Date   

Re: Synchronome contacts pitted

lister53827
 

That is correct the plat. ones had a nick in the end. Clock 36 and 46 contacts were 90 plat 10 iridium.

I will (try) to attach a PDF on reforming relay contacts, it may have some relevance here.


Simon GPO clocks





On 14 Feb 2021, at 20:00pm, James Meaton via groups.io <soundhutch@...> wrote:

From what I remember the Post Office 3000 relays with the little nick in the end of the contact blades were the ones fitted with platinum contacts, but they are very small so would have to be melted down together to form a decent sized ingot.  At that time, unscrupulous scrap dealers and metal merchants used to advertise in Exchange and Mart (The Burglar’s Gazette) offering money for these relays without any reference to the fact that they were only interested in the platinum contacts! 
James Meaton



On 14 Feb 2021, at 18:51, lister53827 via groups.io <lister53827@...> wrote:

Hi All, 

Not sure if this will help, it is a GPO contact doming drawing. Some were riveted, some were not. 


Simon GPO Clocks
 

On 13 Feb 2021, at 23:20pm, Odell, Edward via groups.io <edward.odell@...> wrote:

Dear Howard
 
I have a very similar or worse pitting in an early clock in which the spark quench resistors were broken in both slave and master, presumably accelerating the deep pitting
I was thinking of just melting the solder and quickly rotating the platinum 180 degrees to bring the flat part into service. Of course you could also turn it over, with a little more work cleaning it all up, so that the pit no longer shows.  I was hoping it could just be turned quickly retaining a functional solder joint without cleaning it all up and fluxing it.
I was therefore interested to see in James’s post that later contacts were just soft soldered, so this should be relatively easy. 
I wondered whether anyone had tried it?
 
Eddy Odell
 
 
From: synchronome1@groups.io <synchronome1@groups.io> On Behalf Of bailey.services via groups.io
Sent: 13 February 2021 18:39
To: synchronome1@groups.io
Subject: [synchronomeelectricclock] Synchronome contacts
 
Hi
What is the correct fix for warn contacts, the contact on the gravity arm is pitted without a lot of meat remaining and on the armature warn down close to the thread. I have not tried the clock and of course other issues may surface but state of points is a concern. Perhaps spares are available!!
Howard 





Re: Synchronome contacts pitted

James Meaton
 

From what I remember the Post Office 3000 relays with the little nick in the end of the contact blades were the ones fitted with platinum contacts, but they are very small so would have to be melted down together to form a decent sized ingot.  At that time, unscrupulous scrap dealers and metal merchants used to advertise in Exchange and Mart (The Burglar’s Gazette) offering money for these relays without any reference to the fact that they were only interested in the platinum contacts! 
James Meaton



On 14 Feb 2021, at 18:51, lister53827 via groups.io <lister53827@...> wrote:

Hi All, 

Not sure if this will help, it is a GPO contact doming drawing. Some were riveted, some were not. 


Simon GPO Clocks
 

On 13 Feb 2021, at 23:20pm, Odell, Edward via groups.io <edward.odell@...> wrote:

Dear Howard
 
I have a very similar or worse pitting in an early clock in which the spark quench resistors were broken in both slave and master, presumably accelerating the deep pitting
I was thinking of just melting the solder and quickly rotating the platinum 180 degrees to bring the flat part into service. Of course you could also turn it over, with a little more work cleaning it all up, so that the pit no longer shows.  I was hoping it could just be turned quickly retaining a functional solder joint without cleaning it all up and fluxing it.
I was therefore interested to see in James’s post that later contacts were just soft soldered, so this should be relatively easy. 
I wondered whether anyone had tried it?
 
Eddy Odell
 
 
From: synchronome1@groups.io <synchronome1@groups.io> On Behalf Of bailey.services via groups.io
Sent: 13 February 2021 18:39
To: synchronome1@groups.io
Subject: [synchronomeelectricclock] Synchronome contacts
 
Hi
What is the correct fix for warn contacts, the contact on the gravity arm is pitted without a lot of meat remaining and on the armature warn down close to the thread. I have not tried the clock and of course other issues may surface but state of points is a concern. Perhaps spares are available!!
Howard 




Re: Synchronome contacts pitted

lister53827
 

Damn I used my internal server link sorry, try again. https://www.lightstraw.uk/gpo/clocksystems/pages/sco129.html

Some were riveted, others were welded. I guess if there is no expectancy of heat, then soldering may well work.

Simon GPO Clocks



On 14 Feb 2021, at 19:51pm, lister53827 via groups.io <lister53827@...> wrote:

Hi All, 

Not sure if this will help, it is a GPO contact doming drawing. Some were riveted, some were not. 


Simon GPO Clocks
 

On 13 Feb 2021, at 23:20pm, Odell, Edward via groups.io <edward.odell@...> wrote:

Dear Howard
 
I have a very similar or worse pitting in an early clock in which the spark quench resistors were broken in both slave and master, presumably accelerating the deep pitting
I was thinking of just melting the solder and quickly rotating the platinum 180 degrees to bring the flat part into service. Of course you could also turn it over, with a little more work cleaning it all up, so that the pit no longer shows.  I was hoping it could just be turned quickly retaining a functional solder joint without cleaning it all up and fluxing it.
I was therefore interested to see in James’s post that later contacts were just soft soldered, so this should be relatively easy. 
I wondered whether anyone had tried it?
 
Eddy Odell
 
 
From: synchronome1@groups.io <synchronome1@groups.io> On Behalf Of bailey.services via groups.io
Sent: 13 February 2021 18:39
To: synchronome1@groups.io
Subject: [synchronomeelectricclock] Synchronome contacts
 
Hi
What is the correct fix for warn contacts, the contact on the gravity arm is pitted without a lot of meat remaining and on the armature warn down close to the thread. I have not tried the clock and of course other issues may surface but state of points is a concern. Perhaps spares are available!!
Howard 




Re: Synchronome contacts pitted

lister53827
 

Hi All, 

Not sure if this will help, it is a GPO contact doming drawing. Some were riveted, some were not. 


Simon GPO Clocks
 

On 13 Feb 2021, at 23:20pm, Odell, Edward via groups.io <edward.odell@...> wrote:

Dear Howard
 
I have a very similar or worse pitting in an early clock in which the spark quench resistors were broken in both slave and master, presumably accelerating the deep pitting
I was thinking of just melting the solder and quickly rotating the platinum 180 degrees to bring the flat part into service. Of course you could also turn it over, with a little more work cleaning it all up, so that the pit no longer shows.  I was hoping it could just be turned quickly retaining a functional solder joint without cleaning it all up and fluxing it.
I was therefore interested to see in James’s post that later contacts were just soft soldered, so this should be relatively easy. 
I wondered whether anyone had tried it?
 
Eddy Odell
 
 
From: synchronome1@groups.io <synchronome1@groups.io> On Behalf Of bailey.services via groups.io
Sent: 13 February 2021 18:39
To: synchronome1@groups.io
Subject: [synchronomeelectricclock] Synchronome contacts
 
Hi
What is the correct fix for warn contacts, the contact on the gravity arm is pitted without a lot of meat remaining and on the armature warn down close to the thread. I have not tried the clock and of course other issues may surface but state of points is a concern. Perhaps spares are available!!
Howard 



Re: Synchronome contacts pitted

Odell, Edward
 

Dear Howard

 

I have a very similar or worse pitting in an early clock in which the spark quench resistors were broken in both slave and master, presumably accelerating the deep pitting

I was thinking of just melting the solder and quickly rotating the platinum 180 degrees to bring the flat part into service. Of course you could also turn it over, with a little more work cleaning it all up, so that the pit no longer shows.  I was hoping it could just be turned quickly retaining a functional solder joint without cleaning it all up and fluxing it.

I was therefore interested to see in James’s post that later contacts were just soft soldered, so this should be relatively easy. 

I wondered whether anyone had tried it?

 

Eddy Odell

 

 

From: synchronome1@groups.io <synchronome1@groups.io> On Behalf Of bailey.services via groups.io
Sent: 13 February 2021 18:39
To: synchronome1@groups.io
Subject: [synchronomeelectricclock] Synchronome contacts

 

Hi
What is the correct fix for warn contacts, the contact on the gravity arm is pitted without a lot of meat remaining and on the armature warn down close to the thread. I have not tried the clock and of course other issues may surface but state of points is a concern. Perhaps spares are available!!
Howard


Re: Synchronome contacts

James Meaton
 

When I worked in the Westbury factory this was a job where you were closely watched as the contacts were platinum.  These were fitted to the items shown on the email and to the momentary push switches on the master clock system distribution boards.  In both cases they were soft-soldered in position from what I recall.
This sure brings back a lot of memories.
The strange (worrying?) thing is even at 74 I still get dreams about the place that often are so realistic viewing details of the factory layout!  
James Meaton




Re: Synchronome contacts

bailey.services@...
 

Image of warn points


Synchronome contacts

bailey.services@...
 

Hi
What is the correct fix for warn contacts, the contact on the gravity arm is pitted without a lot of meat remaining and on the armature warn down close to the thread. I have not tried the clock and of course other issues may surface but state of points is a concern. Perhaps spares are available!!
Howard


Re: FIXING A SYNCHRONOME MASTER 1920s IN MAHOGANY CASE TO A SOLID WALL?

Odell, Edward
 

Hi

Sorry I gave the wrong URL in the first message

wp.clockdoc.org

will work

Eddy

From: synchronome1@groups.io <synchronome1@groups.io> On Behalf Of chris via groups.io
Sent: 11 February 2021 12:26
To: synchronome1@groups.io
Subject: Re: [synchronomeelectricclock] FIXING A SYNCHRONOME MASTER 1920s IN MAHOGANY CASE TO A SOLID WALL?

 

Hi Brian & Edward, Many thanks for your prompt responses and yes, I've also been chatting on the phone to Jim Kelly so I've a set of useful tips to bear in mind as I work up to fixing my Synchronome master to the wall which will be in the next few days pending the conscripted help of my partner.  The next challenge will then be hanging the pendulum and setting up the gathering arm.  I'm taking some guidance from website tvtesla.com but can't get the wpclockdoc.org to load plus masses of info in the beautiful book, Synchronome - Masters of Electrical Timekeeping by Robert Miles, 2nd Edn, 2019.  I'm discovering electric clocks demand massive patience and attention to detail! Smiles, Chris in E Sussex.


Re: FIXING A SYNCHRONOME MASTER 1920s IN MAHOGANY CASE TO A SOLID WALL?

Chris Wollaston
 

Hi Brian & Edward, Many thanks for your prompt responses and yes, I've also been chatting on the phone to Jim Kelly so I've a set of useful tips to bear in mind as I work up to fixing my Synchronome master to the wall which will be in the next few days pending the conscripted help of my partner.  The next challenge will then be hanging the pendulum and setting up the gathering arm.  I'm taking some guidance from website tvtesla.com but can't get the wpclockdoc.org to load plus masses of info in the beautiful book, Synchronome - Masters of Electrical Timekeeping by Robert Miles, 2nd Edn, 2019.  I'm discovering electric clocks demand massive patience and attention to detail! Smiles, Chris in E Sussex.


Re: FIXING A SYNCHRONOME MASTER 1920s IN MAHOGANY CASE TO A SOLID WALL?

Odell, Edward
 

Apologies Chris, in my reply the link should have been

wp.clockdoc.org

 

Eddy

 

 

From: synchronome1@groups.io <synchronome1@groups.io> On Behalf Of Odell, Edward via groups.io
Sent: 10 February 2021 20:59
To: synchronome1@groups.io
Subject: Re: [synchronomeelectricclock] FIXING A SYNCHRONOME MASTER 1920s IN MAHOGANY CASE TO A SOLID WALL?

 

EDWARD.ODELL@... appears similar to someone who previously sent you email, but may not be that person. Learn why this could be a risk

Feedback

Hi Chris,

 

congratulations on the new clock.

You will find full installation and setup instructions in the synchronome documents folder on the clockdoc website at

wpclockdoc.org

 

If you go to synchronome from the index there is a folder called synchronome documents and within that a further folder of installation, service and repair materials

 

For best accuracy your clock should be fixed to the wall through the battens on the back though many people, myself included, run clocks perfectly satisfactorily on the single hanging bracket and one stabilising screw. The hanging bracket on the back is really only designed to be used during setup to aid in getting the case vertical .  How securely you fix it depends on how much accuracy you are going for. Before fixing to the wall, also think about noise. Noise is going to travel up and down the wall (not a good idea to have the head of your bed above it) and the back of the case acts as a sound box so think about how you might fill the air space if noise is going to be a problem.

 

Good luck

 

Eddy Odell

 

 

From: synchronome1@groups.io <synchronome1@groups.io> On Behalf Of chris via groups.io
Sent: 10 February 2021 20:50
To: synchronome1@groups.io
Subject: [synchronomeelectricclock] FIXING A SYNCHRONOME MASTER 1920s IN MAHOGANY CASE TO A SOLID WALL?

 

Hi, I've just joined the synchronome1 gp and am about to fix my lovely case to the solid wall above the floor so the clock face is about at eye level.  I've read about ensuring it is absolutely 'plum' in 2 planes but am concerned about how to set the centre and suspension point on the back of the clock.  There are 3 battens already across the back of the frame of the case.  Once I have the clock 'plum true', I'd like to use 2 flat small brass D-brackets down near the base on either side to fix the case in position so that the whole case doesn't move when the door is opened.  Any tips gratefully received. Bests, Chris in E Sussex.


Re: FIXING A SYNCHRONOME MASTER 1920s IN MAHOGANY CASE TO A SOLID WALL?

Brian Cracknell
 

Meant to add the important bit about getting the case level I just used a long spirit level along the side of case and adjusted to level before marking the holes.


From: synchronome1@groups.io <synchronome1@groups.io> on behalf of chris@... <chris@...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2021 8:50:16 PM
To: synchronome1@groups.io <synchronome1@groups.io>
Subject: [synchronomeelectricclock] FIXING A SYNCHRONOME MASTER 1920s IN MAHOGANY CASE TO A SOLID WALL?
 
Hi, I've just joined the synchronome1 gp and am about to fix my lovely case to the solid wall above the floor so the clock face is about at eye level.  I've read about ensuring it is absolutely 'plum' in 2 planes but am concerned about how to set the centre and suspension point on the back of the clock.  There are 3 battens already across the back of the frame of the case.  Once I have the clock 'plum true', I'd like to use 2 flat small brass D-brackets down near the base on either side to fix the case in position so that the whole case doesn't move when the door is opened.  Any tips gratefully received. Bests, Chris in E Sussex.


Re: FIXING A SYNCHRONOME MASTER 1920s IN MAHOGANY CASE TO A SOLID WALL?

Brian Cracknell
 

Hi Chris,
Unless the wall is wonky the first plane will more or less take care of itself. For the side to side plane, use the hanging hook on the back of the case to get it supported temporarily  and then drill four holes into the wall through the holes already present in those battens, take the clock off again, enlarge the holes and fit rawlplugs. Then put the clock back on, perhaps fitting felt to the back of the battens to reduce vibration and then screw up tight with brass screws. There is no need for any additional brackets. The tighter the fixing, the more accurate will be the clock. Regards Brian


From: synchronome1@groups.io <synchronome1@groups.io> on behalf of chris@... <chris@...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2021 8:50:16 PM
To: synchronome1@groups.io <synchronome1@groups.io>
Subject: [synchronomeelectricclock] FIXING A SYNCHRONOME MASTER 1920s IN MAHOGANY CASE TO A SOLID WALL?
 
Hi, I've just joined the synchronome1 gp and am about to fix my lovely case to the solid wall above the floor so the clock face is about at eye level.  I've read about ensuring it is absolutely 'plum' in 2 planes but am concerned about how to set the centre and suspension point on the back of the clock.  There are 3 battens already across the back of the frame of the case.  Once I have the clock 'plum true', I'd like to use 2 flat small brass D-brackets down near the base on either side to fix the case in position so that the whole case doesn't move when the door is opened.  Any tips gratefully received. Bests, Chris in E Sussex.


Re: FIXING A SYNCHRONOME MASTER 1920s IN MAHOGANY CASE TO A SOLID WALL?

Odell, Edward
 

Hi Chris,

 

congratulations on the new clock.

You will find full installation and setup instructions in the synchronome documents folder on the clockdoc website at

wpclockdoc.org

 

If you go to synchronome from the index there is a folder called synchronome documents and within that a further folder of installation, service and repair materials

 

For best accuracy your clock should be fixed to the wall through the battens on the back though many people, myself included, run clocks perfectly satisfactorily on the single hanging bracket and one stabilising screw. The hanging bracket on the back is really only designed to be used during setup to aid in getting the case vertical .  How securely you fix it depends on how much accuracy you are going for. Before fixing to the wall, also think about noise. Noise is going to travel up and down the wall (not a good idea to have the head of your bed above it) and the back of the case acts as a sound box so think about how you might fill the air space if noise is going to be a problem.

 

Good luck

 

Eddy Odell

 

 

From: synchronome1@groups.io <synchronome1@groups.io> On Behalf Of chris via groups.io
Sent: 10 February 2021 20:50
To: synchronome1@groups.io
Subject: [synchronomeelectricclock] FIXING A SYNCHRONOME MASTER 1920s IN MAHOGANY CASE TO A SOLID WALL?

 

Hi, I've just joined the synchronome1 gp and am about to fix my lovely case to the solid wall above the floor so the clock face is about at eye level.  I've read about ensuring it is absolutely 'plum' in 2 planes but am concerned about how to set the centre and suspension point on the back of the clock.  There are 3 battens already across the back of the frame of the case.  Once I have the clock 'plum true', I'd like to use 2 flat small brass D-brackets down near the base on either side to fix the case in position so that the whole case doesn't move when the door is opened.  Any tips gratefully received. Bests, Chris in E Sussex.


FIXING A SYNCHRONOME MASTER 1920s IN MAHOGANY CASE TO A SOLID WALL?

Chris Wollaston
 

Hi, I've just joined the synchronome1 gp and am about to fix my lovely case to the solid wall above the floor so the clock face is about at eye level.  I've read about ensuring it is absolutely 'plum' in 2 planes but am concerned about how to set the centre and suspension point on the back of the clock.  There are 3 battens already across the back of the frame of the case.  Once I have the clock 'plum true', I'd like to use 2 flat small brass D-brackets down near the base on either side to fix the case in position so that the whole case doesn't move when the door is opened.  Any tips gratefully received. Bests, Chris in E Sussex.


Re: Group Focus

John Haine
 

Just a little update to the results for the latest clock, here are results from the last 10 days since making another adjustment to the digital compensation values.  That was based on observations over the previous 24 days since the last adjustment, and using what I have finally worked out as the correct algorithm!  So now the controller sends a pulse to the dial every second except for the 132nd; except in turn for 134 cycles of 132 when it does, if you see what I mean.


According to the spreadsheet where I record the values, the displayed time rate is now -0.0121 s/day so may be very slightly overcompensated.  The clock has a setting error of about +1.5 seconds.  Given there is at least a +- 1 sec sampling error in the readings I think it's not bad now, so it can just run for a few weeks as it is.  The only slight snag is that it uses my Linux laptop as a "UPS" so I have to keep that running, otherwise the clock stops when we get a power outage.


Re: Master Clock contact spark quenching

Thomas D. Erb
 

I believe Mercury wetted contact relays also solve this problem.


Re: Master Clock contact spark quenching

Simon Taylor
 

I did post this further up the thread...

 

"All of the contacts are made of 10% iridium and 90% platinum. The hipp toggle contacts pass between 400-500mA for the pendulum drive coil. Although running a GPO slave cct direct it is quite possible, I would still recommend using either traditional relay (coil 2000-5000 ohms) or a solid state device or arduino system."
Simon GPO Clocks
It was only after several years of service that the GPO switched to standard relays with a 5000 ohm coil, but the contact specifications never changed in case a replacement PO36 were to be installed on an earlier system with the 90A relays.

http://www.lightstraw.uk/gpo/clocksystems/index.html


Re: Synchronome battery life

John Hubert
 

Howard, your clock would date to circa 1935 - but you probably kew that anyway!

John

On 15 Jan 2021, at 19:11, bailey.services via groups.io <bailey.services@...> wrote:

#2054 is very much standard, coils green, finish crackle, buffer yes, case oak flat top, pilot no 1. type small movement. I've no idea what Roller wire/plate refers to! 

Clockdoc website interesting resource, many thanks.
Howard


Re: Synchronome battery life

bailey.services@...
 

#2054 is very much standard, coils green, finish crackle, buffer yes, case oak flat top, pilot no 1. type small movement. I've no idea what Roller wire/plate refers to! 

Clockdoc website interesting resource, many thanks.
Howard

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