Date   

Re: Unknown clock ? home project?

Ian Richardson
 

Hi Graham,

You will no doubt get many opinion and some facts about your clock, but just to set the ball rolling it looks to me as if it MAY be a home made job.

What is fairly certain is that it is of the "Hipp toggle" variety - the electromagnets at the bottom of the case would be periodically energised by the toggle switch on the brass plate.  The toggle would have been hanging from the small brass collar visible part way down the wooden pendulum rod - it should be higher up, just above the toggle switch.  The magnets would be powered only occasionally (typically every 20 or 30 swings of the pendulum, and can not therefore be used to drive the time dial.

It is possible that the dial is operated mechanically by the swinging pendulum, but only a photo of the back of the dial would reveal what's actually there.

There are plently of clocks with a similar drive system around - probably the best known (at least in the UK) would be the GPO Clock No.36 or other silent electric variants.  The originator of the toggle switch was a Swiss gentleman by the name of Matheus Hipp, so there are also many fine Swiss made clocks using the system, frequently under the name Favag.

Don't know if this helps, but it would probably be worthwhile doing it up as what is seen in the photo all looks OK.  Is it yours, or are you looking to buy it?

Best regards,
Ian R
Macclesfield, UK


-----Original Message-----
From: 72 E Graham Mitchell <gmclocks@...>
To: synchronome1 <synchronome1@groups.io>
Sent: Sun, 13 Jan 2019 10:09
Subject: [synchronomeelectricclock] Unknown clock ? home project?

Is the clock in the picture a recognisable project clock?
Thanks
Graham
Sydney


Unknown clock ? home project?

Graham Mitchell
 

Is the clock in the picture a recognisable project clock?
Thanks
Graham
Sydney


Re: Regulator style slave

RICHARD ADAMEK
 

I like the 'negative effect' dial Simon, although I hadn't considered the 1bps heartbeat before seeing the video - may need to find some sanity retaining method of quietening a bit.

I don't know why this dial pattern became popular for regulators but pre Shortt Synchronome they would have been standard in observatories as the most accurate clocks available (I assume at least if not more accurate than a marine chronometer but have never seen that defined !)

I'll have to have a dig through the stores to see what wheelwork and solenoids I might mash together.

Cheers

Richard




On Friday, 11 January 2019, 09:22:48 GMT, Simon Taylor <smktaylor1@...> wrote:


Hi Richard,

We had a Synchronome ‘observatory’ slave clock (That was my name for it). I have a video about it, so you can see if this is what you were thinking off.

Simon GPO clocks



Re: Pallet design

John Haine
 

Hello Ian, yes that would be much appreciated if you could please?

James, thank you for that bit of history.  I have an e-copy of FHJ's long book "Electric Clocks" which also has a slightly longer treatment.

As regards the top face of the pallet, I appreciate that in practice the roller should actually drop right at the edge of the curved face, but I have seen two arguments for a different shape.  One is to make it a dead roll, i.e. an arc of radius equal to the distance from pallet to suspension point.  The other is from the articles on Controlling the Shortt by Tim Voore, who suggests that the slight up-slope is to compensate for the small shift of the pendulum CG when the gravity arm bears on the pallet before the impulse.  Of course perhaps the main reason is just to give a bit of extra clearance!


Re: "...had tried to saw it in half." 😢The re-birth. 🥳

Ian Richardson
 

As you will see, such clocks are appreciated by all......

Ian R
Macclesfield, UK

(sorry, strictly speaking this is "off-topoic" because neither the clock nor the cat are either electric or Synchronome!)



Re: "...had tried to saw it in half." 😢The re-birth. 🥳

Simon Taylor
 

The video link did not come through on the copy and paste!
https://youtu.be/15TrCD3zg3k
--
Simon GPO Clocks

http://www.lightstraw.co.uk/gpo/clocksystems/index.html


"...had tried to saw it in half." 😢The re-birth. 🥳

Simon Taylor
 

And so to the final part. the battery movements were replaced with a pair of Synchronome types, mainly as I didn't have any E.C.S. ones. The GPO factory at Holloway frequently refurbished clocks and it was quite usual to see parts from different manufacturers in one clock and it even has a refurbish code in there for September 1966 (FHR 9/66), so that is very fitting.

IMG_20190108_134853.jpgAlthough I am quite partial to a little 'Rock 'n Roll' the clock probably would not appreciate it and so a little work was needed to the bracket where it would meet the wall.

IMG_20190108_123157.jpgA quick touch from an angle grinder and then a follow up with a file seemed to do the job.

IMG_20190108_135352.jpgSome paint would finish that off nicely!

By now, the clock room was becoming full and the Octagonal Bakelite 4A would have to be moved. I still had one peice of glass to get, a minute hand to change and a face to clean up, but the clock would be shortly going to get a good view of the room!

IMG_20190108_135035.jpgWith the bracket up securely, it was time to mount the 50A.

Screenshot 2019-01-11 at 23.49.42pm.png
The 4A came down to be given a good place at the end of the room, and having connected up and advanced the clock circuit, I was pleasantly surprised to find that all did indeed work.

Screenshot 2019-01-11 at 23.52.32pm.png
After all the clock had been through, it was a real relive to hear and watch it step. It now has a future, being appreciated and maintained for now and for future generations. No less than it deserves!

Screenshot 2019-01-11 at 23.55.25pm.png

The person who sold me the clock was interested to know that it would be restored and so I made up a quick video showing it working.



--
Simon GPO Clocks

http://www.lightstraw.co.uk/gpo/clocksystems/index.html


Re: Magneta

John Howell
 

Hi Nick et al,

There must have still been confusion over the use of 'Magneta' in the 1930s. My father was a Rep. for Landis & Gyr and was tasked with getting an affidavit from each of his clients to the effect that they associated the Magneta brand with L & G. Sadly my father has passed away, but he did recall a large Martin Fischer Magneta in the factory lobby in North Acton, London.

Best Regards,

John Howell.



On 11/01/2019 21:40, Niklaus Maag wrote:

Dear All,

After quiet some silence in the past years I'm really surprised of the echo the name Magneta created in the new group. As some of the group members know I have been researching the Swiss side of the history of Magneta and its inventor Martin Fischer. This research resulted in a 18 pages illustrated article in German which was published in the bulletin of Chronometrophilia in summer 2009. Since then I was able to consult the archive of Landis & Gyr who in 1920 took over Magneta. 1922 the name Inducta was registered which replaced the name Magneta in later years. The archive was a mine of information and in my opinion the history of Magneta, where James had a good start with the U.K., should be extended with other countries like Germany, France, United States etc.

Best regards,

Nick Maag, Switzerland
Vice President Chronometrophilia


Re: Magneta

Niklaus Maag
 

Dear All,

After quiet some silence in the past years I'm really surprised of the echo the name Magneta created in the new group. As some of the group members know I have been researching the Swiss side of the history of Magneta and its inventor Martin Fischer. This research resulted in a 18 pages illustrated article in German which was published in the bulletin of Chronometrophilia in summer 2009. Since then I was able to consult the archive of Landis & Gyr who in 1920 took over Magneta. 1922 the name Inducta was registered which replaced the name Magneta in later years. The archive was a mine of information and in my opinion the history of Magneta, where James had a good start with the U.K., should be extended with other countries like Germany, France, United States etc.

Best regards,

Nick Maag, Switzerland
Vice President Chronometrophilia


Re: Regulator style slave

RICHARD ADAMEK
 

Thanks Simon, Jim beat you to it and I've now seen them :)  but there may be others unfamiliar with the new platform scratching their heads like I was, glad to follow the link  :)

Richard

On Friday, 11 January 2019, 20:36:25 GMT, Simon Taylor <smktaylor1@...> wrote:


Hi Richard, 

it is in the online group.

Hopefully the following link will take you to the photo album…


Simon GPO clocks




Re: Regulator style slave

Simon Taylor
 

Hi Richard, 

it is in the online group.

Hopefully the following link will take you to the photo album…


Simon GPO clocks





On 11 Jan 2019, at 19:25pm, RICHARD ADAMEK via Groups.Io <oldenginehouse@...> wrote:

Thanks Gentlemen all for your useful info, 

I may have missed something earlier in the life of this new platform Jim, not quite certain where to look for the photo section - perhaps I'm just a dafter old fart than I thought ;)

On Friday, 11 January 2019, 17:03:50 GMT, James Kelly via Groups.Io <jimfortress@...> wrote:


Richard, Simon and Chris,
 
There is a file in the photos section titled Synchronome Astronomical slaves, there are a number of images in there of both dial and movemnets.

Regards

Jim


--
Simon GPO Clocks

http://www.lightstraw.co.uk/gpo/clocksystems/index.html


Re: Magneta and also Bowell

James Kelly
 

Hi Simon

Sorry must clean my glasses I interpreted the reflections on the bob as different shaped bob, now Ive had a second look I can see its original

Mea culpa, my mistake, must try harder.

Jim


Re: Magneta and also Bowell

Simon Taylor
 

I er… WHAT?

Are you sure, I thought it looked the same. It might be the pendulum centring register that is below it, so I will add a further two photos of same clock.



Best I got (ebay photos!)



On 11 Jan 2019, at 19:11pm, James Kelly via Groups.Io <jimfortress@...> wrote:

Hi Simon

Thanks For the additional information< I can see now that the SECC PO 16 image from your earlier post has had the pendulumn bob changed to a non standard shape

Glad you like the new groups.io platform its a lot better than the old Yahoo one

regards

Jim



--
Simon GPO Clocks

http://www.lightstraw.co.uk/gpo/clocksystems/index.html


Re: Pallet design

Ken Strauss
 

Got it and thanks!

I resaved as an Acrobat 9 or later version which is only about 18MB if anyone wants a slightly smaller version.

 

From: synchronome1@groups.io [mailto:synchronome1@groups.io] On Behalf Of Ian Lonsdale
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 12:01 PM
To: synchronome1@groups.io
Subject: Re: [synchronomeelectricclock] Pallet design

 

For Jurgen and Ken,

 

File is on its way as requested

 

You should get a link to WeTransfer in your email shortly

 

Just follow the link and that will allow you to download the PDF

 

Kind regards

Ian Lonsdale

 

From: synchronome1@groups.io <synchronome1@groups.io> On Behalf Of Jürgen Hoefeld
Sent: 11 January 2019 11:42
To: synchronome1@groups.io
Subject: Re: [synchronomeelectricclock] Pallet design

 

Hi Ian,

do you think it would be possible to send this file also to me?

 

Thank you very much in advance.

 

Yours, 

Juergen 

 

Juergen Hoefeld

Aachen, Germany

 

Am Fr., 11. Jan. 2019 um 11:53 Uhr schrieb Ian Lonsdale <ian.lonsdale@...>:

John,

 

The extract came from a series of articles published in Engineering in Miniature between Jan 1987 to May 1988

 

I can send the complete series in PDF (28mb) to you via WeTransfer.com if you want

 

Regards

Ian Lonsdale

 

From: synchronome1@groups.io <synchronome1@groups.io> On Behalf Of John Haine
Sent: 10 January 2019 20:37
To: synchronome1@groups.io
Subject: Re: [synchronomeelectricclock] Pallet design

 

Wow!  Thanks for all the quick replies.

Ian, noted that the ideal shape is probably not going to work any better.  Even the "ideal" shape is based on the notion that a raised-sine impulse waveform is optimum, with no real reason why.  As I have a little CNC mill I could form the shape almost as easily as the circular arc.

Peter, I think those pages are almost the same as what I have in "Electric Clocks and How to Make Them" - again the drawing lacks one dimension.

Ian, thanks for that article - very useful!  I think that is from HJ?  Could you say when it was published please?  Now that HJ is online from 1858 to 2000 I should be able to download the whole series.

Geoff, "HSN" is a newsletter published by the NAWCC, sort of the American equivalent of the BHI, it's for oddities like me who still find the physics of pendulums and things interesting.  Not a very wide circulation I fear.

Thanks again all - I'm sure I'll have many more questions.

John.


Re: Pallet design

Jürgen Hoefeld
 

Thank you very much, Ian. This helps a lot to plan a possible build of this magnificent clock.

Best regards, Juergen

Am Fr., 11. Jan. 2019 um 18:01 Uhr schrieb Ian Lonsdale <ian.lonsdale@...>:

For Jurgen and Ken,

 

File is on its way as requested

 

You should get a link to WeTransfer in your email shortly

 

Just follow the link and that will allow you to download the PDF

 

Kind regards

Ian Lonsdale

 

From: synchronome1@groups.io <synchronome1@groups.io> On Behalf Of Jürgen Hoefeld
Sent: 11 January 2019 11:42
To: synchronome1@groups.io
Subject: Re: [synchronomeelectricclock] Pallet design

 

Hi Ian,

do you think it would be possible to send this file also to me?

 

Thank you very much in advance.

 

Yours, 

Juergen 

 

Juergen Hoefeld

Aachen, Germany

 

Am Fr., 11. Jan. 2019 um 11:53 Uhr schrieb Ian Lonsdale <ian.lonsdale@...>:

John,

 

The extract came from a series of articles published in Engineering in Miniature between Jan 1987 to May 1988

 

I can send the complete series in PDF (28mb) to you via WeTransfer.com if you want

 

Regards

Ian Lonsdale

 

From: synchronome1@groups.io <synchronome1@groups.io> On Behalf Of John Haine
Sent: 10 January 2019 20:37
To: synchronome1@groups.io
Subject: Re: [synchronomeelectricclock] Pallet design

 

Wow!  Thanks for all the quick replies.

Ian, noted that the ideal shape is probably not going to work any better.  Even the "ideal" shape is based on the notion that a raised-sine impulse waveform is optimum, with no real reason why.  As I have a little CNC mill I could form the shape almost as easily as the circular arc.

Peter, I think those pages are almost the same as what I have in "Electric Clocks and How to Make Them" - again the drawing lacks one dimension.

Ian, thanks for that article - very useful!  I think that is from HJ?  Could you say when it was published please?  Now that HJ is online from 1858 to 2000 I should be able to download the whole series.

Geoff, "HSN" is a newsletter published by the NAWCC, sort of the American equivalent of the BHI, it's for oddities like me who still find the physics of pendulums and things interesting.  Not a very wide circulation I fear.

Thanks again all - I'm sure I'll have many more questions.

John.


Re: Regulator style slave

RICHARD ADAMEK
 

Thanks Gentlemen all for your useful info, 

I may have missed something earlier in the life of this new platform Jim, not quite certain where to look for the photo section - perhaps I'm just a dafter old fart than I thought ;)

On Friday, 11 January 2019, 17:03:50 GMT, James Kelly via Groups.Io <jimfortress@...> wrote:


Richard, Simon and Chris,
 
There is a file in the photos section titled Synchronome Astronomical slaves, there are a number of images in there of both dial and movemnets.

Regards

Jim


Re: Magneta and also Bowell

James Kelly
 

Hi Simon

Thanks For the additional information< I can see now that the SECC PO 16 image from your earlier post has had the pendulumn bob changed to a non standard shape

Glad you like the new groups.io platform its a lot better than the old Yahoo one

regards

Jim

On Friday, 11 January 2019, 18:05:53 GMT, Simon Taylor <smktaylor1@...> wrote:


Hi Jim, 

I was going to show a photo of another clock, but just had an inspiration. 

On my site is a copy of the first GPO clock manual as it were from October 1927, which has a description of the clock 16 and two drawings. GPO drawings tended to be exact down to the bow in the wires and the position of the screws!.
Here they are…

.


here is a link to the 1927 document. It is in the form of a .jpg gallery.

There is also the early Martin Fisher Magneta system detailed here.

Simon GPO clocks



On 11 Jan 2019, at 18:52pm, James Kelly via Groups.Io <jimfortress@...> wrote:

Hi Simon

With regard to your image of the SECC P.O. 16 clock I have not seen one with that shape of pendulum bob do you think its original

regards

Jim


--
Simon GPO Clocks

http://www.lightstraw.co.uk/gpo/clocksystems/index.html


Re: Magneta and also Bowell

Simon Taylor
 
Edited

Hi Jim, 

I was going to show a photo of another clock, but just had an inspiration. 

On my site is a copy of the first GPO clock manual as it were from October 1927, which has a description of the clock 16 and two drawings. GPO drawings tended to be exact down to the bow in the wires and the position of the screws!.
Here they are…



here is a link to the 1927 document. It is in the form of a .jpg gallery.

There is also the early Martin Fisher Magneta system detailed here.

Simon GPO clocks



On 11 Jan 2019, at 18:52pm, James Kelly via Groups.Io <jimfortress@...> wrote:

Hi Simon

With regard to your image of the SECC P.O. 16 clock I have not seen one with that shape of pendulum bob do you think its original

regards

Jim


--
Simon GPO Clocks

http://www.lightstraw.co.uk/gpo/clocksystems/index.html


Re: Magneta and also Bowell

James Kelly
 

Hi Simon

With regard to your image of the SECC P.O. 16 clock I have not seen one with that shape of pendulum bob do you think its original

regards

Jim


Re: Regulator style slave

Simon Taylor
 

Brilliant Jim,
nice to see others. That first one with the black dial is the one we had running on the system in the shop and a link to a video of it is earlier in this topic!
 
Simon GPO Clocks

http://www.lightstraw.co.uk/gpo/clocksystems/index.html

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