Topics

Need info on how you use auto-leveling

John Johnson <pcbgcode@...>
 

Talk to me about auto-leveling.

What distance between probes are you all using?

Do you have any info on the average height variations you see on a board?

Thanks,
John

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Dylan Van Assche
 

Hello John,

I have a small tool called PCBZCorrect which automatically calculate the distances. I only have to give him the number of probe points I want (Grid 5x5, 6x6, ...).

Cheers,
Dylan


2014-04-14 16:58 GMT+02:00 John Johnson <pcbgcode@...>:

 

Talk to me about auto-leveling.

What distance between probes are you all using?

Do you have any info on the average height variations you see on a board?

Thanks,
John

--
Sent from a MacBook Pro




Ward Elder
 

I use 0.5 inches (~1.5cm) between points.  I only see a max of 0.1” of deviation on my table.

 

 

Thank you,

 

 

Ward M. Elder

Eldersoft

42 Appleton St.

Winnipeg, MB

R2G1K5

(204) 791-7754   (Cell)

ward@...

 

From: pcb-gcode@... [mailto:pcb-gcode@...] On Behalf Of John Johnson
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 9:58 AM
To: pcb-gcode@...
Subject: [pcb-gcode] Need info on how you use auto-leveling

 

 

Talk to me about auto-leveling.

 

What distance between probes are you all using?

 

Do you have any info on the average height variations you see on a board?

 

Thanks,

John

 

--
Sent from a MacBook Pro

Art Eckstein
 

JJ,
As most of the boards I do are relatively small, I use a spacing of .1" (2.5mm) typically.

Sometime ago, I did a mapping of a selected area of a piece of 1oz single sided 0.060" thick board stock that I got off fleebay.  The was held down in a vacuum chuck that had been surfaced in place on my router. The probe was a V cutter, probably 30°. The router has 8tpi single start acme lead screws with dumpster anti backlash nuts driven by direct couple stepper motors.

The selected area was approximately 1"x .5" and the probe spacing was again .1" in each the X and Y directions. the maximum difference between probed points was -0.0049"! 
This was done back when the original autoleveling was introduced to the group and because of the nearly 0.005" difference proved to me why it was needed as I had previously gotten varying etching width and in some cases complete skips of etching. 

HTH

Art
Country Bubba


  At 10:58 AM 4/14/2014, you wrote:


Talk to me about auto-leveling.

What distance between probes are you all using?

Do you have any info on the average height variations you see on a board?

Thanks,
John

--
Sent from a MacBook Pro


John Johnson <pcbgcode@...>
 

Art - I think they shipped you the corrugated PC board by mistake. :-)

0.1" over a 2"x3" board would be a huge number of probes.

I'll need to set a max number of probe points in each dimension. I think setting a distance would be more flexible for everyone, then I could scale that distance up if it resulted in too many points, let the user know and offer to abort, etc.

Still thinking things through. No promises.



On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Art Eckstein <art.eckstein@...> wrote:
 

JJ,
As most of the boards I do are relatively small, I use a spacing of .1" (2.5mm) typically.

Sometime ago, I did a mapping of a selected area of a piece of 1oz single sided 0.060" thick board stock that I got off fleebay.  The was held down in a vacuum chuck that had been surfaced in place on my router. The probe was a V cutter, probably 30°. The router has 8tpi single start acme lead screws with dumpster anti backlash nuts driven by direct couple stepper motors.

The selected area was approximately 1"x .5" and the probe spacing was again .1" in each the X and Y directions. the maximum difference between probed points was -0.0049"! 
This was done back when the original autoleveling was introduced to the group and because of the nearly 0.005" difference proved to me why it was needed as I had previously gotten varying etching width and in some cases complete skips of etching. 

HTH

Art
Country Bubba




  At 10:58 AM 4/14/2014, you wrote:


Talk to me about auto-leveling.

What distance between probes are you all using?

Do you have any info on the average height variations you see on a board?

Thanks,
John

--
Sent from a MacBook Pro





--
Sent from a MacBook Pro

stecher hawi
 



I use pcb-probe. 

I space probes 5 mm. Pcb-probe automatically figures out board size, I just input the input file. 

Variation is very small if I use a vacuum table. Fractions of a mm. 





On Apr 14, 2014, at 4:58 AM, John Johnson <pcbgcode@...> wrote:

Talk to me about auto-leveling.

What distance between probes are you all using?

Do you have any info on the average height variations you see on a board?

Thanks,
John

--
Sent from a MacBook Pro

Art Eckstein
 

JJ,
Yep, always heard to be wary of the "stuff" you get off the bay! On the other hand, I think I read the board tolerance can be up to 10% so that would be .006" on this .060 board!  It just goes to reinforce what others have said about the necessity of having autoleveling software. 

I purposely chose a small stepover for this test and again for the tests that I run for etching calibration tip tests. Doing bigger boards, I might go up to .25 or .375".  The current autoleveling that I am using defaults to .375" or 10mm if your using metric.



At 12:33 PM 4/14/2014, you wrote:


Art - I think they shipped you the corrugated PC board by mistake.

0.1" over a 2"x3" board would be a huge number of probes.

I'll need to set a max number of probe points in each dimension. I think setting a distance would be more flexible for everyone, then I could scale that distance up if it resulted in too many points, let the user know and offer to abort, etc.

Still thinking things through. No promises.



On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Art Eckstein <art.eckstein@... > wrote:
 

JJ,
As most of the boards I do are relatively small, I use a spacing of .1" (2.5mm) typically.

Sometime ago, I did a mapping of a selected area of a piece of 1oz single sided 0.060" thick board stock that I got off fleebay.  The was held down in a vacuum chuck that had been surfaced in place on my router. The probe was a V cutter, probably 30°. The router has 8tpi single start acme lead screws with dumpster anti backlash nuts driven by direct couple stepper motors.

The selected area was approximately 1"x .5" and the probe spacing was again .1" in each the X and Y directions. the maximum difference between probed points was -0.0049"! 
This was done back when the original autoleveling was introduced to the group and because of the nearly 0.005" difference proved to me why it was needed as I had previously gotten varying etching width and in some cases complete skips of etching. 

HTH

Art
Country Bubba



  At 10:58 AM 4/14/2014, you wrote:


Talk to me about auto-leveling.

What distance between probes are you all using?

Do you have any info on the average height variations you see on a board?

Thanks,
John

--
Sent from a MacBook Pro




--
Sent from a MacBook Pro


bruce q
 

--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 4/14/14, John Johnson <pcbgcode@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [pcb-gcode] Need info on how you use auto-leveling
To: "pcb-gcode@..." <pcb-gcode@...>
Date: Monday, April 14, 2014, 9:33 AM
JJ, will this new feature be able to be used as an option, in other words turn it on or off depending on what
one is doing ie; engraving PCB or just profiling/milling?
I have used the auto leveling from the UK and seems to work fine but would be nice not having to go through
so many steps to engrave a PCB which includes using PCB gcode wizard along with auto leveling.
Bruce

Art - I think they shipped you the
corrugated PC board by mistake. :-)
0.1" over a 2"x3" board would be a
huge number of probes.
I'll need to set a max number of probe points
in each dimension. I think setting a distance would be more
flexible for everyone, then I could scale that distance up
if it resulted in too many points, let the user know and
offer to abort, etc.

Still thinking things through. No
promises.


On Mon, Apr 14, 2014
at 11:40 AM, Art Eckstein <art.eckstein@...>
wrote:
















 











JJ,

As most of the boards I do are relatively small, I use a
spacing of
.1" (2.5mm) typically.


Sometime ago, I did a mapping of a selected area of a piece
of 1oz single
sided 0.060" thick board stock that I got off
fleebay.  The was
held down in a vacuum chuck that had been surfaced in place
on my router.
The probe was a V cutter, probably 30°. The router has 8tpi
single start
acme lead screws with dumpster anti backlash nuts driven by
direct couple
stepper motors.


The selected area was approximately 1"x .5" and
the probe
spacing was again .1" in each the X and Y directions.
the maximum
difference between probed points was -0.0049"! 

This was done back when the original autoleveling was
introduced to the
group and because of the nearly 0.005" difference
proved to me why
it was needed as I had previously gotten varying etching
width and in
some cases complete skips of etching. 


HTH


Art

Country Bubba




  At 10:58 AM 4/14/2014, you wrote:




Talk to me about
auto-leveling.


What distance between probes are you all using?


Do you have any info on the average height variations you
see on a
board?


Thanks,

John


--

Sent from a MacBook Pro





























--
Sent from a MacBook Pro

Dan Whittemore
 

I too  see about a .1mm deviation.  I do try to set my Z clearance at about 2mm for speed though


On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 8:58 AM, John Johnson <pcbgcode@...> wrote:
 

Talk to me about auto-leveling.

What distance between probes are you all using?

Do you have any info on the average height variations you see on a board?

Thanks,
John

--
Sent from a MacBook Pro