Date   

Re: Group Focus

brian@...
 

Lovely looking clock John and sounds pretty interesting. Any results on the time keeping accuracy yet?
Brian


Re: Wiring connections in early master clocks

Neville Michie
 

Hi Stephen,
Could you tell me the serial number of your Synchronome?
I have one with an identical latch, but it must have been sold
as a bare movement, because it was re-cased and has no serial number.
Somewhere there is a graph of number vs date so I could then date my clock,
thanks,
Neville Michie

Sydney.

On 7 Dec 2020, at 21:52, stephen@smcdonnellwatches.co.uk wrote:

Yes your clock looks great.
There is a company here in Belfast which makes old-style braided cable in about 70 colours. I have bought it in the past, and it is excellent:
https://flexform.co.uk/product-category/braided-cables/fabric-braided/braided-twisted-cable/
Click on the 0.5sqmm ones, and then look at the colour chart.

The same stuff is also available online from many sellers. Do a Google search for "vintage braided fabric flex cable", and you will find loads.

I recently restored a Synchronome clock from about 1920 - post WW1 austerity model. Complete restoration of movement, including light blasting and repainting of base-plate, as the whole thing was rusty and had been dreadfully repainted in the past, so there was nothing else for it. It had also lost all of its original wiring, so I decided to go to town with the wiring, and yellow is my wife's favourite colour (this way she let's me have it in the kitchen!!). Not one for the purists, sorry, but everything has been restored just as it should be, and the wiring could easily be changed for something more understated if required! See below...

Also, somebody mentioned the little wire which disappears behind the bottom coil. This clock has exactly the same thing. I found that this little wire actually goes to a secondary small coil behind the base-plate, which is connected in parallel with the main coils. The function of this wasn't really clear to me - maybe some sort of early attempt at spark-quenching?

Stephen<IMG_1341.JPG>


Re: Wiring connections in early master clocks

John Hubert
 

It looks a very nice original clock.



On 7 Dec 2020, at 17:07, a1962r@... wrote:

Thank you all for your quick responses, it's so nice to hear from you all. 
I have taken a couple more pics of the inside of the clock which I will post with this reply, as you will see there is a terminal block fixed on the right of the pendulum and 2 small screws to the left which I believe to be redundant but may have held a terminal block too. The small plastic block (its a momentary contact switch) to the right of the pendulum and below the electrical connector, is I believe a crude attempt at an advance switch. I will get some purple/crimson cloth covered cable as that will make it look closer to the original and do away with these crude connector blocks. Everyone's thoughts on this are welcome please.
The case, all I have done is cleaned it with a mild detergent on a damp cloth to clean off the top layer of muck. <20201207_073752.jpg><20201207_073658.jpg><20201207_073705.jpg><20201207_072541.jpg><20201116_195839.jpg><20201116_203052.jpg><20201116_195833.jpg><20201116_203044.jpg><20201116_231100.jpg>


Re: Wiring connections in early master clocks

Andrew Robinson
 

Thank you all for your quick responses, it's so nice to hear from you all. 
I have taken a couple more pics of the inside of the clock which I will post with this reply, as you will see there is a terminal block fixed on the right of the pendulum and 2 small screws to the left which I believe to be redundant but may have held a terminal block too. The small plastic block (its a momentary contact switch) to the right of the pendulum and below the electrical connector, is I believe a crude attempt at an advance switch. I will get some purple/crimson cloth covered cable as that will make it look closer to the original and do away with these crude connector blocks. Everyone's thoughts on this are welcome please.
The case, all I have done is cleaned it with a mild detergent on a damp cloth to clean off the top layer of muck.


Re: Wiring connections in early master clocks

Chris
 

The spring clip in the foreground is/was similar to my own.
Used as a wire supporting guide rather than electrical.
My own clock has the thinner wire going back to the wire-wound resistor behind the main plate.

Arthur Mitchel and I discussed my [rather unlikely] red wiring covering and he agreed it was probably original.
Not sure Arthur would have approved of yellow flex though. 😉

https://youtu.be/mAJXcxCS3G4

Chris.B


On 07/12/2020 12:09, John Hubert wrote:
The small ‘coil’ behind the plate is a wire wound resistor in parallel with the coil - just as you say, for spark suppression.  Resistance is roughly 10 x the coil value.  Similar resistors are used on all Synchronome slave movements, varying between a variety of wire wound types through carbon types to finally metal film types.

John

On 7 Dec 2020, at 10:52, stephen@... wrote:

Yes your clock looks great.
There is a company here in Belfast which makes old-style braided cable in about 70 colours. I have bought it in the past, and it is excellent:
https://flexform.co.uk/product-category/braided-cables/fabric-braided/braided-twisted-cable/
Click on the 0.5sqmm ones, and then look at the colour chart. 

The same stuff is also available online from many sellers. Do a Google search for "vintage braided fabric flex cable", and you will find loads.

I recently restored a Synchronome clock from about 1920 - post WW1 austerity model. Complete restoration of movement, including light blasting and repainting of base-plate, as the whole thing was rusty and had been dreadfully repainted in the past, so there was nothing else for it. It had also lost all of its original wiring, so I decided to go to town with the wiring, and yellow is my wife's favourite colour (this way she let's me have it in the kitchen!!). Not one for the purists, sorry, but everything has been restored just as it should be, and the wiring could easily be changed for something more understated if required! See below...

Also, somebody mentioned the little wire which disappears behind the bottom coil. This clock has exactly the same thing. I found that this little wire actually goes to a secondary small coil behind the base-plate, which is connected in parallel with the main coils. The function of this wasn't really clear to me - maybe some sort of early attempt at spark-quenching?

Stephen<IMG_1341.JPG>


Re: Wiring connections in early master clocks

John Hubert
 

The small ‘coil’ behind the plate is a wire wound resistor in parallel with the coil - just as you say, for spark suppression.  Resistance is roughly 10 x the coil value.  Similar resistors are used on all Synchronome slave movements, varying between a variety of wire wound types through carbon types to finally metal film types.

John

On 7 Dec 2020, at 10:52, stephen@... wrote:

Yes your clock looks great.
There is a company here in Belfast which makes old-style braided cable in about 70 colours. I have bought it in the past, and it is excellent:
https://flexform.co.uk/product-category/braided-cables/fabric-braided/braided-twisted-cable/
Click on the 0.5sqmm ones, and then look at the colour chart. 

The same stuff is also available online from many sellers. Do a Google search for "vintage braided fabric flex cable", and you will find loads.

I recently restored a Synchronome clock from about 1920 - post WW1 austerity model. Complete restoration of movement, including light blasting and repainting of base-plate, as the whole thing was rusty and had been dreadfully repainted in the past, so there was nothing else for it. It had also lost all of its original wiring, so I decided to go to town with the wiring, and yellow is my wife's favourite colour (this way she let's me have it in the kitchen!!). Not one for the purists, sorry, but everything has been restored just as it should be, and the wiring could easily be changed for something more understated if required! See below...

Also, somebody mentioned the little wire which disappears behind the bottom coil. This clock has exactly the same thing. I found that this little wire actually goes to a secondary small coil behind the base-plate, which is connected in parallel with the main coils. The function of this wasn't really clear to me - maybe some sort of early attempt at spark-quenching?

Stephen<IMG_1341.JPG>


Re: Wiring connections in early master clocks

stephen@...
 

Yes your clock looks great.
There is a company here in Belfast which makes old-style braided cable in about 70 colours. I have bought it in the past, and it is excellent:
https://flexform.co.uk/product-category/braided-cables/fabric-braided/braided-twisted-cable/
Click on the 0.5sqmm ones, and then look at the colour chart. 

The same stuff is also available online from many sellers. Do a Google search for "vintage braided fabric flex cable", and you will find loads.

I recently restored a Synchronome clock from about 1920 - post WW1 austerity model. Complete restoration of movement, including light blasting and repainting of base-plate, as the whole thing was rusty and had been dreadfully repainted in the past, so there was nothing else for it. It had also lost all of its original wiring, so I decided to go to town with the wiring, and yellow is my wife's favourite colour (this way she let's me have it in the kitchen!!). Not one for the purists, sorry, but everything has been restored just as it should be, and the wiring could easily be changed for something more understated if required! See below...

Also, somebody mentioned the little wire which disappears behind the bottom coil. This clock has exactly the same thing. I found that this little wire actually goes to a secondary small coil behind the base-plate, which is connected in parallel with the main coils. The function of this wasn't really clear to me - maybe some sort of early attempt at spark-quenching?

Stephen


Re: Group Focus

John Haine
 


Picture of the new clock.  Half-second pendulum maintained with coil sensing magnet in the end of the rod, controlled by Arduino Nano with only 4  extra passive components.  Pendulum amplitude controlled by a Hall effect sensor.  Time displayed by modified quartz movement, with connections direct to stepper motor from Arduino.


Re: Group Focus

John Haine
 

Bepi, it should definitely embrace double-pendulum clocks like your project!  Close to my heart as well, I would be building one now except that I got interested in Fedchenko's EM impulsing.  Something slightly similar is already used in my second clock, and Bryan Mumford shows several nice examples on his website and there also others around on the web.  Fedchenko's original system is harder to make but can apply a central impulse at a time that is geometrically defined by the construction.  

I looked at the other IO site which seems to be still called "synchronome" and doesn't have many posts, the latest being October last year.


Re: Wiring connections in early master clocks

Peter Torry
 

Good morning,

A very nice looking clock and I am sure that it will be an asset to your collection.  In the UK I use https://www.wires.co.uk/acatalog/index.html for various types of wire and their cotton covered wire can be dyed using a direct dystuff to the requires colour and then blow some dust over it to complete the ageing.

Regards

Peter

UK

On 07/12/2020 07:34, a1962r@... wrote:
I have recently purchased Master clock #521 & I am looking to restore the wiring and connections back as close as I can to when it would have been first sold. 
1. Where can I buy multi strand wire with a purple cloth covering from?
2. Could anyone with a similar aged clock post pictures of the upper area of the inside of the case showing the connection terminals or whatever was used.
3. Looking to buy a Dykes Bros slave clock to run with the master when its finished, if anyone has a spare they would be willing to sell.
Thank you.


Re: Wiring connections in early master clocks

Brian Cracknell
 
Edited

That is a great clock. I can't help on the replacement wiring itself but out of interest, do you think the wire from the bottom of the armature follows its original factory-installed route or would it originally have ended in an "earthing" point screwed into the chassis an inch or so to the left of the armature mounting? Is there any evidence of a filled-in hole on the chassis suggesting this? I am intrigued because most examples seem to have this set up but my own 1923 version follows the same route as your clock with the wire disappearing up behind the bottom coil. I do wonder about this difference and whether it was an evolution or a later modification or what? 

will you retain yours "as is" in this respect?

Regards
Brian


From: synchronome1@groups.io <synchronome1@groups.io> on behalf of a1962r@... <a1962r@...>
Sent: 07 December 2020 07:34
To: synchronome1@groups.io <synchronome1@groups.io>
Subject: [synchronomeelectricclock] Wiring connections in early master clocks
 
I have recently purchased Master clock #521 & I am looking to restore the wiring and connections back as close as I can to when it would have been first sold. 
1. Where can I buy multi strand wire with a purple cloth covering from?
2. Could anyone with a similar aged clock post pictures of the upper area of the inside of the case showing the connection terminals or whatever was used.
3. Looking to buy a Dykes Bros slave clock to run with the master when its finished, if anyone has a spare they would be willing to sell.
Thank you.


Re: Wiring connections in early master clocks

Chris
 

Nice clock! Looks completely unspoiled so far. Do leave some well deserved age on it.
Don't spoil it yourself with heavy-handed cleaning or amateur restoration.
There are specialist case polishes designed to revive rather than achieve a factory fresh resurrection.

My later, 1920 clock has a simple, sprung, double clip in the top of the case.

Look for "purple fabric covered stranded flex."
Most stockists carry hideously gaudy stuff for reproduction lighting.
I suppose you could give it a daily dose of UV under an old fashioned sunlamp to age it.
Oddly enough, if you are in the US, then Walmart flex looks nearest to my original.

Chris.B


On 07/12/2020 08:34, a1962r@... wrote:
I have recently purchased Master clock #521 & I am looking to restore the wiring and connections back as close as I can to when it would have been first sold. 
1. Where can I buy multi strand wire with a purple cloth covering from?
2. Could anyone with a similar aged clock post pictures of the upper area of the inside of the case showing the connection terminals or whatever was used.
3. Looking to buy a Dykes Bros slave clock to run with the master when its finished, if anyone has a spare they would be willing to sell.
Thank you.


Wiring connections in early master clocks

Andrew Robinson
 
Edited

I have recently purchased Master clock #521 & I am looking to restore the wiring and connections back as close as I can to when it would have been first sold. 
1. Where can I buy multi strand wire with a purple cloth covering from?
2. Could anyone with a similar aged clock post pictures of the upper area of the inside of the case showing the connection terminals or whatever was used.
3. Looking to buy a Dykes Bros slave clock to run with the master when its finished, if anyone has a spare they would be willing to sell.
Thank you.


Re: Group Focus

Darren Conway
 

Hi

How about:

pendulum clocks powered with electricity.

This opens it up to any clock where the time keeping is based on a swinging mass.  It includes nomes, custom electronics, Hipps etc etc.


Regards

Darren Conway


On 7.12.20 3:23 am, Daniel Benson wrote:
I'm open to the idea of expanding the focus beyond Synchronome, but well defined within Em clocks.

Virus-free. www.avast.com


Show and tell. an electric carriage clock slave.

James Kelly
 


If any member wishes to post images of about particular clock they own, and give us a little bit of its history or ask a question about anything they are unsure of regarding their clock then I hope they will share with it us.

I have a small electric carriage clock of the slave type clock which I purchased some years ago , I have it running here at home using a modern slave clock impulse unit, many years ago on the old yahoo site I asked about this early clock, it was suggested that that it was possibly made by Milde of France, it is most unusual in that it has a an illuminated dial and is beautifully made, it possible dates from 1860's.

I've attached some images which I hope may stimulate your interest.

I welcome any thoughts or comments the members may have. 

Regards

Jim


Re: Group Focus

James Kelly
 

Hi Ian,

There are probably members here who don't belong to both groups, and I myself have often posted the same question on both groups, so I don't see that there will be a duplication of things, also there has been very little activity on the electric clock group site as well, its probably because we are mostly middle aged or retired. I have no problem with any posts the members wish to put up, it will be interesting to see what comes of it.

Regards

Jim


Re: Group Focus

Ian Richardson
 

Surely there is little point in duplicating stuff.  As Eddy pointed out, there is already a perfectly good, and well supported IO group covering all aspects of electric clocks, including (naturally) Synchronome, and all sorts of others whether commercially produced or experimentally made individual clocks.

Ian R
Macclesfield, UK
(presently in France)



-----Original Message-----
From: Odell, Edward via groups.io <edward.odell@...>
To: synchronome1@groups.io <synchronome1@groups.io>
Sent: Sun, 6 Dec 2020 14:43
Subject: Re: [synchronomeelectricclock] Group Focus

There is also another group
covering other electromagnetic clocks, with members in common between the two
Eddy Odell
 
From: synchronome1@groups.io <synchronome1@groups.io> On Behalf Of jmfranke via groups.io
Sent: 06 December 2020 13:02
To: synchronome1@groups.io; John Haine <john.haine@...>
Subject: Re: [synchronomeelectricclock] Group Focus
 
I would very much like to see an expansion such as you suggest.
John Franke
On December 6, 2020 at 4:51 AM John Haine <john.haine@...> wrote:

I wonder if I could make a modest proposal for the focus of this group?  I joined about 2 years ago, moving across from the old Yahoo group, and over the past couple of years have found it very interesting and useful.  I see that the frequency of posting has fallen off a lot in recent months, I'm not sure why this is though there have been distracting things going on in real life! 

I have posted quite a lot about my own clock as I got it built and working - it's now reached the boring phase where it just sits on the wall and keeps time pretty well.  Meanwhile I've built another clock, not on 'Nome principles at all (though it is electromagnetic), and I'm just starting on a third inspired by the Fedchenko EM clock.

So should we broaden the focus of this group to include other EM (pendulum?) clocks, either being made or restored/collected?

 


Re: Group Focus

James Kelly
 

Hi All

As the owner and moderator of the site I have no objections to posts about any make or model of electric clock, members of the original yahoo group will recall that there was always questions being asked about electro-mechanical clocks of all types.

Further take a quick look in the photos section and you will see files with clocks by makers other than Synchronome.

The stated aim of this group has always been as follows and this can be seen on the home page, 

Welcome to the Synchronome1 electric clock group. This group is run by enthusiasts and is concerned with issues relating to electric clocks: Precise, accurate, domestic and industrial. 

It just remains for you all to post and ask questions regarding any type of elctro-mechanical clock, be it technical or historical or restoration, adjustment, just post and ask away.

One final word, I hope everyone has managed to stay safe during the pandemic, and with the additional free time you may have enjoyed I hope you have been working on your clocks and enjoying them as you should

All the best

Jim Kelly
 


Re: Group Focus

Bepi
 

John, I approve your proposal of course, I am building an EM pulsed double pendulum right now, will they be included too in your change of focus? Even if they go back to Huygens and not Galileo like the others, double penduli will never have a forum on their own, right now it feels terribly lonely.
Thinking along those lines I was asking myself what would have been the dream forum given my interests and what you are proposing is very close but excludes the community of precision regulators. According to me the extraordinary new diagnostic opportunities offered by quartz clocked processors is what nowadays propels most of the interest, and developments, in precision EM, and mechanical, escapements. Wouldn't be wonderful to unite everybody interested in both these fields under the same ombrella given that the tools of the trade, both theory and practice, are the same? Another problem which interests me is the one of rejuvenating the pool and entering the word computer may help. I have noticed something similar happening with electronics/radio amateurs. 
p.-

On Dec 6, 2020, at 10:51, John Haine <john.haine@...> wrote:

I wonder if I could make a modest proposal for the focus of this group?  I joined about 2 years ago, moving across from the old Yahoo group, and over the past couple of years have found it very interesting and useful.  I see that the frequency of posting has fallen off a lot in recent months, I'm not sure why this is though there have been distracting things going on in real life! 

I have posted quite a lot about my own clock as I got it built and working - it's now reached the boring phase where it just sits on the wall and keeps time pretty well.  Meanwhile I've built another clock, not on 'Nome principles at all (though it is electromagnetic), and I'm just starting on a third inspired by the Fedchenko EM clock.

So should we broaden the focus of this group to include other EM (pendulum?) clocks, either being made or restored/collected?


--
Bepi


Re: Group Focus

Daniel Benson
 

I'm open to the idea of expanding the focus beyond Synchronome, but well defined within Em clocks.

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