Converting to SAL-30 Mark II Questions


Chuck Dietz
 

My old SAL-30 got trashed in a storm and I want to convert it to a Mark II due to the ease in erection. I will probably put insulators in the horizontal part and feed through windings on a small #43 toroid core. I have a yard for it with posts that will only allow about 27 feet from the center to each post. I have a 32 foot 3" aluminum tube from an old beam that I can use for the vertical part. My questions are:
1. Do I use the full 32 foot vertical part and still use the 25 foot horizontal part like the 30 foot design? This will create a different shape for each triangle of the array.
2. If so, does this change the length of the delay line? I think I saw the math for calculating the length of the delay line somewhere, but I don't remember where. 
3. How many turns on the toroid? 15?
4. Do I need a resistor across the feed? 300 ohms carbon?
5. I have the old switching unit in the center. Will it work?

Thanks for any input.

Chuck W5PR


Jay
 

Chuck,
Were working on a new "incexpensive" mast kit.  I hope to debug it this spring.   

Don't use a 300 Ohm resistor, use the transformer pickups you already have.   And the dimensions of the 4 loops is not critical as long as they are all the same.  The critical part is where the coupler is in relation to the center of the mast.
Make them the same as your SAL1 and you can use the same delay line.  If you want to go to the SAL MK II dimensions then you will need to cut a new delay line.   I can help you with that dimension when the time comes.

As to the Torroid, I don't know what your asking?  

Your existing electronics will work perfectly.
Jay

Jay Terleski
Array Solutions
214 954 7140



On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 12:06 PM Chuck Dietz via groups.io <w5pr=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
My old SAL-30 got trashed in a storm and I want to convert it to a Mark II due to the ease in erection. I will probably put insulators in the horizontal part and feed through windings on a small #43 toroid core. I have a yard for it with posts that will only allow about 27 feet from the center to each post. I have a 32 foot 3" aluminum tube from an old beam that I can use for the vertical part. My questions are:
1. Do I use the full 32 foot vertical part and still use the 25 foot horizontal part like the 30 foot design? This will create a different shape for each triangle of the array.
2. If so, does this change the length of the delay line? I think I saw the math for calculating the length of the delay line somewhere, but I don't remember where. 
3. How many turns on the toroid? 15?
4. Do I need a resistor across the feed? 300 ohms carbon?
5. I have the old switching unit in the center. Will it work?

Thanks for any input.

Chuck W5PR


Chuck Dietz
 

Ok, I can go with the existing toroid feed, but I will have to replace the wires if I can.  I will get the new dimensions and email you for the delay line length.

Thanks Jay!

Chuck W5PR


Chuck Dietz
 

Hi Jay,

I am now, finally, at the end of the MKII construction. Each wire, diagonal + horizontal, is exactly 65 feet. 25 feet is horizontal, 40 feet diagonal (from computations). My total aluminum tubing is 32 feet, with the wires attached 1 1/2 inches below the top and 5 1/4 inches above the bottom. It appears to be pretty similar to the book SAL-30 MKII where the delay line is 21.75 feet. I have a 21 foot 11 inch delay line now. Do you think that would work? I have all the tools to make any length and want this to be right. As I understand it, different lengths just require different coupler positions so I might be ok with this one.

Thanks!

Chuck W5PR


Jay
 

You should be OK with the delay line.   Your coupler (pickup) position can be optimized when you get the thing up and running.

Jay Terleski
Array Solutions
214 954 7140



On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 10:59 AM Chuck Dietz via groups.io <w5pr=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Jay,

I am now, finally, at the end of the MKII construction. Each wire, diagonal + horizontal, is exactly 65 feet. 25 feet is horizontal, 40 feet diagonal (from computations). My total aluminum tubing is 32 feet, with the wires attached 1 1/2 inches below the top and 5 1/4 inches above the bottom. It appears to be pretty similar to the book SAL-30 MKII where the delay line is 21.75 feet. I have a 21 foot 11 inch delay line now. Do you think that would work? I have all the tools to make any length and want this to be right. As I understand it, different lengths just require different coupler positions so I might be ok with this one.

Thanks!

Chuck W5PR


Chuck Dietz
 

I finished the SAL-30 MKII and had to send the Controller and relay box in for repair. Got them back in about 10 days. I re-installed them using my 12v shack power and, nothing. I switched to the 15v wall wort supply I ordered online and, bingo it started working. With the couplers set at 150" I am getting 25 to 26 db front to back on a fairly strong traveller information station on a Flex 6700. That is the best I was ever able to adjust the old, original SAL-30. There has been so much noise in the last few days that I have not been able to try different coupler positions because, when I flip it to reverse the direction, the station is deep in the noise and I am probably just measuring the noise level instead of the station level. I am thrilled with it the way it is, but I want to try moving the couplers one foot in either direction just to record the results. The signal levels of the broadcast stations I use to test the old SAL-30 are identical within one db to the levels on the MKII, but I believe the front to back is at least as good or maybe better on the MKII. This could be because I went to extremes to get everything square and level this time. 

Chuck W5PR

On Friday, April 9, 2021, 11:38:44 AM CDT, Jay <jayt@...> wrote:


You should be OK with the delay line.   Your coupler (pickup) position can be optimized when you get the thing up and running.

Jay Terleski
Array Solutions
214 954 7140



On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 10:59 AM Chuck Dietz via groups.io <w5pr=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Jay,

I am now, finally, at the end of the MKII construction. Each wire, diagonal + horizontal, is exactly 65 feet. 25 feet is horizontal, 40 feet diagonal (from computations). My total aluminum tubing is 32 feet, with the wires attached 1 1/2 inches below the top and 5 1/4 inches above the bottom. It appears to be pretty similar to the book SAL-30 MKII where the delay line is 21.75 feet. I have a 21 foot 11 inch delay line now. Do you think that would work? I have all the tools to make any length and want this to be right. As I understand it, different lengths just require different coupler positions so I might be ok with this one.

Thanks!

Chuck W5PR


Chuck Dietz
 

Now that I have had some good weather to do some adjustments on the converted SAL-30 MKII, I found an interesting phenomena. I set the couplers at 150" to start and had good front to back on the broadcast band. I found that the best F to B on a station north of me, 30 db, was at a closer spacing. However, on a station to the northwest, the best F to B was at 150" about 26 db. Since the N, S, E, & W directions sum the two adjacent elements and there is not much in those directions, I decided to leave it at 150" to maximize the NE, NW, SW, and SE directions. 
I was able to work a PY on 160m FT8 about 20 minutes before dark. I worked a couple more in South America just after dark. I could not hear these stations on my 1/4 wave sloper transmit antenna. But, then I worked a HR in Central America that I could only copy on the transmit antenna. I am assuming the close in stations are arriving at a higher angle and are better on the transmit antenna. The SAL seems better on the lower angle signals.

Using a Flex-6700
Delay line 21.75'
Each wire, diagonal + horizontal, is exactly 65 feet. 25 feet is horizontal, 40 feet diagonal (from computations). 
Total vertical aluminum tubing is 32 feet (Wires attached a few inches from top and bottom)

Chuck W5PR

On Saturday, May 1, 2021, 09:11:57 AM CDT, Chuck Dietz via groups.io <w5pr@...> wrote:


I finished the SAL-30 MKII and had to send the Controller and relay box in for repair. Got them back in about 10 days. I re-installed them using my 12v shack power and, nothing. I switched to the 15v wall wort supply I ordered online and, bingo it started working. With the couplers set at 150" I am getting 25 to 26 db front to back on a fairly strong traveller information station on a Flex 6700. That is the best I was ever able to adjust the old, original SAL-30. There has been so much noise in the last few days that I have not been able to try different coupler positions because, when I flip it to reverse the direction, the station is deep in the noise and I am probably just measuring the noise level instead of the station level. I am thrilled with it the way it is, but I want to try moving the couplers one foot in either direction just to record the results. The signal levels of the broadcast stations I use to test the old SAL-30 are identical within one db to the levels on the MKII, but I believe the front to back is at least as good or maybe better on the MKII. This could be because I went to extremes to get everything square and level this time. 

Chuck W5PR

On Friday, April 9, 2021, 11:38:44 AM CDT, Jay <jayt@...> wrote:


You should be OK with the delay line.   Your coupler (pickup) position can be optimized when you get the thing up and running.

Jay Terleski
Array Solutions
214 954 7140



On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 10:59 AM Chuck Dietz via groups.io <w5pr=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Jay,

I am now, finally, at the end of the MKII construction. Each wire, diagonal + horizontal, is exactly 65 feet. 25 feet is horizontal, 40 feet diagonal (from computations). My total aluminum tubing is 32 feet, with the wires attached 1 1/2 inches below the top and 5 1/4 inches above the bottom. It appears to be pretty similar to the book SAL-30 MKII where the delay line is 21.75 feet. I have a 21 foot 11 inch delay line now. Do you think that would work? I have all the tools to make any length and want this to be right. As I understand it, different lengths just require different coupler positions so I might be ok with this one.

Thanks!

Chuck W5PR