.
> Not yet sure about Kato/Tomix/Con Cor Bullet Trains; such as the Aerotrain or Zephyr?
> I have read that such trains may need a 36" radius.

--

Tim 

San Luis and Rio Grande

Re: Wiring a Helix for DCC

Stephen Lamb
 

I'm out in the Scottish West Highlands. The standing joke is that the precipitation exceeds the evaporation !!!! Our ambient humidity is very high. I decided on natural ventilation because its the fast cycle between the peaks and troughs that cause the warping. I habitually coat everything constructed from ply, thin timber or balsa for buildings and structures with a 50/50 PVA mix to seal surfaces. It also adds a lot of stiffness and provides a good surface to sand. The inner plywood walls  and ceiling of the shed were painted a Sky Blue matt emulsion mixed with PVA. Another good substance is the PVA/latex mix that builders use as a concrete waterproofer additive.

Re: Wiring a Helix for DCC

Charles Brumbelow
 

And then there is this... Charles


On Jun 10, 2018, at 3:49 PM, Charles Brumbelow via Groups.Io <mrb37211@...> wrote:

Speaking of helixes and their wiring...

https://youtu.be/-hPuNFjRTZA

Charles

Re: Wiring a Helix for DCC

Brian Eiland
 



On Sun, Jun 10, 2018 at 10:20 AM, Stephen Lamb via Groups.Io <stephen489@...> wrote:
I'm out in the Scottish West Highlands. The standing joke is that the precipitation exceeds the evaporation !!!! Our ambient humidity is very high. I decided on natural ventilation because its the fast cycle between the peaks and troughs that cause the warping. I habitually coat everything constructed from ply, thin timber or balsa for buildings and structures with a 50/50 PVA mix to seal surfaces. It also adds a lot of stiffness and provides a good surface to sand. The inner plywood walls  and ceiling of the shed were painted a Sky Blue matt emulsion mixed with PVA. Another good substance is the PVA/latex mix that builders use as a concrete waterproofer additive.

I was going to ask about that type of product as i have a few cans of it,...concrete, masonry sealer . One of them is silconized?
Brian
_._,

Re: Hello

Dale Gloer
 

David,

all the best tips for Peco Electrofrog are covered in the wiringfordcc website.  Here is the link to the Peco section.
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches_peco.htm

Dale Gloer

Re: Wiring a Helix for DCC

Stephen Lamb
 

That sounds like silicon wall sealer you paint on porous masonry and is normally clearan comes in cans. The PVA/latex mix is milky colour and comes in 5litre plastic containers.

Re: Wiring a Helix for DCC

Brian Eiland
 

You are correct, my is the clear silicon wall sealer and came in a 5 gal can. But the top of the can is rusty and partially open, so I just may not use it. My contractor friend says the PVA latex sealer is what they use on drywall, so best use something like that.

Wiring for DCC Topics Only Please

wirefordcc
 

All,

We are having some good discussions, but we need to get back to topics relating to wiring for DCC.  We have a lot of members who subscribe to this forum for wiring discussions.  People quit when unrelated topics become the norm.

Thank you for your understanding.

Allan Gartner
Wiring for DCC

District Wiring for an N Scale 10x15 foot layout using an ESU ECoS?

Mark Cartwright
 

>> District Wiring for an N Scale 10x15 foot layout using an ESU ECoS?
So where does one go to discuss such a coming event?
Gotcha !
===
Actually, I am not so alone on all this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQPvX-LBAIw
I will be adding block detection and things I can't even begin to talk about cause I don't really know what I am doing.
:)) Mark

Re: Wiring for DCC Topics Only Please

J. Frank Ervin
 

Amen  Allan and Amen !!!! 

I'm 87 years and need all the help I can get w/o distractions.  Just about ready to start wiring for DCC on a 16 x 60 ft layout.  (  Hopefully, the grim
reaper stays away).  Where can contributions be sent to enable the continued support of this program for future generations? Thanks for advising.