Topics

Greater Bavaria

 

Just thought I'd share this screenshot of my current game of Crusader Kings 2, playing as Bavaria. I've since made it the Empire of Carpathia, but borders are the same. Busy replacingthe Croats and Avars in my empire with good Catholic Germans. 

Started a game in 769AD as Bavaria under the Agilolfings. Charlemagne formed the Holy Roman Empire, I stayed good allies with them and there was no pretext for war so Bavaria remained independent. Saxons swore fealty to Charlemagne so there's no invasion. The HRE has been content int its borders ever since, though with frequent civil wars.

Despite repeated attempts to conquer Bohemia, they always beat me back thanks to help from Poland/Lithuania. I had better luck expanding east and south, as the Avar Khaganate broke up, with the territory split between me and the pagan Serbian tribes. Several wars against the Serbians resulted in my conquest of all of Pannonia. 

I want to clean up my borders a bit with Serbia and then will probably work on internal development, or maybe another try at Bohemia. Moving further east puts me in nomad territory, which is difficult to hold (they finally made realistic mechanics). I basically have to construct castles in each county I take from a nomadic tribe, or they end up reverting to the nomads. And they can pull together some huge armies. 

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/883126315883436730/7EE149F3AF968C5ACF2E1F65C17680B9C0CDD181/

markus baur
 

nice - please keep us updated ..

servus

markus

Am 20.09.2017 um 17:04 schrieb Andrew Gray:

Just thought I'd share this screenshot of my current game of Crusader Kings 2, playing as Bavaria. I've since made it the Empire of Carpathia, but borders are the same. Busy replacingthe Croats and Avars in my empire with good Catholic Germans.
Started a game in 769AD as Bavaria under the Agilolfings. Charlemagne formed the Holy Roman Empire, I stayed good allies with them and there was no pretext for war so Bavaria remained independent. Saxons swore fealty to Charlemagne so there's no invasion. The HRE has been content int its borders ever since, though with frequent civil wars.
Despite repeated attempts to conquer Bohemia, they always beat me back thanks to help from Poland/Lithuania. I had better luck expanding east and south, as the Avar Khaganate broke up, with the territory split between me and the pagan Serbian tribes. Several wars against the Serbians resulted in my conquest of all of Pannonia.
I want to clean up my borders a bit with Serbia and then will probably work on internal development, or maybe another try at Bohemia. Moving further east puts me in nomad territory, which is difficult to hold (they finally made realistic mechanics). I basically have to construct castles in each county I take from a nomadic tribe, or they end up reverting to the nomads. And they can pull together some huge armies.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/883126315883436730/7EE149F3AF968C5ACF2E1F65C17680B9C0CDD181/

--
markus baur SCA: markus von brixlegg
schluesselgasse 3/5 tel: +43 - (0)1 - 50 40 662
a-1040 wien email: baur@...
austria/europe icbm: 48°11'39"N; 16°22'06"E

a portrait: http://www.abcgallery.com/A/arcimboldo/arcimboldo9.html

"der Markus?? .... das ist der mit dem Buch..."

 

I will see your Bavaria and raise you...  The Common Wealth of Great Britain in the year of our Lord 1680 just after the completion of the 1st GB vs OE war that has brought England to the edge of Egypt!

 

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1139660680

What turned England into a total monster was a royal marriage between England and Castile.  King of Castile died without issue and England entered into personal union with England and Castile.  France declared war to protest the union and that allowed me to crush France and rip off big chunks.  It took a few more decades to finish the conquest of France but along the way Ireland, Brittany and Scotland fell also.  Portugal a long loyal ally ended up with a cadet branch of the Royal House of England on the throne. A quick war so Portugal added as another territory.  By now most of central Europe was allied against the Red blob known as Great Britain but no effect.  Started pushing against the western Borders of the Holy Roman Empire and pitched Aragon out of western Med, they are in Southern Italy now. 

For last few years have been alternating wars between Europe and North Africa.  Picking apart the Holy Roman Empire is proving difficult just so much territory to have to assimilate.  With having three of the electors as Client States once Cromwell dies may restore the Monarchy and attempt to make the British Monarch the Holy Roman Emperor.  Will have to see how far can advance vs. Ottomans they are so big that dismantling it is going to be a challenge. 

 

Bobby Hardenbrook
 


Nice, I see the HRE has spread westward. One of my favorite things about CK2 is watching to see how the HRE does.

Bobby


On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 8:04 AM Andrew Gray <aggray@...> wrote:
Just thought I'd share this screenshot of my current game of Crusader Kings 2, playing as Bavaria. I've since made it the Empire of Carpathia, but borders are the same. Busy replacingthe Croats and Avars in my empire with good Catholic Germans. 

Started a game in 769AD as Bavaria under the Agilolfings. Charlemagne formed the Holy Roman Empire, I stayed good allies with them and there was no pretext for war so Bavaria remained independent. Saxons swore fealty to Charlemagne so there's no invasion. The HRE has been content int its borders ever since, though with frequent civil wars.

Despite repeated attempts to conquer Bohemia, they always beat me back thanks to help from Poland/Lithuania. I had better luck expanding east and south, as the Avar Khaganate broke up, with the territory split between me and the pagan Serbian tribes. Several wars against the Serbians resulted in my conquest of all of Pannonia. 

I want to clean up my borders a bit with Serbia and then will probably work on internal development, or maybe another try at Bohemia. Moving further east puts me in nomad territory, which is difficult to hold (they finally made realistic mechanics). I basically have to construct castles in each county I take from a nomadic tribe, or they end up reverting to the nomads. And they can pull together some huge armies. 

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/883126315883436730/7EE149F3AF968C5ACF2E1F65C17680B9C0CDD181/

Bobby Hardenbrook
 

Great Britannia! ;)



On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 3:36 PM Michael Rohde <Mtrohde@...> wrote:

I will see your Bavaria and raise you...  The Common Wealth of Great Britain in the year of our Lord 1680 just after the completion of the 1st GB vs OE war that has brought England to the edge of Egypt!

 

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1139660680

What turned England into a total monster was a royal marriage between England and Castile.  King of Castile died without issue and England entered into personal union with England and Castile.  France declared war to protest the union and that allowed me to crush France and rip off big chunks.  It took a few more decades to finish the conquest of France but along the way Ireland, Brittany and Scotland fell also.  Portugal a long loyal ally ended up with a cadet branch of the Royal House of England on the throne. A quick war so Portugal added as another territory.  By now most of central Europe was allied against the Red blob known as Great Britain but no effect.  Started pushing against the western Borders of the Holy Roman Empire and pitched Aragon out of western Med, they are in Southern Italy now. 

For last few years have been alternating wars between Europe and North Africa.  Picking apart the Holy Roman Empire is proving difficult just so much territory to have to assimilate.  With having three of the electors as Client States once Cromwell dies may restore the Monarchy and attempt to make the British Monarch the Holy Roman Emperor.  Will have to see how far can advance vs. Ottomans they are so big that dismantling it is going to be a challenge. 

 

 

I give you, the fall of Constantinople: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/883126835004395273/0B753FF5AD913C8E4A0F2E0EAA5D2143C47D8A26/

The Byzantines have fragmented, though the Empire remains in part of Anatolia, Tunisa, Sicily, and the steppe: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/883126835004395616/0B9D559ABD23114B3029311391AEC67ACC437017/

The Kingdom of Bulgaria is the most powerful successor state, though the independent Greek states of Trebeziond and Achaia are powerful too. 

awbryan@...
 

You got renamed Carpathia? Or did you rename your empire yourself? It's intriguing as I don't think there ever *has* been a polity by that name.

"Bohemia" could almost be renamed "Poland" at this point; it's eaten most of the Poles. (Though of course "Lithuania" and "Poland" in OTL ate Belarus and Ukraine, respectively, for several centuries.)

Serbia somehow has holdings in Ruthenia and White Russia, and Estonia holds part of Muscovy. Not sure what's up with that. Then again, little about the history of the Russian interior other than the steady and insatiable diet of Muscovy-become-Russia makes sense for me, largely because it tends to be obscured by said gluttony. Large plain is large.

 

They have a bunch of potential kingdoms and empires for games that diverge a lot. Carpathia is basically Hungary + Wallachia. I formed it since Germania would require war with the HRE. Bohemia is a personal union of Poland and Bohemia, it will probably split. Russia is always a message in this period, they are a bunch of pagan Slavic tribes who shift fealty all the time. Serbia used to be a lot bigger, but they still have some tribes under them.

Bobby Hardenbrook
 


Much more western focused HRE at this point. Cool. You should continue it into EU4 ;) There is a converter for that.

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 3:14 PM Andrew Gray <aggray@...> wrote:
They have a bunch of potential kingdoms and empires for games that diverge a lot. Carpathia is basically Hungary + Wallachia. I formed it since Germania would require war with the HRE. Bohemia is a personal union of Poland and Bohemia, it will probably split. Russia is always a message in this period, they are a bunch of pagan Slavic tribes who shift fealty all the time. Serbia used to be a lot bigger, but they still have some tribes under them.

 

I took a bit more of Greece last night, as well as Serbia. I still need to officially gain the title King of Serbia, though. It looks like I'll probably have to go to war with Achaia to get the rest of Athens and force them to submit, they won't become my vassal willingly given the culture and religion differences. 

The whole map: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/891008249763604321/AA256C6534B7A0C7BDEFA664E4D869D5F112CC96/

Religion: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/891008249763604618/44CB758E123141B60CB18CB864E7B41F8551F64B/

 

Trying to push across Med right now, most recent war was vs.Tuscany, Savoy, Venice and Ottoman Empire.  It was a big strong alliance it took lots of effort to beat it down.  Especially as Ottoman's decided to fight it out in Northern Italy.  Austria gave Ottoman's right to cross their territory.  Austria is upset at GB for taking big chunks out of them last 100 years or so and holding a bunch of territory of HRE.  Ended up depleting GB's manpower reserves and was hiring tens of thousands of mercs infantry to keep pounding on the alliance.  Knocked Savoy out first, then Venice taking only Genoa, OE came to terms accepting loss of Alexandria and two other border provinces.  Tuscany was in bad shape at this point and the got dismembered losing most of central Italy.  Rome went back to Papacy which was the cause for war in first place.  GB came to Papacy's aid as "Defender of the Faith".  Will need to sit and recover a decade or more with the massive manpower losses, need 142,000 men just to get the armies back to strength.   

 

Italy before Med War 1694
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1149217624

Egypt before Med War 1694
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1149217664

Italy after Med War 1701
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1149217702

Egypt after Med War 1701
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1149217725

Dan Daast
 

There used to be a long, rather detailed, alt-history scenario back on Usenet position a departure point of the Guiscards turning their attentions toward Egypt instead of Byzantium, after they took Southern Italy and Sicily.

Looking at these maps, I wonder how things would have turned out if the OTL thrust into the Balkans by the Normans still occurred but Robert doesn't die of typhus, cutting the whole thing short. Between him and Bohemond they had a good chance of getting to Constantinople and probably bribing their way, by the end.

 

One of the game mechanics that aggravates me is its hard to overrun a big empire in the game.  Each time I have gone to war with OE by the time they are willing to make peace I am deep into Anatolia but its maybe a 40-50% win rating and I can take perhaps 2 to 3 provinces from them.

 

As to your point several times in history there appeared openings where a lasting Christian reconquest of North Africa / Egypt was possible.  In fighting is the common entry point and reason for such efforts to fail.

 

Michael

 

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 01:56 pm, Dan Daast wrote:

There used to be a long, rather detailed, alt-history scenario back on Usenet position a departure point of the Guiscards turning their attentions toward Egypt instead of Byzantium, after they took Southern Italy and Sicily.

Looking at these maps, I wonder how things would have turned out if the OTL thrust into the Balkans by the Normans still occurred but Robert doesn't die of typhus, cutting the whole thing short. Between him and Bohemond they had a good chance of getting to Constantinople and probably bribing their way, by the end.

 

Took most of Bohemia for a relative who had a claim: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/891008249768598924/6E7BDBF5079FF0B35DC905707E2D60A7D2D03B67/
It's a republic now, within my empire, since he was the Lord Mayor of Galata. Ruling it from Constantinople. 

Bobby Hardenbrook
 


That probably accurately reflects the era though. 

Bobby


On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 2:06 PM Michael Rohde <Mtrohde@...> wrote:

One of the game mechanics that aggravates me is its hard to overrun a big empire in the game.  Each time I have gone to war with OE by the time they are willing to make peace I am deep into Anatolia but its maybe a 40-50% win rating and I can take perhaps 2 to 3 provinces from them.

 

As to your point several times in history there appeared openings where a lasting Christian reconquest of North Africa / Egypt was possible.  In fighting is the common entry point and reason for such efforts to fail.

 

Michael

 

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 01:56 pm, Dan Daast wrote:

There used to be a long, rather detailed, alt-history scenario back on Usenet position a departure point of the Guiscards turning their attentions toward Egypt instead of Byzantium, after they took Southern Italy and Sicily.

Looking at these maps, I wonder how things would have turned out if the OTL thrust into the Balkans by the Normans still occurred but Robert doesn't die of typhus, cutting the whole thing short. Between him and Bohemond they had a good chance of getting to Constantinople and probably bribing their way, by the end.

 

Yeah, once you start getting nation states the changes in borders tend to become smaller while the armies get larger.

In the CK2 setting what you're usually seeing is the ownership of a title shifting, along with fealty lines. You can conquer all of England in 1066 in a single battle because you don't have to take every single castle -- the crown shifts to you and you gain legal ownership of the kingdom. 


On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:51 am, Bobby Hardenbrook wrote:
That probably accurately reflects the era though. 

scott palter
 

That format provides a way for the local baron to switch sides and still be baron.


Scott




From: stirling@groups.io <stirling@groups.io> on behalf of Andrew Gray <aggray@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:54 PM
To: stirling@groups.io
Subject: Re: [stirling] Greater Bavaria
 
Yeah, once you start getting nation states the changes in borders tend to become smaller while the armies get larger.

In the CK2 setting what you're usually seeing is the ownership of a title shifting, along with fealty lines. You can conquer all of England in 1066 in a single battle because you don't have to take every single castle -- the crown shifts to you and you gain legal ownership of the kingdom. 

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:51 am, Bobby Hardenbrook wrote:
That probably accurately reflects the era though. 

 

From Ottoman's overrun Egypt, East Med Coast up into central Anatolia  with armies advancing on Istanbul, overrun all of Arabia down to Yemen.  Can only get a sliver of Egypt to make peace.   

 

The game mechanic goes off size of the target.  OE is huge with 100+ provinces so, even though I have overrun 50 provinces thats only a 50% win rating so I can get maybe 3 provinces in the peace deal.  Ignoring the weighting the game has for things like population of province, economic value, etc.  

 

If I overrun a smaller target with say 10 province and occupy them all with 100% win rating I can get perhaps 6 provinces from them.

 

Michael


On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 12:54 pm, Andrew Gray wrote:

Yeah, once you start getting nation states the changes in borders tend to become smaller while the armies get larger.

In the CK2 setting what you're usually seeing is the ownership of a title shifting, along with fealty lines. You can conquer all of England in 1066 in a single battle because you don't have to take every single castle -- the crown shifts to you and you gain legal ownership of the kingdom. 

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:51 am, Bobby Hardenbrook wrote:
That probably accurately reflects the era though. 

 

Yeah, in CK2 every vassal keeps their title when a higher level title switches, unless they are a different religion and it is a holy war. I can't even start a war against someone my own religion unless I have a legitimate reason -- a de jure claim on their territory, a claim on their title, or someone in my court who has a claim on their title (in which case I'm going to war on behalf of that person). 


On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 12:55 pm, scott palter wrote:
That format provides a way for the local baron to switch sides and still be baron.

joatsimeon
 

Note that it took a long time for the Normans to actually secure England; there were uprisings for 20 years, and they had to build literally thousands of castles, change the leadership of every bishopric and abbey, and virtually extirpate the entire English aristocracy, at least in the male lines.  English exiles were numerous as far east as Byzantium.

England had a premature sense of national identity in the 11th century.  If you read the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle for the year 1066, for example, the parties are never referred to as "the Normans" or "Harold's men".

They're called "The English" and "The French".


From: Andrew Gray <aggray@...>
To: stirling <stirling@groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Sep 28, 2017 1:54 pm
Subject: Re: [stirling] Greater Bavaria

Yeah, once you start getting nation states the changes in borders tend to become smaller while the armies get larger.

In the CK2 setting what you're usually seeing is the ownership of a title shifting, along with fealty lines. You can conquer all of England in 1066 in a single battle because you don't have to take every single castle -- the crown shifts to you and you gain legal ownership of the kingdom. 

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:51 am, Bobby Hardenbrook wrote:
That probably accurately reflects the era though. 

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