Date   

Re: GMT adjustment

John Hubert
 

The Synchronome distribution board does exactly that.  I put back my system yesterday (about 30 dials in 6 circuits via a 6 channel distribution board.  I switched all 6 dial circuits to “ADVANCE”, but didn’t press the button for the advance pulses.  The pendulum and count wheel/gravity arm continue to run, but the dials don’t advance.  After exactly 1 hour, all switches are returned to “NORMAL” and thats it.  Job done.

John

On 31 Oct 2021, at 17:27, Brian Cracknell <brcracknell@...> wrote:

Hello,
After this morning's adjustment of the synchronome for GMT (which i did with the traditional method of stopping the pendulum and waiting an hour), I wondered out of curiosity if anyone had devised any clever ways to avoid stopping and starting the pendulum? For my Gents C7 I previously made a bypass circuit containing a couple of switches at each end and resistors equal to the value of all the clock dials in circuit. Then, for the hour of adjustment, the clock kept running but the current was directed through the resistors instead of the dials. I have not added this to the Synchronome because it was clumsy and unsightly but now that my Synchronome is keeping such good time it was a shame this morning to interrupt its regularity. Has anybody built something unobtrusive and elegant for this purpose or did the company originally offer some handy gadget? (The NRA function on the clock seems completely hopeless for this purpose - as with the C7 as I recall!)
Regards
Brian


GMT adjustment

Brian Cracknell
 

Hello,
After this morning's adjustment of the synchronome for GMT (which i did with the traditional method of stopping the pendulum and waiting an hour), I wondered out of curiosity if anyone had devised any clever ways to avoid stopping and starting the pendulum? For my Gents C7 I previously made a bypass circuit containing a couple of switches at each end and resistors equal to the value of all the clock dials in circuit. Then, for the hour of adjustment, the clock kept running but the current was directed through the resistors instead of the dials. I have not added this to the Synchronome because it was clumsy and unsightly but now that my Synchronome is keeping such good time it was a shame this morning to interrupt its regularity. Has anybody built something unobtrusive and elegant for this purpose or did the company originally offer some handy gadget? (The NRA function on the clock seems completely hopeless for this purpose - as with the C7 as I recall!)
Regards
Brian


Gillett and Johnston Master clock

Philip Green
 

Hello,
Can anyone help me please?
I am working on my G & J master clock after 5 years in storage ( the clock not me!). Apart from a rusted solid screw, which had to be drilled out, the wiring to the gravity arm and armature,which never were in good condition, now require replacing. I see in the write up by Arthur Mitchell that they should be "flat spiral springs colleted to their arbors adjacent to the back pivots". On my clock they were green cotton covered 14? stranded wire screwed in place on top of the gravity arm and armature.
Were changes made to these connections?
Does any one have any details of these springs?
And finally if the wire was a replacement can anyone help me with a supplier?
Thank you.
Phil


Re: ESP32 Wifi Clock Driver

Darren Conway
 

Hi

The answer from me is: no, not yet.

The code for conveying ticks is the easy part.  Most of the code will be for things like:

  • day light saving adjustments,
  • configuring Wifi
  • exception/error handling 

My moto on these sorts of home projects is:

Why make things simple when you can make them really complicated AND get them to work!


Regards

Darren Conway
Lower Hutt
New Zealand
ph +64  (0)4 569 1963

On 29.10.21 10:06 pm, John Haine via groups.io wrote:
All these are hardware - please could anyone post links to code for conveying "ticks"? 

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Re: ESP32 Wifi Clock Driver

John Haine
 

All these are hardware - please could anyone post links to code for conveying "ticks"? 


Re: ESP32 Wifi Clock Driver

Darren Conway
 

Hi

I didn't know about Lilygo.  It is definitely a very capable and adaptable item, but the price and capability are more than I am looking for.  A basic ESP32 is enough.


Regards

Darren Conway
Lower Hutt
New Zealand


On 29.10.21 2:35 pm, neil wrote:
Try the Lilygo. It is very powerful.
Neil Jepsen. B.Sc. M.Sc(Hons).CPL.MASNZ.
Jepsen Acoustics & Electronics Ltd
22 Domain Street
Palmerston North.
New Zealand.
Ph +64 6 3577539  Mob 0274428094
Web site: www.noiseandweather.co.nz
          www.noiseandweather.com
E.& O.E.
On 29/10/2021 02:30 pm, Darren Conway wrote:

Hi

I have used XBees extensively but they are a lot more expensive than a E32 microcontroler.   

I am looking at using an ESP32-S2 version with an internal/external antenna connection.  This includes full USB driver so easy to plug-in and configure Wifi connection.



Regards

Darren Conway
New Zealand


On 28.10.21 10:50 pm, Morris Odell wrote:
I have used a device called an XBee for this sort of thing. If you set two of them up properly they are a transparent link where you feed pulses into the sender and they come out the other end from the receiver. There's a whole range with different powers and capabilities and even the weakest should have enough range to cover a typical house. All you need is a +3.3 volt supply and simple voltage interfacing circuitry at each end.

I use a XBee network to distribute GPS signals throughout my basement where GPS controlled clocks can't see enough satellite signals to function.

You can find them on the net and they are not too expensive.

Morris

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Re: ESP32 Wifi Clock Driver

neil
 

Try the Lilygo. It is very powerful.
Neil Jepsen. B.Sc. M.Sc(Hons).CPL.MASNZ.
Jepsen Acoustics & Electronics Ltd
22 Domain Street
Palmerston North.
New Zealand.
Ph +64 6 3577539  Mob 0274428094
Web site: www.noiseandweather.co.nz
          www.noiseandweather.com  
E.& O.E.
On 29/10/2021 02:30 pm, Darren Conway wrote:

Hi

I have used XBees extensively but they are a lot more expensive than a E32 microcontroler.   

I am looking at using an ESP32-S2 version with an internal/external antenna connection.  This includes full USB driver so easy to plug-in and configure Wifi connection.



Regards

Darren Conway
New Zealand


On 28.10.21 10:50 pm, Morris Odell wrote:
I have used a device called an XBee for this sort of thing. If you set two of them up properly they are a transparent link where you feed pulses into the sender and they come out the other end from the receiver. There's a whole range with different powers and capabilities and even the weakest should have enough range to cover a typical house. All you need is a +3.3 volt supply and simple voltage interfacing circuitry at each end.

I use a XBee network to distribute GPS signals throughout my basement where GPS controlled clocks can't see enough satellite signals to function.

You can find them on the net and they are not too expensive.

Morris

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Re: ESP32 Wifi Clock Driver

Darren Conway
 

Hi

I have used XBees extensively but they are a lot more expensive than a E32 microcontroler.   

I am looking at using an ESP32-S2 version with an internal/external antenna connection.  This includes full USB driver so easy to plug-in and configure Wifi connection.



Regards

Darren Conway
New Zealand


On 28.10.21 10:50 pm, Morris Odell wrote:
I have used a device called an XBee for this sort of thing. If you set two of them up properly they are a transparent link where you feed pulses into the sender and they come out the other end from the receiver. There's a whole range with different powers and capabilities and even the weakest should have enough range to cover a typical house. All you need is a +3.3 volt supply and simple voltage interfacing circuitry at each end.

I use a XBee network to distribute GPS signals throughout my basement where GPS controlled clocks can't see enough satellite signals to function.

You can find them on the net and they are not too expensive.

Morris

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Re: ESP32 Wifi Clock Driver

Morris Odell
 

I have used a device called an XBee for this sort of thing. If you set two of them up properly they are a transparent link where you feed pulses into the sender and they come out the other end from the receiver. There's a whole range with different powers and capabilities and even the weakest should have enough range to cover a typical house. All you need is a +3.3 volt supply and simple voltage interfacing circuitry at each end.

I use a XBee network to distribute GPS signals throughout my basement where GPS controlled clocks can't see enough satellite signals to function.

You can find them on the net and they are not too expensive.

Morris


Re: ESP32 Wifi Clock Driver

Darren Conway
 

Hi

I am thinking of replacing the wires between the master and the slaves with Wifi.  This will also mean that the slaves can optionally be pulsed from ultra accurate atomic clocks connected to the Internet. 


Regards

Darren Conway
36 Orr Crescent
Lower Hutt
New Zealand
ph +64  (0)4 569 1963

On 28.10.21 10:07 am, Philip Gladstone wrote:
I had a ESP8266 solution but the board that I made was a bit janky and has now failed after a couple of years. I'm not quite sure what went wrong, but the 3.3V rail is much lower than 3.3V!

Philip

On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 4:11 PM Darren Conway <darren.conway@...> wrote:

Hi

I am looking at the problem of connecting my master clock to my slave clocks at the other end of the house.    I also have a Solari slave flip clock that requires a bi-polar 48V pulse every 60 seconds.

I was working on an Arduino based solution to connect between the master and slave clocks.  I am now looking at the ESP32 for a wireless solution.

I think I recall someone else had selected an ESP32 solution. 


Regards

Darren Conway
Lower Hutt
New Zealand



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Re: ESP32 Wifi Clock Driver

Philip Gladstone
 

I had a ESP8266 solution but the board that I made was a bit janky and has now failed after a couple of years. I'm not quite sure what went wrong, but the 3.3V rail is much lower than 3.3V!

Philip

On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 4:11 PM Darren Conway <darren.conway@...> wrote:

Hi

I am looking at the problem of connecting my master clock to my slave clocks at the other end of the house.    I also have a Solari slave flip clock that requires a bi-polar 48V pulse every 60 seconds.

I was working on an Arduino based solution to connect between the master and slave clocks.  I am now looking at the ESP32 for a wireless solution.

I think I recall someone else had selected an ESP32 solution. 


Regards

Darren Conway
Lower Hutt
New Zealand



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ESP32 Wifi Clock Driver

Darren Conway
 

Hi

I am looking at the problem of connecting my master clock to my slave clocks at the other end of the house.    I also have a Solari slave flip clock that requires a bi-polar 48V pulse every 60 seconds.

I was working on an Arduino based solution to connect between the master and slave clocks.  I am now looking at the ESP32 for a wireless solution.

I think I recall someone else had selected an ESP32 solution. 


Regards

Darren Conway
Lower Hutt
New Zealand



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Re: searching for synchronome resistance(s)

Markus
 

Hallo alle,
this is right - I'm searching for the current limiting resistors. The ones for the spark supression (Funkenlöschung) are built in.
But now I''ve learned something new about spark quenching  - and a few new english words.
Have a nice evening.
Markus


New reprint of Synchronome - Masters of Electrical Timekeeping

James Nye
 

Dear All,

 

I suspect that many already have a copy, but so that you are all aware (and please do spread the word) the AHS has just received 300 new copies of this book, having arranged a reprint of the revised second edition of Bob Miles’ definitive study of Synchronome. The reprint is identical to the last edition, save for the cover being rendered in a different colour, and of course the imprint page being updated. See

 

https://www.ahsoc.org/shop/books/synchronome/

 

The base price for the book is just £25, to which you will need to add postage and packing – which means a total of £32.50 in the UK. I very much regret that packing and posting a heavy book such as this and sending it much further round the world increases the cost a fair bit, but this is an invaluable reference work if you have one or more of the clocks, or if you have any interest in Synchronome and the broader world of electrical horology.

 

That must be a Christmas present solved for lots of you, surely?

 

With best wishes,

 

James Nye (AHS Chair)


Re: Sources of Mechanical Power Loss in Synchronome Movement

Bepi
 

On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 04:23 PM, markotime wrote:
I apologize if I have missed it, but has there been discussion of the energy needed to trip the gravity arm?  An optical detector and electromagnetic actuator
would seem to be an obvious area for study.
Mark, but to study what? If the energetics of the clock is of concern an EM actuator releasing the gravity arm would not improve the present situation. The obvious place where to look is the EM arming system, it would be improved a lot very simply and cheaply by recovering most magnetic energy by storing it in a capacitor between releases. I have never seen it done but according to me it would have additional benefits: opening the circuit at null current would eliminate the spark damage and reduce the escapement noise.
If accuracy is of concern it would improve tremendously getting rid of the gravity arm and adopting electromagnetic impulsing altogether. In an in principle strife for accuracy, a la Woodward, the problem of synchronomes is impulsing so far away from the main oscillation mass, the bob. The present impulse excites spurious oscillation modes of the pendulum with a much lower Q than the standard one and accuracy is badly decreased. I believe I described my attempts at EM impulsing on this forum at Clock or anemometer. The reduction of period standard deviation is very obvious, of a couple of order of magnitudes in my case. I know standard deviation is not a measure of accuracy, never the less I remember the clock "true" noise, in Woodward's sense, at that point was down to the atmospheric wind induced vibrations of my apartment walls.
 
--
Bepi


Re: Sources of Mechanical Power Loss in Synchronome Movement

markotime
 

That is very interesting.  On the topic of suspension springs, consider a very stiff one.  I suspect that there would be a considerable loss of energy to heat,
just from experience with something like the Seth Thomas No. 2 Regulator, which is quite sensitive to susp. spring thickness.  There may be another factor
worth considering - with narrow and/or thin suspension springs, rotary motion may become a factor, though I suspect an insignificant one in terms of energy
loss. 
I apologize if I have missed it, but has there been discussion of the energy needed to trip the gravity arm?  An optical detector and electromagnetic actuator
would seem to be an obvious area for study.  /mark


Re: Sources of Mechanical Power Loss in Synchronome Movement

Andrew Nahum
 

Really interesting. Many thanks. I have just counterbalanced the ratchet detent roller by adding bluetack to the end of counterbalance arm - to the point where the roller just follows the tooth back down to stop the wheel.  I don't have any instrumentation but the pendulum amplitude appears to have increased by approximately 8 mm, or 4 mm per side as measured from the beat plate below the pendulum bob - a very useful increase given the low power reserve in the Synchronome system.
Andrew


On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 12:33 AM Grant Griffiths <grantgriffiths@...> wrote:

Thanks Bepi,

I have followed up your links.  It's very impressive work.

I was going to say that it would be interesting to see the effect of reducing the ratchet detent roller weight by adding counterweights to the arm - but I see you have done that and found it makes a big difference - which follows my qualitative assessment.  Also interesting that the stone jewel is more lossy than the steel one - perhaps you got it from the same vendor ;-)

Grant

On 23/10/2021 10:14 pm, Bepi wrote:
On Sun, Oct 17, 2021 at 08:59 AM, Grant Griffiths wrote:
the bad news is that I don't know which of these things did the trick
Grant, about finding out "which of these things did the trick" some times ago I posted on this forum an attempt to quantify my synchronome losses which worked out very well for me : Chasing the losses
the method can be applied to any losses, it would be fun if somebody would use it to complement the list you just compiled with measured data
I would be happy to help providing an inexpensive timer to anybody interested and assisting in the setup, Bepi

 
--
Bepi


Re: Sources of Mechanical Power Loss in Synchronome Movement

Grant Griffiths
 

Thanks Bepi,

I have followed up your links.  It's very impressive work.

I was going to say that it would be interesting to see the effect of reducing the ratchet detent roller weight by adding counterweights to the arm - but I see you have done that and found it makes a big difference - which follows my qualitative assessment.  Also interesting that the stone jewel is more lossy than the steel one - perhaps you got it from the same vendor ;-)

Grant

On 23/10/2021 10:14 pm, Bepi wrote:
On Sun, Oct 17, 2021 at 08:59 AM, Grant Griffiths wrote:
the bad news is that I don't know which of these things did the trick
Grant, about finding out "which of these things did the trick" some times ago I posted on this forum an attempt to quantify my synchronome losses which worked out very well for me : Chasing the losses
the method can be applied to any losses, it would be fun if somebody would use it to complement the list you just compiled with measured data
I would be happy to help providing an inexpensive timer to anybody interested and assisting in the setup, Bepi

 
--
Bepi


Re: searching for synchronome resistance(s)

markotime
 

allowing for roughly half a volt loss across the series diode, which may affect operation.

On 10/23/2021 1:29 AM, Ian Richardson via groups.io wrote:
Hi All,

I seem to have started a hare running here - for the wrong reason!  I have contacted Markus off-list, and the resistors he is looking for are for current limiting, NOT spark quenching!

However, it is worth adding to Grant's remarks that if you use diodes for spark suppression, it is wise to use another diode in series with the power supply to avoid the problem of stuffing things up if the supply is reversed!  Simple.

Cheers,
Ian R
Auvergne, France



-----Original Message-----
From: Grant Griffiths <grantgriffiths@...>
To: synchronome1@groups.io
Sent: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 4:08
Subject: Re: [synchronomeelectricclock] searching for synchronome resistance(s)

Nope, back-to-back Zeners are definitely the best for spark and RF suppression and minimising unnecessary battery drain.  Diode is simpler, but if someone accidentally reverses the polarity, a diode will drain the battery or load the supply.
Grant
On 23/10/2021 10:54 am, markotime wrote:
Diode much better idea.  In really early days, Selenium diode stacks were
probably more expensive, maybe less reliable than, resistors and caps.
Silicon diodes, 1n400X cheap and effective.  Cathode to +.

On 10/22/2021 4:43 PM, Neville Michie wrote:
One case that Rod Elliott article omits, is the use of a resistor,
about 5 0r 10 times that of the coil, in series with a capacitor,
maybe 1 microfarad, connected across the coil. This is used by Gents
in the C7, and is the best of both worlds, using a resistive quench,
but not wasting power, having polarity problems or extending the
magnetic impulse. I have not actually measured the values used in the C7.

Re. the Synchronome, mine has a quench resistor behind the main
casting, connected across the coils, as well as one across the
coil in each slave.

cheers,
Neville Michie

On 23 Oct 2021, at 09:54, Grant Griffiths <grantgriffiths@...> wrote:

Dear All,

As a footnote on spark quenching, I can recommend this explanatory article by fellow Australian, Rod Elliott:

https://sound-au.com/clocks/spark-q.html

Best regards,

Grant

On 23/10/2021 2:03 am, Ian Richardson via groups.io wrote:
Hi Markus,

You have a fine clock.  I have an identical one and so I should be able to help you.

I don't fully understand what you mean by "the two resistances".  Normally there are no extra resistances in a Synchronome clock, except when they have been supplied to the GPO (Post Office) when they had resistances shunted across the slave dial magnets.  Mine has these resistors and I think that they are about 220 ohms (but I could be wrong!).  There will be someone out there who will tell you - there is a rough formula to calculate the shunt resistor in relation to the coil resistance.  The shunt resistors are for spark quenching, but the clock will work perfectly well without them, although with the seconds switch I wouldn't recommend it as there is a chance of a click every second interfering with your radio or TV!  If you run your clock via a diode rectifier (to make sure that the polarity can not be changed) then you could fix a diode shunt on each slave magnet for spark quenching.

I have two observations to make; firstly the seconds switch which you have appears to be missing two jewels - one on the latch and the other at the end of the lever which is tripped by the dangling finger on the pendulum.  A replacement for the latch could be a Brocot ruby which I'm sure you will find in Germany.  The other one in my clock is a round glass rod, but this could be a piece of hardened silver steel.  The lever which trips the seconds switch is very light and must be well balanced so this "jewel" must not be too heavy or the switch action may be impaired.

The other is a query - what is the thing above the countwheel on the left side of the master clock movement?

Welcome to the Synchronome owners club!  It will give your hours of fun and frustration, but some pleasure also (I hope).

Best regards,
Ian R
Auvergne, France


-----Original Message-----
From: Markus <lehmeier.markus@...>
To: synchronome1@groups.io
Sent: Wed, 20 Oct 2021 20:44
Subject: [synchronomeelectricclock] searching for synchronome resistance(s)

Hello everybody,
I've bought a synchronome masterclock about three years ago - here in germany - and the second switch (the small one) was missing. Now I found one :-)
But also the two resistances (or di I need more?) are missing - and I wasn't able to find them. It#s hard to get spare parts for thi clocks in germany. But maybe somebody can help me? Sorry, my english is not really good but I hope it is understandable.

Thank and best regards from Augsburg
Markus









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Re: Sources of Mechanical Power Loss in Synchronome Movement

Bepi
 

On Sun, Oct 17, 2021 at 08:59 AM, Grant Griffiths wrote:
the bad news is that I don't know which of these things did the trick
Grant, about finding out "which of these things did the trick" some times ago I posted on this forum an attempt to quantify my synchronome losses which worked out very well for me : Chasing the losses
the method can be applied to any losses, it would be fun if somebody would use it to complement the list you just compiled with measured data
I would be happy to help providing an inexpensive timer to anybody interested and assisting in the setup, Bepi

 
--
Bepi

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