Date   

Bounce in gravity arm

bailey.services@...
 

How much bounce should you expect in the gravity arm, I am occasionally seeing a double impulse where it fails to latch. Reducing the current to slow things down gives unreliable advance of the pilot dial.

The latch and leather wing had been crushed together and gripped the catch on the gravity arm, I have straightened these but think the leather wing looks a bit high, bending it down so it meets the rising catch sooner and at a more acute angle would presumably slow the motion.

The leather is replaced wasn’t sure how thick it should be.

Any thoughts?
Howard


Bob Miles collection

James Nye
 

Dear All,

 

Bob’s executors have finally arranged for the sale of his clocks. You can find them at Cheffins,  Cambridge on 17 June, lots 231-374 (https://www.cheffins.co.uk/fine-art/catalogue-view,the-interiors-sale_191.htm)

 

All the best,

 

James

 


Re: DRIVING SLAVE SYNCHRONOME DIALS WITHOUT A MASTER CLOCK PRESENT?

 

Hi Chris,

I am in East Sussex, Bexhill in fact.  Not too far from Hailsham.  I have restored a few of these clocks to working order.  Without seeing yours it is difficult to know the fault.  I see one responder here suggested a video.  I have used that technique myself.  It is an excellent suggestion.  Running and then stopping means that there is not enough power getting through to the pendulum.  If you do not get it running I am willing to take a look for the price of a cup of coffee.

Let me know.

Regards,

Simon

On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 at 21:29, Peter Torry via groups.io <peter.torry=talktalk.net@groups.io> wrote:
Chris,

I can really recommend joining the Antiquarian Horological Society's
Electrical Horology Group as you will have available a wealth of
information from nearly 100 technical papers.

https://www.ahsoc.org/groups/electrical-horology-group/

Regards

Peter



On 02/06/2021 18:48, Chris Wollaston wrote:
> Hi Howard & Chris & All, I really do appreciate all the advice you
> chaps are offering, it's very kind and considerate. Here's a
> background to my rather headlong dive into electro-mechanical clocks
> these past 2 years:
>







--
Simon


Re: ANTIQUARIAN HOROLOGICAL SOC. ELECTRICAL GP.

Chris Wollaston
 

Hi Geoff, Many tks for your i/p and yes, on this means I'm already gratefully receiving helpful advice about my 'reluctant-to-run' electro-mech clocks.  I just wish I had your many years of experience under my belt to tackle the issues. Re AHS & EHGp, naturally, I do know a wee bit about them as I've already bought the Society's 3 publications by Bob Miles, Brillie, Bulle & Synchronome Edn2 - a beautifully illustrated tome which I've been devouring.
However, I'm at the stage now with my 1925 Synchronome & 1960 Inducta where I require practical on-site instruction from someone who knows what they are doing so I can watch, listen & learn. (I am prepared to pay reasonable expenses as I feel it's very important to get this set up absolutely right.)
I'd be delighted to discuss EHGp and some of the current issues with you on the phone and look forward to your call - early evening would probably be preferable.
Very Best Regards, Chris in E Sussex  m: 07970 530655


Re: ANTIQUARIAN HOROLOGICAL SOC. ELECTRICAL GP.

ffolliott
 

Hi  Chris...well I have been a member of the AHS and the EHG for over twenty years with a pre-internet  interest in clocks three times this long going back to my school days - this is just a hobby but the benefits of AHS membership only seem to go on increasing. You can inhabit and tap into a world of like minded enthusiasts not only with emails but some meet-ups within a well organised framework of input to support an interest at all levels.  This may provide information, research material, talks and lectures at a source point. If nothing else the availability of instant digitalised searchable research material of past periodicals, publications , video lectures and past members technical papers on various topics are worth the cost of the membership alone. 
 
This is a personal opinion but reflects the " make of it what you will" benefits as I see them.
 
All best
 
Tic Toc ....Geoff
 
 
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2021 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: [synchronomeelectricclock] ANTIQUARIAN HOROLOGICAL SOC. ELECTRICAL GP.

Hello Peter, tks for the recommendation and yes, I did consider it a few months ago plus took some advice from clock enthusiasts and dealers locally who were a bit dismissive due to annual cost of membership. For me as a beginner with all sorts of clocks I have collected around my house, I did worry that it's a bit 'hi-brow' and deep techy so perhaps when I've actually had a chance to meet a few members in person and discuss the situation I might reconsider.
I'm one of those people who love mechanical things and like to see them in action and talk to the owner face-to-face to soak up the enthusiasm and passion.
I'm finding this constant sitting at a keyboard bashing keys sending emails rather sterile and frustrating and v puzzled why there's not a willingness to pick up a phone and have a chat or meet on a Zoom to show stuff live?
Anyway, thanks for the heads up on AHS. Bests, Chris in E Sussex 07970 530655 I use WhatsApp and it's free!!!

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Re: ANTIQUARIAN HOROLOGICAL SOC. ELECTRICAL GP.

H Hal
 

Chris,


I'm a little late to the thread so you may well have answered before....have you posted a video..with sound of your troubled clock so we can hear and see it....such videos are very useful for this.

You appear to be ict literate and "willing" to share, so let's see it


regards


hal

On 03/06/2021 15:33, Chris Wollaston wrote:
Hello Peter, tks for the recommendation and yes, I did consider it a few months ago plus took some advice from clock enthusiasts and dealers locally who were a bit dismissive due to annual cost of membership. For me as a beginner with all sorts of clocks I have collected around my house, I did worry that it's a bit 'hi-brow' and deep techy so perhaps when I've actually had a chance to meet a few members in person and discuss the situation I might reconsider.
I'm one of those people who love mechanical things and like to see them in action and talk to the owner face-to-face to soak up the enthusiasm and passion.
I'm finding this constant sitting at a keyboard bashing keys sending emails rather sterile and frustrating and v puzzled why there's not a willingness to pick up a phone and have a chat or meet on a Zoom to show stuff live?
Anyway, thanks for the heads up on AHS. Bests, Chris in E Sussex 07970 530655 I use WhatsApp and it's free!!!


Re: ANTIQUARIAN HOROLOGICAL SOC. ELECTRICAL GP.

Chris Wollaston
 

Hello Peter, tks for the recommendation and yes, I did consider it a few months ago plus took some advice from clock enthusiasts and dealers locally who were a bit dismissive due to annual cost of membership. For me as a beginner with all sorts of clocks I have collected around my house, I did worry that it's a bit 'hi-brow' and deep techy so perhaps when I've actually had a chance to meet a few members in person and discuss the situation I might reconsider.
I'm one of those people who love mechanical things and like to see them in action and talk to the owner face-to-face to soak up the enthusiasm and passion.
I'm finding this constant sitting at a keyboard bashing keys sending emails rather sterile and frustrating and v puzzled why there's not a willingness to pick up a phone and have a chat or meet on a Zoom to show stuff live?
Anyway, thanks for the heads up on AHS. Bests, Chris in E Sussex 07970 530655 I use WhatsApp and it's free!!!


Re: GPS Time Reference

Peter Torry
 

For a low cost option have a look at the kits from  https://www.qrp-labs.com/

They have many interesting units for GNSS, clocks and synthetic crystals etc.

Regards

Peter  UK


On 03/06/2021 08:34, Darren Conway wrote:

Hi Neil

Do you have a Trademe auction number?

I am currently looking down the DIY lab frequency standard rabbit hole and it is looking a lot deeper than $40.

It looks like many of the Aliexpress U-Blox Neo gps modules are probably fake and gps based time has high phase noise.

The cheap fake gps modules would be just fine for running slaves or comparing against a master.


Regards

Darren Conway
36 Orr Crescent
Lower Hutt
New Zealand
ph +64  (0)4 569 1963

On 3.06.21 4:19 pm, neil wrote:
Hi Darren,
                     there is a chap in the SI who makes and sells such a unit on Trademe for $40. It has a GPS receiver and a nice little LCD display showing the GPS lat & Long and the time in HHMMSS all for $40.

Neil Jepsen. B.Sc. M.Sc(Hons).CPL.MASNZ.
Jepsen Acoustics & Electronics Ltd
22 Domain Street
Palmerston North.
New Zealand.
Ph +64 6 3577539  Mob 0274428094
Web site: www.noiseandweather.co.nz
          www.noiseandweather.com
E.& O.E.
On 2/06/2021 10:51 pm, Darren Conway wrote:

Hi

I have been looking at using a GPS receiver to use as reference time for a RF signal generator upgrade.

I have also been working on developing a arduino based controller  that will drive both a Solari Udine Cifra 12 and Synchronome slave clocks from a Synchronome master.

It would not be difficult to add a GPS receiver to the Arduino controller that would either replace the Master or accurately measure the Master error.

My plan was to make just one controller for me but I thought perhaps others might want one.  Is that something anyone else would like to own?


Regards

Darren Conway
New Zealand




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Re: GPS Time Reference

Darren Conway
 

Hi Neil

Do you have a Trademe auction number?

I am currently looking down the DIY lab frequency standard rabbit hole and it is looking a lot deeper than $40.

It looks like many of the Aliexpress U-Blox Neo gps modules are probably fake and gps based time has high phase noise.

The cheap fake gps modules would be just fine for running slaves or comparing against a master.


Regards

Darren Conway
36 Orr Crescent
Lower Hutt
New Zealand
ph +64  (0)4 569 1963

On 3.06.21 4:19 pm, neil wrote:
Hi Darren,
                     there is a chap in the SI who makes and sells such a unit on Trademe for $40. It has a GPS receiver and a nice little LCD display showing the GPS lat & Long and the time in HHMMSS all for $40.

Neil Jepsen. B.Sc. M.Sc(Hons).CPL.MASNZ.
Jepsen Acoustics & Electronics Ltd
22 Domain Street
Palmerston North.
New Zealand.
Ph +64 6 3577539  Mob 0274428094
Web site: www.noiseandweather.co.nz
          www.noiseandweather.com
E.& O.E.
On 2/06/2021 10:51 pm, Darren Conway wrote:

Hi

I have been looking at using a GPS receiver to use as reference time for a RF signal generator upgrade.

I have also been working on developing a arduino based controller  that will drive both a Solari Udine Cifra 12 and Synchronome slave clocks from a Synchronome master.

It would not be difficult to add a GPS receiver to the Arduino controller that would either replace the Master or accurately measure the Master error.

My plan was to make just one controller for me but I thought perhaps others might want one.  Is that something anyone else would like to own?


Regards

Darren Conway
New Zealand




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Re: GPS Time Reference

neil
 

Hi Darren,
                     there is a chap in the SI who makes and sells such a unit on Trademe for $40. It has a GPS receiver and a nice little LCD display showing the GPS lat & Long and the time in HHMMSS all for $40.

Neil Jepsen. B.Sc. M.Sc(Hons).CPL.MASNZ.
Jepsen Acoustics & Electronics Ltd
22 Domain Street
Palmerston North.
New Zealand.
Ph +64 6 3577539  Mob 0274428094
Web site: www.noiseandweather.co.nz
          www.noiseandweather.com  
E.& O.E.
On 2/06/2021 10:51 pm, Darren Conway wrote:

Hi

I have been looking at using a GPS receiver to use as reference time for a RF signal generator upgrade.

I have also been working on developing a arduino based controller  that will drive both a Solari Udine Cifra 12 and Synchronome slave clocks from a Synchronome master.

It would not be difficult to add a GPS receiver to the Arduino controller that would either replace the Master or accurately measure the Master error.

My plan was to make just one controller for me but I thought perhaps others might want one.  Is that something anyone else would like to own?


Regards

Darren Conway
New Zealand




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This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Re: DRIVING SLAVE SYNCHRONOME DIALS WITHOUT A MASTER CLOCK PRESENT?

Peter Torry
 

Chris,

I can really recommend joining the Antiquarian Horological Society's Electrical Horology Group as you will have available a wealth of information from nearly 100 technical papers.

https://www.ahsoc.org/groups/electrical-horology-group/

Regards

Peter

On 02/06/2021 18:48, Chris Wollaston wrote:
Hi Howard & Chris & All, I really do appreciate all the advice you chaps are offering, it's very kind and considerate. Here's a background to my rather headlong dive into electro-mechanical clocks these past 2 years:


Re: DRIVING SLAVE SYNCHRONOME DIALS WITHOUT A MASTER CLOCK PRESENT?

Chris Wollaston
 

Hi Howard & Chris & All, I really do appreciate all the advice you chaps are offering, it's very kind and considerate. Here's a background to my rather headlong dive into electro-mechanical clocks these past 2 years:
Last year I bought a Brillie on eBay and went to collect it Nr Swindon. It was sold as a non-runner. I bought Bob Miles's translations of Brillie & Bulle clocks plus his lovely tomb on Synchronomes, 2nd Edn. I've subsequently managed to get the Brillie mounted and running - hooray!
I also bought a Bullette from Clocks on the Moors - it's not yet a proper runner despite being sold as such.
I collected a splendid Synchronome in architectural case with 1925 movement, Serial 1152. The chap I collected it from had bought it from a dealer but had never got it going. I've found out why......the pendulum was incorrect and the bob only 9.25lbs!! Jim has supplied me with the correct pendulum, spring, trunnion, & 16lb bob.
I've studied Miles' and tvtesla instrs on wall mounting - massive solid wall, plumbed vertical and screwed firmly in 4 places.
Jim discovered the catch on the gravity arm that engages the latch has been botched, it's not all steel, someone has glued on a fat finger of copper.
He is looking for a pukka replacement or making me one but if anyone has a spare I'm v happy to buy it?
We've set the jewel on the end of the gathering arm to just brush over the top of each tooth on the count wheel, not drop into the V between teeth.
At the mo the vane takes 2 successive pulls of the count wheel teeth before the latch parts company with the too thick botched catch - appreciated this is incorrect....
I've studied Ch 13 of Miles intensely but Fig 13/2 doesn't clearly show the exact relationship of the roller to the impulse slope when the pendulum is dead centre.
Fig 13/7 is a good close up but leaves out where the pendulum is in this relationship and the roller appears to be well away from the pallet slope?
Jim changed my 4.5V DC pack of 3xD brand new Duracells which I was told would drive the pilot and return the gravity arm as providing insufficient current - 330mA as per the manual, so we're now using a 12V, 7Ah sealed lead acid bty and a rheostat from a Gent.
I'm hoping things will improve with a pukka catch which could be the key to the whole issue BUT, there are so many variables in the movement setup that not having sufficient experience is a major disadvantage. I'm convinced that setting up the majority of these clocks is a definite skill which I haven't yet acquired.
Anyway, thanks again for all the advice, I look forward to a replacement catch and a visit from a person with the skill whereupon I'll watch and learn avidly!
I'm determined to get this clock running correctly eventually plus I have 2 beautiful Synchronome slaves in wood and a Smiths Programmer waiting in the wings! Bests, Chris in E Sussex.


Re: DRIVING SLAVE SYNCHRONOME DIALS WITHOUT A MASTER CLOCK PRESENT?

bailey.services@...
 

If someone has spent 5 hours on it without success then there must be a problem! And the obvious has probably already been tried. But as per Ian’s advice depth of gathering arm is critical, if you watch the count wheel and it moves counterclockwise as the gathering arm swings back to the left to take another bite then that’s wrong, the gathering arm is set too low.

Another point to check is the suspension spring, the book I think says 5 thou (0.127mm) which is pretty flexible, last clock I fiddled with had a spring of 0.4mm 3 and a bit times thicker, extra weight had been added to the gravity arm to compensate but may never have worked. I’m sure others have seen similar bodges?

I think we would all like to see the video!

Howard


Re: DRIVING SLAVE SYNCHRONOME DIALS with an EC4A

Chris
 

Chris,

It seems too obvious to those with experience, but:
Is your Synchronome upright and on a rigid wall.
Stud walls with plasterboard aren't very stiff.

Having another master clock on the same wall may upset the Synchronome.
It certainly did mine. This has to do with synchronicity and pendulum phase.

Early Synchronome movements had short, fat wood screws to hold them to the case.
These screws are fixed into very inadequate timber crossbars behind the back board.
Make sure the movement, base plate is firmly fixed to the case.
Some may choose to drill into a masonry wall and fit plugs for longer screws.

Chris.B



On 02/06/2021 16:41, Chris Wollaston wrote:
Hi Bob, tks for the info on the EC4A clock driver on the www.electric-clocks.co.uk website run by Mark in Cambridgeshire.  I spoke to Mark and the product sounded useful so I've ordered one. (At least I should be able to get a couple of Sync slaves running in the house whilst the master is awaiting some experienced tlc!) Smiles, Chris.


Re: DRIVING SLAVE SYNCHRONOME DIALS with an EC4A

Chris Wollaston
 

Hi Bob, tks for the info on the EC4A clock driver on the www.electric-clocks.co.uk website run by Mark in Cambridgeshire.  I spoke to Mark and the product sounded useful so I've ordered one. (At least I should be able to get a couple of Sync slaves running in the house whilst the master is awaiting some experienced tlc!) Smiles, Chris.


Re: DRIVING SLAVE SYNCHRONOME DIALS WITHOUT A MASTER CLOCK PRESENT?

H Hal
 

hello Chris,


did you ever post a video of it "working", viewing and listening can give much information to enable a diagnosis


regards


hal

uk

On 02/06/2021 12:05, Chris Wollaston wrote:
Hi Ian and all, With your wonderful experience gathered over many years of dozens of Synchronome Masters & 6 working at home, would you like to pop round to my home in E Sussex and breath life into my 1925 master!! I can provide lunch and a modest contribution to travel expenses so long as it's not Scotland hoho!
I'm new to Synchronome ownership and please believe me, it's extremely frustrating having followed Miles to the letter with kind help from Jim who worked on it for 5 hours BUT still it won't run.
I'm not joking, these clocks are old pieces of machinery and need experienced maintainers. I'm definitely NOT experienced BUT dearly want it set up and operational and need on-site HELP please.  I'm so exasperated with it that I am willing to pay someone to travel to me to set it up and instruct me on how to keep it operational. Otherwise it's just a nice architectural mahogany case with a clock inside as an expensive ornament on the wall in my hall!!
IMHO that's not funny and not cost effective. Bests, Chris in E Sussex.  My telephone is 07970 530655. Pse call or send me an email with your no. and I'll call.


Re: DRIVING SLAVE SYNCHRONOME DIALS WITHOUT A MASTER CLOCK PRESENT?

Ian Richardson
 

Chris et al,

A visit would be nice, but out of the question for many reasons.  Maybe one day.

All the setting up details are freely available (I helped write the setting up and maintenance section of Bob Miles' book) but the secrets of success may not all be obvious from that.  What follows is all on the assumption that the air gaps etc are set as per "normal" instructions.

If you remove the gathering click and let your pendulum swing on its own, how long will it swing?  The support at the top must be rigid (if there is any tendency to move, that will rob energy from the pendulum).

Hold back the gravity arm latch and backstop click and spin the countwheel with your finger - it should run very freely with no interference from other parts of the mechanism.

The next thing is to replace the gathering click, but tie the gravity arm up with a bit of wire so that it won't drop.  Then swing the pendulum again while the gathering click advances the countwheel and see how long it takes to decay compared with swinging free.  As mentioned earlier, the gathering click should ONLY JUST gather one tooth at time.  Any more and that also robs energy from the pendulum.

Every 30 seconds, the vane on the countwheel arbor flips the gravity arm latch - another source of energy loss.  Make sure that the spring on the gravity arm latch is just strong enough to replace the latch.

Now, the ONLY source of energy input is the falling of the gravity arm.  That energy input must balance the combined drains mentioned above.

If you look at the clock as a whole with these thoughts in mind, you may be able to focus on where the greatest energy loss is, or why there isn't enough energy input.

Give it a go - you might surprise yourself!

Best regards,
Ian R



-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Wollaston <chris@...>
To: synchronome1@groups.io
Sent: Wed, 2 Jun 2021 13:05
Subject: Re: [synchronomeelectricclock] DRIVING SLAVE SYNCHRONOME DIALS WITHOUT A MASTER CLOCK PRESENT?

Hi Ian and all, With your wonderful experience gathered over many years of dozens of Synchronome Masters & 6 working at home, would you like to pop round to my home in E Sussex and breath life into my 1925 master!! I can provide lunch and a modest contribution to travel expenses so long as it's not Scotland hoho!
I'm new to Synchronome ownership and please believe me, it's extremely frustrating having followed Miles to the letter with kind help from Jim who worked on it for 5 hours BUT still it won't run.
I'm not joking, these clocks are old pieces of machinery and need experienced maintainers. I'm definitely NOT experienced BUT dearly want it set up and operational and need on-site HELP please.  I'm so exasperated with it that I am willing to pay someone to travel to me to set it up and instruct me on how to keep it operational. Otherwise it's just a nice architectural mahogany case with a clock inside as an expensive ornament on the wall in my hall!!
IMHO that's not funny and not cost effective. Bests, Chris in E Sussex.  My telephone is 07970 530655. Pse call or send me an email with your no. and I'll call.


Re: DRIVING SLAVE SYNCHRONOME DIALS WITHOUT A MASTER CLOCK PRESENT?

Chris Wollaston
 

Hi Ian and all, With your wonderful experience gathered over many years of dozens of Synchronome Masters & 6 working at home, would you like to pop round to my home in E Sussex and breath life into my 1925 master!! I can provide lunch and a modest contribution to travel expenses so long as it's not Scotland hoho!
I'm new to Synchronome ownership and please believe me, it's extremely frustrating having followed Miles to the letter with kind help from Jim who worked on it for 5 hours BUT still it won't run.
I'm not joking, these clocks are old pieces of machinery and need experienced maintainers. I'm definitely NOT experienced BUT dearly want it set up and operational and need on-site HELP please.  I'm so exasperated with it that I am willing to pay someone to travel to me to set it up and instruct me on how to keep it operational. Otherwise it's just a nice architectural mahogany case with a clock inside as an expensive ornament on the wall in my hall!!
IMHO that's not funny and not cost effective. Bests, Chris in E Sussex.  My telephone is 07970 530655. Pse call or send me an email with your no. and I'll call.


Re: GPS Time Reference

Andy Barclay1
 

Darren

I would be interested in this time source but I need it for a different purpose to provide a time source for Synchronome Distribution board.

Regards

Andy Barclay


"Darren Conway" ---02/06/2021 11:51:33---Hi I have been looking at using a GPS receiver to use as reference time for

From: "Darren Conway" <darren.conway@...>
To: synchronome1@groups.io
Date: 02/06/2021 11:51
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [synchronomeelectricclock] GPS Time Reference
Sent by: synchronome1@groups.io





Hi I have been looking at using a GPS receiver to use as reference time for a RF signal generator upgrade. I have also been working on developing a arduino based controller  that will drive both a Solari Udine Cifra 12 and Synchronome slave ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerStart 
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Hi

I have been looking at using a GPS receiver to use as reference time for a RF signal generator upgrade.

I have also been working on developing a arduino based controller  that will drive both a Solari Udine Cifra 12 and Synchronome slave clocks from a Synchronome master.

It would not be difficult to add a GPS receiver to the Arduino controller that would either replace the Master or accurately measure the Master error.

My plan was to make just one controller for me but I thought perhaps others might want one.  Is that something anyone else would like to own?


Regards

Darren Conway
New Zealand





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GPS Time Reference

Darren Conway
 

Hi

I have been looking at using a GPS receiver to use as reference time for a RF signal generator upgrade.

I have also been working on developing a arduino based controller  that will drive both a Solari Udine Cifra 12 and Synchronome slave clocks from a Synchronome master.

It would not be difficult to add a GPS receiver to the Arduino controller that would either replace the Master or accurately measure the Master error.

My plan was to make just one controller for me but I thought perhaps others might want one.  Is that something anyone else would like to own?


Regards

Darren Conway
New Zealand




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