Convert Bachmann G Shay to DCC

Tony Rentschler

Hi All,

I’m converting an older G scale Bachmann DC two-truck, 36-ton Shay to DCC. I have the new power trucks, which isolate the motor from the track pickups. I’m not using any of the original electronics. I’m adding a speaker and TCS WOW501 steam sound decoder, and I’ll have front and rear headlights. No flickering firebox or cab light.

With the locomotive traveling from left to right, the trucks' wires are as follows (Bachmann does not follow any convention):

Front truck (coupler to the right and gears facing me)
On the right side:
- Orange = track Left
- Brown (or gray or green, I can’t tell) = M-

On the left:
- Red = track Right
- Black = M+

Rear Truck (coupler to the left, gears facing me)
On the right side:
- Orange = track Right
- Brown = M+

On the left:
- Red = track Left
- Black = M-

So even though the front truck travels “forward” and the rear truck in “reverse,” Bachman uses the same color wires on the same sides of each truck. However, Bachman reverses both the track pickups and motor leads in the rear truck. My question is, do I need to reverse both the track pickup wires AND the motor leads in the rear truck at my decoder? Or just the motor leads? I’ll use NMRA convention (red = track right+, black = track left-, orange = motor+, gray = motor-) when I attach my leads from both trucks to the decoder.

I’m stuck trying to puzzle this out.

Tony

Re: Convert Bachmann G Shay to DCC

Paul O

Tony, this is how I would approach the problem:

Using an ohmmeter,

Connect one lead to the front truck-right wheel; identify the corresponding wire (replace it with a RED wire if you want to).

Connect one lead to the rear truck-right wheel; identify the corresponding wire (replace it with a RED wire if you want to).

Then connect those two wires to the RED terminal of the WOW501.

Connect one lead to the front truck-left wheel; identify the corresponding wire (replace it with a BLACK wire if you want to).

Connect one lead to the rear truck-left wheel; identify the corresponding wire (replace it with a BLACK wire if you want to).

Then connect those two wires to the BLACK terminal of the WOW501.

Now, for the motor leads, connect the FRONT truck motor wires to the decoder; test if the wheels turn in the correct direction (swap wires if necessary).

Do the same with the REAR truck.

You can change the color of the motor wires (if you want to) once all the motor wires are identified.

Good luck,    Paul O

Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 8:19 AM
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Convert Bachmann G Shay to DCC

Hi Al,

I’m converting an older G scale Bachmann DC two-truck, 36-ton Shay to DCC. I have the new power trucks, which isolate the motor from the track pickups. I’m not using any of the original electronics. I’m adding a speaker and TCS WOW501 steam sound decoder, and I’ll have front and rear headlights. No flickering firebox or cab light.

With the locomotive traveling from left to right, the trucks' wires are as follows (Bachmann does not follow any convention):

Front truck (coupler to the right and gears facing me)
On the right side:
- Orange = track Left
- Brown (or gray or green, I can’t tell) = M-

On the left:
- Red = track Right
- Black = M+

Rear Truck (coupler to the left, gears facing me)
On the right side:
- Orange = track Right
- Brown = M+

On the left:
- Red = track Left
- Black = M-

So even though the front truck travels “forward” and the rear truck in “reverse,” Bachman uses the same color wires on the same sides of each truck. However, Bachman reverses both the track pickups and motor leads in the rear truck. My question is, do I need to reverse both the track pickup wires AND the motor leads in the rear truck at my decoder? Or just the motor leads? I’ll use NMRA convention (red = track right+, black = track left-, orange = motor+, gray = motor-) when I attach my leads from both trucks to the decoder.

I’m stuck trying to puzzle this out.

Tony

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Re: Convert Bachmann G Shay to DCC

rg <richg_1998@...>

I have Bachmann locos and always use an ohm meter and follow the NMRA code. Easy.

Rich

On Thursday, January 11, 2018, 1:46 PM, 'Paul O' pomilian@... [WiringForDCC]

Tony, this is how I would approach the problem:

Using an ohmmeter,

Connect one lead to the front truck-right wheel; identify the corresponding wire (replace it with a RED wire if you want to).

Connect one lead to the rear truck-right wheel; identify the corresponding wire (replace it with a RED wire if you want to).

Then connect those two wires to the RED terminal of the WOW501.

Connect one lead to the front truck-left wheel; identify the corresponding wire (replace it with a BLACK wire if you want to).

Connect one lead to the rear truck-left wheel; identify the corresponding wire (replace it with a BLACK wire if you want to).

Then connect those two wires to the BLACK terminal of the WOW501.

Now, for the motor leads, connect the FRONT truck motor wires to the decoder; test if the wheels turn in the correct direction (swap wires if necessary).

Do the same with the REAR truck.

You can change the color of the motor wires (if you want to) once all the motor wires are identified.

Good luck,    Paul O

Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 8:19 AM
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Convert Bachmann G Shay to DCC

Hi Al,

I’m converting an older G scale Bachmann DC two-truck, 36-ton Shay to DCC. I have the new power trucks, which isolate the motor from the track pickups. I’m not using any of the original electronics. I’m adding a speaker and TCS WOW501 steam sound decoder, and I’ll have front and rear headlights. No flickering firebox or cab light.

With the locomotive traveling from left to right, the trucks' wires are as follows (Bachmann does not follow any convention):

Front truck (coupler to the right and gears facing me)
On the right side:
- Orange = track Left
- Brown (or gray or green, I can’t tell) = M-

On the left:
- Red = track Right
- Black = M+

Rear Truck (coupler to the left, gears facing me)
On the right side:
- Orange = track Right
- Brown = M+

On the left:
- Red = track Left
- Black = M-

So even though the front truck travels “forward” and the rear truck in “reverse,” Bachman uses the same color wires on the same sides of each truck. However, Bachman reverses both the track pickups and motor leads in the rear truck. My question is, do I need to reverse both the track pickup wires AND the motor leads in the rear truck at my decoder? Or just the motor leads? I’ll use NMRA convention (red = track right+, black = track left-, orange = motor+, gray = motor-) when I attach my leads from both trucks to the decoder.

I’m stuck trying to puzzle this out.

Tony

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Re: Convert Bachmann G Shay to DCC

Tony Rentschler

Thanks Paul and Rich. Can do!

Tony

On Jan 11, 2018, at 2:40 PM, rg richg_1998@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

I have Bachmann locos and always use an ohm meter and follow the NMRA code. Easy.

Rich

On Thursday, January 11, 2018, 1:46 PM, 'Paul O' pomilian@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

Tony, this is how I would approach the problem:

Using an ohmmeter,

Connect one lead to the front truck-right wheel; identify the corresponding wire (replace it with a RED wire if you want to).

Connect one lead to the rear truck-right wheel; identify the corresponding wire (replace it with a RED wire if you want to).

Then connect those two wires to the RED terminal of the WOW501.

Connect one lead to the front truck-left wheel; identify the corresponding wire (replace it with a BLACK wire if you want to).

Connect one lead to the rear truck-left wheel; identify the corresponding wire (replace it with a BLACK wire if you want to).

Then connect those two wires to the BLACK terminal of the WOW501.

Now, for the motor leads, connect the FRONT truck motor wires to the decoder; test if the wheels turn in the correct direction (swap wires if necessary).

Do the same with the REAR truck.

You can change the color of the motor wires (if you want to) once all the motor wires are identified.

Good luck,    Paul O

Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 8:19 AM
Subject: [WiringForDCC] Convert Bachmann G Shay to DCC

Hi Al,

I’m converting an older G scale Bachmann DC two-truck, 36-ton Shay to DCC. I have the new power trucks, which isolate the motor from the track pickups. I’m not using any of the original electronics. I’m adding a speaker and TCS WOW501 steam sound decoder, and I’ll have front and rear headlights. No flickering firebox or cab light.

With the locomotive traveling from left to right, the trucks' wires are as follows (Bachmann does not follow any convention):

Front truck (coupler to the right and gears facing me)
On the right side:
- Orange = track Left
- Brown (or gray or green, I can’t tell) = M-

On the left:
- Red = track Right
- Black = M+

Rear Truck (coupler to the left, gears facing me)
On the right side:
- Orange = track Right
- Brown = M+

On the left:
- Red = track Left
- Black = M-

So even though the front truck travels “forward” and the rear truck in “reverse,” Bachman uses the same color wires on the same sides of each truck. However, Bachman reverses both the track pickups and motor leads in the rear truck. My question is, do I need to reverse both the track pickup wires AND the motor leads in the rear truck at my decoder? Or just the motor leads? I’ll use NMRA convention (red = track right+, black = track left-, orange = motor+, gray = motor-) when I attach my leads from both trucks to the decoder.

I’m stuck trying to puzzle this out.

Tony

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Re: new dcc HO layout

Mark Gurries

Sorry for the late response.  Went on a Bis Trip attending CES show in Vegas last week.

Anyway, you have is correct.

There is no rule of how many power districts a given booster district can support.   3 power districts is not bad, but your not limited to 3.   The only requirement is the 5A booster will not see more than 5amp total under normal operating conditions of all the power districts combined.   If you have multiple engine on a given train, keep that in mind too.    Gross some what impractical example but it would technically work:   You can have 100 Power districts powered by one booster because you never run more than one engine at a time on a large layout with every power district no further away than 30ft of the booster.  So you have to think about how your going to run you trains on the layout and where will they be and how long.

On Jan 7, 2018, at 4:56 PM, vmarino2009 vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

That helped a lot. So if i understand correctly the booster will supply to three power districts which make up one booster district. While the command control unit (which also has 5amps) will control three different power districts and it makes up another booster district. In summary there would be two booster districts and 6 power districts. Do I have that right?

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC]" <WiringForDCC@...>
Date: 1/7/18 6:15 PM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] new dcc HO layout

Although it is true that if you have 2 Five amp boosters the simple math says they add up to 10amps.  However that is not what happens electrically.

That simplistic math ASSUMES the booster are wire in parallel and share the load such that together they can provide up to 10amps to a single locomotive.

Booster are use to DIVIDE up the layout electrically into to independent 5 amps sections for many electrical reasons.  Boosters are meant to be “distribute" power around the layout.

1) Two much power consumed in a geographical are of a multilevel layout.   Example a Engine facility and yard on level 1 and staging track above it on level 2.
2) Long Track bus runs well exceeding ~30 foot run length from the booster.

It is a "divided and conquer” electrical solution to large scale DCC electrical problems.  Cuts them down to manageable sizes.

The electrical division of layout creates what is called a Booster Districts such that a given booster does not share track power responsibilities with other boosters.  As a engine travels around the layout, it only powered by one booster at any time.  Hence even if you have two 5amps boosters, the engine only receives a maximum of 5amps of power from one of them at any time.    The only time the two booster come into electrical contact with each other is when a given engine cross the booster district boundary consisting or two double insulated rail joiners or gaps.  When the engine completes the crossing, it back to a single booster for its power source.

Booster districts are not to be confused with power districts.   Power districts are created by some kind of DCC circuit breaker that runs from a single booster.  So each booster can have its own independent set of power districts subdividing it power.

So having two 5 amp booster does not make it a 10amp booster layout.  It is still a 5amp booster layout just divided up into multiple 5A sections.

The only time you would need high current 8 to 10 amp boosters is if you have large scale locomotives such as O scale or G scale where the engines NEED that kind of power within a booster district.  But the rules of how many booster you need remains the same as above.

On Jan 7, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

Hi Ed,

the pro cab r has a 5amp control station and the pb5 power booster is also 5amps. Doesn't that provide a total of 10 amps or am I missing something?  Yes I want the capacity to run >10 loco without a power deficiency.

What exactly do you mean "Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together."?

thanks

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors
Project Manager
904-260-7663 office
904-683-2914 fax
904-449-6339  mobile
www.bestaffordablecontractors.com

The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please: (i) delete the message and all copies; (ii) do not disclose, distribute or use the message in any manner; and (iii) notify the sender immediately.

On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 2:22 PM, 'Ed Sargent' ed_sargent@... [WiringForDCC]  wrote:

If I’m following this correctly but if you separate the layout into power districts 5 amps are plenty unless you plan on having 10 engine consists. I have seen 9 engine consists pulling 140 cars using PB5s. Also unless I’m miss understanding 2 boosters don’t give you 10 amps. Also the cases of the boosters need to be bonded together.

From: WiringForDCC@... [mailto:WiringForDCC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 11:33 AM
To: WiringForDCC@...
Subject: Re: [WiringForDCC] Re: new dcc HO layout

Vincent

I'm not an NCE user, but here goes.  If you have two devices, each of which can provide 5 Amps to power your trains, you may not merge the DCS and DB booster outputs before splitting off to the various blocks.   You'll damage the booster or the command station, or both.  They need to be kept completely separate all the way to the rails; this is the same whether you're using NCE, or Digitrax.  It's the same as having two power amplifiers for your stereo - you can't just tie the outputs together and get twice as much wattage..

As for the buzzer, what powers it?  Again, you should get in the habit of not wiring any energized item to your rails, so if you're going to use a buzzer to monitor for shorts, make sure you disconnect the DB/DCS before you start wiring..
Regards
Blair Smith

On 2018-01-06 16:34, Affordable Roofing Contractors vmarino2009@gmail..com [WiringForDCC] wrote:

Don thanks for the advice. Yes I purchased the PH-PRO-R it comes with the command station integrated with a 5 amp power station, UTP panel and cables. Additionally, I purchase a separate power supply for the pro cab.  I also purchased a separate PB-5 amp booster that will give me a total 10 amps so I can run up to 10 loco.

The wiring of the pro cab and pb5 is my next challenge. I'm thinking they can both go into a wire terminal that separates into power sections. Or does the pro cab power station daisy chain into the pb5 then to the wire terminal?  That's what I need to find out..

I'm going to take your advice and leave the circuit breakers off for the time being.  I purchased a buzzer that I will use when installing the track. I understand it will buzz if I install a feeder wire wrong..

I am so new to DCC but very excited about the challenges and rewards. I appreciate your input.

Sincerely,
Vincent Marino
Vincent Marino
Affordable Roofing Contractors

Project Manager
904-260-7663 office

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com

Re: DCC-Friendly Walthers/Shinohara Turnouts

Alan Cushing

Finally, have the 3-way switch spiked down.

Along the way, I did find an older non-DCC compatible switch on ebay so I bought it.  Found out it was worse.  Where the new DCC-compatible one causes a short along 1/2 inch of independent rail (wired underneath to the right-hand rail) between the smaller left-side frogs, the older one has a short on the same spot but the problem rail is much longer, ,part of one of the frogs.  The problem/confusion is when using the left hand route, the frog polarity there is controlled by the position of the other throwbar.  Does not sound logical but it is true.

So I spiked down the new DCC-compatible after first accessing the wire that ties that 1/2 inch of annoying rail to one of the main rails.  I cut the far end of the welded strap thinking to drop it down a hole so I could possibly control it later but once moved the strap broke loose from the underside of that rail.  With that short rail now isolated, I tested the switch with my heisler.  No shorts now but it did find the dead frogs.  I also tested the switch with an 0-8-0 which ran through it just fine.  So no surprise that the frogs must be powered.

I thought about using electrical Caboose throws but as listed in paragraph one, it would be confusing.  When switching the first throwbar to the left, the 2nd throwbar must be in the proper position otherwise one of the left-hand frogs will short.  I went to a logic chart listing the required polarity of the frogs in the 3 routes.  I have decided to make a little switch panel with two toggles  (2 frogs are always the same polarity) and a chart listing their positions for each of the 3 directions.  Now I can use simple caboose throws to control the rails.

Good Luck,

AC

New Layout Questions

Tom Anderson

I am beginning a totally new HO layout having abandoned N scale. I need to buy practically everything. So, I am looking for recommendations for:

* Track
* Switches
* Engines
* Rolling stock

The layout will be approximately 6 x 10. I already have a Digitrax DCS 210 with DT500 throttle I can use.

On my small N layout, I never dealt with Y's or loopbacks, so I wondering what wiring considerations I need to be aware of. Looking at Peco switches and wanting to know should I get Insulfrog or Electrofrogs?

Any suggestions/guidance would be appreciated!

Tom Anderson

P.O. Box 160396
Boiling Springs, SC 29316

(864) 621-8607
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Problems with booster districts - double gaps

rsauerbrun

Hi ... we have a fairly large, all Digitrax layout with the following gear: DCS100 (not providing track power), 3 DB150 boosters, 4 BDL168s for occupancy, 6 SE8Cs for signaling, and 24 DS64s to control our Tortoise machines. We use the recommended Direct Home wiring, have double gapped all tracks between booster districts, and have installed a ground reference wire between the DCS100, the 3 DB150s, and the 4 BDL168s. However, when we test rail continuity over the double gaps, we hear a strange beep, beep, beep from our multi-meter. It sounds almost like a busy signal on the telephone. We were expecting no sound at all, proving that the gap exists. We have triple checked the rail gaps, all our bus wires and track feeders and have nothing crossing the gaps. The only wire that connects the districts (other than LocoNet) is the DCC ground reference. We noticed the issue when locos would hesitate at the district boundary and then continue on. Has anyone seen this before? Where should we look further? Thank you

Re: DCC-Friendly Walthers/Shinohara Turnouts

Annette and Dante Fuligni

Why not use Frog Juicers as I did and suggested? Then you don’t have to fiddle with toggles and you can still use basic Caboose throws.

Dante

Re: Problems with booster districts - double gaps

dvollrath@...

Richard,
1. did it run OK before but now does not? If that is the case, something broke or an isolating rail gap has closed up or there are wires touching something that is not correct.

2. Does the loco hesitation occur when a loco crosses over only certain booster district gaps?

3. when you were checking with the continuity meter, was DCC power On or Off? There are sneak diode paths inside the boosters that can cause a continuity tester to register 'yes' when power is turned Off..

4. What does a voltmeter show when DCC power is On and you put the Vac probes directly across a booster district gap ON THE SAME RAIL? If it does not read close to zero Vac you have one of the booster connections out of phase (polarity). Diagonal placement of an AC voltmeter across the booster district gaps should read >12Vac but not more than 20Vac.

DonV

---In WiringForDCC@..., <richard@...> wrote :

Hi ... we have a fairly large, all Digitrax layout with the following gear: DCS100 (not providing track power), 3 DB150 boosters, 4 BDL168s for occupancy, 6 SE8Cs for signaling, and 24 DS64s to control our Tortoise machines. We use the recommended Direct Home wiring, have double gapped all tracks between booster districts, and have installed a ground reference wire between the DCS100, the 3 DB150s, and the 4 BDL168s. However, when we test rail continuity over the double gaps, we hear a strange beep, beep, beep from our multi-meter. It sounds almost like a busy signal on the telephone. We were expecting no sound at all, proving that the gap exists. We have triple checked the rail gaps, all our bus wires and track feeders and have nothing crossing the gaps. The only wire that connects the districts (other than LocoNet) is the DCC ground reference. We noticed the issue when locos would hesitate at the district boundary and then continue on. Has anyone seen this before? Where should we look further? Thank you

Re: New Layout Questions

John Claudino <aztecmfg@...>

Tom,

You should get 1 or more track cleaner cars. aztectrains. com

John Claudino

On Jan 24, 2018, at 10:56 AM, Tom Anderson tanderson@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

I am beginning a totally new HO layout having abandoned N scale. I need to buy practically everything. So, I am looking for recommendations for:

* Track
* Switches
* Engines
* Rolling stock

The layout will be approximately 6 x 10. I already have a Digitrax DCS 210 with DT500 throttle I can use.

On my small N layout, I never dealt with Y's or loopbacks, so I wondering what wiring considerations I need to be aware of. Looking at Peco switches and wanting to know should I get Insulfrog or Electrofrogs?

Any suggestions/guidance would be appreciated!

Tom Anderson

P.O. Box 160396
Boiling Springs, SC 29316

(864) 621-8607
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Re: DCC-Friendly Walthers/Shinohara Turnouts

Alan Cushing

Hi,
Too cheap.  \$32 for something that a couple of toggle switches would do offends me.  This is supposed to be just a simple end of track group of sidings.  Also my scheme would still work for DC though my number of DC engines is dwindling.  Can't remember the last time I bought one.

AC

On Wednesday, January 24, 2018, 10:51:47 PM EST, Annette and Dante Fuligni dfuligni2144@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:

Why not use Frog Juicers as I did and suggested? Then you don’t have to fiddle with toggles and you can still use basic Caboose throws.

Dante

Re: Large Gauge Ground Wire in Parallel with Loconet Gound Wires == Groundloop?

Chris Elliott

Hi Mark, sorry for the slow response.

So as requested I've taken a few measurements and I'm a little surprised by the results, but it certainly explains a few things. My results are in the redish colour.

If you have an ohm better, check if there is continuity between the ground terminal and the metal case.
My result, I removed a case screw and stuck the probe into the thread due to all the metal having a black "coating". The measured resistance between the thread and the ground pin on the front connector was 6.8 ohms.

The next step is to measure electrical continuity between the ground terminal and the loconet ground pins 3 and 4.
My result, to my surprise 74Kohms. Yes 74,000 ohms! This was measured between the ground pin on the front connector and the middle conductors of a dummy loconet cable.

Measurements were taken with a Fluke 1587 and the booster was totally disconnected from the layout and power supply.

Regards
Chris Elliott

On Monday, 8 January 2018, 10:46, "Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC]" wrote:

Ok,

I have no first hand experience with the new systems.  I am not sure what has changed with the new systems.   The documentation of the new system promotes the ground wire as a AC Earth ground connection which makes no sense since it assumes that they have a safety liability situation which they do not.  They are not making the AC power supply which does have a liability situation and cannot be legally be sold unless it addresses that safety issue per UL, ETL or equivalent safety agency requirement.

Anyway, if it is intended as a Earth Ground connection, then it must be connected to the metal chassis.

If you have an ohm better, check if there is continuity between the ground terminal and the metal case.  There should be if supposed to fulfill its safety requirement.

The next step is to measure electrical continuity between the ground terminal and the loconet ground pins 3 and 4.   I know there is on the older Digitrax systems.  I measured it and you know it works because your suing the large ground wire with the older systems.   If the new system BREAKS that continuity, that would explain why the large ground wire does not work and you must relay on the Digitrax Loconet ground for the booster common function.

On Dec 30, 2017, at 3:01 AM, Chris Elliott cpelliott100@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

I have a DCS100 as the command station. In loconet port A I have a UR92 connected and that’s it. In loconet port B I have the loconet cable that runs to the other boosters. There are no other loconet devices connected anywhere. On the DCS100 the “home ground” is connected to the little digitrax installed pigtail. This pigtail is connected to a lug which is held against the rear heat sink..

The “home ground” wire runs for approx 14 metres before reaching the first and second boosters, it is a 2.5 millimetre cable (approx awg 13) It does not connect to anything else.
The “home ground” wire connects to the ground terminal on the front of a DB210 and then daisy chains off to the second DB210 and connects the same way.

I had previously wired a friends layout which has a DCS100 and six DB150’s configured as boosters. I had cut the loconet cables as described in Alan Gartners “booster wiring” and it works without issue.

So when I installed the booster loconet cable on my layout, I cut the wires as described on Alan’s website and as I’d done previously. But the DB210’s would not wake up. The LEDs on the front on the DB210 were not correct and trains would not run on the DB210s power districts. The both rails at boundary between power districts are gaped and insulated. Reterminating the booster loconet cable so that all 6 wires are connected corrected the issue.

Sent from planet earth

On 30 Dec 2017, at 11:53, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

How did you make the ground connection?  Details please.

On Dec 26, 2017, at 6:51 PM, Chris Elliott cpelliott100@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

Yes, I had installed a heavy gauge “home ground” between the boosters and command station.

Sent from planet earth

On 27 Dec 2017, at 11:15, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

Did you have the ground wire installed?

On Dec 24, 2017, at 8:28 PM, Chris Elliott cpelliott100@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

I’ve found that the new digitrax boosters won’t come on line if the ground wires in the loconet cables are cut.
Chris Elliott

Sent from planet earth

On 25 Dec 2017, at 04:50, nwsteamer modelrr@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

Mark,

The way I read this statement the large gauge wire in parallel to the
Loconet 'ground'  wires does constitute a 'loop' and could cause a
reliability problem..

Thus, the recommendation in Allan Gartner's website to cut the Loconet
'grounds' at the boosters is valid.  Do you agree?

On 12/24/2017 05:03 AM, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC]
wrote:
> Adding the large gauge parallel ground wire permitting a ground loop
> to be establish is the LESSER of the two evils.

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com

Re: Large Gauge Ground Wire in Parallel with Loconet Gound Wires == Groundloop?

Mark Gurries

Well that explains why the booster ground wire does not work.

With these new products, what I do not know is if this is a manufacturing defect, an intentional design change by Digitrax or a accidental design omission.

One would need to examine more of these new unit to eliminate the manufacturing defect variable.

On Jan 31, 2018, at 7:42 AM, Chris Elliott cpelliott100@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

Hi Mark, sorry for the slow response.

So as requested I've taken a few measurements and I'm a little surprised by the results, but it certainly explains a few things. My results are in the redish colour.

If you have an ohm better, check if there is continuity between the ground terminal and the metal case.
My result, I removed a case screw and stuck the probe into the thread due to all the metal having a black "coating". The measured resistance between the thread and the ground pin on the front connector was 6.8 ohms.

The next step is to measure electrical continuity between the ground terminal and the loconet ground pins 3 and 4.
My result, to my surprise 74Kohms. Yes 74,000 ohms! This was measured between the ground pin on the front connector and the middle conductors of a dummy loconet cable.

Measurements were taken with a Fluke 1587 and the booster was totally disconnected from the layout and power supply.

Regards
Chris Elliott

On Monday, 8 January 2018, 10:46, "Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC]" <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

Ok,

I have no first hand experience with the new systems.  I am not sure what has changed with the new systems.   The documentation of the new system promotes the ground wire as a AC Earth ground connection which makes no sense since it assumes that they have a safety liability situation which they do not.  They are not making the AC power supply which does have a liability situation and cannot be legally be sold unless it addresses that safety issue per UL, ETL or equivalent safety agency requirement.

Anyway, if it is intended as a Earth Ground connection, then it must be connected to the metal chassis.

If you have an ohm better, check if there is continuity between the ground terminal and the metal case.  There should be if supposed to fulfill its safety requirement.

The next step is to measure electrical continuity between the ground terminal and the loconet ground pins 3 and 4.   I know there is on the older Digitrax systems.  I measured it and you know it works because your suing the large ground wire with the older systems.   If the new system BREAKS that continuity, that would explain why the large ground wire does not work and you must relay on the Digitrax Loconet ground for the booster common function.

On Dec 30, 2017, at 3:01 AM, Chris Elliott cpelliott100@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

I have a DCS100 as the command station. In loconet port A I have a UR92 connected and that’s it. In loconet port B I have the loconet cable that runs to the other boosters. There are no other loconet devices connected anywhere. On the DCS100 the “home ground” is connected to the little digitrax installed pigtail. This pigtail is connected to a lug which is held against the rear heat sink..

The “home ground” wire runs for approx 14 metres before reaching the first and second boosters, it is a 2.5 millimetre cable (approx awg 13) It does not connect to anything else.
The “home ground” wire connects to the ground terminal on the front of a DB210 and then daisy chains off to the second DB210 and connects the same way.

I had previously wired a friends layout which has a DCS100 and six DB150’s configured as boosters. I had cut the loconet cables as described in Alan Gartners “booster wiring” and it works without issue.

So when I installed the booster loconet cable on my layout, I cut the wires as described on Alan’s website and as I’d done previously. But the DB210’s would not wake up. The LEDs on the front on the DB210 were not correct and trains would not run on the DB210s power districts. The both rails at boundary between power districts are gaped and insulated. Reterminating the booster loconet cable so that all 6 wires are connected corrected the issue.

Sent from planet earth

On 30 Dec 2017, at 11:53, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

How did you make the ground connection?  Details please.

On Dec 26, 2017, at 6:51 PM, Chris Elliott cpelliott100@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

Yes, I had installed a heavy gauge “home ground” between the boosters and command station.

Sent from planet earth

On 27 Dec 2017, at 11:15, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

Did you have the ground wire installed?

On Dec 24, 2017, at 8:28 PM, Chris Elliott cpelliott100@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

I’ve found that the new digitrax boosters won’t come on line if the ground wires in the loconet cables are cut.
Chris Elliott

Sent from planet earth

On 25 Dec 2017, at 04:50, nwsteamer modelrr@... [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

Mark,

The way I read this statement the large gauge wire in parallel to the
Loconet 'ground'  wires does constitute a 'loop' and could cause a
reliability problem..

Thus, the recommendation in Allan Gartner's website to cut the Loconet
'grounds' at the boosters is valid.  Do you agree?

On 12/24/2017 05:03 AM, Mark Gurries gurriesm@... [WiringForDCC]
wrote:
> Adding the large gauge parallel ground wire permitting a ground loop
> to be establish is the LESSER of the two evils.

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com

Best Regards,

Mark Gurries
Electrical Engineer
DCC Website & NMRA DCC Clinics: www.markgurries.com

WIRING DIAGRAM FOR ON30 LAYOUT ??

bernard steinbacher <b55go@...>

I AM NEW TO DCC, I WANT TO BUILD A DCC ON30 LAYOUT, NEED SOMEONE TO PROVIDE TRACK WIRING DIAGRAM USING NCE EQUIPMENT AND LIST OF NCE EQUIPMENT NEEDED.
THANKS
BERNARD

Re: WIRING DIAGRAM FOR ON30 LAYOUT ??

Alan Cushing

Well, details - how big a layout or more important, how many trains, oops, how many engines do you expect to run at a  time?  Maybe a beginner system (\$160?) could handle up to 5 engines, a basic system (\$450-500) perhaps 5-10 locos or many double or triple-headed trains then a system with multiple boosters and breaker panels.   NCE is a good system; throttles offer lots of info on their displays.  My club uses it and we run maybe 20+ engines at a time with many boosters with  breaker panels on each.

AC

On Friday, February 9, 2018, 2:42:14 PM EST, bernard steinbacher b55go@... [WiringForDCC] wrote:

I AM NEW TO DCC, I WANT TO BUILD A DCC ON30 LAYOUT, NEED SOMEONE TO PROVIDE TRACK WIRING DIAGRAM USING NCE EQUIPMENT AND LIST OF NCE EQUIPMENT NEEDED.
THANKS
BERNARD

dcc track plan wiring diagram services?

b55go@...

i am planning to build an on30 layout using peco code 100 track and switches, iam looking for someone to provide DCC layout wiring diagram,

and list of NCE equipment neededi

thanks so much for any help

Re: WIRING DIAGRAM FOR ON30 LAYOUT ??

Puckdropper

We'll try to help.  Could you turn your caps lock off first?

1. Do you have a track plan?
1a. Does your track loop back on itself?  IOW, will a train be able to go on the same track it was on previously without changing direction?
2. How many operators?
3. How many locomotives in use at one time?
4. Do you plan on any sort of signaling, even crossing signals?

Puckdropper

---In wiringfordcc@..., <b55go@...> wrote :

I AM NEW TO DCC, I WANT TO BUILD A DCC ON30 LAYOUT, NEED SOMEONE TO PROVIDE TRACK WIRING DIAGRAM USING NCE EQUIPMENT AND LIST OF NCE EQUIPMENT NEEDED.
THANKS
BERNARD

Re: WIRING DIAGRAM FOR ON30 LAYOUT ??

Alan Cushing

Well, details - how big a layout or more important, how many trains, oops, how many engines do you expect to run at a  time?  Maybe a beginner system (\$160?) could handle up to 5 engines, a basic system (\$450-500) perhaps 5-10 locos or many double or triple-headed trains then a system with multiple boosters and breaker panels.   NCE is a good system; throttles offer lots of info on their displays.  My club uses it and we run maybe 20+ engines at a time with many boosters with  breaker panels on each.

AC

Re: WIRING DIAGRAM FOR ON30 LAYOUT ??

bernard steinbacher <b55go@...>

Thank you for your reply :one operator two locomotives at one timeno signals,eliminate wharf areapeco code 100 track and peco switches ( not sure what kind of peco switch)??would like to use nce system18 feet long, not 28 as shownthanks bernard

On Friday, February 9, 2018, 9:30:50 PM EST, @Puckdropper [WiringForDCC] <WiringForDCC@...> wrote:

We'll try to help.  Could you turn your caps lock off first?

1. Do you have a track plan?
1a. Does your track loop back on itself?  IOW, will a train be able to go on the same track it was on previously without changing direction?
2. How many operators?
3. How many locomotives in use at one time?
4. Do you plan on any sort of signaling, even crossing signals?

Puckdropper

---In wiringfordcc@..., <b55go@...> wrote :