Topics

Churchill and historical records.

Kier Salmon
 

I’m reading a book about Wallis, Duchess of Windsor and ran across a little item:

“after the defeat of Germany, when the German Foreign Office records were seized by the allies, Winston Churchill saw them as too embarrassing for the current British monarchy and British public to be worth preserving.”

One of the supposed documents was a telegram from Edward to Hitler’s “go-between” “offering his services if ever needed.”

Another was something about becoming a co-ruler (??) with Hitler?

I’m not in a spot where I can dig into looking into this. Does anybody already know if the Churchill destroyed records assertion is true, and if anything more is know about them?
i.e, not needing to ask people to go digging.


Kier Salmon
Editor 4 Hire

James Proffer
 

On Thu, 2017-10-05 at 11:35 -0700, Kier Salmon wrote:
I’m reading a book about Wallis, Duchess of Windsor and ran across a little item:

“after the defeat of Germany, when the German Foreign Office records were seized by the allies, Winston Churchill saw them as too embarrassing for the current British monarchy and British public to be worth preserving.”

One of the supposed documents was a telegram from Edward to Hitler’s “go-between”  “offering his services if ever needed.” 

Another was something about becoming a co-ruler (??) with Hitler?

I’m not in a spot where I can dig into looking into this.  Does anybody already know if the Churchill destroyed records assertion is true, and if anything more is know about them?
i.e, not needing to ask people to go digging.



Destroyed records?  Don't know.  I have seen many reports the UK diplomatic records from the WW II era are still sealed under the Official Secrets Act.  Other rumors suggest Edward had many problematic and embarrassing communications with Nazi Germany.  Also I've seen it suggested that Wallas Simpson was a cover story and the real trigger for abdication was Edward's Nazi inclinations.

scott palter
 

There are massive rumors to this effect and equally massive rumors that the UK dangled the Duke in front of the Germans as part of multiple deception operations intended to buy time.


Scott




From: stirling@groups.io <stirling@groups.io> on behalf of James Proffer <james@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 8:02 PM
To: stirling@groups.io
Subject: Re: [stirling] Churchill and historical records.
 
On Thu, 2017-10-05 at 11:35 -0700, Kier Salmon wrote:
I’m reading a book about Wallis, Duchess of Windsor and ran across a little item:

“after the defeat of Germany, when the German Foreign Office records were seized by the allies, Winston Churchill saw them as too embarrassing for the current British monarchy and British public to be worth preserving.”

One of the supposed documents was a telegram from Edward to Hitler’s “go-between”  “offering his services if ever needed.” 

Another was something about becoming a co-ruler (??) with Hitler?

I’m not in a spot where I can dig into looking into this.  Does anybody already know if the Churchill destroyed records assertion is true, and if anything more is know about them?
i.e, not needing to ask people to go digging.



Destroyed records?  Don't know.  I have seen many reports the UK diplomatic records from the WW II era are still sealed under the Official Secrets Act.  Other rumors suggest Edward had many problematic and embarrassing communications with Nazi Germany.  Also I've seen it suggested that Wallas Simpson was a cover story and the real trigger for abdication was Edward's Nazi inclinations.

Eric Oppen
 

I still plan to write that story that's been knocking around in the back of my head for some time.  The one where Eddie Windsor agrees to join the Germans, gets taken to Berlin, gets in to meet Hitler...and pulls a pistol he's got hidden and drills the Fuhrer right through that silly forelock in his forehead.  Of course, he's shot down shortly afterward, but the chaos this engenders gives the Allies a wonderful opening to smash the Third Reich before Stalin can get stuck in.  And Eddie Windsor gets a hero's funeral and burial at Westminster Abbey under a medieval-style effigy.  (Never knew why they stopped using those for royalty---I think they are neat!)

On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 11:15 PM, scott palter <senilecow2345@...> wrote:

There are massive rumors to this effect and equally massive rumors that the UK dangled the Duke in front of the Germans as part of multiple deception operations intended to buy time.


Scott




From: stirling@groups.io <stirling@groups.io> on behalf of James Proffer <james@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 8:02 PM
To: stirling@groups.io
Subject: Re: [stirling] Churchill and historical records.
 
On Thu, 2017-10-05 at 11:35 -0700, Kier Salmon wrote:
I’m reading a book about Wallis, Duchess of Windsor and ran across a little item:

“after the defeat of Germany, when the German Foreign Office records were seized by the allies, Winston Churchill saw them as too embarrassing for the current British monarchy and British public to be worth preserving.”

One of the supposed documents was a telegram from Edward to Hitler’s “go-between”  “offering his services if ever needed.” 

Another was something about becoming a co-ruler (??) with Hitler?

I’m not in a spot where I can dig into looking into this.  Does anybody already know if the Churchill destroyed records assertion is true, and if anything more is know about them?
i.e, not needing to ask people to go digging.



Destroyed records?  Don't know.  I have seen many reports the UK diplomatic records from the WW II era are still sealed under the Official Secrets Act.  Other rumors suggest Edward had many problematic and embarrassing communications with Nazi Germany.  Also I've seen it suggested that Wallas Simpson was a cover story and the real trigger for abdication was Edward's Nazi inclinations.

Alasdair Urquhart
 

I suspect this story is nonsense, possibly based on an episode in 1953 when Churchill did try to prevent publication of of some German records relating to a plan to kidnap the Duke of Windsor following the fall of France. See this story from the Guardian from a couple of months ago https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/20/winston-churchill-nazi-telegrams-uk-royals-edward-cabinet-papers But he wasn't in a position to actually get records destroyed as the captured records were only moved to the UK in 1948 (when he was out of office) and they were then microfilmed and copies went to the US archives in Washington as well as in the then Public Records Office in the UK. See this piece https://prologue.blogs.archives.gov/2016/09/14/the-german-foreign-ministry-archive/ on the US National Archive blog.

Alasdair


On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 11:35 am, Kier Salmon wrote:
I’m reading a book about Wallis, Duchess of Windsor and ran across a little item:

“after the defeat of Germany, when the German Foreign Office records were seized by the allies, Winston Churchill saw them as too embarrassing for the current British monarchy and British public to be worth preserving.”

One of the supposed documents was a telegram from Edward to Hitler’s “go-between” “offering his services if ever needed.”

Another was something about becoming a co-ruler (??) with Hitler?

I’m not in a spot where I can dig into looking into this. Does anybody already know if the Churchill destroyed records assertion is true, and if anything more is know about them?
i.e, not needing to ask people to go digging.


Kier Salmon
Editor 4 Hire

Eric Oppen
 

A lot of people in 1939 suddenly developed total amnesia about the fact that prior to Germany's invasion of Poland, Hitler had often received British delegations of various sorts, who all treated him with perfect civility.  And I daresay that the Duke of Windsor would have had not-hostile feelings about Josef Stalin if he'd gone to Moscow with Wallis in tow and the Soviets had rolled out the red carpet for them and treated Wallis politely.

Heck, I've seen pictures of US Boy Scouts on some sort of European tour giving the Scout salute in perfect form as the Nazis' flag went past in some parade or other in Germany.  

On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 11:56 AM, Alasdair Urquhart via Groups.Io <alasdairu@...> wrote:
I suspect this story is nonsense, possibly based on an episode in 1953 when Churchill did try to prevent publication of of some German records relating to a plan to kidnap the Duke of Windsor following the fall of France. See this story from the Guardian from a couple of months ago https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/20/winston-churchill-nazi-telegrams-uk-royals-edward-cabinet-papers But he wasn't in a position to actually get records destroyed as the captured records were only moved to the UK in 1948 (when he was out of office) and they were then microfilmed and copies went to the US archives in Washington as well as in the then Public Records Office in the UK. See this piece https://prologue.blogs.archives.gov/2016/09/14/the-german-foreign-ministry-archive/ on the US National Archive blog.

Alasdair

On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 11:35 am, Kier Salmon wrote:
I’m reading a book about Wallis, Duchess of Windsor and ran across a little item:

“after the defeat of Germany, when the German Foreign Office records were seized by the allies, Winston Churchill saw them as too embarrassing for the current British monarchy and British public to be worth preserving.”

One of the supposed documents was a telegram from Edward to Hitler’s “go-between” “offering his services if ever needed.”

Another was something about becoming a co-ruler (??) with Hitler?

I’m not in a spot where I can dig into looking into this. Does anybody already know if the Churchill destroyed records assertion is true, and if anything more is know about them?
i.e, not needing to ask people to go digging.


Kier Salmon
Editor 4 Hire

Kier Salmon
 

I read somewhere that Hitler snubbed Wallis and embraced Edward. She never forgave him.

Kier Salmon
Editor 4 Hire

On Oct 6, 2017, at 11:44 AM, Eric Oppen <ravenclaweric@...> wrote:

A lot of people in 1939 suddenly developed total amnesia about the fact that prior to Germany's invasion of Poland, Hitler had often received British delegations of various sorts, who all treated him with perfect civility. And I daresay that the Duke of Windsor would have had not-hostile feelings about Josef Stalin if he'd gone to Moscow with Wallis in tow and the Soviets had rolled out the red carpet for them and treated Wallis politely.

Heck, I've seen pictures of US Boy Scouts on some sort of European tour giving the Scout salute in perfect form as the Nazis' flag went past in some parade or other in Germany.

On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 11:56 AM, Alasdair Urquhart via Groups.Io <alasdairu@...> wrote:
I suspect this story is nonsense, possibly based on an episode in 1953 when Churchill did try to prevent publication of of some German records relating to a plan to kidnap the Duke of Windsor following the fall of France. See this story from the Guardian from a couple of months ago https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/20/winston-churchill-nazi-telegrams-uk-royals-edward-cabinet-papers But he wasn't in a position to actually get records destroyed as the captured records were only moved to the UK in 1948 (when he was out of office) and they were then microfilmed and copies went to the US archives in Washington as well as in the then Public Records Office in the UK. See this piece https://prologue.blogs.archives.gov/2016/09/14/the-german-foreign-ministry-archive/ on the US National Archive blog.

Alasdair

On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 11:35 am, Kier Salmon wrote:
I’m reading a book about Wallis, Duchess of Windsor and ran across a little item:

“after the defeat of Germany, when the German Foreign Office records were seized by the allies, Winston Churchill saw them as too embarrassing for the current British monarchy and British public to be worth preserving.”

One of the supposed documents was a telegram from Edward to Hitler’s “go-between” “offering his services if ever needed.”

Another was something about becoming a co-ruler (??) with Hitler?

I’m not in a spot where I can dig into looking into this. Does anybody already know if the Churchill destroyed records assertion is true, and if anything more is know about them?
i.e, not needing to ask people to go digging.


Kier Salmon
Editor 4 Hire