Re: refusal of ypdating to a new version of Skype

Mike DeZinno
 

Hello Doug,
thank you for the key application enlightenment.
Some wise person once said that all disabilities aren't equal.
I guess adding to that the myriad of devices and personalized configurations the blind can use today makes finding unique keystrokes when scripting that are also possible to execute  a real challenge.
Again another reason to thank you and appreciate your work on our behalf.

Respectfully,
Mike, in SC
 

At 10:45 AM 10/10/2018, you wrote:
Alt+Win+numbers can be obnoxious to type frequently, especially when a keyboard has only one Alt or Windows key. Alt+numbers or Ctrl+numbers are much less challenging even in such a case because the thumb can hold down one key
but not reliably two. This is my finding anyway.

To the original concern in this subthread though: I try not to override application keystrokes that exist before I start coding stuff. Skype just bit me by suddenly attaching functionality to keys I had been using for a long
time already, and even across multiple chat programs.

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 09:26:01AM -0400, Mike DeZinno wrote:
   Hey Doug,
   Regarding your old keystrokes verses apps stepping on you by hijacking
   them with their newer upgrades:
   Could a simple fix just be for you to add the windows key to the key
   combos?
   I only offer that because in recent years I see a number of other
   adaptive software doing that;
   So (alt plus a number) would become (alt win number)
   I don't pretend to know a lot about scripting so I don't know if that
   is or isn't an easy thing to do, just kinda throwing it out there for
   consideration.
   Thanks for all you have already done and for what you will be doing in
   the future,
   Mike, in SC

   At 08:20 PM 10/9/2018, you wrote:

     lol yes, I can see that. that was the very thing I was talking
     about. but, to be fair, you not only had to accomodate long time
     users, but new users that were just coming to the platform also, so
     I really can't fault you on  that.
     On 10/10/2018 07:55, Doug Lee wrote:

     In the spirit of constructive feedback seeking, I wonder which
     keystrokes? I do know that my Skype 7 scripts made Alt+numbers read
     chats but that, years after I started doing that, Skype made Alt+1
     through Alt+3 jump to
     different screens in Skype. I can't think of any others but wonder
     if I'm forgetting any.
     As far as the Alt+numbers go, I had to make a difficult decision:
     Change my keystrokes after years because Skype suddenly collided
     with them and risk ticking off long-term users, or continue using
     the keys as always and provide
     alternate ways to use the new Skype commands, at the risk of ticking
     off newcomers. I chose the former and pleaded with Skype, before it
     belonged to Microsoft, to switch to Ctrl+numbers for the
     screen-switching commands. I
     lost.
     On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 05:43:29AM +1030, Shaun Oliver wrote:
         my only complaint with the former is I don't get enough of it.
     however,
         putting the subject back on topic, whenever I've used Doug's
     scripts in
         the past, I have never had a complaint against them, save the
     fact that
         towards the end of my using them, keystrokes that were already
         incorperated in to Skype had been remapped and rerouted through
     JAWS to
         do something other than what Skype had intended for them to do.
         On 10/10/2018 03:58, Mike DeZinno wrote:
         Hey Doug,
         I once met a man who complained about free sex;
         So why am I not surprised you get complaints about free Skype
     scrips!
         LOL
         Take care and keep the faith,
         Mike, from SC
         At 08:13 AM 10/9/2018, you wrote:
           The part that gets me almost giggling resignedly here is that
     we're
           arguing over a program that costs us nothing. People sometimes
     get
           mad at me for saying things like, "The next version of the
     Skype
           scripts will no longer
           support any JAWS versions older than 15.0." I do that when it
     lets
           me do better things in scripting than the older JAWS versions
           allowed, or when older JAWS versions simply can't handle the
     newest
           version of the application.
           But people generally have the sense to realize that I'm (1)
     not
           doing it to hurt people, (2) am actually doing it for a
     reason, and
           (3) cannot be called mean because I'm giving away for free
     what I'm
           doing anyway.
           The only time I can remember complaining about a change to a
     free
           program was when Roger suddenly vanished with very little
     warning.
           My complaint at that time was that they gave us little warning
     and
           also gave us nowhere to go.
           Microsoft has given us way plenty of warning and has also
     given us
           not one, but two places to go (Skype 8 or Skype UWP). And
     despite a
           small number of claims in this thread, we have absolutely
     solid and
           prolific proof that at
           least Skype 8 works well enough with both JAWS and NVDA to be
           usable. It has its quirks, but so did Skype 7. So Microsoft
     gave us
           the easiest feedback system for reporting them that I have
     ever
           seen, bar none: Open, type into a
           box, press Enter, done!
           Finally, if anyone wanted to complain loudly, I think it
     should have
           been me. My Command Line Interface for Skype, Clisk
           ([1][1]http://www.dlee.org/skype/clisk), is completely
     unsupported
           after the end of this month. That's a loss of
           years of my time, at least arguably.
           So why don't I yell about that one? Again, Microsoft gave
     plenty of
           warning, good explanations for why they are doing what they're
           doing, and even delayed Skype 7's demise partly because of one
           feature Clisk used, that being
           the ability to redirect and record sound from Skype. I will
           seriously miss Clisk, but that is no reason to cry foul.
           In conclusion, I'd say this Skype update should best be
     treated like
           a hurricane; and that hurricane actually has a name: Cloud.
     Cloud
           infrastructure is why this update is happening. Skype, as I
     said
           before, is changing how it
           communicates. It is starting to use a cloud structure. Skype 7
     was
           not ready for that and never will be. So Microsoft gave an
           evacuation order, with several months' warning - which is
     unusual
           for a weather bulletin lol. But
           really, in this storm, if we cling to our islands, we truly
     will end
           up lost at sea.
           On Tue, Oct 09, 2018 at 07:13:12AM -0400, Joseph Machise
     wrote:
           well, that's the trouble with Microsoft, who are they to tell
     us
           what to do.
           ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shaun Oliver"
           [2]<blindman75@...>
           To: [3]<skypeenglish@groups.io>
           Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2018 7:11 AM
           Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] refusal of ypdating to a new
     version of
           Skype
           > as has been stated in the official notice from ms, they will
     no
           longer be
           > supporting Skype 7 or classic as it's now known. this means
     that
           you will
           > either be forced to update, or your classic skype will begin
     to
           stop
           > working until it no longer works entirely.
           >
           >
           >
           > On 9/10/2018 12:49, Josephine Hirsch wrote:
           > > Hi all,
           > >
           > >
           > > What if you refused to update to a new version of Skype? I
     like
           the
           > > Skype Classic because it is easier for me to navigate on
     Skype
           Classic
           > > than Skype 8.30, and I could never get anyone to hear me
     on
           Skype 8.30
           > > any longer, and I tried everything and no go with Skype
     8.30
           > >
           > > Thanks,
           > >
           > > Josephine
           > >
           > >
           > >
           >
           >
           >
           >
           --
           Doug Lee                 [4]dgl@...
           [5][2]http://www.dlee.org
           Level Access             [6]doug.lee@...
           [7]http://www.LevelAccess.com
           "The best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick
     good men
           to do
           what he wants done, and self-restraint enough to keep from
     meddling
           with
           them while they do it."--Theodore Roosevelt

     References
         1. [3]http://www.dlee.org/skype/clisk
         2. [4]mailto:blindman75@...
         3. [5]mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
         4. [6]mailto:dgl@...
         5. [7]http://www.dlee.org/
         6. [8]mailto:doug.lee@...
         7. [9]http://www.levelaccess.com/
         8. [10]https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/message/3387
         9.
     [11]mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeengl
     ish%5D%20refusal%20of%20ypdating%20to%20a%20new%20version%20of%20Sky
     pe
        10.
     [12]mailto:blindman75@...?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5B
     skypeenglish%5D%20refusal%20of%20ypdating%20to%20a%20new%20version%2
     0of%20Skype
        11. [13]https://groups.io/mt/27107171/409874
        12. [14]https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/post
        13. [15]http://www.dlee.org/skype/
        14. [16]https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/editsub/409874
        15. [17]mailto:skypeenglish+owner@groups.io
        16. [18]https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/leave/defanged

  

References

   1. http://www.dlee.org/skype/clisk
   2. http://www.dlee.org/
   3. http://www.dlee.org/skype/clisk
   4. mailto:blindman75@...
   5. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
   6. mailto:dgl@...
   7. http://www.dlee.org/
   8. mailto:doug.lee@...
   9. http://www.levelaccess.com/
  10. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/message/3387
  11. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io%3Fsubject=Re:%20Re:%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20refusal%20of%20ypdating%20to%20a%20new%20version%20of%20Skype
  12. mailto:blindman75@...%3Fsubject=Private:%20Re:%20Re:%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20refusal%20of%20ypdating%20to%20a%20new%20version%20of%20Skype
  13. https://groups.io/mt/27107171/409874
  14. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/post
  15. http://www.dlee.org/skype/
  16. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/editsub/409874
  17. mailto:skypeenglish+owner@groups.io
  18. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/leave/defanged
  19. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/message/3408
  20. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20refusal%20of%20ypdating%20to%20a%20new%20version%20of%20Skype
  21. mailto:mike@...?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20refusal%20of%20ypdating%20to%20a%20new%20version%20of%20Skype
  22. https://groups.io/mt/27107171/409874
  23. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/post
  24. http://www.dlee.org/skype/
  25. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/editsub/409874
  26. mailto:skypeenglish+owner@groups.io
  27. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/leave/defanged

--
Doug Lee                 dgl@...                http://www.dlee.org
Level Access             doug.lee@...    http://www.LevelAccess.com
"The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them
to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum

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