Date   

Re: Unknown clock ? home project?

Graham Mitchell
 

Thanks Peter and Ian,
                                   It's  a clock on offer about 90 miles away.  I already have a Synchronome, GPO36 and three other master clocks, commercially made in Australia, a Prouds, an Acelec and Scientific Clocks, Sydney and others.  So do I need another?  Can you have too many?

           Thanks or the reminder about "Electric Clocks and Chimes."  Yes, it does look like the one in Chapter 2.  I'm mulling over it,
Regards
Graham


Re: Pallet design

Ian Richardson
 

John et al,

Thanks for posting that, someone else already did a wee while ago with some additional annotation.  I also have a copy of that book and have always thought it curious to note that amongst the most critical dimensions are the position of the pivot hole in the impulse pallet and the length of the gathering arm - and neither gets a mention!!  Neither are the are useful dimensions for the backstop click, which clearly locates the teeth of the count wheel in relation to the gathering jewel.

In my opinion, the moment and position that the gravity arm falls on the pallet is probably the most critical part of the whole system - more so than the pallet profile as I suggested earlier.  Odd, then, that it gets no mention other than to stipulate that with the pendulum at rest, the roller should rest on the point at which the concave curve meets the flat land.  For this happen dynamically (ie when the pendulum is swinging to the right) it is clear that the moment of release the catch becomes vitally important.

There, I've rambled on enough..

Ian R
Macclesfield, UK


-----Original Message-----
From: John Howell <j@...>
To: synchronome1 <synchronome1@groups.io>
Sent: Sun, 13 Jan 2019 17:34
Subject: Re: [synchronomeelectricclock] Pallet design

Hello Ian, John et al,
A book entitled 'Electric Clocks & Chimes' has a chapter by Harold F Cook on the construction of a Synchronome master. The book seems to have had the approval of Frank Hope-Jones so the dimensions aught to be accurate. I attach a scan of the pallet details which show the slope on the top surface.
I hope this is of use to you.
Best Regards.
John Howell.

On 12/01/2019 11:31, John Haine wrote:
Hello Ian, yes that would be much appreciated if you could please?

James, thank you for that bit of history.  I have an e-copy of FHJ's long book "Electric Clocks" which also has a slightly longer treatment.

As regards the top face of the pallet, I appreciate that in practice the roller should actually drop right at the edge of the curved face, but I have seen two arguments for a different shape.  One is to make it a dead roll, i.e. an arc of radius equal to the distance from pallet to suspension point.  The other is from the articles on Controlling the Shortt by Tim Voore, who suggests that the slight up-slope is to compensate for the small shift of the pendulum CG when the gravity arm bears on the pallet before the impulse.  Of course perhaps the main reason is just to give a bit of extra clearance!


Re: Unknown clock ? home project?

Peter Torry
 

Graham,

I would agree with Ian's summing up of your clock as I had a similar one some time ago that went to live not too far from Ian.  There were many designs in various publications like The Model Engineer magazine and Electric clocks and Chimes etc. If it will help you I can scan the relevant pages and send them to you.  Looks an interesting project and should restore quite well - let us know how it progresses.

Regards

Peter


On 13/01/2019 13:05, Ian Richardson via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi Graham,

You will no doubt get many opinion and some facts about your clock, but just to set the ball rolling it looks to me as if it MAY be a home made job.

What is fairly certain is that it is of the "Hipp toggle" variety - the electromagnets at the bottom of the case would be periodically energised by the toggle switch on the brass plate.  The toggle would have been hanging from the small brass collar visible part way down the wooden pendulum rod - it should be higher up, just above the toggle switch.  The magnets would be powered only occasionally (typically every 20 or 30 swings of the pendulum, and can not therefore be used to drive the time dial.

It is possible that the dial is operated mechanically by the swinging pendulum, but only a photo of the back of the dial would reveal what's actually there.

There are plently of clocks with a similar drive system around - probably the best known (at least in the UK) would be the GPO Clock No.36 or other silent electric variants.  The originator of the toggle switch was a Swiss gentleman by the name of Matheus Hipp, so there are also many fine Swiss made clocks using the system, frequently under the name Favag.

Don't know if this helps, but it would probably be worthwhile doing it up as what is seen in the photo all looks OK.  Is it yours, or are you looking to buy it?

Best regards,
Ian R
Macclesfield, UK


-----Original Message-----
From: 72 E Graham Mitchell <gmclocks@...>
To: synchronome1 <synchronome1@groups.io>
Sent: Sun, 13 Jan 2019 10:09
Subject: [synchronomeelectricclock] Unknown clock ? home project?

Is the clock in the picture a recognisable project clock?
Thanks
Graham
Sydney


Re: Pallet design

John Howell
 

Hello Ian, John et al,

A book entitled 'Electric Clocks & Chimes' has a chapter by Harold F Cook on the construction of a Synchronome master. The book seems to have had the approval of Frank Hope-Jones so the dimensions aught to be accurate. I attach a scan of the pallet details which show the slope on the top surface.

I hope this is of use to you.

Best Regards.

John Howell.


On 12/01/2019 11:31, John Haine wrote:
Hello Ian, yes that would be much appreciated if you could please?

James, thank you for that bit of history.  I have an e-copy of FHJ's long book "Electric Clocks" which also has a slightly longer treatment.

As regards the top face of the pallet, I appreciate that in practice the roller should actually drop right at the edge of the curved face, but I have seen two arguments for a different shape.  One is to make it a dead roll, i.e. an arc of radius equal to the distance from pallet to suspension point.  The other is from the articles on Controlling the Shortt by Tim Voore, who suggests that the slight up-slope is to compensate for the small shift of the pendulum CG when the gravity arm bears on the pallet before the impulse.  Of course perhaps the main reason is just to give a bit of extra clearance!


Re: "...had tried to saw it in half." 😢The re-birth. 🥳

Simon Taylor
 

sorry to mulitpost, hit send too fast. I meant the clock bracket is the lower one marked ‘2’.

Simon

On 13 Jan 2019, at 15:33pm, Simon Taylor via Groups.Io <smktaylor1@...> wrote:

Have enclosed drawing of bracket plate for moggy plinth in case you wish to use a bracket…

This goes inside the clock whilst another with larger holes is usually welded to some sort of bracket that attaches to the outside of the clock.

Simon GPO clocks



On 13 Jan 2019, at 15:10pm, Tony Nixon <aknixon@...> wrote:

Ian,
At the risk of going even further off topic, do I gather that your door bell is not electric either?
<ddogjlckoajcccpp.png>

Tony ;-)


On 12/01/2019 10:53, Ian Richardson via Groups.Io wrote:
As you will see, such clocks are appreciated by all......

Ian R
Macclesfield, UK

(sorry, strictly speaking this is "off-topoic" because neither the clock nor the cat are either electric or Synchronome!)






-- 
Simon GPO Clocks

http://www.lightstraw.co.uk/gpo/clocksystems/index.html

<spl:96.pdf>


--
Simon GPO Clocks

http://www.lightstraw.co.uk/gpo/clocksystems/index.html


Re: "...had tried to saw it in half." 😢The re-birth. 🥳

Simon Taylor
 

Have enclosed drawing of bracket plate for moggy plinth in case you wish to use a bracket…

This goes inside the clock whilst another with larger holes is usually welded to some sort of bracket that attaches to the outside of the clock.

Simon GPO clocks



On 13 Jan 2019, at 15:10pm, Tony Nixon <aknixon@...> wrote:

Ian,
At the risk of going even further off topic, do I gather that your door bell is not electric either?
<ddogjlckoajcccpp.png>

Tony ;-)


On 12/01/2019 10:53, Ian Richardson via Groups.Io wrote:
As you will see, such clocks are appreciated by all......

Ian R
Macclesfield, UK

(sorry, strictly speaking this is "off-topoic" because neither the clock nor the cat are either electric or Synchronome!)






--
Simon GPO Clocks

http://www.lightstraw.co.uk/gpo/clocksystems/index.html


Re: "...had tried to saw it in half." 😢The re-birth. 🥳

Simon Taylor
 

"Back to Synchronomes I think…….”:

No you don’t! Not until I get my tuppence worth in that I installed two of these doorbells in the last 10 years using original parts!

Er, what movements you have in the Clock 50?

Simon GPO Clocks

On 13 Jan 2019, at 15:22pm, Ian Richardson via Groups.Io <irichar361@...> wrote:

Correct and well spotted!!  It's a wholly mechanical affair withg a big brass bell pull knob at the front door, wires and bell cranks terminating in a big bronze bell.  Some visitors unfamiliar with the concept still insist on knocking, which we can't hear!!

Back to Synchronomes I think.......

Ian R


-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Nixon <aknixon@...>
To: synchronome1 <synchronome1@groups.io>
Sent: Sun, 13 Jan 2019 3:10 pm
Subject: Re: [synchronomeelectricclock] "...had tried to saw it in half." 😢The re-birth. 🥳

Ian,
At the risk of going even further off topic, do I gather that your door bell is not electric either?
<ddogjlckoajcccpp.png>

Tony ;-)


On 12/01/2019 10:53, Ian Richardson via Groups.Io wrote:
As you will see, such clocks are appreciated by all......

Ian R
Macclesfield, UK

(sorry, strictly speaking this is "off-topoic" because neither the clock nor the cat are either electric or Synchronome!)




<ddogjlckoajcccpp.png>


--
Simon GPO Clocks

http://www.lightstraw.co.uk/gpo/clocksystems/index.html


Re: "...had tried to saw it in half." 😢The re-birth. 🥳

Ian Richardson
 
Edited

Correct and well spotted!!  It's a wholly mechanical affair withg a big brass bell pull knob at the front door, wires and bell cranks terminating in a big bronze bell.  Some visitors unfamiliar with the concept still insist on knocking, which we can't hear!!

Back to Synchronomes I think.......

Ian R


-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Nixon <aknixon@...>
To: synchronome1 <synchronome1@groups.io>
Sent: Sun, 13 Jan 2019 3:10 pm
Subject: Re: [synchronomeelectricclock] "...had tried to saw it in half." 😢The re-birth. 🥳

Ian,
At the risk of going even further off topic, do I gather that your door bell is not electric either?


Tony ;-)


On 12/01/2019 10:53, Ian Richardson via Groups.Io wrote:
As you will see, such clocks are appreciated by all......

Ian R
Macclesfield, UK

(sorry, strictly speaking this is "off-topoic" because neither the clock nor the cat are either electric or Synchronome!)





Re: "...had tried to saw it in half." 😢The re-birth. 🥳

Tony Nixon
 
Edited

Ian,
At the risk of going even further off topic, do I gather that your door bell is not electric either?


Tony ;-)


On 12/01/2019 10:53, Ian Richardson via Groups.Io wrote:
As you will see, such clocks are appreciated by all......

Ian R
Macclesfield, UK

(sorry, strictly speaking this is "off-topoic" because neither the clock nor the cat are either electric or Synchronome!)





Re: putting clocks on forwards or backwards

John Haine
 

At the University that I visit regularly, they have put radio controlled quartz clocks everywhere in an attempt to solve this.  However they don't necessarily work very well in the reinforced concrete buildings so they are frequently showing the wrong time or stopped.


Re: Unknown clock ? home project?

Ian Richardson
 

Hi Graham,

You will no doubt get many opinion and some facts about your clock, but just to set the ball rolling it looks to me as if it MAY be a home made job.

What is fairly certain is that it is of the "Hipp toggle" variety - the electromagnets at the bottom of the case would be periodically energised by the toggle switch on the brass plate.  The toggle would have been hanging from the small brass collar visible part way down the wooden pendulum rod - it should be higher up, just above the toggle switch.  The magnets would be powered only occasionally (typically every 20 or 30 swings of the pendulum, and can not therefore be used to drive the time dial.

It is possible that the dial is operated mechanically by the swinging pendulum, but only a photo of the back of the dial would reveal what's actually there.

There are plently of clocks with a similar drive system around - probably the best known (at least in the UK) would be the GPO Clock No.36 or other silent electric variants.  The originator of the toggle switch was a Swiss gentleman by the name of Matheus Hipp, so there are also many fine Swiss made clocks using the system, frequently under the name Favag.

Don't know if this helps, but it would probably be worthwhile doing it up as what is seen in the photo all looks OK.  Is it yours, or are you looking to buy it?

Best regards,
Ian R
Macclesfield, UK


-----Original Message-----
From: 72 E Graham Mitchell <gmclocks@...>
To: synchronome1 <synchronome1@groups.io>
Sent: Sun, 13 Jan 2019 10:09
Subject: [synchronomeelectricclock] Unknown clock ? home project?

Is the clock in the picture a recognisable project clock?
Thanks
Graham
Sydney


Unknown clock ? home project?

Graham Mitchell
 

Is the clock in the picture a recognisable project clock?
Thanks
Graham
Sydney


Re: Regulator style slave

RICHARD ADAMEK
 

I like the 'negative effect' dial Simon, although I hadn't considered the 1bps heartbeat before seeing the video - may need to find some sanity retaining method of quietening a bit.

I don't know why this dial pattern became popular for regulators but pre Shortt Synchronome they would have been standard in observatories as the most accurate clocks available (I assume at least if not more accurate than a marine chronometer but have never seen that defined !)

I'll have to have a dig through the stores to see what wheelwork and solenoids I might mash together.

Cheers

Richard




On Friday, 11 January 2019, 09:22:48 GMT, Simon Taylor <smktaylor1@...> wrote:


Hi Richard,

We had a Synchronome ‘observatory’ slave clock (That was my name for it). I have a video about it, so you can see if this is what you were thinking off.

Simon GPO clocks



Re: Pallet design

John Haine
 

Hello Ian, yes that would be much appreciated if you could please?

James, thank you for that bit of history.  I have an e-copy of FHJ's long book "Electric Clocks" which also has a slightly longer treatment.

As regards the top face of the pallet, I appreciate that in practice the roller should actually drop right at the edge of the curved face, but I have seen two arguments for a different shape.  One is to make it a dead roll, i.e. an arc of radius equal to the distance from pallet to suspension point.  The other is from the articles on Controlling the Shortt by Tim Voore, who suggests that the slight up-slope is to compensate for the small shift of the pendulum CG when the gravity arm bears on the pallet before the impulse.  Of course perhaps the main reason is just to give a bit of extra clearance!


Re: "...had tried to saw it in half." 😢The re-birth. 🥳

Ian Richardson
 

As you will see, such clocks are appreciated by all......

Ian R
Macclesfield, UK

(sorry, strictly speaking this is "off-topoic" because neither the clock nor the cat are either electric or Synchronome!)



Re: "...had tried to saw it in half." 😢The re-birth. 🥳

Simon Taylor
 

The video link did not come through on the copy and paste!
https://youtu.be/15TrCD3zg3k
--
Simon GPO Clocks

http://www.lightstraw.co.uk/gpo/clocksystems/index.html


"...had tried to saw it in half." 😢The re-birth. 🥳

Simon Taylor
 

And so to the final part. the battery movements were replaced with a pair of Synchronome types, mainly as I didn't have any E.C.S. ones. The GPO factory at Holloway frequently refurbished clocks and it was quite usual to see parts from different manufacturers in one clock and it even has a refurbish code in there for September 1966 (FHR 9/66), so that is very fitting.

IMG_20190108_134853.jpgAlthough I am quite partial to a little 'Rock 'n Roll' the clock probably would not appreciate it and so a little work was needed to the bracket where it would meet the wall.

IMG_20190108_123157.jpgA quick touch from an angle grinder and then a follow up with a file seemed to do the job.

IMG_20190108_135352.jpgSome paint would finish that off nicely!

By now, the clock room was becoming full and the Octagonal Bakelite 4A would have to be moved. I still had one peice of glass to get, a minute hand to change and a face to clean up, but the clock would be shortly going to get a good view of the room!

IMG_20190108_135035.jpgWith the bracket up securely, it was time to mount the 50A.

Screenshot 2019-01-11 at 23.49.42pm.png
The 4A came down to be given a good place at the end of the room, and having connected up and advanced the clock circuit, I was pleasantly surprised to find that all did indeed work.

Screenshot 2019-01-11 at 23.52.32pm.png
After all the clock had been through, it was a real relive to hear and watch it step. It now has a future, being appreciated and maintained for now and for future generations. No less than it deserves!

Screenshot 2019-01-11 at 23.55.25pm.png

The person who sold me the clock was interested to know that it would be restored and so I made up a quick video showing it working.



--
Simon GPO Clocks

http://www.lightstraw.co.uk/gpo/clocksystems/index.html


Re: Magneta

John Howell
 

Hi Nick et al,

There must have still been confusion over the use of 'Magneta' in the 1930s. My father was a Rep. for Landis & Gyr and was tasked with getting an affidavit from each of his clients to the effect that they associated the Magneta brand with L & G. Sadly my father has passed away, but he did recall a large Martin Fischer Magneta in the factory lobby in North Acton, London.

Best Regards,

John Howell.



On 11/01/2019 21:40, Niklaus Maag wrote:

Dear All,

After quiet some silence in the past years I'm really surprised of the echo the name Magneta created in the new group. As some of the group members know I have been researching the Swiss side of the history of Magneta and its inventor Martin Fischer. This research resulted in a 18 pages illustrated article in German which was published in the bulletin of Chronometrophilia in summer 2009. Since then I was able to consult the archive of Landis & Gyr who in 1920 took over Magneta. 1922 the name Inducta was registered which replaced the name Magneta in later years. The archive was a mine of information and in my opinion the history of Magneta, where James had a good start with the U.K., should be extended with other countries like Germany, France, United States etc.

Best regards,

Nick Maag, Switzerland
Vice President Chronometrophilia


Re: Magneta

Niklaus Maag
 

Dear All,

After quiet some silence in the past years I'm really surprised of the echo the name Magneta created in the new group. As some of the group members know I have been researching the Swiss side of the history of Magneta and its inventor Martin Fischer. This research resulted in a 18 pages illustrated article in German which was published in the bulletin of Chronometrophilia in summer 2009. Since then I was able to consult the archive of Landis & Gyr who in 1920 took over Magneta. 1922 the name Inducta was registered which replaced the name Magneta in later years. The archive was a mine of information and in my opinion the history of Magneta, where James had a good start with the U.K., should be extended with other countries like Germany, France, United States etc.

Best regards,

Nick Maag, Switzerland
Vice President Chronometrophilia


Re: Regulator style slave

RICHARD ADAMEK
 

Thanks Simon, Jim beat you to it and I've now seen them :)  but there may be others unfamiliar with the new platform scratching their heads like I was, glad to follow the link  :)

Richard

On Friday, 11 January 2019, 20:36:25 GMT, Simon Taylor <smktaylor1@...> wrote:


Hi Richard, 

it is in the online group.

Hopefully the following link will take you to the photo album…


Simon GPO clocks



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