Solex Carburetor overhaul


Malcolm_UK
 


Hello,
 
Just testing the new site using a query on a Solex 32 PAITA carburetor repair. Some of the threads on mine have disintegrated and I am set to try retapping the M4 bolt holes and trying out helicoil inserts. Has anyone had any success with this approach? The four M4 bolts hold the small pump onto the side of the carburetor. I think this is where I have air/petrol leaks making the pump unable to squirt petrol through the injection tube.
 
Car runs okay at idle but falters on acceleration.
 
Thanks
 
Malcolm
Scotland


Hakan Johansson
 

I've redone those with helicoil. Works fine, with Loctite or similar on the threads you'll be on the safe side. If you want to be on an even safer side, like me, you putty the holes from the "suction channel" side with JB Weld.

Remember to pre-tighten the diaphragm according to the workshop manual!
--
Håkan Johansson
Stockholm, Sweden
https://www.mb219.com


douglas broome
 

Malcolm,

I would ask Henry Magno or Will Samples.

Doug


-----Original Message-----
From: Malcolm_UK <mrh@...>
To: ponton <ponton@groups.io>
Sent: Mon, 11 Nov 2019 12:39
Subject: Re: [ponton] Solex Carburetor overhaul

Hello,
 
Just testing the new site using a query on a Solex 32 PAITA carburetor repair. Some of the threads on mine have disintegrated and I am set to try retapping the M4 bolt holes and trying out helicoil inserts. Has anyone had any success with this approach? The four M4 bolts hold the small pump onto the side of the carburetor. I think this is where I have air/petrol leaks making the pump unable to squirt petrol through the injection tube.
 
Car runs okay at idle but falters on acceleration.
 
Thanks
 
Malcolm
Scotland
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1957 convertible 220S (history)
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buntingron
 

The carb bodies are only pot metal and not very durable once the screws get re tightened.A helicoil at m4 is pretty small.  . I find the best idea is to grease a screw ,then put some epoxy ,such  as JB weld or Devcon in the hole then screw the greased screw into the hole. The grease allows the screw to come out after the epoxy has set. you will always get a bot of excess,thus the need to get the screw out.you can them finish the face for the pump 


douglas broome
 

This innovative advice warrants placement on the ponton page in the carb section.  What a great suggestion!

Doug



-----Original Message-----
From: buntingron <BRISKIWI@...>
To: ponton <ponton@groups.io>
Sent: Wed, 13 Nov 2019 3:09
Subject: Re: [ponton] Solex Carburetor overhaul

The carb bodies are only pot metal and not very durable once the screws get re tightened.A helicoil at m4 is pretty small.  . I find the best idea is to grease a screw ,then put some epoxy ,such  as JB weld or Devcon in the hole then screw the greased screw into the hole. The grease allows the screw to come out after the epoxy has set. you will always get a bot of excess,thus the need to get the screw out.you can them finish the face for the pump 
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Brian Glusovich (Charter)
 

I totally agree. I have to tighten my carb bolts every several months, and i worry about stripping threads over time. Hopefully, this idea will help with that.
Thanks - Ron has been putting useful info out, especially on the M-100 site, for several years now.

Brian Glusovich (glus@...)

-------- Original message --------
From: "douglas broome via Groups.Io" <douglas.broome@...>
Date: 11/13/19 6:21 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: ponton@groups.io, ponton@..., jpmiller123@...
Subject: Re: [ponton] Solex Carburetor overhaul

This innovative advice warrants placement on the ponton page in the carb section.  What a great suggestion!

Doug



-----Original Message-----
From: buntingron <BRISKIWI@...>
To: ponton <ponton@groups.io>
Sent: Wed, 13 Nov 2019 3:09
Subject: Re: [ponton] Solex Carburetor overhaul

The carb bodies are only pot metal and not very durable once the screws get re tightened.A helicoil at m4 is pretty small.  . I find the best idea is to grease a screw ,then put some epoxy ,such  as JB weld or Devcon in the hole then screw the greased screw into the hole. The grease allows the screw to come out after the epoxy has set. you will always get a bot of excess,thus the need to get the screw out.you can them finish the face for the pump 
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Bob Bush
 

M100 site? Do tell.    Does it have anything to do with Pontons?
Can I find it by searching that name? Or can you give a link?

That is a great idea, Thanks Ron!
I experience similar issues.

Thanks!
--
Webasto Bob


Gary Kuster
 

I was also a member of the M100 site. It's for the later V8 powered sedans, specifically, the 300 SEL 6.2 powered Benzes  I had a 67 300 SEL M189 but they let me join anyway.


buntingron
 

M-100.co     I was a member from the earliest days on the web when the site was one of those message board type things. I am no longer a member because I objected to having to pay $140 AUD annually to post on the forums. I still own M-100's though,a 6.3  #1675 and a  W111 220SE coupe which I will eventually power with my 6.9 engine. At present I am rebuilding an early 6.3 for a customer #703 which came in for a gearbox rebuild but when I couldn't get the trans out because it was jammed in the tunnel,I ended up stripping the whole front off and straightening out a repair done in the distant past. The car was 50 mm shorter on one side. Little wonder i haven't got my 220a finished yet. 


Jeff Miller (admin)
 

On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 03:09 AM, buntingron wrote:
The carb bodies are only pot metal and not very durable once the screws get re tightened.A helicoil at m4 is pretty small.  . I find the best idea is to grease a screw ,then put some epoxy ,such  as JB weld or Devcon in the hole then screw the greased screw into the hole. The grease allows the screw to come out after the epoxy has set. you will always get a bot of excess,thus the need to get the screw out.you can them finish the face for the pump 
I am adapting this tip for use on the Workshop page of www.mbzponton.org. Please clarify the last sentence - i.e. what "pump" is being referred to here?
 
--
Jeff


Jeff Miller (admin)
 

On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 05:02 AM, Jeff Miller wrote:
On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 03:09 AM, buntingron wrote:
The carb bodies are only pot metal and not very durable once the screws get re tightened.A helicoil at m4 is pretty small.  . I find the best idea is to grease a screw ,then put some epoxy ,such  as JB weld or Devcon in the hole then screw the greased screw into the hole. The grease allows the screw to come out after the epoxy has set. you will always get a bot of excess,thus the need to get the screw out.you can them finish the face for the pump 
I am adapting this tip for use on the Workshop page of www.mbzponton.org. Please clarify the last sentence - i.e. what "pump" is being referred to here?
Disregard! I went back to the first question in this topic and saw what pump was being referenced. I can visualize it now. On my 1957 190, the carb had stripped threads for the long metal line that ran from the distributor vacuum advance. They were repaired at one point, and now that I think about it, I don't know if a helicoil was used, or an epoxy (as suggested here). Maybe Henry Magno remembers. The work was done in 2004.
 
--
Jeff


Jeff Miller (admin)
 

On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 05:18 AM, Jeff Miller wrote:
I don't know if a helicoil was used, or an epoxy (as suggested here). Maybe Henry Magno remembers. The work was done in 2004.
Just checked the invoice, and a helicoil was used. Pretty sure the vacuum advance line was larger than M4 so it was probably less awkward to use the helicoil.
 
--
Jeff


Len Sokoloff
 

Jeff - I can't remember all the particulars, but I had at least one screw on one of my carbs that stripped.  In talking with Will Samples, he said that he often sees that and does a helicoil?  He sent me the screws that I needed, but never did get around to fixing the issue before I sold my ponton.  You might want to touch base with Will to get a second possible solution to the problem.

Found the old message (2011) from Will:

> The acc pump threaded holes are so notorious for stripping that we now
> Helicoil all of them in each carb we do.
> To me it is a combination of the pot metal aging and the fine pitch thread
> they used.
>
> The problem is the thread is a 4 x .75 but Helicoils only come in 4 x .70,
> so you have to replace the screw, which I can
> send you as many as you need.
>
> Can you repair it in place?  I don't think so.  The time you think you will
> save by not removing the carb(s) will be spent trying
> to drill a hole upside down, then tapping it with the Helicoil tool, then
> threading the Helicoil and getting it just the right depth below
> the surface.  All of it blind.  I use magnifying glasses to make sure I get
> the Helicoil just the right depth below the surface.
>
> I would not try to do this with the carbs in place.
>
> While you are in there, consider Helicoiling all the holes in both carbs.
> The others will eventually pull out.
> w

Len

On 11/24/2019 5:18 AM, Jeff Miller wrote:
On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 05:02 AM, Jeff Miller wrote:
On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 03:09 AM, buntingron wrote:
The carb bodies are only pot metal and not very durable once the screws get re tightened.A helicoil at m4 is pretty small.  . I find the best idea is to grease a screw ,then put some epoxy ,such  as JB weld or Devcon in the hole then screw the greased screw into the hole. The grease allows the screw to come out after the epoxy has set. you will always get a bot of excess,thus the need to get the screw out.you can them finish the face for the pump 
I am adapting this tip for use on the Workshop page of www.mbzponton.org. Please clarify the last sentence - i.e. what "pump" is being referred to here?
Disregard! I went back to the first question in this topic and saw what pump was being referenced. I can visualize it now. On my 1957 190, the carb had stripped threads for the long metal line that ran from the distributor vacuum advance. They were repaired at one point, and now that I think about it, I don't know if a helicoil was used, or an epoxy (as suggested here). Maybe Henry Magno remembers. The work was done in 2004.
 
--
Jeff
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douglas broome
 

In the context of that discussion I believe Ron means the accelerator pump.

lot of excess, not bot of excess.

Doug



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Miller <jpmiller123@...>
To: ponton <ponton@groups.io>
Sent: Sun, 24 Nov 2019 5:02
Subject: Re: [ponton] Solex Carburetor overhaul

On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 03:09 AM, buntingron wrote:
The carb bodies are only pot metal and not very durable once the screws get re tightened.A helicoil at m4 is pretty small.  . I find the best idea is to grease a screw ,then put some epoxy ,such  as JB weld or Devcon in the hole then screw the greased screw into the hole. The grease allows the screw to come out after the epoxy has set. you will always get a bot of excess,thus the need to get the screw out.you can them finish the face for the pump 
I am adapting this tip for use on the Workshop page of www.mbzponton.org. Please clarify the last sentence - i.e. what "pump" is being referred to here?
 
--
Jeff
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1957 convertible 220S (history)
1957 sedan 219 (history)


douglas broome
 

OK.  Also disregard my query of a few minutes back.

Doug



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Miller <jpmiller123@...>
To: ponton <ponton@groups.io>
Sent: Sun, 24 Nov 2019 5:18
Subject: Re: [ponton] Solex Carburetor overhaul

On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 05:02 AM, Jeff Miller wrote:
On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 03:09 AM, buntingron wrote:
The carb bodies are only pot metal and not very durable once the screws get re tightened.A helicoil at m4 is pretty small.  . I find the best idea is to grease a screw ,then put some epoxy ,such  as JB weld or Devcon in the hole then screw the greased screw into the hole. The grease allows the screw to come out after the epoxy has set. you will always get a bot of excess,thus the need to get the screw out.you can them finish the face for the pump 
I am adapting this tip for use on the Workshop page of www.mbzponton.org. Please clarify the last sentence - i.e. what "pump" is being referred to here?
Disregard! I went back to the first question in this topic and saw what pump was being referenced. I can visualize it now. On my 1957 190, the carb had stripped threads for the long metal line that ran from the distributor vacuum advance. They were repaired at one point, and now that I think about it, I don't know if a helicoil was used, or an epoxy (as suggested here). Maybe Henry Magno remembers. The work was done in 2004.

 
--
Jeff
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1957 convertible 220S (history)
1957 sedan 219 (history)


douglas broome
 

Excellent acomplemento my proposed article.

I am lucky I did not have that screw problem when I rebuilt my carbs.

Doug



-----Original Message-----
From: Len Sokoloff <sokoloff@...>
To: ponton <ponton@groups.io>
Sent: Sun, 24 Nov 2019 9:03
Subject: Re: [ponton] Solex Carburetor overhaul

Jeff - I can't remember all the particulars, but I had at least one screw on one of my carbs that stripped.  In talking with Will Samples, he said that he often sees that and does a helicoil?  He sent me the screws that I needed, but never did get around to fixing the issue before I sold my ponton.  You might want to touch base with Will to get a second possible solution to the problem.
Found the old message (2011) from Will:
> The acc pump threaded holes are so notorious for stripping that we now
> Helicoil all of them in each carb we do.
> To me it is a combination of the pot metal aging and the fine pitch thread
> they used.
>
> The problem is the thread is a 4 x .75 but Helicoils only come in 4 x .70,
> so you have to replace the screw, which I can
> send you as many as you need.
>
> Can you repair it in place?  I don't think so.  The time you think you will
> save by not removing the carb(s) will be spent trying
> to drill a hole upside down, then tapping it with the Helicoil tool, then
> threading the Helicoil and getting it just the right depth below
> the surface.  All of it blind.  I use magnifying glasses to make sure I get
> the Helicoil just the right depth below the surface.
>
> I would not try to do this with the carbs in place.
>
> While you are in there, consider Helicoiling all the holes in both carbs.
> The others will eventually pull out.
> w
Len
On 11/24/2019 5:18 AM, Jeff Miller wrote:
On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 05:02 AM, Jeff Miller wrote:
On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 03:09 AM, buntingron wrote:
The carb bodies are only pot metal and not very durable once the screws get re tightened.A helicoil at m4 is pretty small.  . I find the best idea is to grease a screw ,then put some epoxy ,such  as JB weld or Devcon in the hole then screw the greased screw into the hole. The grease allows the screw to come out after the epoxy has set. you will always get a bot of excess,thus the need to get the screw out.you can them finish the face for the pump 
I am adapting this tip for use on the Workshop page of www.mbzponton.org. Please clarify the last sentence - i.e. what "pump" is being referred to here?
Disregard! I went back to the first question in this topic and saw what pump was being referenced. I can visualize it now. On my 1957 190, the carb had stripped threads for the long metal line that ran from the distributor vacuum advance. They were repaired at one point, and now that I think about it, I don't know if a helicoil was used, or an epoxy (as suggested here). Maybe Henry Magno remembers. The work was done in 2004.
 
--
Jeff
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1957 sedan 219 (history)


Malcolm_UK
 


Hello Jeff,
 
The pump mentioned is the small one that bolts onto the side of the carburetor and is secured by the four M4 25mm long screws/bolts that are causing all the trouble when the threads are worn. In my case I found that a new set of bolts solved my problem for now, but I have all the options/suggestions to fall back on if they fail to hold the pump to the carburetor without petrol leakage problems. The pump is activated every time the accelerator pedal is sharply depressed.
 
Regards,
 
Malcolm
Scotland
 

---- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2019 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: [ponton] Solex Carburetor overhaul

On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 03:09 AM, buntingron wrote:
The carb bodies are only pot metal and not very durable once the screws get re tightened.A helicoil at m4 is pretty small.  . I find the best idea is to grease a screw ,then put some epoxy ,such  as JB weld or Devcon in the hole then screw the greased screw into the hole. The grease allows the screw to come out after the epoxy has set. you will always get a bot of excess,thus the need to get the screw out.you can them finish the face for the pump 
I am adapting this tip for use on the Workshop page of www.mbzponton.org. Please clarify the last sentence - i.e. what "pump" is being referred to here?
 
--
Jeff


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Jeff Miller (admin)
 
Edited

On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 09:57 AM, douglas broome wrote:
In the context of that discussion I believe Ron means the accelerator pump.
 
lot of excess, not bot of excess.
I figured he meant a "bit" of excess, but a "lot" of excess may also be true. Here is my first attempt at a placeholder for the topic.

http://www.mbzponton.org/valueadded/maintenance/carb_Solex_thread_repair.txt
 
--
Jeff


Jeff Miller (admin)
 

On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 10:06 AM, Malcolm_UK wrote:
The pump mentioned is the small one that bolts onto the side of the carburetor and is secured by the four M4 25mm long screws/bolts that are causing all the trouble when the threads are worn. In my case I found that a new set of bolts solved my problem for now, but I have all the options/suggestions to fall back on if they fail to hold the pump to the carburetor without petrol leakage problems. The pump is activated every time the accelerator pedal is sharply depressed.
Thanks. I will add details as needed a bit later today, or in the next day or so.
 
--
Jeff


Jeff Miller (admin)
 

On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 10:02 AM, douglas broome wrote:
Excellent acomplemento my proposed article.
 
I am lucky I did not have that screw problem when I rebuilt my carbs.
The two emails you sent were unreadable. Not sure what format you used. Try using Word (as usual) and re-send to me.
 
--
Jeff