Date   

Re: Bounce in gravity arm

John Hubert
 

Early clocks have a spiral spring as you describe.  See immediately below;

Later clocks have a separate spring set to the right side which has a few turns and a long ‘arm’.  Again, see immediately below;

Apologies for the photo quality, the light is poor and the ‘flash’ on my phone camera has a mind of its own.



On 30 Jun 2021, at 13:18, bailey.services via groups.io <bailey.services@...> wrote:

The return spring is a spiral spring around the arbor that hooks into the frame, same as in your video. Yours looks to have extra weight added via brass nut and bolt which maybe necessary with earlier pallet shape. Interesting to see other videos.
Howard


Re: Bounce in gravity arm

Howard
 

The return spring is a spiral spring around the arbor that hooks into the frame, same as in your video. Yours looks to have extra weight added via brass nut and bolt which maybe necessary with earlier pallet shape. Interesting to see other videos.
Howard


Re: Bounce in gravity arm

Darren Conway
 

Hi

I inserted a small piece of shoe inner sole to absorb the shock and reduce the bounce.    The piece was inserted as shown in red on the attached image (OPs clock).

The silicone gel type soft material is good for absorbing energy.  I did it to reduce the noise.

If you want to keep to traditional materials, a piece of felt would be OK as well.

The aim is not to stop the tab flexing.  The aim is to absorb the energy to reduce the bouncing. 


Regards

Darren Conway
Lower Hutt
New Zealand


On 30.06.21 9:49 pm, John Hubert wrote:
And here is a later clock with a folded sheet metal type of latching piece on the gravity arm - and it does also bounce quite a lot.



On 30 Jun 2021, at 10:39, John Hubert via groups.io <jfphubert@...> wrote:

There are several differences visible that may be significant.

On my clock, the ‘peg’ for the latch on the gravity arm is a solid item (looks like a steel peg with a shim soldered on!), whereas yours is a sprung folder arrangement.  Comparing your with another clock I have with your type pf latch, yours looks quite thin material - my other one is 0.6mm thick.  I will try and film it.

My clock has a notably ’snappy’ action - and gives a very short impulse.  I don’t know why, but the gravity arm has had a few variations/modifications in its life (before my time) and may be a bit lighter that it should be.  I should have thought that is marginal, but it is very ’snappy’, even running at a lowish current (from memory, about 280 mA) as it does.  Note that because it runs a Synchronome distribution board, the master movement coils are able to have their current set independently.  

Mine is an early clock without the buffer stop to the left of the vertical part of the gravity arm.  As early clocks do, it has a different profile on the impulse pallet slope.  I don’t see why this should make any difference to ‘bounce’.

I will try and film the later clock.

On 30 Jun 2021, at 10:20, Simon Allen <simon.sallen@...> wrote:

These videos really do help diagnose issues.  You can swipe the video back and forwards.  It is very tricky when you wait 30 seconds for the action to start again and it is all over in a quarter of a second.

Simon

On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 at 10:01, John Hubert <jfphubert@...> wrote:
This is mine (note that mine doesn’t have the ‘advance’ loop fitted)




On 29 Jun 2021, at 18:53, bailey.services via groups.io <bailey.services@...> wrote:

How much bounce should you expect in the gravity arm, I am occasionally seeing a double impulse where it fails to latch. Reducing the current to slow things down gives unreliable advance of the pilot dial.

The latch and leather wing had been crushed together and gripped the catch on the gravity arm, I have straightened these but think the leather wing looks a bit high, bending it down so it meets the rising catch sooner and at a more acute angle would presumably slow the motion.

The leather is replaced wasn’t sure how thick it should be.

Any thoughts?
Howard <IMG_0075.MOV>





-- 
Simon



Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Bounce in gravity arm

Ian Richardson
 

Hi All,

There is video on YouTube of my Synchronome No.40:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rna3Ak2W7yA

I have not watched this in slow motion until this thread started, and it is interesting to see that the action is very "snappy" with almost no bounce at all!!

Best regards,
Ian R
Auvergne,
France



-----Original Message-----
From: John Hubert <jfphubert@...>
To: synchronome1@groups.io
Sent: Wed, 30 Jun 2021 11:49
Subject: Re: [synchronomeelectricclock] Bounce in gravity arm

And here is a later clock with a folded sheet metal type of latching piece on the gravity arm - and it does also bounce quite a lot.



On 30 Jun 2021, at 10:39, John Hubert via groups.io <jfphubert@...> wrote:

There are several differences visible that may be significant.

On my clock, the ‘peg’ for the latch on the gravity arm is a solid item (looks like a steel peg with a shim soldered on!), whereas yours is a sprung folder arrangement.  Comparing your with another clock I have with your type pf latch, yours looks quite thin material - my other one is 0.6mm thick.  I will try and film it.

My clock has a notably ’snappy’ action - and gives a very short impulse.  I don’t know why, but the gravity arm has had a few variations/modifications in its life (before my time) and may be a bit lighter that it should be.  I should have thought that is marginal, but it is very ’snappy’, even running at a lowish current (from memory, about 280 mA) as it does.  Note that because it runs a Synchronome distribution board, the master movement coils are able to have their current set independently.  

Mine is an early clock without the buffer stop to the left of the vertical part of the gravity arm.  As early clocks do, it has a different profile on the impulse pallet slope.  I don’t see why this should make any difference to ‘bounce’.

I will try and film the later clock.

On 30 Jun 2021, at 10:20, Simon Allen <simon.sallen@...> wrote:

These videos really do help diagnose issues.  You can swipe the video back and forwards.  It is very tricky when you wait 30 seconds for the action to start again and it is all over in a quarter of a second.

Simon

On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 at 10:01, John Hubert <jfphubert@...> wrote:
This is mine (note that mine doesn’t have the ‘advance’ loop fitted)




On 29 Jun 2021, at 18:53, bailey.services via groups.io <bailey.services@...> wrote:

How much bounce should you expect in the gravity arm, I am occasionally seeing a double impulse where it fails to latch. Reducing the current to slow things down gives unreliable advance of the pilot dial.

The latch and leather wing had been crushed together and gripped the catch on the gravity arm, I have straightened these but think the leather wing looks a bit high, bending it down so it meets the rising catch sooner and at a more acute angle would presumably slow the motion.

The leather is replaced wasn’t sure how thick it should be.

Any thoughts?
Howard <IMG_0075.MOV>





-- 
Simon



Re: Bounce in gravity arm

John Hubert
 

And here is a later clock with a folded sheet metal type of latching piece on the gravity arm - and it does also bounce quite a lot.



On 30 Jun 2021, at 10:39, John Hubert via groups.io <jfphubert@...> wrote:

There are several differences visible that may be significant.

On my clock, the ‘peg’ for the latch on the gravity arm is a solid item (looks like a steel peg with a shim soldered on!), whereas yours is a sprung folder arrangement.  Comparing your with another clock I have with your type pf latch, yours looks quite thin material - my other one is 0.6mm thick.  I will try and film it.

My clock has a notably ’snappy’ action - and gives a very short impulse.  I don’t know why, but the gravity arm has had a few variations/modifications in its life (before my time) and may be a bit lighter that it should be.  I should have thought that is marginal, but it is very ’snappy’, even running at a lowish current (from memory, about 280 mA) as it does.  Note that because it runs a Synchronome distribution board, the master movement coils are able to have their current set independently.  

Mine is an early clock without the buffer stop to the left of the vertical part of the gravity arm.  As early clocks do, it has a different profile on the impulse pallet slope.  I don’t see why this should make any difference to ‘bounce’.

I will try and film the later clock.

On 30 Jun 2021, at 10:20, Simon Allen <simon.sallen@...> wrote:

These videos really do help diagnose issues.  You can swipe the video back and forwards.  It is very tricky when you wait 30 seconds for the action to start again and it is all over in a quarter of a second.

Simon

On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 at 10:01, John Hubert <jfphubert@...> wrote:
This is mine (note that mine doesn’t have the ‘advance’ loop fitted)




On 29 Jun 2021, at 18:53, bailey.services via groups.io <bailey.services@...> wrote:

How much bounce should you expect in the gravity arm, I am occasionally seeing a double impulse where it fails to latch. Reducing the current to slow things down gives unreliable advance of the pilot dial.

The latch and leather wing had been crushed together and gripped the catch on the gravity arm, I have straightened these but think the leather wing looks a bit high, bending it down so it meets the rising catch sooner and at a more acute angle would presumably slow the motion.

The leather is replaced wasn’t sure how thick it should be.

Any thoughts?
Howard <IMG_0075.MOV>





-- 
Simon



Re: Bounce in gravity arm

John Hubert
 

There are several differences visible that may be significant.

On my clock, the ‘peg’ for the latch on the gravity arm is a solid item (looks like a steel peg with a shim soldered on!), whereas yours is a sprung folder arrangement.  Comparing your with another clock I have with your type pf latch, yours looks quite thin material - my other one is 0.6mm thick.  I will try and film it.

My clock has a notably ’snappy’ action - and gives a very short impulse.  I don’t know why, but the gravity arm has had a few variations/modifications in its life (before my time) and may be a bit lighter that it should be.  I should have thought that is marginal, but it is very ’snappy’, even running at a lowish current (from memory, about 280 mA) as it does.  Note that because it runs a Synchronome distribution board, the master movement coils are able to have their current set independently.  

Mine is an early clock without the buffer stop to the left of the vertical part of the gravity arm.  As early clocks do, it has a different profile on the impulse pallet slope.  I don’t see why this should make any difference to ‘bounce’.

I will try and film the later clock.

On 30 Jun 2021, at 10:20, Simon Allen <simon.sallen@...> wrote:

These videos really do help diagnose issues.  You can swipe the video back and forwards.  It is very tricky when you wait 30 seconds for the action to start again and it is all over in a quarter of a second.

Simon

On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 at 10:01, John Hubert <jfphubert@...> wrote:
This is mine (note that mine doesn’t have the ‘advance’ loop fitted)




On 29 Jun 2021, at 18:53, bailey.services via groups.io <bailey.services@...> wrote:

How much bounce should you expect in the gravity arm, I am occasionally seeing a double impulse where it fails to latch. Reducing the current to slow things down gives unreliable advance of the pilot dial.

The latch and leather wing had been crushed together and gripped the catch on the gravity arm, I have straightened these but think the leather wing looks a bit high, bending it down so it meets the rising catch sooner and at a more acute angle would presumably slow the motion.

The leather is replaced wasn’t sure how thick it should be.

Any thoughts?
Howard <IMG_0075.MOV>





-- 
Simon


Re: Bounce in gravity arm

 

These videos really do help diagnose issues.  You can swipe the video back and forwards.  It is very tricky when you wait 30 seconds for the action to start again and it is all over in a quarter of a second.

Simon

On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 at 10:01, John Hubert <jfphubert@...> wrote:
This is mine (note that mine doesn’t have the ‘advance’ loop fitted)




On 29 Jun 2021, at 18:53, bailey.services via groups.io <bailey.services@...> wrote:

How much bounce should you expect in the gravity arm, I am occasionally seeing a double impulse where it fails to latch. Reducing the current to slow things down gives unreliable advance of the pilot dial.

The latch and leather wing had been crushed together and gripped the catch on the gravity arm, I have straightened these but think the leather wing looks a bit high, bending it down so it meets the rising catch sooner and at a more acute angle would presumably slow the motion.

The leather is replaced wasn’t sure how thick it should be.

Any thoughts?
Howard <IMG_0075.MOV>



--
Simon


Re: Bounce in gravity arm

John Hubert
 

This is mine (note that mine doesn’t have the ‘advance’ loop fitted)




On 29 Jun 2021, at 18:53, bailey.services via groups.io <bailey.services@...> wrote:

How much bounce should you expect in the gravity arm, I am occasionally seeing a double impulse where it fails to latch. Reducing the current to slow things down gives unreliable advance of the pilot dial.

The latch and leather wing had been crushed together and gripped the catch on the gravity arm, I have straightened these but think the leather wing looks a bit high, bending it down so it meets the rising catch sooner and at a more acute angle would presumably slow the motion.

The leather is replaced wasn’t sure how thick it should be.

Any thoughts?
Howard <IMG_0075.MOV>


Re: Bounce in gravity arm

 

Is there enough weight in the gravity arm?  It looks like it bounces on the slope.  However, to get your question should there not be a light return spring that returns the catch to its slot?  I do not see it cleanly latching.

Simon


Bounce in gravity arm

Howard
 

How much bounce should you expect in the gravity arm, I am occasionally seeing a double impulse where it fails to latch. Reducing the current to slow things down gives unreliable advance of the pilot dial.

The latch and leather wing had been crushed together and gripped the catch on the gravity arm, I have straightened these but think the leather wing looks a bit high, bending it down so it meets the rising catch sooner and at a more acute angle would presumably slow the motion.

The leather is replaced wasn’t sure how thick it should be.

Any thoughts?
Howard


Bob Miles collection

James Nye
 

Dear All,

 

Bob’s executors have finally arranged for the sale of his clocks. You can find them at Cheffins,  Cambridge on 17 June, lots 231-374 (https://www.cheffins.co.uk/fine-art/catalogue-view,the-interiors-sale_191.htm)

 

All the best,

 

James

 


Re: DRIVING SLAVE SYNCHRONOME DIALS WITHOUT A MASTER CLOCK PRESENT?

 

Hi Chris,

I am in East Sussex, Bexhill in fact.  Not too far from Hailsham.  I have restored a few of these clocks to working order.  Without seeing yours it is difficult to know the fault.  I see one responder here suggested a video.  I have used that technique myself.  It is an excellent suggestion.  Running and then stopping means that there is not enough power getting through to the pendulum.  If you do not get it running I am willing to take a look for the price of a cup of coffee.

Let me know.

Regards,

Simon

On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 at 21:29, Peter Torry via groups.io <peter.torry=talktalk.net@groups.io> wrote:
Chris,

I can really recommend joining the Antiquarian Horological Society's
Electrical Horology Group as you will have available a wealth of
information from nearly 100 technical papers.

https://www.ahsoc.org/groups/electrical-horology-group/

Regards

Peter



On 02/06/2021 18:48, Chris Wollaston wrote:
> Hi Howard & Chris & All, I really do appreciate all the advice you
> chaps are offering, it's very kind and considerate. Here's a
> background to my rather headlong dive into electro-mechanical clocks
> these past 2 years:
>







--
Simon


Re: ANTIQUARIAN HOROLOGICAL SOC. ELECTRICAL GP.

Chris Wollaston
 

Hi Geoff, Many tks for your i/p and yes, on this means I'm already gratefully receiving helpful advice about my 'reluctant-to-run' electro-mech clocks.  I just wish I had your many years of experience under my belt to tackle the issues. Re AHS & EHGp, naturally, I do know a wee bit about them as I've already bought the Society's 3 publications by Bob Miles, Brillie, Bulle & Synchronome Edn2 - a beautifully illustrated tome which I've been devouring.
However, I'm at the stage now with my 1925 Synchronome & 1960 Inducta where I require practical on-site instruction from someone who knows what they are doing so I can watch, listen & learn. (I am prepared to pay reasonable expenses as I feel it's very important to get this set up absolutely right.)
I'd be delighted to discuss EHGp and some of the current issues with you on the phone and look forward to your call - early evening would probably be preferable.
Very Best Regards, Chris in E Sussex  m: 07970 530655


Re: ANTIQUARIAN HOROLOGICAL SOC. ELECTRICAL GP.

ffolliott
 

Hi  Chris...well I have been a member of the AHS and the EHG for over twenty years with a pre-internet  interest in clocks three times this long going back to my school days - this is just a hobby but the benefits of AHS membership only seem to go on increasing. You can inhabit and tap into a world of like minded enthusiasts not only with emails but some meet-ups within a well organised framework of input to support an interest at all levels.  This may provide information, research material, talks and lectures at a source point. If nothing else the availability of instant digitalised searchable research material of past periodicals, publications , video lectures and past members technical papers on various topics are worth the cost of the membership alone. 
 
This is a personal opinion but reflects the " make of it what you will" benefits as I see them.
 
All best
 
Tic Toc ....Geoff
 
 
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2021 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: [synchronomeelectricclock] ANTIQUARIAN HOROLOGICAL SOC. ELECTRICAL GP.

Hello Peter, tks for the recommendation and yes, I did consider it a few months ago plus took some advice from clock enthusiasts and dealers locally who were a bit dismissive due to annual cost of membership. For me as a beginner with all sorts of clocks I have collected around my house, I did worry that it's a bit 'hi-brow' and deep techy so perhaps when I've actually had a chance to meet a few members in person and discuss the situation I might reconsider.
I'm one of those people who love mechanical things and like to see them in action and talk to the owner face-to-face to soak up the enthusiasm and passion.
I'm finding this constant sitting at a keyboard bashing keys sending emails rather sterile and frustrating and v puzzled why there's not a willingness to pick up a phone and have a chat or meet on a Zoom to show stuff live?
Anyway, thanks for the heads up on AHS. Bests, Chris in E Sussex 07970 530655 I use WhatsApp and it's free!!!

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Re: ANTIQUARIAN HOROLOGICAL SOC. ELECTRICAL GP.

H Hal
 

Chris,


I'm a little late to the thread so you may well have answered before....have you posted a video..with sound of your troubled clock so we can hear and see it....such videos are very useful for this.

You appear to be ict literate and "willing" to share, so let's see it


regards


hal

On 03/06/2021 15:33, Chris Wollaston wrote:
Hello Peter, tks for the recommendation and yes, I did consider it a few months ago plus took some advice from clock enthusiasts and dealers locally who were a bit dismissive due to annual cost of membership. For me as a beginner with all sorts of clocks I have collected around my house, I did worry that it's a bit 'hi-brow' and deep techy so perhaps when I've actually had a chance to meet a few members in person and discuss the situation I might reconsider.
I'm one of those people who love mechanical things and like to see them in action and talk to the owner face-to-face to soak up the enthusiasm and passion.
I'm finding this constant sitting at a keyboard bashing keys sending emails rather sterile and frustrating and v puzzled why there's not a willingness to pick up a phone and have a chat or meet on a Zoom to show stuff live?
Anyway, thanks for the heads up on AHS. Bests, Chris in E Sussex 07970 530655 I use WhatsApp and it's free!!!


Re: ANTIQUARIAN HOROLOGICAL SOC. ELECTRICAL GP.

Chris Wollaston
 

Hello Peter, tks for the recommendation and yes, I did consider it a few months ago plus took some advice from clock enthusiasts and dealers locally who were a bit dismissive due to annual cost of membership. For me as a beginner with all sorts of clocks I have collected around my house, I did worry that it's a bit 'hi-brow' and deep techy so perhaps when I've actually had a chance to meet a few members in person and discuss the situation I might reconsider.
I'm one of those people who love mechanical things and like to see them in action and talk to the owner face-to-face to soak up the enthusiasm and passion.
I'm finding this constant sitting at a keyboard bashing keys sending emails rather sterile and frustrating and v puzzled why there's not a willingness to pick up a phone and have a chat or meet on a Zoom to show stuff live?
Anyway, thanks for the heads up on AHS. Bests, Chris in E Sussex 07970 530655 I use WhatsApp and it's free!!!


Re: GPS Time Reference

Peter Torry
 

For a low cost option have a look at the kits from  https://www.qrp-labs.com/

They have many interesting units for GNSS, clocks and synthetic crystals etc.

Regards

Peter  UK


On 03/06/2021 08:34, Darren Conway wrote:

Hi Neil

Do you have a Trademe auction number?

I am currently looking down the DIY lab frequency standard rabbit hole and it is looking a lot deeper than $40.

It looks like many of the Aliexpress U-Blox Neo gps modules are probably fake and gps based time has high phase noise.

The cheap fake gps modules would be just fine for running slaves or comparing against a master.


Regards

Darren Conway
36 Orr Crescent
Lower Hutt
New Zealand
ph +64  (0)4 569 1963

On 3.06.21 4:19 pm, neil wrote:
Hi Darren,
                     there is a chap in the SI who makes and sells such a unit on Trademe for $40. It has a GPS receiver and a nice little LCD display showing the GPS lat & Long and the time in HHMMSS all for $40.

Neil Jepsen. B.Sc. M.Sc(Hons).CPL.MASNZ.
Jepsen Acoustics & Electronics Ltd
22 Domain Street
Palmerston North.
New Zealand.
Ph +64 6 3577539  Mob 0274428094
Web site: www.noiseandweather.co.nz
          www.noiseandweather.com
E.& O.E.
On 2/06/2021 10:51 pm, Darren Conway wrote:

Hi

I have been looking at using a GPS receiver to use as reference time for a RF signal generator upgrade.

I have also been working on developing a arduino based controller  that will drive both a Solari Udine Cifra 12 and Synchronome slave clocks from a Synchronome master.

It would not be difficult to add a GPS receiver to the Arduino controller that would either replace the Master or accurately measure the Master error.

My plan was to make just one controller for me but I thought perhaps others might want one.  Is that something anyone else would like to own?


Regards

Darren Conway
New Zealand




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Re: GPS Time Reference

Darren Conway
 

Hi Neil

Do you have a Trademe auction number?

I am currently looking down the DIY lab frequency standard rabbit hole and it is looking a lot deeper than $40.

It looks like many of the Aliexpress U-Blox Neo gps modules are probably fake and gps based time has high phase noise.

The cheap fake gps modules would be just fine for running slaves or comparing against a master.


Regards

Darren Conway
36 Orr Crescent
Lower Hutt
New Zealand
ph +64  (0)4 569 1963

On 3.06.21 4:19 pm, neil wrote:
Hi Darren,
                     there is a chap in the SI who makes and sells such a unit on Trademe for $40. It has a GPS receiver and a nice little LCD display showing the GPS lat & Long and the time in HHMMSS all for $40.

Neil Jepsen. B.Sc. M.Sc(Hons).CPL.MASNZ.
Jepsen Acoustics & Electronics Ltd
22 Domain Street
Palmerston North.
New Zealand.
Ph +64 6 3577539  Mob 0274428094
Web site: www.noiseandweather.co.nz
          www.noiseandweather.com
E.& O.E.
On 2/06/2021 10:51 pm, Darren Conway wrote:

Hi

I have been looking at using a GPS receiver to use as reference time for a RF signal generator upgrade.

I have also been working on developing a arduino based controller  that will drive both a Solari Udine Cifra 12 and Synchronome slave clocks from a Synchronome master.

It would not be difficult to add a GPS receiver to the Arduino controller that would either replace the Master or accurately measure the Master error.

My plan was to make just one controller for me but I thought perhaps others might want one.  Is that something anyone else would like to own?


Regards

Darren Conway
New Zealand




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Re: GPS Time Reference

neil
 

Hi Darren,
                     there is a chap in the SI who makes and sells such a unit on Trademe for $40. It has a GPS receiver and a nice little LCD display showing the GPS lat & Long and the time in HHMMSS all for $40.

Neil Jepsen. B.Sc. M.Sc(Hons).CPL.MASNZ.
Jepsen Acoustics & Electronics Ltd
22 Domain Street
Palmerston North.
New Zealand.
Ph +64 6 3577539  Mob 0274428094
Web site: www.noiseandweather.co.nz
          www.noiseandweather.com  
E.& O.E.
On 2/06/2021 10:51 pm, Darren Conway wrote:

Hi

I have been looking at using a GPS receiver to use as reference time for a RF signal generator upgrade.

I have also been working on developing a arduino based controller  that will drive both a Solari Udine Cifra 12 and Synchronome slave clocks from a Synchronome master.

It would not be difficult to add a GPS receiver to the Arduino controller that would either replace the Master or accurately measure the Master error.

My plan was to make just one controller for me but I thought perhaps others might want one.  Is that something anyone else would like to own?


Regards

Darren Conway
New Zealand




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Re: DRIVING SLAVE SYNCHRONOME DIALS WITHOUT A MASTER CLOCK PRESENT?

Peter Torry
 

Chris,

I can really recommend joining the Antiquarian Horological Society's Electrical Horology Group as you will have available a wealth of information from nearly 100 technical papers.

https://www.ahsoc.org/groups/electrical-horology-group/

Regards

Peter

On 02/06/2021 18:48, Chris Wollaston wrote:
Hi Howard & Chris & All, I really do appreciate all the advice you chaps are offering, it's very kind and considerate. Here's a background to my rather headlong dive into electro-mechanical clocks these past 2 years:

201 - 220 of 1440