sticking reset


Eric Scace
 

  The coil pole face should be covered with a piece of paper or electrical tape. This helps prevent the armature from sticking to the pole face due to residual magnetism.

  I’ve had good results with a circular piece of paper cut from the sticky part of a Post-It note, or from black electrical tape, using a paper hole punch as a replacement for what covered the pole face originally.

On 2021 Jul 30, at 08:22 , Andrew Nahum <andrew.nahum@...> wrote:

I have had similar sticking on occasion. It seemed to be an electromagnetic phenomenon that developed because the ‘dwell’ of the closed contacts was too long. I have found over the years that  it’s always best to check or re-set all the gaps or clearances in the mechanism rather than use intuition to try and address a problem with particular adjustments.


Andrew Nahum
 

Good tip - I think you’ve put your finger on it. In my case the sticking certainly felt magnetic. Suggested by the way the grip let go as soon as the gravity arm was pulled away by a quarter of a millimetre or so. When I’m being good I set all the gaps with automotive feeler gauges or measured drill shanks for the larger ones. 


On 2 Aug 2021, at 22:17, Eric Scace <eric@...> wrote:

  The coil pole face should be covered with a piece of paper or electrical tape. This helps prevent the armature from sticking to the pole face due to residual magnetism.

  I’ve had good results with a circular piece of paper cut from the sticky part of a Post-It note, or from black electrical tape, using a paper hole punch as a replacement for what covered the pole face originally.

On 2021 Jul 30, at 08:22 , Andrew Nahum <andrew.nahum@...> wrote:

I have had similar sticking on occasion. It seemed to be an electromagnetic phenomenon that developed because the ‘dwell’ of the closed contacts was too long. I have found over the years that  it’s always best to check or re-set all the gaps or clearances in the mechanism rather than use intuition to try and address a problem with particular adjustments.


Ian Richardson
 

What you say is correct, but shouldn't be necessary as there is a buffer which limits the proximity of the armature to the pole pieces.  In my previous posting with a sketch of the settings, I mentioned as Stage 1 the setting of this as 0.01".  If this setting is correct, the armature should never make contact with the pole pieces, rendering the piece of paper unnecessary.

In the slave movements, it was common for a piece of paper to cover the face of the pole piece. In PO 3000 type relays, a brass stud was fitted to the pole face to achieve the same effect.

Best regards,

Ian R
Auvergne, France



-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Scace <eric@...>
To: synchronome <synchronome1@groups.io>
Sent: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 23:17
Subject: [synchronomeelectricclock] sticking reset

  The coil pole face should be covered with a piece of paper or electrical tape. This helps prevent the armature from sticking to the pole face due to residual magnetism.

  I’ve had good results with a circular piece of paper cut from the sticky part of a Post-It note, or from black electrical tape, using a paper hole punch as a replacement for what covered the pole face originally.

On 2021 Jul 30, at 08:22 , Andrew Nahum <andrew.nahum@...> wrote:

I have had similar sticking on occasion. It seemed to be an electromagnetic phenomenon that developed because the ‘dwell’ of the closed contacts was too long. I have found over the years that  it’s always best to check or re-set all the gaps or clearances in the mechanism rather than use intuition to try and address a problem with particular adjustments.


Eric Scace
 

Thanks, Ian. You are right about the settings preventing contact — I had overlooked that. It was the slave moment that I was remembering...

On 2021 Aug 02, at 18:10 , Ian Richardson via groups.io <irichar361@...> wrote:

What you say is correct, but shouldn't be necessary as there is a buffer which limits the proximity of the armature to the pole pieces.  In my previous posting with a sketch of the settings, I mentioned as Stage 1 the setting of this as 0.01".  If this setting is correct, the armature should never make contact with the pole pieces, rendering the piece of paper unnecessary.

In the slave movements, it was common for a piece of paper to cover the face of the pole piece. In PO 3000 type relays, a brass stud was fitted to the pole face to achieve the same effect.

Best regards,

Ian R
Auvergne, France



-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Scace <eric@...>
To: synchronome <synchronome1@groups.io>
Sent: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 23:17
Subject: [synchronomeelectricclock] sticking reset

  The coil pole face should be covered with a piece of paper or electrical tape. This helps prevent the armature from sticking to the pole face due to residual magnetism.

  I’ve had good results with a circular piece of paper cut from the sticky part of a Post-It note, or from black electrical tape, using a paper hole punch as a replacement for what covered the pole face originally.

On 2021 Jul 30, at 08:22 , Andrew Nahum <andrew.nahum@...> wrote:

I have had similar sticking on occasion. It seemed to be an electromagnetic phenomenon that developed because the ‘dwell’ of the closed contacts was too long. I have found over the years that  it’s always best to check or re-set all the gaps or clearances in the mechanism rather than use intuition to try and address a problem with particular adjustments.


Ian Richardson
 

Eric,

A further point to note is that with Synchronome slave movements, the armature should ideally not touch the magnet pole face as there is an adjustable back stop.  However, the adjustment of the back stop is best used to limit the pawl to gather only one tooth of the 120 tooth wheel.  If you're lucky, that also prevents the armature from touching the pole piece, but very often a piece of paper is glued to the armature face just in case!

Cheers,
Ian R



-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Scace <eric@...>
To: synchronome <synchronome1@groups.io>
Sent: Wed, 4 Aug 2021 16:32
Subject: Re: [synchronomeelectricclock] sticking reset

Thanks, Ian. You are right about the settings preventing contact — I had overlooked that. It was the slave moment that I was remembering...

On 2021 Aug 02, at 18:10 , Ian Richardson via groups.io <irichar361@...> wrote:

What you say is correct, but shouldn't be necessary as there is a buffer which limits the proximity of the armature to the pole pieces.  In my previous posting with a sketch of the settings, I mentioned as Stage 1 the setting of this as 0.01".  If this setting is correct, the armature should never make contact with the pole pieces, rendering the piece of paper unnecessary.

In the slave movements, it was common for a piece of paper to cover the face of the pole piece. In PO 3000 type relays, a brass stud was fitted to the pole face to achieve the same effect.

Best regards,

Ian R
Auvergne, France



-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Scace <eric@...>
To: synchronome <synchronome1@groups.io>
Sent: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 23:17
Subject: [synchronomeelectricclock] sticking reset

  The coil pole face should be covered with a piece of paper or electrical tape. This helps prevent the armature from sticking to the pole face due to residual magnetism.

  I’ve had good results with a circular piece of paper cut from the sticky part of a Post-It note, or from black electrical tape, using a paper hole punch as a replacement for what covered the pole face originally.

On 2021 Jul 30, at 08:22 , Andrew Nahum <andrew.nahum@...> wrote:

I have had similar sticking on occasion. It seemed to be an electromagnetic phenomenon that developed because the ‘dwell’ of the closed contacts was too long. I have found over the years that  it’s always best to check or re-set all the gaps or clearances in the mechanism rather than use intuition to try and address a problem with particular adjustments.


John Howell
 

Ian,
One thing that has puzzled me is having set up the impulsing correctly how do you get the minute hand to land accurately on the dial battons? The hand sits on a square on the minute arbor and is imovable unless it is re-riveted.

Regards,
John H.

On 4 Aug 2021, at 22:06, Ian Richardson via groups.io <irichar361@...> wrote:

Eric,

A further point to note is that with Synchronome slave movements, the armature should ideally not touch the magnet pole face as there is an adjustable back stop.  However, the adjustment of the back stop is best used to limit the pawl to gather only one tooth of the 120 tooth wheel.  If you're lucky, that also prevents the armature from touching the pole piece, but very often a piece of paper is glued to the armature face just in case!

Cheers,
Ian R



-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Scace <eric@...>
To: synchronome <synchronome1@groups.io>
Sent: Wed, 4 Aug 2021 16:32
Subject: Re: [synchronomeelectricclock] sticking reset

Thanks, Ian. You are right about the settings preventing contact — I had overlooked that. It was the slave moment that I was remembering...

On 2021 Aug 02, at 18:10 , Ian Richardson via groups.io <irichar361@...> wrote:

What you say is correct, but shouldn't be necessary as there is a buffer which limits the proximity of the armature to the pole pieces.  In my previous posting with a sketch of the settings, I mentioned as Stage 1 the setting of this as 0.01".  If this setting is correct, the armature should never make contact with the pole pieces, rendering the piece of paper unnecessary.

In the slave movements, it was common for a piece of paper to cover the face of the pole piece. In PO 3000 type relays, a brass stud was fitted to the pole face to achieve the same effect.

Best regards,

Ian R
Auvergne, France



-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Scace <eric@...>
To: synchronome <synchronome1@groups.io>
Sent: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 23:17
Subject: [synchronomeelectricclock] sticking reset

  The coil pole face should be covered with a piece of paper or electrical tape. This helps prevent the armature from sticking to the pole face due to residual magnetism.

  I’ve had good results with a circular piece of paper cut from the sticky part of a Post-It note, or from black electrical tape, using a paper hole punch as a replacement for what covered the pole face originally.

On 2021 Jul 30, at 08:22 , Andrew Nahum <andrew.nahum@...> wrote:

I have had similar sticking on occasion. It seemed to be an electromagnetic phenomenon that developed because the ‘dwell’ of the closed contacts was too long. I have found over the years that  it’s always best to check or re-set all the gaps or clearances in the mechanism rather than use intuition to try and address a problem with particular adjustments.


Ian Richardson
 

John,

Good point.  I haven't encountered that problem often, but seem to recall that the brass bush with the square hole can be moved slightly within the hand and then secured in place with a drop of Super Glue applied from behind (out of sight).  As it happens, the pilot dial on one of my Synchronomes does exhibit a slight misalignment, but I've sort of got used to it!

Others may have other ideas.

Best regards,
Ian



-----Original Message-----
From: John Howell <j@...>
To: synchronome1@groups.io
Sent: Sat, 7 Aug 2021 0:31
Subject: Re: [synchronomeelectricclock] sticking reset

Ian,
One thing that has puzzled me is having set up the impulsing correctly how do you get the minute hand to land accurately on the dial battons? The hand sits on a square on the minute arbor and is imovable unless it is re-riveted.

Regards,
John H.

On 4 Aug 2021, at 22:06, Ian Richardson via groups.io <irichar361@...> wrote:

Eric,

A further point to note is that with Synchronome slave movements, the armature should ideally not touch the magnet pole face as there is an adjustable back stop.  However, the adjustment of the back stop is best used to limit the pawl to gather only one tooth of the 120 tooth wheel.  If you're lucky, that also prevents the armature from touching the pole piece, but very often a piece of paper is glued to the armature face just in case!

Cheers,
Ian R



-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Scace <eric@...>
To: synchronome <synchronome1@groups.io>
Sent: Wed, 4 Aug 2021 16:32
Subject: Re: [synchronomeelectricclock] sticking reset

Thanks, Ian. You are right about the settings preventing contact — I had overlooked that. It was the slave moment that I was remembering...

On 2021 Aug 02, at 18:10 , Ian Richardson via groups.io <irichar361@...> wrote:

What you say is correct, but shouldn't be necessary as there is a buffer which limits the proximity of the armature to the pole pieces.  In my previous posting with a sketch of the settings, I mentioned as Stage 1 the setting of this as 0.01".  If this setting is correct, the armature should never make contact with the pole pieces, rendering the piece of paper unnecessary.

In the slave movements, it was common for a piece of paper to cover the face of the pole piece. In PO 3000 type relays, a brass stud was fitted to the pole face to achieve the same effect.

Best regards,

Ian R
Auvergne, France



-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Scace <eric@...>
To: synchronome <synchronome1@groups.io>
Sent: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 23:17
Subject: [synchronomeelectricclock] sticking reset

  The coil pole face should be covered with a piece of paper or electrical tape. This helps prevent the armature from sticking to the pole face due to residual magnetism.

  I’ve had good results with a circular piece of paper cut from the sticky part of a Post-It note, or from black electrical tape, using a paper hole punch as a replacement for what covered the pole face originally.

On 2021 Jul 30, at 08:22 , Andrew Nahum <andrew.nahum@...> wrote:

I have had similar sticking on occasion. It seemed to be an electromagnetic phenomenon that developed because the ‘dwell’ of the closed contacts was too long. I have found over the years that  it’s always best to check or re-set all the gaps or clearances in the mechanism rather than use intuition to try and address a problem with particular adjustments.


klopschip
 

Hello John and Ian,

Usually the brass bushing in a minutes hand is riveted and can be rotated although this takes some force. I usually use a small square file in the vice and with trial and error get the tip on the battons. Actually, same goes to get the minutes hand of any clock to point at "12" when stricking the hour.

All the best
Bart

On Saturday, August 7, 2021, 1:25:13 AM GMT+2, Ian Richardson via groups.io <irichar361@...> wrote:


John,

Good point.  I haven't encountered that problem often, but seem to recall that the brass bush with the square hole can be moved slightly within the hand and then secured in place with a drop of Super Glue applied from behind (out of sight).  As it happens, the pilot dial on one of my Synchronomes does exhibit a slight misalignment, but I've sort of got used to it!

Others may have other ideas.

Best regards,
Ian



-----Original Message-----
From: John Howell <j@...>
To: synchronome1@groups.io
Sent: Sat, 7 Aug 2021 0:31
Subject: Re: [synchronomeelectricclock] sticking reset

Ian,
One thing that has puzzled me is having set up the impulsing correctly how do you get the minute hand to land accurately on the dial battons? The hand sits on a square on the minute arbor and is imovable unless it is re-riveted.

Regards,
John H.

On 4 Aug 2021, at 22:06, Ian Richardson via groups.io <irichar361@...> wrote:

Eric,

A further point to note is that with Synchronome slave movements, the armature should ideally not touch the magnet pole face as there is an adjustable back stop.  However, the adjustment of the back stop is best used to limit the pawl to gather only one tooth of the 120 tooth wheel.  If you're lucky, that also prevents the armature from touching the pole piece, but very often a piece of paper is glued to the armature face just in case!

Cheers,
Ian R



-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Scace <eric@...>
To: synchronome <synchronome1@groups.io>
Sent: Wed, 4 Aug 2021 16:32
Subject: Re: [synchronomeelectricclock] sticking reset

Thanks, Ian. You are right about the settings preventing contact — I had overlooked that. It was the slave moment that I was remembering...

On 2021 Aug 02, at 18:10 , Ian Richardson via groups.io <irichar361@...> wrote:

What you say is correct, but shouldn't be necessary as there is a buffer which limits the proximity of the armature to the pole pieces.  In my previous posting with a sketch of the settings, I mentioned as Stage 1 the setting of this as 0.01".  If this setting is correct, the armature should never make contact with the pole pieces, rendering the piece of paper unnecessary.

In the slave movements, it was common for a piece of paper to cover the face of the pole piece. In PO 3000 type relays, a brass stud was fitted to the pole face to achieve the same effect.

Best regards,

Ian R
Auvergne, France



-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Scace <eric@...>
To: synchronome <synchronome1@groups.io>
Sent: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 23:17
Subject: [synchronomeelectricclock] sticking reset

  The coil pole face should be covered with a piece of paper or electrical tape. This helps prevent the armature from sticking to the pole face due to residual magnetism.

  I’ve had good results with a circular piece of paper cut from the sticky part of a Post-It note, or from black electrical tape, using a paper hole punch as a replacement for what covered the pole face originally.

On 2021 Jul 30, at 08:22 , Andrew Nahum <andrew.nahum@...> wrote:

I have had similar sticking on occasion. It seemed to be an electromagnetic phenomenon that developed because the ‘dwell’ of the closed contacts was too long. I have found over the years that  it’s always best to check or re-set all the gaps or clearances in the mechanism rather than use intuition to try and address a problem with particular adjustments.


H Hal
 

Hold a square file (tapered) in a vice so it is pointing upwards, and slip the hand square onto the file snugly.

The collet is now secure, using both your hands hold the min hand around the collet seat and hand at the same time.

Gently turn the hand, the collet stays put but you should get some movement of the hand....and the collet stays pretty firm with no need to rivet/glue afterwards, unless the rivet has been loosened.


The main point is not to turn the hand via the hand where it may break at the root but turn by the collet surround


fingers crossed


hal

uk

On 06/08/2021 23:31, John Howell wrote:
Ian,
One thing that has puzzled me is having set up the impulsing correctly how do you get the minute hand to land accurately on the dial battons? The hand sits on a square on the minute arbor and is imovable unless it is re-riveted.

Regards,
John H.

On 4 Aug 2021, at 22:06, Ian Richardson via groups.io <irichar361@...> wrote:

Eric,

A further point to note is that with Synchronome slave movements, the armature should ideally not touch the magnet pole face as there is an adjustable back stop.  However, the adjustment of the back stop is best used to limit the pawl to gather only one tooth of the 120 tooth wheel.  If you're lucky, that also prevents the armature from touching the pole piece, but very often a piece of paper is glued to the armature face just in case!

Cheers,
Ian R



-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Scace <eric@...>
To: synchronome <synchronome1@groups.io>
Sent: Wed, 4 Aug 2021 16:32
Subject: Re: [synchronomeelectricclock] sticking reset

Thanks, Ian. You are right about the settings preventing contact — I had overlooked that. It was the slave moment that I was remembering...

On 2021 Aug 02, at 18:10 , Ian Richardson via groups.io <irichar361@...> wrote:

What you say is correct, but shouldn't be necessary as there is a buffer which limits the proximity of the armature to the pole pieces.  In my previous posting with a sketch of the settings, I mentioned as Stage 1 the setting of this as 0.01".  If this setting is correct, the armature should never make contact with the pole pieces, rendering the piece of paper unnecessary.

In the slave movements, it was common for a piece of paper to cover the face of the pole piece. In PO 3000 type relays, a brass stud was fitted to the pole face to achieve the same effect.

Best regards,

Ian R
Auvergne, France



-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Scace <eric@...>
To: synchronome <synchronome1@groups.io>
Sent: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 23:17
Subject: [synchronomeelectricclock] sticking reset

  The coil pole face should be covered with a piece of paper or electrical tape. This helps prevent the armature from sticking to the pole face due to residual magnetism.

  I’ve had good results with a circular piece of paper cut from the sticky part of a Post-It note, or from black electrical tape, using a paper hole punch as a replacement for what covered the pole face originally.

On 2021 Jul 30, at 08:22 , Andrew Nahum <andrew.nahum@...> wrote:

I have had similar sticking on occasion. It seemed to be an electromagnetic phenomenon that developed because the ‘dwell’ of the closed contacts was too long. I have found over the years that  it’s always best to check or re-set all the gaps or clearances in the mechanism rather than use intuition to try and address a problem with particular adjustments.