Date   
Re: Change of email address.

whmvd
 

It's literally years since I needed to do anything on Yahoo (thank heavens), but what you need to do is log in there (obviously using your existing email subscription) and go to your settings (whatever they are called there, I really don't know). Can't be more helpful/detailed, sorry. But that IS the only way.

Wouter

On 26 May 2018 at 16:25, Donald Gale hetmandon84@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 

  didn't see anywhere to do it. So could you please enlighten me?



From: "Wouter van Doorn vandoornw@... [WiringForDCC]" <WiringForDCC@...>
To: WiringForDCC@...
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2018 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Change of email address.

 
Hi Don,

Notifying the group in this way achieves nothing. You need to update your Yahoo subscription and all will be well.

WOuter

On 25 May 2018 at 13:43, Donald Gale hetmandon84@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:
 
 I would like to inform you of a change in my email address. My new address is:
  I enjoy reading the threads in your group. And I would like to thank you for the work you all do in hosting this group.
 Sincerely,
 Don Gale.




Re: Change of email address.

robert leslie
 

Look at any incoming message.   At the very bottom of the page it says in a hyperlink "Visit your group"

Visit and change your email address.

Bob Leslie 

WiringForDCC Transfer

silversteina@...
 

To The Members of the WiringForDCC@....


The Transfer request to move this group to Groups.io has been received and accepted.


Shortly the transfer will take place. When the transfer is completed you will receive an email that you are a member of the new group.


The new group name is: Allan Gartner's Wiring for DCC Question and Answer Forum.


Please hold off joining the new group or posting a message of any kind until after the transfer takes place.


Joining early will revert your current status back to that of a new member. The transfer process does not transfer anyone who is already a member of the new group and that includes the date you joined the group.


Posting a message during the transfer period might cause a loss in information.


We appreciate your membership and hope that you will find the new group as interesting and informative as you have found this list at Yahoo Groups.


Sincerely,


Wiring For DCC Management.



member?

Greg Harter
 

I trust that the emails I've received mean I'm a current member of the new group.

Once I have confirmation, I'll send  an email about a shorting problem I have.

Thanks.

Greg Harter

Re: WiringForDCC Transfer

Hayden_B <nosyned@...>
 

There could no doubt be some teething problems in setting up the new group, however perseverance and understanding by all will get everyone back into the groove.

Thanks to the owners / moderators for their work in setting this up and administering it. I'm sure this will be a better experience for all members.

Cheers,
Hayden

Re: WiringForDCC Transfer

wirefordcc
 

All,

 

Hayden, I couldn’t have said it better!  I’d like to publicly thank Al Silverstein who has been doing most of the work to see this transfer through.  He has prior experience moving other groups and has definitely made this go faster and smoother than had I done it alone.

 

The old Yahoo! group is frozen.  Start using the new group.  Hang in there if there are any hick-ups or delays.  I’m confident that this will be working smoothly very soon.

 

Welcome everyone to Groups.io and the Wiring For DCC Q&A Forum!

 

Allan Gartner  WiringForDCC.com 

        

 

Re: member?

wirefordcc
 

Hi, Greg,

 

I believe you are good to go.  Please be the first to ask a question on the new group and let’s see how this goes.

 

Please make a new post so that it doesn’t have the subject “member?”

 

Welcome!

 

Allan Gartner

Wiring For DCC

 

From: w4dccqa@groups.io <w4dccqa@groups.io> On Behalf Of Greg Harter
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2018 8:37 AM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: [w4dccqa] member?

 

I trust that the emails I've received mean I'm a current member of the new group.

 

Once I have confirmation, I'll send  an email about a shorting problem I have.

 

Thanks.

 

Greg Harter

Wiring a Helix for DCC

Brian Eiland
 

I've seen a few references that suggest it is NOT necessary to run the bus-lines along the track route in a spiral helix, but rather just run the track feeders lines down one of the vertical legs (post) to the bus wires at the bottom. I thought this was a good idea.

My question is how many of these vertical connections should be made?

My helix is a double track affair with radii of 32.5” and 29.5”. I have plans to stagger the rail joints, and to solder all the rail joints,...code 100 Atlas rail.

Considering this sort of relatively small radius/circumference, I'm thinking I need only one feeder set of wires for each elevation/loop of the helix. And perhaps these feeders wires might be sized a bit larger than normal??

Wiring a Helix for DCC

Brian Eiland
 
Edited

I've seen a few references that suggest it is NOT necessary to run the bus-lines along the track route in a spiral helix, but rather just run the track feeders lines down one of the vertical legs (post) to the bus wires at the bottom. I thought this was a good idea.

My question is how many of these vertical connections should be made?

My helix is a double track affair with radii of 32.5” and 29.5”. I have plans to stagger the rail joints, and to solder all the rail joints,...code 100 Atlas rail.

Considering this sort of relatively small radius/circumference, I'm thinking I need only one feeder set of wires for each elevation/loop of the helix. And perhaps these feeders wires might be sized a bit larger than normal??

Re: Wiring a Helix for DCC

wirefordcc
 

Our first customer for the new Q&A forum!  Let’s see if this reply works. 

 

Note:  Some people solder joiners on a curve.  Others would debate whether doing this on every joiner wise given expansion/contraction issues.  I’m not experienced enough with doing this to comment on the wisdom of this approach.  I will only address the power feeder question.

 

A good rule is that every piece of track should be soldered to something; whether it be the next piece of track or a feeder.  Since you are going to solder every joiner in your helix, it should be adequate to run a bus up one side of the helix and also half way around the helix.  Definitely do not run the bus completely under the spiral of the helix.

 

I was in a club that supported their helix with threaded rod.  Then there nuts to support each spiral of the helix.  This was simple and made it easy to get the incline of the helix just right.  They applied power to the threaded rods.  The threaded rods became the bus.  Then wires were run from the threaded rod to the track.  The feeders were attached to the threaded rod using star washers that have solder tabs on them.  You should be able to get threaded rods from Mouser, Digikey, or similar electronics supply stores.

 

Allan Gartner

Wiring For DCC

Re: Wiring a Helix for DCC

Vollrath, Don <don.vollrath@...>
 

Brian, An ideal connection is to have a track bus feeder about every 6 ft. What I might recommend is …

Run a sub-bus up/down along one of the uprights. 14-16 AWG

Add track feeders to the sub bus at each circular pass of the spiral.

Solder the track joints in the spiral for alignment and continuity.

Leave plenty of space gaps in the rails at top and bottom for expansion/contraction.

This should be adequate.

 

But with an approx. 33 inch outside radius, the rail length on each turn will be ~17 ft long…. Or about 8+ feet from the nearest outside upright and track feeder. There is no need to follow the track along the spiral with an electrical wire, but if you are overly concerned, providing a second sub-bus and connecting to each set of rails at each pass on an opposite upright will double the electrical connections and reduce the electrical path to the nearest feeder to be less than 5 ft. A little on the side of overkill.

 

DonV

 

 

From: w4dccqa@groups.io [mailto:w4dccqa@groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Eiland
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2018 1:10 PM
To: w4dccqa@groups.io
Subject: [w4dccqa] Wiring a Helix for DCC

 

I've seen a few references that suggest it is NOT necessary to run the bus-lines along the track route in a spiral helix, but rather just run the track feeders lines down one of the vertical legs (post) to the bus wires at the bottom. I thought this was a good idea.

My question is how many of these vertical connections should be made?

My helix is a double track affair with radii of 32.5” and 29.5”. I have plans to stagger the rail joints, and to solder all the rail joints,...code 100 Atlas rail.

Considering this sort of relatively small radius/circumference, I'm thinking I need only one feeder set of wires for each elevation/loop of the helix. And perhaps these feeders wires might be sized a bit larger than normal??

Re: Wiring a Helix for DCC

John Cahill
 

I have a similar helix and use threaded rod but never thought to use them as a bus. Interesting concept. I did stagger joints as it helped keep kinks out of the rails. I fed the busses up round the rods inside and outside for the two lines and wound them round the rods taking feeders off to each yard of track (don’t like soldering fishplates to track). Solder as usual to convenient spot on the rails. Hope this helps.

Best Regards,
John

Re: Older Shinohara Turnouts

George Galyon
 

Our club has two Shinohara turnout assemblies (a 3-way and a double x-over) with the "old" double cross-bar design.  Both work well in DCC and DC with just point-to-stock rail contacts...no derailments..nada.
Try it ..you'll like it. I think the saving grace is that these turnouts have a generous "gap" between the point rails and the stock rails ...generous enough so that none of our rolling stock bridges the point-to-stock
rail gap.  And..we keep the point and stock rail contact area clean with an occasional swipe. 

Note:  I did jumper wire the point-to-closure rails on the 3-way for better electrical continuity..no gapping though. 

Note:  I did "putty up" the X-crossings on the double crossover to eliminate shorting.  You need to cover the vertical surfaces at the crossing for good DCC operation.  With India ink I needed to put an auto light bulb in one (of the two) feeder wire.  With JB weld I got enough thickness on the vertical surfaces of the X-crossing so I didn't need the light bulbs.
ref.  See Double-crossover article on "Wiring for DCC" web site. 

Hello

John Gondek
 

I am responding to the e-mail. I am a new to dcc starting my first layout at 67, better late than nevre.

 

John

Re: Wiring a Helix for DCC

Brian Eiland
 

This subject of track expansion comes up again and again. I even started a separate subject thread on this subject, and it does appear to be a roadbed issue rather than the track itself

Track or Subroadbed, ...Expansion\Contraction problems
http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/33144

What exactly is the problem that almost all us face with our model railroad track seeming to change shape (length in particular), with temp & humidity variations? Can it be attributed to the track alone, or the subroadbed alone?  ...or primarily to __?

I've heard a number of folks who say the expansion/contraction of our rail itself is minuscule compared to that of the wood that most of our subroadbeds are constructed of.?... And that is the primary reason we experience what appears to be a change in track length, but its really the roadbed the track is attached to??





On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 3:27 PM, John Cahill <johncahill25@...> wrote:
I have a similar helix and use threaded rod but never thought to use them as a bus. Interesting concept. I did stagger joints as it helped keep kinks out of the rails. I fed the busses up round the rods inside and outside for the two lines and wound them round the rods taking feeders off to each yard of track (don’t like soldering fishplates to track). Solder as usual to convenient spot on the rails. Hope this helps.

Best Regards,
John



Re: Wiring a Helix for DCC

Don Vollrath
 

Yes Brian. It is the roadbed that contracts and expands far more so than the metal rail. When the roadbed shrinks and there is no place like a gap at rail joints for the rail to slide into it can force a kink to occur. If you have neatly nailed down flextrack in multiple places the rials will kink and make wave-like curves between the nails. So in a multi-turn helix one might be better off soldering all rail joints but only securing the track with one nail per helix turn. Now you will not notice the change in roadbed dimension as the track, ties and all, will move ever so slightly.

DonV

Re: Wiring a Helix for DCC

Mark Cartwright
 

My Helix is similar to yours; but in a double N Scale Double Kato Unitrack at 30' and 28" radius in a oblong shape at a 1.5% Grade. For now the straights carry all of the grade and the Helix flattens out into the curves. The overall dimensions of this N Scale Helix is 63 x 96 inches. (about the size of a Queen Sized Bed.
===
Each level is constructed on four modules, which are held up by all threads. Each module is 1 1/2 inches thick with 5 mm triply facing on both sides. Squared to the outside but rounded to the inside, like a football/track field; as found at a High School.
===
As for my bus lines...
Kato Drop down leads every 90 degree Quarter Radius approximately every 36 inches. And one drop down lead per straight module.
That is six drop down leads per level.
> Yes, I solder each section as well. Being very careful to set each section flat with top rail to top rail leveling. I clamp each two sections to  either marble or steel strip as I solder, then go over the finished/soldered rail with a variety of files, both on top and the insides.
These plug into Kato Blue Boxes which have been opened up and 12 gauge color coded wire soldered through them.
====
I have only tested this arrangement and do not have it currently in an operational layout.
The Kato Track was to be set upon CCW-705 underlayment which quiets it up substantially on a sub-strand level.
For now I do not totally solder my track. Instead, i put a toothpick slice of Dielectric Grease between each snap section; as I test.
====
This Helix was to be part of a three tier multi-connected layout in a large basement....but I have moved, my sleeping arrangements to a another location which also sports room for a layout.  So My Helix basically sits in the basement as storage for now.
====
Sounds to me you have a good clue on what to do already.
Mark

Re: Wiring a Helix for DCC

Brian Eiland
 

One nail per helix turn sounds like far to little in a helix spiral? Did you perhaps mean one nail per 36" section of track?? .....Even that sounds questionable.
Brian
*************************************


On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 10:17 PM, Don Vollrath <donevol43@...> wrote:
Yes Brian. It is the roadbed that contracts and expands far more so than the metal rail. When the roadbed shrinks and there is no place like a gap at rail joints for the rail to slide into it can force a kink to occur. If you have neatly nailed down flextrack in multiple places the rials will kink and make wave-like curves between the nails. So in a multi-turn helix one might be better off soldering all rail joints but only securing the track with one nail per helix turn. Now you will not notice the change in roadbed dimension as the track, ties and all, will move ever so slightly.

DonV

Re: Wiring a Helix for DCC

Timothy Holmes <taholmes160@...>
 

Im listening to this discussion closely, as I am about to begin construction of a helix

TIM

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 7:57 AM Brian Eiland <railandsail@...> wrote:
One nail per helix turn sounds like far to little in a helix spiral? Did you perhaps mean one nail per 36" section of track?? .....Even that sounds questionable.
Brian
*************************************


On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 10:17 PM, Don Vollrath <donevol43@...> wrote:
Yes Brian. It is the roadbed that contracts and expands far more so than the metal rail. When the roadbed shrinks and there is no place like a gap at rail joints for the rail to slide into it can force a kink to occur. If you have neatly nailed down flextrack in multiple places the rials will kink and make wave-like curves between the nails. So in a multi-turn helix one might be better off soldering all rail joints but only securing the track with one nail per helix turn. Now you will not notice the change in roadbed dimension as the track, ties and all, will move ever so slightly.

DonV

--

Tim 

San Luis and Rio Grande

Re: Wiring a Helix for DCC

Dale Gloer
 
Edited

For what it's worth, on my previous layout I had a 4 turn, 2 track helix in HO with a 27 inch radius.  Each turn was split into 2 parts with detection on each part.  I ran the track feeders down the the track bed supports to terminal blocks that connected to current detectors.  This arrangement was absolutely trouble free.  I used 18 gauge wire for all the track feeders from the terminal blocks.  Don't skimp on wire size.

Dale Gloer