Date   
X Axis Origin Shift During Milling

sdmonaco
 


Hi guys,


I have an problem with my x-axis shifting (always the same direction) during a board milling operation.  It only happens occasionally (about 1 out of 10 board designs).  I have documented the latest occurrence with the pcb-gcode preview window shown in the file Hybrid_RBE_Bot_Etch.bmp and the resulting milled pcbs shown in the file PCB Fab Error.jpg.  The GCode was verified using NC Corrector prior to doing the etch milling operation.   I am using a Probotix V90 mill with Mach 3 control software.  I have never heard any skipping steps during the milling when the problem occurs .  When I stop the job and issue a G00 X0 Y0 the mill goes to the incorrect x-axis position.  I have never seen the problem in the y-axis.  Anyone else ever seen this issue?


Thanks,


Sam 

 

Re: Spring loaded engraving tool

Dave Sage
 

<<< a 'mil' is a thousandths of something

 

Exactly my point. Therefore without some reference to what he's using the term to describe there becomes a HUGE difference in the accuracy of what he's claiming to be measuring.

i.e. there is a big difference between 1/1000 of a mm and 1/1000 of an inch.

 

Perhaps I should not have said it's a mistake. But more of a confusion, especially when there are so many people on forums that use the metric system as their standard. As a machinist you could spend a lot of money and time machining something to an accuracy of 1 mil (metric) when all the customer really wanted was accuracy to one thou (inch).  "Common parlance" doesn't cut it.

 

So while you are throwing around wiki references. Here's one for you that lists  many of the common uses for "mil"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil

 

Sage

 

 

 

 

Re: Spring loaded engraving tool

jeff.birt
 

>>I assume when you say "mils" you are referring to metric mils?
>>Or are you making the common mistake of calling a thou a mil?

It is not a mistake, a ‘mil’ is a thousandths of something, so ‘mil’ can be used quite correctly when referring to a thousandth of an inch. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousandth_of_an_inch

 

In PCB parlance the term ‘mil’ meaning 0.001”  is also quite common.

 

Jeff Birt

Soigeneirs.com

 

From: pcb-gcode@... [mailto:pcb-gcode@...]
Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 8:06 PM
To: pcb-gcode@...
Subject: [pcb-gcode] Re: Spring loaded engraving tool

 

 

Thanks Paul:

 

That's the kind of feedback I was looking for since I've only ever tried milling a board once and I had pretty good relults.

 I can agree that if your machine Z axis is accurate and repeatable (no backlash etc) and you have a good hold down process (like a vacuum table) then you probably don't need the auto leveling software. I figure it's much like using backlash compensation for milling. It doesn't really work very well and is no replacement for a good machine - it's a crutch if you will.

 

BTW

 

I assume when you say "mils" you are referring to metric mils? Or are you making the common mistake of calling a thou a mil?

 

Sage

Re: Spring loaded engraving tool

Dave Sage
 

Thanks Paul:

 

That's the kind of feedback I was looking for since I've only ever tried milling a board once and I had pretty good relults.

 I can agree that if your machine Z axis is accurate and repeatable (no backlash etc) and you have a good hold down process (like a vacuum table) then you probably don't need the auto leveling software. I figure it's much like using backlash compensation for milling. It doesn't really work very well and is no replacement for a good machine - it's a crutch if you will.

 

BTW

 

I assume when you say "mils" you are referring to metric mils? Or are you making the common mistake of calling a thou a mil?

 

Sage

Re: Spring loaded engraving tool

Paul Kiedrowski
 

Those floating bits probably have a lot of runout due to the sliding mechanism. More for low-tolerance engraving work than PCB milling.
Plus the shank size is a lot higher than 1/8" so you need a bigger holder.
 
I myself never see a need for autolevel softare. With a decent machine table and PCB hold-down method you can easily stay within a few mils flatness.
Using endmills instead of pointed tools allows for enough Z variation to keep it under control.
With a 62mil PCB, I set depth to 8-10 mils and that allows for up to about +/- 6 mils of non-flatness.
Of course with larger boards it may be more difficult, most of my work is less than 4 x 4 inches.
 
The original T-Tech PCB machines and others used the spring-mounted foot method for depth control.
It works very well, and they used just a solenoid for Z up/down, not a stepper/ballscrew.
The whole Z spindle rides on the PCB (cut depth is of course settable).
The nice thing is you don't have to even calibrate for Z=0, the head just drops and its good to go.
 
-Paul

From: "davesage12@... [pcb-gcode]"
To: pcb-gcode@...
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2014 8:11 AM
Subject: [pcb-gcode] Spring loaded engraving tool

 
Has anyone tried one of these instead of messing with auto-levelling software?
This link is the depth control add-one for the tool holder in the second link. There is an animation in the second link showing the operation


 

 


Re: pcb-gcode error

Art Eckstein
 

Unfortunately that line is no longer being developed.

However, JJ (author of pcb-gcode) is developing his version but at this time is not ready for release.

Ivan de Jesus has his stand alone version and can be found at:
https://github.com/ideras/pcb-probe

daedelus has a version that is available and the latest uses a stand alone probing file which will allow restarting without re-probing in case of a needed tool change and can be found at:

http://www.autoleveller.co.uk/

Also in answer to your original question, there may have been a spindle speed entry that needed to be filled in. Even if you do not have automatic spindle control, by putting a value in there is should work. (Going strictly from memory here)

Art
Country Bubba

At 05:27 PM 6/29/2014, you wrote:


Thank you for the reply !
Actually I had this one before I downloaded v3.5.2.11 is because it had a setting for height probing. Is there any other way I can height probe my pcb from inside eagle (using mach3 of course) ?

Re: pcb-gcode error

Alex P.
 

Thank you for the reply !
Actually I had this one before I downloaded v3.5.2.11 is because it had a setting for height probing. Is there any other way I can height probe my pcb from inside eagle (using mach3 of course) ?

Re: pcb-gcode error

Art Eckstein
 

Alex,
Might I suggest that you download V3.6.2.4 as it has several updates.
It can be found here:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/pcb-gcode/files/2Software/pcb-gcode%203.6.2/

Art
Country Bubba

At 04:49 PM 6/29/2014, you wrote:


Hi,

I downloaded pcb-gcode v3.5.2.11 and when I press "Accept and make my board" in pcb-gcode-setup and error occurs and the following message is displayed:


C:&#92;Program Files&#92;EAGLE-6.5.0&#92;ulp&#92;source&#92;pcb-file-utils.h(273):


Unknown identifier 'SPINDLE_SPEED'


Included by:

C:&#92;Program Files&#92;EAGLE-6.5.0&#92;ulp&#92;pcb-gcode.ulp(25)


Any ideas why this happens and what I can do to fix it ?


Thanks in advance,

Alex

pcb-gcode error

Alex P.
 

Hi,

I downloaded pcb-gcode v3.5.2.11 and when I press "Accept and make my board" in pcb-gcode-setup and error occurs and the following message is displayed:


C:\Program Files\EAGLE-6.5.0\ulp\source\pcb-file-utils.h(273):


Unknown identifier 'SPINDLE_SPEED'


Included by:

C:\Program Files\EAGLE-6.5.0\ulp\pcb-gcode.ulp(25)


Any ideas why this happens and what I can do to fix it ?


Thanks in advance,

Alex

Re: Spring loaded engraving tool

Dan Andersson
 

Why bother?!


I have autolevel integrated in EMC2. It should be possible do something similar in MACH3
or whatever you use.




tried it.


never again.


Back to autolevel!


//Dan, M0DFI


On 28 Jun 2014 06:11:37 -0700
"davesage12@... [pcb-gcode]" <pcb-gcode@...> wrote:


Has anyone tried one of these instead of messing with auto-levelling software?
This link is the depth control add-one for the tool holder in the second link. There is an animation in the second link showing the operation


Depth Control Engraving with the Spring Loaded Engraving Tools http://www.2linc.com/engraving_depth_overview.htm




http://www.2linc.com/engraving_depth_overview.htm

Depth Control Engraving with the Spring Loaded Engravin... http://www.2linc.com/engraving_depth_overview.htm Control Engraving Depth with the spring loaded engraving tools and engraving depth controls systems. The spring loaded engraving tool is an an engraving syste...



View on www.2linc.com http://www.2linc.com/engraving_depth_overview.htm
Preview by Yahoo



Spring Loaded Engraving Tools engrave flat and uneven surfaces http://www.2linc.com/spring_loaded_engraving_tool.htm




http://www.2linc.com/spring_loaded_engraving_tool.htm

Spring Loaded Engraving Tools engrave flat and unev... http://www.2linc.com/spring_loaded_engraving_tool.htm The spring loaded engraving tool is an engraving and marking system for cnc machines. Spring Loaded Engraving Tool Kit includes free engraving software for...



View on www.2linc.com http://www.2linc.com/spring_loaded_engraving_tool.htm
Preview by Yahoo


Spring loaded engraving tool

Dave Sage
 

Has anyone tried one of these instead of messing with auto-levelling software?

This link is the depth control add-one for the tool holder in the second link. There is an animation in the second link showing the operation


Depth Control Engraving with the Spring Loaded Engraving Tools


 

Spring Loaded Engraving Tools engrave flat and uneven surfaces


 

Re: Autoleveler on tb6560

The Guy Train 1
 

I want to say thanks guys for all your help. I finally made it. The cnc is using autorleveler prog. It took me a wild to figure out what was the problem but I finally found it. It was the side of the x and y axis bed size and the z axis. That is why in the video you can see the height is too hieght. 
 
Thx guy 
Excuse me English.

Re: PCB 'moves'

Dylan Van Assche
 

Hi,

The problem was a coupler of the Y-axis motor.

Cheers,
Dylan


2014-06-25 13:04 GMT+02:00 'Eric van de Weyer' eric@... [pcb-gcode] <pcb-gcode@...>:

 

Hi Dylan,

 

Is either of the motors “growling” at some stage of its operation instead of making a nice even tone when it moves? You may have a mechanical problem due to some drag somewhere.

 

73....Eric VK2VE.

From: pcb-gcode@... [mailto:pcb-gcode@...]
Sent: Wednesday, 25 June 2014 4:20 AM
To: pcb-gcode@...
Subject: Re: [pcb-gcode] PCB 'moves'

 




I ran a test with a simple circle and I found out that I get an oval... I think there's a problem on the Y-axis since the circle is somethings milled as a circle and sometimes as an oval.

So it isn't the software... I must be my CNC and that's something I don't understand since it worked last time I used it.

 

Cheers,

Dylan

 

 

2014-06-24 19:35 GMT+02:00 Art Eckstein art.eckstein@... [pcb-gcode] <pcb-gcode@...>:

 

The first place I would check would be any couplers on the lead screws.  I have not heard of anybody having problems like this on the software side of the equation.

Art
Country Bubba





At 01:20 PM 6/24/2014, you wrote:

Hi everyone,


I didn't made any PCB's last month during the exams (no time :S ) and I started again with milling a new PCB today but I my layout 'moves' every pass.


Do I need to search for the cause in the new EAGLE PCB, PCB-GCode or my router?

I had no problems before my exams so I was a surprise for me


Cheers,

Dylan Van Assche



 

--

Modulebaan.tk







This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.





Re: PCB 'moves'

Eric
 

Hi Dylan,

 

Is either of the motors “growling” at some stage of its operation instead of making a nice even tone when it moves? You may have a mechanical problem due to some drag somewhere.

 

73....Eric VK2VE.

From: pcb-gcode@... [mailto:pcb-gcode@...]
Sent: Wednesday, 25 June 2014 4:20 AM
To: pcb-gcode@...
Subject: Re: [pcb-gcode] PCB 'moves'

 




I ran a test with a simple circle and I found out that I get an oval... I think there's a problem on the Y-axis since the circle is somethings milled as a circle and sometimes as an oval.

So it isn't the software... I must be my CNC and that's something I don't understand since it worked last time I used it.

 

Cheers,

Dylan

 

 

2014-06-24 19:35 GMT+02:00 Art Eckstein art.eckstein@... [pcb-gcode] <pcb-gcode@...>:

 

The first place I would check would be any couplers on the lead screws.  I have not heard of anybody having problems like this on the software side of the equation.

Art
Country Bubba





At 01:20 PM 6/24/2014, you wrote:

Hi everyone,


I didn't made any PCB's last month during the exams (no time :S ) and I started again with milling a new PCB today but I my layout 'moves' every pass.


Do I need to search for the cause in the new EAGLE PCB, PCB-GCode or my router?

I had no problems before my exams so I was a surprise for me


Cheers,

Dylan Van Assche



 

--

Modulebaan.tk







This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.


Re: PCB 'moves'

Dylan Van Assche
 

Hi,

I found it! The problem was the motor coupler.

Cheers,
Dylan


2014-06-24 20:20 GMT+02:00 Dylan Van Assche <dylan.rscafan@...>:

I ran a test with a simple circle and I found out that I get an oval... I think there's a problem on the Y-axis since the circle is somethings milled as a circle and sometimes as an oval.
So it isn't the software... I must be my CNC and that's something I don't understand since it worked last time I used it.

Cheers,
Dylan



2014-06-24 19:35 GMT+02:00 Art Eckstein art.eckstein@... [pcb-gcode] <pcb-gcode@...>:

 

The first place I would check would be any couplers on the lead screws.  I have not heard of anybody having problems like this on the software side of the equation.

Art
Country Bubba





At 01:20 PM 6/24/2014, you wrote:


Hi everyone,


I didn't made any PCB's last month during the exams (no time :S ) and I started again with milling a new PCB today but I my layout 'moves' every pass.


Do I need to search for the cause in the new EAGLE PCB, PCB-GCode or my router?

I had no problems before my exams so I was a surprise for me


Cheers,

Dylan Van Assche




--



Re: PCB 'moves'

Dylan Van Assche
 

I ran a test with a simple circle and I found out that I get an oval... I think there's a problem on the Y-axis since the circle is somethings milled as a circle and sometimes as an oval.
So it isn't the software... I must be my CNC and that's something I don't understand since it worked last time I used it.

Cheers,
Dylan



2014-06-24 19:35 GMT+02:00 Art Eckstein art.eckstein@... [pcb-gcode] <pcb-gcode@...>:

 

The first place I would check would be any couplers on the lead screws.  I have not heard of anybody having problems like this on the software side of the equation.

Art
Country Bubba





At 01:20 PM 6/24/2014, you wrote:


Hi everyone,


I didn't made any PCB's last month during the exams (no time :S ) and I started again with milling a new PCB today but I my layout 'moves' every pass.


Do I need to search for the cause in the new EAGLE PCB, PCB-GCode or my router?

I had no problems before my exams so I was a surprise for me


Cheers,

Dylan Van Assche




Re: PCB 'moves'

Angel
 

Maybe the stepper motors are missing steps?

On Jun 24, 2014 1:43 PM, "Art Eckstein art.eckstein@... [pcb-gcode]" <pcb-gcode@...> wrote:
 

The first place I would check would be any couplers on the lead screws.  I have not heard of anybody having problems like this on the software side of the equation.

Art
Country Bubba



At 01:20 PM 6/24/2014, you wrote:


Hi everyone,


I didn't made any PCB's last month during the exams (no time :S ) and I started again with milling a new PCB today but I my layout 'moves' every pass.


Do I need to search for the cause in the new EAGLE PCB, PCB-GCode or my router?

I had no problems before my exams so I was a surprise for me


Cheers,

Dylan Van Assche

Re: PCB 'moves'

Art Eckstein
 

The first place I would check would be any couplers on the lead screws.  I have not heard of anybody having problems like this on the software side of the equation.

Art
Country Bubba



At 01:20 PM 6/24/2014, you wrote:


Hi everyone,


I didn't made any PCB's last month during the exams (no time :S ) and I started again with milling a new PCB today but I my layout 'moves' every pass.


Do I need to search for the cause in the new EAGLE PCB, PCB-GCode or my router?

I had no problems before my exams so I was a surprise for me


Cheers,

Dylan Van Assche

PCB 'moves'

Dylan Van Assche
 

Hi everyone,


I didn't made any PCB's last month during the exams (no time :S ) and I started again with milling a new PCB today but I my layout 'moves' every pass. 


Do I need to search for the cause in the new EAGLE PCB, PCB-GCode or my router?

I had no problems before my exams so I was a surprise for me :O


Cheers,

Dylan Van Assche

Re: Autoleveler on tb6560

daedelus1982
 

Maybe my probe setup guide will help: CNC Probe Guide - Autoleveller

 

In LinuxCNC, use the hal meter as described to safely check the probe is working.