Topics

Byzantine culture

Walt
 

I've been thinking about Huntington's Clash of Civilizations, and his premise that at the end of the age of ideological conflict, humanity would revert to long established patterns of cultural conflict.

Huntington describes the culture of the former Soviet Union as being Orthodox, and I'm concerned that the average reader will find the term to be more confusing than illuminating. I'm also thinking that the Soviet penchant for undermining their opponents through disinformation and false-flag operations didn't originate with the Bolsheviks; rather that they took to such tactics so readily because of a cultural history of approaching conflict obliquely. My guess is that they've been doing such things so long that it's woven into their cultural DNA.

I note that a common term used to describe such tactics is byzantine, and I'm thinking that rather than describing the Soviet's underlying culture as being Orthodox, the term Byzantine might be more effective for the western reader.

I'm curious how this sits with the list?

~~ Walt

joatsimeon
 

True enough.  Russia was Christianized from Byzantium, and had close relations with the Byzantine Empire for a long time.  The Poles, to take an alternate example, became Latin Christians in communion with Rome, as did the Czechs, Slovaks and Croats.

On Oct 3, 2017, at 4:32 PM, Walt <patrick@...> wrote:

I've been thinking about Huntington's Clash of Civilizations, and his premise that at the end of the age of ideological conflict, humanity would revert to long established patterns of cultural conflict.

Huntington describes the culture of the former Soviet Union as being Orthodox, and I'm concerned that the average reader will find the term to be more confusing than illuminating. I'm also thinking that the Soviet penchant for undermining their opponents through disinformation and false-flag operations didn't originate with the Bolsheviks; rather that they took to such tactics so readily because of a cultural history of approaching conflict obliquely. My guess is that they've been doing such things so long that it's woven into their cultural DNA.

I note that a common term used to describe such tactics is byzantine, and I'm thinking that rather than describing the Soviet's underlying culture as being Orthodox, the term Byzantine might be more effective for the western reader.

I'm curious how this sits with the list?

~~ Walt

Dan Daast
 

Should be more to the 'Byzantine Culture' as a term, than religion, surely? Both the Umayyads and the Ottomans were very strongly affected by the Byzantine model, and ( increasingly think) were as much of its continuation as the "Third Rome."

(One of the reasons I've cooled off considerably on the ATLs positing Byzantine survival. Nearest OTL equivalents seemed to have less than optimal long-term outcomes.)


On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 05:48 pm, joatsimeon wrote:
True enough.  Russia was Christianized from Byzantium, and had close relations with the Byzantine Empire for a long time.  The Poles, to take an alternate example, became Latin Christians in communion with Rome, as did the Czechs, Slovaks and Croats.
On Oct 3, 2017, at 4:32 PM, Walt <patrick@...> wrote:
I've been thinking about Huntington's Clash of Civilizations, and his premise that at the end of the age of ideological conflict, humanity would revert to long established patterns of cultural conflict.

Huntington describes the culture of the former Soviet Union as being Orthodox, and I'm concerned that the average reader will find the term to be more confusing than illuminating. I'm also thinking that the Soviet penchant for undermining their opponents through disinformation and false-flag operations didn't originate with the Bolsheviks; rather that they took to such tactics so readily because of a cultural history of approaching conflict obliquely. My guess is that they've been doing such things so long that it's woven into their cultural DNA.

I note that a common term used to describe such tactics is byzantine, and I'm thinking that rather than describing the Soviet's underlying culture as being Orthodox, the term Byzantine might be more effective for the western reader.

I'm curious how this sits with the list?

~~ Walt

 


I note that a common term used to describe such tactics is byzantine, and I'm thinking that rather than describing the Soviet's underlying culture as being Orthodox, the term Byzantine might be more effective for the western reader.

I'm curious how this sits with the list?
That actually makes a lot of sense to me. It's a good observation, Walt.
Peter S


From: Walt <patrick@...>
To: stirling <stirling@groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Oct 3, 2017 6:46 pm
Subject: [stirling] Byzantine culture

I've been thinking about Huntington's Clash of Civilizations, and his premise that at the end of the age of ideological conflict, humanity would revert to long established patterns of cultural conflict.

Huntington describes the culture of the former Soviet Union as being Orthodox, and I'm concerned that the average reader will find the term to be more confusing than illuminating. I'm also thinking that the Soviet penchant for undermining their opponents through disinformation and false-flag operations didn't originate with the Bolsheviks; rather that they took to such tactics so readily because of a cultural history of approaching conflict obliquely. My guess is that they've been doing such things so long that it's woven into their cultural DNA.

I note that a common term used to describe such tactics is byzantine, and I'm thinking that rather than describing the Soviet's underlying culture as being Orthodox, the term Byzantine might be more effective for the western reader.

I'm curious how this sits with the list?

~~ Walt