Date   
Re: changing "allway climb" and "normal" in midst of the job #pcbgcode #development

harry0099@...
 

Hello John,

I'm back again on this topic since I back then had the feeling you misunderstood my idea.
But I couln'd express it better and so retreated.

The topic itself doesn't let me retire of course and I now made an approach on my own.
I inserted on line of code (and several lines of comment, of course ;-)

Starting at line 1288 of "pcb-gcode.ulp", directly after
// set direction of cut around contour
if (((g_side == TOP) && !CLIMB_MILLING) || ((g_side == BOTTOM) && CLIMB_MILLING)) m_fwd = true; else m_fwd = false;
I inserted the following code
////////// Harald added 13 Feb 2020                        
// Provided our tool is rotating clockwise when viewed from the top.
// If we are in the first turn around a trace, we mill it normal (not climbing) since we mill the _inner_ side of the trench,
//   so we move the tool on the right side of the trace counter clock wise around the track.
// If we are in the second or beyond turn, switch to the opposite mode (climbing) since now we mill the _outer_ side of the trench,
//   which results again in "normal" (not climbing) milling for the given side of the trench.
// If the user chose "climbing" in the settings, both cases result in "climbing" milling.
if (m_pass_num == 0) m_fwd ; else m_fwd = !m_fwd;                        
//////////
And guess what.
Yes, the code performs as described above in the commment and as I wanted it to.

I think this is a valuable addition to your wonderfully craftet ULP, but please check that I didn't blast something I overlooked.
Please comment on this addition.

Thanks!

Harald

Note from moderator #pcbgcode

Art Eckstein
 

Hey Guys,
Not trying to step on any toes, but I have noticed lately that some of the messages are getting rather lengthy because they have not been trimmed.

It would be appreciated if you will do a bit better in this area and trim the previous posting remarks when applicable. I don't think we need remarks from several postings each time in a thread. Thanks in advance for your understanding and help.

Art
Country Bubba
Moderator

Re: Which not-so-Mini CNC mill #mill

PETER HARRISON
 

Hi Carsten,

I have been using a Stepcraft 420/2 machine for "pcb" etching for more than three years now - with a great deal of success.

Having bought the kit (currently about £950 or so I think) and assembled and adjusted very carefully, the results are
really very acceptable.  Tracks and isolation down to 0.012" ( 300 microns ) are easily achieved, and with care and my home made vacuum table, tracks down to 0.008" ( 200 microns ) are feasible.

I currently use Eagle 9.5.2  to prepare schematic and board designs, and of course use pcb-gcode to prepare GCODE files.  Use interface software is UCCNC driving a UC100 interface adapter into the Stepcraft control electronics. No editing of GCODE is required apart from expanding the board outline milling cut to step down in 0.3mm increments to profile the board and separate from the unused laminate.  Double sided boards are quite feasible - I position guide pins outside the area of the board outline to ensure registration.

The spindle is a VFD industrial unit from StonyCNC, and this can be pushed to 24,000 rpm if desired. Personally I restrict this to 18,000rpm when "etching" and drilling up to 3mm diameter. Tools are held in ER11 collets. It's not cheap but is totally reliable and controlled directly from the GCODE. I can personally recommend it.

The vacuum table was milled from a hardwood block I happened to have, and screws down onto an aluminium table (Stepcraft option).  Sacrificial top layer is 1/4" MDF milled flat in situ and drilled to allow airflow (or lack of it!).  Pump is a relatively cheap "Chinese" unit, which is quite adequate provided expose holes are sealed.  Before holes are drilled this achieves a vacuum approaching -13psi effectively overcoming any warping of the laminate (FR4).

This week I made a 2.5" square board containing some 30 through hole components and a couple of IC sockets ( 16 & 28 way ) in about 30 minutes of machine time.  Tool changing and surface probing takes as much time again.  UCCNC will interface directly with my home made touch probe to set Z axis zero for each tool.

Regards,

Peter.


On Wednesday, 12 February 2020, 20:43:04 GMT, Carsten Koester via Groups.Io <carsten@...> wrote:


Hi all,


at the risk of slightly hijacking the thread: Are there any specific recommendations for a *slightly* higher-class CNC mill?


If going from the initially asked US$200 budget to, say, $1500 to $2000 -- are there any specific devices that people have good experience with? Stepcraft D series was mentioned earlier on in this thread and looks like a solid choice at first glance to me; are there other opinions, or any other recommendations? When doing a Google search for Stepcraft (not specifically related to PCBs), X-Carve sometimes comes up as a direct counter-suggestion -- any experiences with that?


I guess I'm looking for something that may take some initial effort to set up (a kit is definitely OK and, in fact, preferred; and I don't mind doing some additional modifications/adjustments), but would be looking for something that after the initial setup is done, produces a usable board in a matter of minutes (or tens of minutes), not hours and without the need for continuous fiddling with.


Many thanks in advance,


-Carsten



On 2/12/20 9:27 AM, casy_ch@... wrote:
Hi

I tried to make suction/vacuum plates with styrofoam and it works quite well. It is easy and quick to make, once the drawing has been made
it just needs a soft rubber cord. I even milled small cases in hard plywood for measurement instruments on it

Jean.-Claude

Am 12.02.2020 um 07:01 schrieb joeaverage:
Hi,
I use doublesided tape to hold the PCB blank down and two 1.5mm diameter pins through the board to ensure
top and bottom side registration.

I use Autoleveller (freeware) as the height mapping utility. Today I did an circular PCB 80mm in diameter and there
was 0.18mm variation in height across the blank.  Autloeveller has a 3D visualizer that allows you to 'see' the variation.
If the variation exceeds 0.3mm over a 80 x 100mm blank I start looking for a reason, its not often necessary.


I don't have time to flycut the bed of my machine each time I make a board, I have ben making several a day at work
for some weeks now, I'd be lost without Autoleveller.

Craig


From: pcbgcode@groups.io <pcbgcode@groups.io> on behalf of John Ferguson via Groups.Io <jferg977@...>
Sent: Wednesday, 12 February 2020 4:47 PM
To: pcbgcode@groups.io <pcbgcode@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [pcbgcode] Which Mini CNC mill #mill
 
I agree that height mapping would be a good thing, but I don't have it. 
I hadn't thought of indicating my fixture after I install it but before
I fly-cut level it.  I can't get to this for a week or two, because I'm
building another shop setup, but when that's done, I'll show you what i
have.

john

On 2/11/20 9:19 PM, CJD wrote:
>
> I keep seeing this post about getting your bed flat.
>
> I don’t even worry about it.
>
> I get great results using the height mapping routine in candle.
>
> You cannot trust within .05mm a flat bed.
>
> When I height map there is almost always .5mm difference across a 10mm
> X 20mm piece of PCB.
>
> It gets even worse when the pcb piece is bigger.
>
> I don’t know how anyone can do this without height mapping.
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
> *From: *John Ferguson via Groups.Io <mailto:jferg977@...>
> *Sent: *Monday, February 10, 2020 8:01 PM
> *To: *pcbgcode@groups.io <mailto:pcbgcode@groups.io>
> *Subject: *Re: [pcbgcode] Which Mini CNC mill #mill
>
> how did you get your bed flat?
>
> On 2/10/20 6:03 PM, Dan.Staver wrote:
>
> > I get good results using very thin double-sided sticky carpet tape to
>
> > hold the PCBs down for milling.
>
> >
>
> > Dan Staver
>
> > Tave Tech Corp.
>
> > 3130 Hollycrest Dr.
>
> > Colorado Springs, CO 80920
>
> > +1-719-359-5352 - office
>
> > +1-719-502-1675 - cell
>
> > tavetech - Skype
>
> > dan.staver@...
>
> > www.tavetech.com
>
> > W3QDO
>
> >
>
> >> On Feb 10, 2020, at 11:06 AM, John Ferguson via Groups.Io
>
> >> <jferg977@...> wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >> Maybe there should be a subject change. Have a look at the two
>
> >> fixtures whose photos I've attached.
>
> >>
>
> >> I make printed circuits which are about 2 inch by 3 inch. I found
>
> >> that I couldn't get reliable trace widths unless the board was
>
> >> absolutely level to the machine. So I started with an MDF fixture
>
> >> bolted to the milling table and drilled and tapped in four places so
>
> >> I could use nylon screws to hold the pcb down. Every time I do a new
>
> >> setup, I mill the surface of the fixture with a fly-cutter to level
>
> >> it.  This works 100% of the time. I've had no bad experience with
>
> >> PCB's not being of constant thickness.
>
> >>
>
> >> I had such good luck with the MDF board that I made a better one for
>
> >> HDPE. I also made a jig to drill the holes in the pcb so they would
>
> >> be sure to align with the ones in the fixture.
>
> >>
>
> >> Frankly, I don't see how you could ever get reliable cuts without
>
> >> leveling the surface the pcb is secured to while etching.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> john
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Attachments:
>
> >> DSC07301.JPG: https://groups.io/g/pcbgcode/attachment/8053/0
>
> >> pcb-etching-fixture&pcb-drill-jig.JPG:
>
> >> https://groups.io/g/pcbgcode/attachment/8053/1
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >
>
>





Attachments:

Re: Which not-so-Mini CNC mill #mill

Carsten Koester
 

Hi all,


at the risk of slightly hijacking the thread: Are there any specific recommendations for a *slightly* higher-class CNC mill?


If going from the initially asked US$200 budget to, say, $1500 to $2000 -- are there any specific devices that people have good experience with? Stepcraft D series was mentioned earlier on in this thread and looks like a solid choice at first glance to me; are there other opinions, or any other recommendations? When doing a Google search for Stepcraft (not specifically related to PCBs), X-Carve sometimes comes up as a direct counter-suggestion -- any experiences with that?


I guess I'm looking for something that may take some initial effort to set up (a kit is definitely OK and, in fact, preferred; and I don't mind doing some additional modifications/adjustments), but would be looking for something that after the initial setup is done, produces a usable board in a matter of minutes (or tens of minutes), not hours and without the need for continuous fiddling with.


Many thanks in advance,


-Carsten



On 2/12/20 9:27 AM, casy_ch@... wrote:
Hi

I tried to make suction/vacuum plates with styrofoam and it works quite well. It is easy and quick to make, once the drawing has been made
it just needs a soft rubber cord. I even milled small cases in hard plywood for measurement instruments on it

Jean.-Claude

Am 12.02.2020 um 07:01 schrieb joeaverage:
Hi,
I use doublesided tape to hold the PCB blank down and two 1.5mm diameter pins through the board to ensure
top and bottom side registration.

I use Autoleveller (freeware) as the height mapping utility. Today I did an circular PCB 80mm in diameter and there
was 0.18mm variation in height across the blank.  Autloeveller has a 3D visualizer that allows you to 'see' the variation.
If the variation exceeds 0.3mm over a 80 x 100mm blank I start looking for a reason, its not often necessary.


I don't have time to flycut the bed of my machine each time I make a board, I have ben making several a day at work
for some weeks now, I'd be lost without Autoleveller.

Craig


From: pcbgcode@groups.io <pcbgcode@groups.io> on behalf of John Ferguson via Groups.Io <jferg977@...>
Sent: Wednesday, 12 February 2020 4:47 PM
To: pcbgcode@groups.io <pcbgcode@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [pcbgcode] Which Mini CNC mill #mill
 
I agree that height mapping would be a good thing, but I don't have it. 
I hadn't thought of indicating my fixture after I install it but before
I fly-cut level it.  I can't get to this for a week or two, because I'm
building another shop setup, but when that's done, I'll show you what i
have.

john

On 2/11/20 9:19 PM, CJD wrote:
>
> I keep seeing this post about getting your bed flat.
>
> I don’t even worry about it.
>
> I get great results using the height mapping routine in candle.
>
> You cannot trust within .05mm a flat bed.
>
> When I height map there is almost always .5mm difference across a 10mm
> X 20mm piece of PCB.
>
> It gets even worse when the pcb piece is bigger.
>
> I don’t know how anyone can do this without height mapping.
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
> *From: *John Ferguson via Groups.Io <mailto:jferg977@...>
> *Sent: *Monday, February 10, 2020 8:01 PM
> *To: *pcbgcode@groups.io <mailto:pcbgcode@groups.io>
> *Subject: *Re: [pcbgcode] Which Mini CNC mill #mill
>
> how did you get your bed flat?
>
> On 2/10/20 6:03 PM, Dan.Staver wrote:
>
> > I get good results using very thin double-sided sticky carpet tape to
>
> > hold the PCBs down for milling.
>
> >
>
> > Dan Staver
>
> > Tave Tech Corp.
>
> > 3130 Hollycrest Dr.
>
> > Colorado Springs, CO 80920
>
> > +1-719-359-5352 - office
>
> > +1-719-502-1675 - cell
>
> > tavetech - Skype
>
> > dan.staver@...
>
> > www.tavetech.com
>
> > W3QDO
>
> >
>
> >> On Feb 10, 2020, at 11:06 AM, John Ferguson via Groups.Io
>
> >> <jferg977@...> wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >> Maybe there should be a subject change. Have a look at the two
>
> >> fixtures whose photos I've attached.
>
> >>
>
> >> I make printed circuits which are about 2 inch by 3 inch. I found
>
> >> that I couldn't get reliable trace widths unless the board was
>
> >> absolutely level to the machine. So I started with an MDF fixture
>
> >> bolted to the milling table and drilled and tapped in four places so
>
> >> I could use nylon screws to hold the pcb down. Every time I do a new
>
> >> setup, I mill the surface of the fixture with a fly-cutter to level
>
> >> it.  This works 100% of the time. I've had no bad experience with
>
> >> PCB's not being of constant thickness.
>
> >>
>
> >> I had such good luck with the MDF board that I made a better one for
>
> >> HDPE. I also made a jig to drill the holes in the pcb so they would
>
> >> be sure to align with the ones in the fixture.
>
> >>
>
> >> Frankly, I don't see how you could ever get reliable cuts without
>
> >> leveling the surface the pcb is secured to while etching.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> john
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Attachments:
>
> >> DSC07301.JPG: https://groups.io/g/pcbgcode/attachment/8053/0
>
> >> pcb-etching-fixture&pcb-drill-jig.JPG:
>
> >> https://groups.io/g/pcbgcode/attachment/8053/1
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >
>
>





Attachments:

Re: Which Mini CNC mill #mill

casy_ch@tbwil.ch
 

Hi

I tried to make suction/vacuum plates with styrofoam and it works quite well. It is easy and quick to make, once the drawing has been made
it just needs a soft rubber cord. I even milled small cases in hard plywood for measurement instruments on it

Jean.-Claude

Am 12.02.2020 um 07:01 schrieb joeaverage:

Hi,
I use doublesided tape to hold the PCB blank down and two 1.5mm diameter pins through the board to ensure
top and bottom side registration.

I use Autoleveller (freeware) as the height mapping utility. Today I did an circular PCB 80mm in diameter and there
was 0.18mm variation in height across the blank.  Autloeveller has a 3D visualizer that allows you to 'see' the variation.
If the variation exceeds 0.3mm over a 80 x 100mm blank I start looking for a reason, its not often necessary.


I don't have time to flycut the bed of my machine each time I make a board, I have ben making several a day at work
for some weeks now, I'd be lost without Autoleveller.

Craig


From: pcbgcode@groups.io <pcbgcode@groups.io> on behalf of John Ferguson via Groups.Io <jferg977@...>
Sent: Wednesday, 12 February 2020 4:47 PM
To: pcbgcode@groups.io <pcbgcode@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [pcbgcode] Which Mini CNC mill #mill
 
I agree that height mapping would be a good thing, but I don't have it. 
I hadn't thought of indicating my fixture after I install it but before
I fly-cut level it.  I can't get to this for a week or two, because I'm
building another shop setup, but when that's done, I'll show you what i
have.

john

On 2/11/20 9:19 PM, CJD wrote:
>
> I keep seeing this post about getting your bed flat.
>
> I don’t even worry about it.
>
> I get great results using the height mapping routine in candle.
>
> You cannot trust within .05mm a flat bed.
>
> When I height map there is almost always .5mm difference across a 10mm
> X 20mm piece of PCB.
>
> It gets even worse when the pcb piece is bigger.
>
> I don’t know how anyone can do this without height mapping.
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
> *From: *John Ferguson via Groups.Io <mailto:jferg977@...>
> *Sent: *Monday, February 10, 2020 8:01 PM
> *To: *pcbgcode@groups.io <mailto:pcbgcode@groups.io>
> *Subject: *Re: [pcbgcode] Which Mini CNC mill #mill
>
> how did you get your bed flat?
>
> On 2/10/20 6:03 PM, Dan.Staver wrote:
>
> > I get good results using very thin double-sided sticky carpet tape to
>
> > hold the PCBs down for milling.
>
> >
>
> > Dan Staver
>
> > Tave Tech Corp.
>
> > 3130 Hollycrest Dr.
>
> > Colorado Springs, CO 80920
>
> > +1-719-359-5352 - office
>
> > +1-719-502-1675 - cell
>
> > tavetech - Skype
>
> > dan.staver@...
>
> > www.tavetech.com
>
> > W3QDO
>
> >
>
> >> On Feb 10, 2020, at 11:06 AM, John Ferguson via Groups.Io
>
> >> <jferg977@...> wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >> Maybe there should be a subject change. Have a look at the two
>
> >> fixtures whose photos I've attached.
>
> >>
>
> >> I make printed circuits which are about 2 inch by 3 inch. I found
>
> >> that I couldn't get reliable trace widths unless the board was
>
> >> absolutely level to the machine. So I started with an MDF fixture
>
> >> bolted to the milling table and drilled and tapped in four places so
>
> >> I could use nylon screws to hold the pcb down. Every time I do a new
>
> >> setup, I mill the surface of the fixture with a fly-cutter to level
>
> >> it.  This works 100% of the time. I've had no bad experience with
>
> >> PCB's not being of constant thickness.
>
> >>
>
> >> I had such good luck with the MDF board that I made a better one for
>
> >> HDPE. I also made a jig to drill the holes in the pcb so they would
>
> >> be sure to align with the ones in the fixture.
>
> >>
>
> >> Frankly, I don't see how you could ever get reliable cuts without
>
> >> leveling the surface the pcb is secured to while etching.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> john
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Attachments:
>
> >> DSC07301.JPG: https://groups.io/g/pcbgcode/attachment/8053/0
>
> >> pcb-etching-fixture&pcb-drill-jig.JPG:
>
> >> https://groups.io/g/pcbgcode/attachment/8053/1
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >
>
>





Re: Which Mini CNC mill #mill

joeaverage
 

Hi,
I use doublesided tape to hold the PCB blank down and two 1.5mm diameter pins through the board to ensure
top and bottom side registration.

I use Autoleveller (freeware) as the height mapping utility. Today I did an circular PCB 80mm in diameter and there
was 0.18mm variation in height across the blank.  Autloeveller has a 3D visualizer that allows you to 'see' the variation.
If the variation exceeds 0.3mm over a 80 x 100mm blank I start looking for a reason, its not often necessary.


I don't have time to flycut the bed of my machine each time I make a board, I have ben making several a day at work
for some weeks now, I'd be lost without Autoleveller.

Craig


From: pcbgcode@groups.io <pcbgcode@groups.io> on behalf of John Ferguson via Groups.Io <jferg977@...>
Sent: Wednesday, 12 February 2020 4:47 PM
To: pcbgcode@groups.io <pcbgcode@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [pcbgcode] Which Mini CNC mill #mill
 
I agree that height mapping would be a good thing, but I don't have it. 
I hadn't thought of indicating my fixture after I install it but before
I fly-cut level it.  I can't get to this for a week or two, because I'm
building another shop setup, but when that's done, I'll show you what i
have.

john

On 2/11/20 9:19 PM, CJD wrote:
>
> I keep seeing this post about getting your bed flat.
>
> I don’t even worry about it.
>
> I get great results using the height mapping routine in candle.
>
> You cannot trust within .05mm a flat bed.
>
> When I height map there is almost always .5mm difference across a 10mm
> X 20mm piece of PCB.
>
> It gets even worse when the pcb piece is bigger.
>
> I don’t know how anyone can do this without height mapping.
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
> *From: *John Ferguson via Groups.Io <mailto:jferg977@...>
> *Sent: *Monday, February 10, 2020 8:01 PM
> *To: *pcbgcode@groups.io <mailto:pcbgcode@groups.io>
> *Subject: *Re: [pcbgcode] Which Mini CNC mill #mill
>
> how did you get your bed flat?
>
> On 2/10/20 6:03 PM, Dan.Staver wrote:
>
> > I get good results using very thin double-sided sticky carpet tape to
>
> > hold the PCBs down for milling.
>
> >
>
> > Dan Staver
>
> > Tave Tech Corp.
>
> > 3130 Hollycrest Dr.
>
> > Colorado Springs, CO 80920
>
> > +1-719-359-5352 - office
>
> > +1-719-502-1675 - cell
>
> > tavetech - Skype
>
> > dan.staver@...
>
> > www.tavetech.com
>
> > W3QDO
>
> >
>
> >> On Feb 10, 2020, at 11:06 AM, John Ferguson via Groups.Io
>
> >> <jferg977@...> wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >> Maybe there should be a subject change. Have a look at the two
>
> >> fixtures whose photos I've attached.
>
> >>
>
> >> I make printed circuits which are about 2 inch by 3 inch. I found
>
> >> that I couldn't get reliable trace widths unless the board was
>
> >> absolutely level to the machine. So I started with an MDF fixture
>
> >> bolted to the milling table and drilled and tapped in four places so
>
> >> I could use nylon screws to hold the pcb down. Every time I do a new
>
> >> setup, I mill the surface of the fixture with a fly-cutter to level
>
> >> it.  This works 100% of the time. I've had no bad experience with
>
> >> PCB's not being of constant thickness.
>
> >>
>
> >> I had such good luck with the MDF board that I made a better one for
>
> >> HDPE. I also made a jig to drill the holes in the pcb so they would
>
> >> be sure to align with the ones in the fixture.
>
> >>
>
> >> Frankly, I don't see how you could ever get reliable cuts without
>
> >> leveling the surface the pcb is secured to while etching.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> john
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Attachments:
>
> >> DSC07301.JPG: https://groups.io/g/pcbgcode/attachment/8053/0
>
> >> pcb-etching-fixture&pcb-drill-jig.JPG:
>
> >> https://groups.io/g/pcbgcode/attachment/8053/1
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >
>
>




Re: Which Mini CNC mill #mill

mariob_1960@...
 

Use level mapping.

 

Still in project, I am trying to make a vacuum bed that allows perforations.


https://www.linkedin.com/posts/mario-basz-05274448_project-vacuum-table-for-cnc-machines-with-activity-6607908565933965312-HfAZ

Re: Which Mini CNC mill #mill

John Ferguson
 

I agree that height mapping would be a good thing, but I don't have it.  I hadn't thought of indicating my fixture after I install it but before I fly-cut level it.  I can't get to this for a week or two, because I'm building another shop setup, but when that's done, I'll show you what i have.

john

On 2/11/20 9:19 PM, CJD wrote:

I keep seeing this post about getting your bed flat.

I don’t even worry about it.

I get great results using the height mapping routine in candle.

You cannot trust within .05mm a flat bed.

When I height map there is almost always .5mm difference across a 10mm X 20mm piece of PCB.

It gets even worse when the pcb piece is bigger.

I don’t know how anyone can do this without height mapping.

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

*From: *John Ferguson via Groups.Io <mailto:jferg977=aol.com@groups.io>
*Sent: *Monday, February 10, 2020 8:01 PM
*To: *pcbgcode@groups.io <mailto:pcbgcode@groups.io>
*Subject: *Re: [pcbgcode] Which Mini CNC mill #mill

how did you get your bed flat?

On 2/10/20 6:03 PM, Dan.Staver wrote:

I get good results using very thin double-sided sticky carpet tape to
hold the PCBs down for milling.
Dan Staver
Tave Tech Corp.
3130 Hollycrest Dr.
Colorado Springs, CO 80920
+1-719-359-5352 - office
+1-719-502-1675 - cell
tavetech - Skype
dan.staver@...
www.tavetech.com
W3QDO
On Feb 10, 2020, at 11:06 AM, John Ferguson via Groups.Io
<jferg977=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Maybe there should be a subject change. Have a look at the two
fixtures whose photos I've attached.
I make printed circuits which are about 2 inch by 3 inch. I found
that I couldn't get reliable trace widths unless the board was
absolutely level to the machine. So I started with an MDF fixture
bolted to the milling table and drilled and tapped in four places so
I could use nylon screws to hold the pcb down. Every time I do a new
setup, I mill the surface of the fixture with a fly-cutter to level
it.  This works 100% of the time. I've had no bad experience with
PCB's not being of constant thickness.
I had such good luck with the MDF board that I made a better one for
HDPE. I also made a jig to drill the holes in the pcb so they would
be sure to align with the ones in the fixture.
Frankly, I don't see how you could ever get reliable cuts without
leveling the surface the pcb is secured to while etching.
john
Attachments:
DSC07301.JPG: https://groups.io/g/pcbgcode/attachment/8053/0
pcb-etching-fixture&pcb-drill-jig.JPG:
https://groups.io/g/pcbgcode/attachment/8053/1

Re: Which Mini CNC mill #mill

CJD
 

I keep seeing this post about getting your bed flat.

I don’t even worry about it.

I get great results using the height mapping routine in candle.

You cannot trust within .05mm a flat bed.

When I height map there is almost always .5mm difference across a 10mm X 20mm piece of PCB.

It gets even worse when the pcb piece is bigger.

I don’t know how anyone can do this without height mapping.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: John Ferguson via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 8:01 PM
To: pcbgcode@groups.io
Subject: Re: [pcbgcode] Which Mini CNC mill #mill

 

how did you get your bed flat?

 

On 2/10/20 6:03 PM, Dan.Staver wrote:

> I get good results using very thin double-sided sticky carpet tape to

> hold the PCBs down for milling.

> Dan Staver

> Tave Tech Corp.

> 3130 Hollycrest Dr.

> Colorado Springs, CO 80920

> +1-719-359-5352 - office

> +1-719-502-1675 - cell

> tavetech - Skype

> dan.staver@...

> www.tavetech.com

> W3QDO

>> On Feb 10, 2020, at 11:06 AM, John Ferguson via Groups.Io

>> <jferg977@...> wrote:

>> 

>> Maybe there should be a subject change. Have a look at the two

>> fixtures whose photos I've attached.

>> 

>> I make printed circuits which are about 2 inch by 3 inch. I found

>> that I couldn't get reliable trace widths unless the board was

>> absolutely level to the machine.  So I started with an MDF fixture

>> bolted to the milling table and drilled and tapped in four places so

>> I could use nylon screws to hold the pcb down. Every time I do a new

>> setup, I mill the surface of the fixture with a fly-cutter to level

>> it.  This works 100% of the time.  I've had no bad experience with

>> PCB's not being of constant thickness.

>> 

>> I had such good luck with the MDF board that I made a better one for

>> HDPE. I also made a jig to drill the holes in the pcb so they would

>> be sure to align with the ones in the fixture.

>> 

>> Frankly, I don't see how you could ever get reliable cuts without

>> leveling the surface the pcb is secured to while etching.

>> 

>> 

>> john

>> 

>> 

>> Attachments:

>> DSC07301.JPG: https://groups.io/g/pcbgcode/attachment/8053/0

>> pcb-etching-fixture&pcb-drill-jig.JPG:

>> https://groups.io/g/pcbgcode/attachment/8053/1

>> 

>> 

>> 

>

 

 

 

 

Re: Which Mini CNC mill #mill

John Ferguson
 

how did you get your bed flat?

On 2/10/20 6:03 PM, Dan.Staver wrote:
I get good results using very thin double-sided sticky carpet tape to hold the PCBs down for milling.

Dan Staver
Tave Tech Corp.
3130 Hollycrest Dr.
Colorado Springs, CO 80920
+1-719-359-5352 - office
+1-719-502-1675 - cell
tavetech - Skype
dan.staver@...
www.tavetech.com
W3QDO

On Feb 10, 2020, at 11:06 AM, John Ferguson via Groups.Io <jferg977=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Maybe there should be a subject change. Have a look at the two fixtures whose photos I've attached.

I make printed circuits which are about 2 inch by 3 inch. I found that I couldn't get reliable trace widths unless the board was absolutely level to the machine.  So I started with an MDF fixture bolted to the milling table and drilled and tapped in four places so I could use nylon screws to hold the pcb down. Every time I do a new setup, I mill the surface of the fixture with a fly-cutter to level it.  This works 100% of the time.  I've had no bad experience with PCB's not being of constant thickness.

I had such good luck with the MDF board that I made a better one for HDPE. I also made a jig to drill the holes in the pcb so they would be sure to align with the ones in the fixture.

Frankly, I don't see how you could ever get reliable cuts without leveling the surface the pcb is secured to while etching.


john


Attachments:
DSC07301.JPG: https://groups.io/g/pcbgcode/attachment/8053/0
pcb-etching-fixture&pcb-drill-jig.JPG: https://groups.io/g/pcbgcode/attachment/8053/1


Re: Which Mini CNC mill #mill

John Ferguson
 

when I put the fixture on the table there is no way to assure that it will be level. I don't have to surface it between boards if I don't remove the fixture, but i use the router for other projects which I use the vacuum chuck for.

do you ever remove your jig?

On 2/10/20 3:15 PM, Christian Becerra wrote:
if your pcb's are always the same dimensions, you can add vacuum to the hdpe (or delrin) holder, that way you do not need the screws and the vacuum overcomes any board warping. No need to resurface your jig.
I have used this setup for years without failures.

cb

Get BlueMail for Android <http://www.bluemail.me/r?b=15774>
On Feb 10, 2020, at 11:05 AM, "John Ferguson via Groups.Io" <aol.com <mailto:jferg977=<a>@groups.io target=_blank>jferg977=aol.com <http://aol.com>@groups.io> wrote:

Maybe there should be a subject change.  Have a look at the two fixtures
whose photos I've attached.

I make printed circuits which are about 2 inch by 3 inch. I found that I
couldn't get reliable trace widths unless the board was absolutely level
to the machine.  So I started with an MDF fixture bolted to the milling
table and drilled and tapped in four places so I could use nylon screws
to hold the pcb down. Every time I do a new setup, I mill the surface of
the fixture with a fly-cutter to level it.  This works 100% of the
time.  I've had no bad experience with PCB's not being of constant
thickness.

I had such good luck with the MDF board that I made a better one for
HDPE. I also made a jig to drill the holes in the pcb so they would be
sure to align with the ones in the fixture.

Frankly, I don't see how you could ever get reliable cuts without
leveling the surface the pcb is secured to while etching.


john


Attachments:
DSC07301.JPG:https://groups.io/g/pcbgcode/attachment/8053/0
pcb-etching-fixture&pcb-drill-jig.JPG:https://groups.io/g/pcbgcode/attachment/8053/1




Re: Which Mini CNC mill #mill

Dan.Staver
 

I get good results using very thin double-sided sticky carpet tape to hold the PCBs down for milling.

Dan Staver
Tave Tech Corp.
3130 Hollycrest Dr.
Colorado Springs, CO 80920
+1-719-359-5352 - office
+1-719-502-1675 - cell
tavetech - Skype
dan.staver@...
www.tavetech.com
W3QDO

On Feb 10, 2020, at 11:06 AM, John Ferguson via Groups.Io <jferg977@...> wrote:

Maybe there should be a subject change.  Have a look at the two fixtures whose photos I've attached.

I make printed circuits which are about 2 inch by 3 inch. I found that I couldn't get reliable trace widths unless the board was absolutely level to the machine.  So I started with an MDF fixture bolted to the milling table and drilled and tapped in four places so I could use nylon screws to hold the pcb down. Every time I do a new setup, I mill the surface of the fixture with a fly-cutter to level it.  This works 100% of the time.  I've had no bad experience with PCB's not being of constant thickness.

I had such good luck with the MDF board that I made a better one for HDPE. I also made a jig to drill the holes in the pcb so they would be sure to align with the ones in the fixture.

Frankly, I don't see how you could ever get reliable cuts without leveling the surface the pcb is secured to while etching.


john


Attachments:
DSC07301.JPG: https://groups.io/g/pcbgcode/attachment/8053/0
pcb-etching-fixture&pcb-drill-jig.JPG: https://groups.io/g/pcbgcode/attachment/8053/1



Re: Which Mini CNC mill #mill

Christian Becerra
 

If your pcb's are always the same dimensions, you can add vacuum to the hdpe (or delrin) holder, that way you do not need the screws and the vacuum overcomes any board warping. No need to resurface your jig.
I have used this setup for years without failures.

cb

On Feb 10, 2020, at 11:05 AM, "John Ferguson via Groups.Io" <aol.com@groups.io target=_blank>jferg977=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Maybe there should be a subject change.  Have a look at the two fixtures 
whose photos I've attached.

I make printed circuits which are about 2 inch by 3 inch. I found that I
couldn't get reliable trace widths unless the board was absolutely level
to the machine.  So I started with an MDF fixture bolted to the milling
table and drilled and tapped in four places so I could use nylon screws
to hold the pcb down. Every time I do a new setup, I mill the surface of
the fixture with a fly-cutter to level it.  This works 100% of the
time.  I've had no bad experience with PCB's not being of constant
thickness.

I had such good luck with the MDF board that I made a better one for
HDPE. I also made a jig to drill the holes in the pcb so they would be
sure to align with the ones in the fixture.

Frankly, I don't see how you could ever get reliable cuts without
leveling the surface the pcb is secured to while etching.


john


Attachments:
DSC07301.JPG: https://groups.io/g/pcbgcode/attachment/8053/0
pcb-etching-fixture&pcb-drill-jig.JPG: https://groups.io/g/pcbgcode/attachment/8053/1




Re: Which Mini CNC mill #mill

John Ferguson
 

Maybe there should be a subject change.  Have a look at the two fixtures whose photos I've attached.

I make printed circuits which are about 2 inch by 3 inch. I found that I couldn't get reliable trace widths unless the board was absolutely level to the machine.  So I started with an MDF fixture bolted to the milling table and drilled and tapped in four places so I could use nylon screws to hold the pcb down. Every time I do a new setup, I mill the surface of the fixture with a fly-cutter to level it.  This works 100% of the time.  I've had no bad experience with PCB's not being of constant thickness.

I had such good luck with the MDF board that I made a better one for HDPE. I also made a jig to drill the holes in the pcb so they would be sure to align with the ones in the fixture.

Frankly, I don't see how you could ever get reliable cuts without leveling the surface the pcb is secured to while etching.


john

Re: Which Mini CNC mill #mill

Ken McNabb
 

Yes but don’t expect anything fantastic for the price. These do not have a single piece of industrial grade componentry on them, and rely of the fact most people are happy to continually fiddle with them.

I purchased a significantly more expensive and upgraded version compared to this, and it’s still a piece of crap out of the box.

After a lot of re-engineering the unit, it now makes a half decent pcb, but it needs a good amount of finessing to keep it consistent.

 

From: pcbgcode@groups.io <pcbgcode@groups.io> On Behalf Of John Johnson via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, 10 February 2020 2:12 PM
To: pcbgcode@groups.io
Subject: Re: [pcbgcode] Which Mini CNC mill #mill

 

Wow. I can’t believe how cheap that stuff is!



On Feb 9, 2020, at 6:11 PM, Reid Simonsen <reidsim@...> wrote:



John S.

 

Thank you for your information. I understand what you mean. I have done on 3d printer to put it together. There were some missing parts. Can you tell me more about the good spindle?  I found the other one 4018 but it doesn't come with the power supply, controller board, and stepping motor.  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000620910567.html?src=google&src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=494-037-6276&isdl=y&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_shopping&aff_platform=google&aff_short_key=UneMJZVf&&albagn=888888&albcp=1582410664&albag=59754279756&trgt=743612850714&crea=en4000620910567&netw=u&device=c&gclid=CjwKCAiA-P7xBRAvEiwAow-VaQV5fw_GGAY15nfnWm3m3CzHWRiPZGXJrWW8cQPDEUP6iJs-iDMA0hoCxEUQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

I am not sure if it is worth to buy CNC4018 and order separate parts like controller board, spindle, stepping motors to run it.

 

Reid

 

On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 6:52 PM mariob_1960 via Groups.Io <mariob_1960=yahoo.com.ar@groups.io> wrote:

Use Eagle, pcb gcode, a cnc diy with ball screw, before spindle of 500w, now of 1.5Kw, bCNC with autolevel.

Attachments:

Re: Which Mini CNC mill #mill

John Johnson
 

Wow. I can’t believe how cheap that stuff is!


On Feb 9, 2020, at 6:11 PM, Reid Simonsen <reidsim@...> wrote:


John S.

Thank you for your information. I understand what you mean. I have done on 3d printer to put it together. There were some missing parts. Can you tell me more about the good spindle?  I found the other one 4018 but it doesn't come with the power supply, controller board, and stepping motor.  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000620910567.html?src=google&src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=494-037-6276&isdl=y&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_shopping&aff_platform=google&aff_short_key=UneMJZVf&&albagn=888888&albcp=1582410664&albag=59754279756&trgt=743612850714&crea=en4000620910567&netw=u&device=c&gclid=CjwKCAiA-P7xBRAvEiwAow-VaQV5fw_GGAY15nfnWm3m3CzHWRiPZGXJrWW8cQPDEUP6iJs-iDMA0hoCxEUQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

I am not sure if it is worth to buy CNC4018 and order separate parts like controller board, spindle, stepping motors to run it.

Reid

On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 6:52 PM mariob_1960 via Groups.Io <mariob_1960=yahoo.com.ar@groups.io> wrote:
Use Eagle, pcb gcode, a cnc diy with ball screw, before spindle of 500w, now of 1.5Kw, bCNC with autolevel.

Attachments:

Re: Which Mini CNC mill #mill

John Swenson
 

Here is one on aliexpress that I like:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32819828853.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.5caa7551aaHfri&algo_pvid=deb9f037-5eb4-4e4f-8710-5c091902a18a&algo_expid=deb9f037-5eb4-4e4f-8710-5c091902a18a-21&btsid=0a7f3afb-06af-447d-909f-dfe479312f23&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_5,searchweb201603_53

This has the motor, controller and a tachometer which lets you know the actual speed of the spindle. It does NOT have a power supply. You can get kits just like this with a power supply but they are open frame power supplies, I don't like these around mills, especially when milling metal, little bits of metal can get down inside the supply and start a fire, blow up etc. I recommend a sealed table top supply, such as:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000594896227.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.68954c6eDJQsVB&algo_pvid=479c9d08-09cc-43a8-a10f-f23df6bfb577&algo_expid=479c9d08-09cc-43a8-a10f-f23df6bfb577-31&btsid=3e030ce6-7e42-4e96-8624-b265c8cff7b1&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_5,searchweb201603_53

Get the 24V 10A version. You may need to find or make an adapter to get the DC out to the controller which does not have a standard DC connector.

The 3018 you first referenced is fine, just make sure you get one with a 24V supply. Note: if you get the separate spindle you will have TWO power supplies, one for the controller board on the mill and one for the spindle controller.

John S.

On 2/9/2020 3:10 PM, Reid Simonsen wrote:
John S.
Thank you for your information. I understand what you mean. I have done on 3d printer to put it together. There were some missing parts. Can you tell me more about the good spindle?  I found the other one 4018 but it doesn't come with the power supply, controller board, and stepping motor. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000620910567.html?src=google&src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=494-037-6276&isdl=y&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_shopping&aff_platform=google&aff_short_key=UneMJZVf&&albagn=888888&albcp=1582410664&albag=59754279756&trgt=743612850714&crea=en4000620910567&netw=u&device=c&gclid=CjwKCAiA-P7xBRAvEiwAow-VaQV5fw_GGAY15nfnWm3m3CzHWRiPZGXJrWW8cQPDEUP6iJs-iDMA0hoCxEUQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
I am not sure if it is worth to buy CNC4018 and order separate parts like controller board, spindle, stepping motors to run it.
Reid
On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 6:52 PM mariob_1960 via Groups.Io <mariob_1960=yahoo.com.ar@groups.io <mailto:yahoo.com.ar@groups.io>> wrote:
Use Eagle, pcb gcode, a cnc diy with ball screw, before spindle of
500w, now of 1.5Kw, bCNC with autolevel.
Attachments:
* 997C7B31-7571-4335-826D-FB2FBC4FADE0.jpeg
<https://groups.io/g/pcbgcode/attachment/8048/0>
* 6B177761-A822-43B5-BCE6-2347812664A9.jpeg
<https://groups.io/g/pcbgcode/attachment/8048/1>
* BFFD53B0-D9DB-4757-A570-055482D7D6F9.jpeg
<https://groups.io/g/pcbgcode/attachment/8048/2>

Re: Which Mini CNC mill #mill

Reid Simonsen
 

John S.

Thank you for your information. I understand what you mean. I have done on 3d printer to put it together. There were some missing parts. Can you tell me more about the good spindle?  I found the other one 4018 but it doesn't come with the power supply, controller board, and stepping motor.  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000620910567.html?src=google&src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=494-037-6276&isdl=y&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_shopping&aff_platform=google&aff_short_key=UneMJZVf&&albagn=888888&albcp=1582410664&albag=59754279756&trgt=743612850714&crea=en4000620910567&netw=u&device=c&gclid=CjwKCAiA-P7xBRAvEiwAow-VaQV5fw_GGAY15nfnWm3m3CzHWRiPZGXJrWW8cQPDEUP6iJs-iDMA0hoCxEUQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

I am not sure if it is worth to buy CNC4018 and order separate parts like controller board, spindle, stepping motors to run it.

Reid

On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 6:52 PM mariob_1960 via Groups.Io <mariob_1960=yahoo.com.ar@groups.io> wrote:
Use Eagle, pcb gcode, a cnc diy with ball screw, before spindle of 500w, now of 1.5Kw, bCNC with autolevel.

Attachments:

Re: Which Mini CNC mill #mill

mariob_1960@...
 

Use Eagle, pcb gcode, a cnc diy with ball screw, before spindle of 500w, now of 1.5Kw, bCNC with autolevel.

Re: Which Mini CNC mill #mill

CJD
 

I use Eagle with the gcode plugin - a (ULP) for Eagle, and a SainSmart 3018 which is just like the one you stated above. I use Candle to control the 3018 with a 20 degree V bit and this is my result. A PCB that was made from Mr. Carlson's LAB Schematic. As you can see it creates a one sided board for SMD parts. The main chip is a 20 tab IC on the top. LM3914V SMD. I did this after adding probes so I could use height map. I set the gcode to Z-0.2mm deep. Also, I had not added in homing switches yet. You can tell as I moved the board prior to drilling so I had to by hand realign. Holes are slightly off but usable. I did make a second one with the holes dead center. That is what I used to build the Capacitor Checker. I just never trashed this board so I had it as an example of what one can do. Hope this helps, but it takes days not hours of fiddling to get these results. I can be done and once done for under $200 you can have a great working system. It cost me over 200 hours of my time. And I am talking working time. Not the sitting around time waiting for a board to get height mapped and cut. Now from gcode to made board is about 30 min if I decide to do a detailed height map, otherwise half that time.