Date   
Re: how do I get holes cut in board? #mill #pcbgcode #eagle

John Ferguson
 

Thanks much. great idea. i'll try it.

john

On 1/16/19 5:46 PM, Ken McNabb wrote:
John,

I experienced a similar problem in EAGLE 7.7 as well. From what I can find is that the milling layer does not recognise holes as routing paths.
Something I haven't tried yet is the make to hole with two 180 degree arcs. I suspect this will work from my experience with arcs on other boards.

Ken

Re: how do I get holes cut in board? #mill #pcbgcode #eagle

peterg1000
 

John,

Just tested the "arc theory" and can confirm that milling layers contain the necessary GCODE.

Of course due allowance will be needed to allow for tool diameter, and the GCODE will need to be edited to set correct cutting depths for multiple passes.  Personally I set this to 0.3mm when using a 3mm diameter tool and normally set the lowest cut to 0.1mm below the bottom surface.

Peter

Re: how do I get holes cut in board? #mill #pcbgcode #eagle

John Ferguson
 

Hi Peter,

Thank you for your note.  The hole in question is to pass power leads up through the board from a 9 volt battery to be mounted beneath.  so diameter isn't critical. I've been trying to reduce the amopunt of editing the g-code requires but one problem continues.

I like to use the etching bit to prick the pads .011 inch the better to center the drills later.  I set the prick depth to .011 and the drill depth to .075, but what happens is the pricks get run to .075.  So I have to edit them in the G-Code.

This seems buggy to me. 

best,

john

On 1/17/19 4:20 AM,  via Groups.Io wrote:
John,

Just tested the "arc theory" and can confirm that milling layers contain the necessary GCODE.

Of course due allowance will be needed to allow for tool diameter, and the GCODE will need to be edited to set correct cutting depths for multiple passes.  Personally I set this to 0.3mm when using a 3mm diameter tool and normally set the lowest cut to 0.1mm below the bottom surface.

Peter

Re: #pcbgcode - Huge problem with this good plugin for Eagle 9.2.2. #pcbgcode

abyset2105@...
 

Take a look at "pcb-gcode\docs\images" folder, you will se there is a missing picture.

Re: shorting traces - How I messed up & a question about spot-drill-holes #eagle #etch

klassen.jj@...
 

Hey John,

I had experienced your issue as well, and I cruised through the code and I managed to find out how to fix the error.. I adjusted the code as follows

The issue is a flag reset in spot drill. the first one comes out fine, but then the rest are drilled to fill drill depth.
 
In pcb-gcode.ulp you will find this sequence:

//

  if (SPOT_DRILL == YES) {
    if (m_first_spot_drill) {
      output_drill_first_hole(drill_x, drill_y, SPOT_DRILL_DEPTH);
     // m_first_spot_drill = NO;
    }
    else {
      output_drill_hole(drill_x, drill_y, SPOT_DRILL_DEPTH);
    }
  }

///
 
The underlined line is the culprit. it spot drills one time, then spot drill is set to NO, so it doesn't do it anymore. I got the correct behaviour by commenting out that line. All the drill files are to the correct level. It works as it should on my machine - running on the GRBL config.

Hope this helps!

Joel

Re: shorting traces - How I messed up & a question about spot-drill-holes #eagle #etch

John Ferguson
 

I cannot thank you enough for this.  I do a lot of boards and having to remember to fix the incorrect spot-drill depth was a real pain.

best regards,

john

On 1/31/19 6:27 PM, klassen.jj@... wrote:
Hey John,

I had experienced your issue as well, and I cruised through the code and I managed to find out how to fix the error.. I adjusted the code as follows

The issue is a flag reset in spot drill. the first one comes out fine, but then the rest are drilled to fill drill depth.
 
In pcb-gcode.ulp you will find this sequence:

//

  if (SPOT_DRILL == YES) {
    if (m_first_spot_drill) {
      output_drill_first_hole(drill_x, drill_y, SPOT_DRILL_DEPTH);
     // m_first_spot_drill = NO;
    }
    else {
      output_drill_hole(drill_x, drill_y, SPOT_DRILL_DEPTH);
    }
  }

///
 
The underlined line is the culprit. it spot drills one time, then spot drill is set to NO, so it doesn't do it anymore. I got the correct behaviour by commenting out that line. All the drill files are to the correct level. It works as it should on my machine - running on the GRBL config.

Hope this helps!

Joel

Re: shorting traces - How I messed up & a question about spot-drill-holes #eagle #etch

klassen.jj@...
 

No problem, I am normally not all that great at troubleshooting this sort of thing, but this worked out.
I found a program which searches for a text string across an entire directory and subfolders, so I just found the keyword I needed, then look at all the code around it in each file. It really helped me spot it.

Joel

Re: shorting traces - How I messed up & a question about spot-drill-holes #eagle #etch

peterg1000
 

Hi,
Not trying to pour cold water on your findings, but I've never had a problem with spot drilling!!  I did a check of my code in the area you modified and it appears to be exactly the same as the one that misbehaves - see below (cut and paste) :-

if (SPOT_DRILL == YES) {

if (m_first_spot_drill) {

output_drill_first_hole(drill_x, drill_y, SPOT_DRILL_DEPTH);

m_first_spot_drill = NO;

}

else {

output_drill_hole(drill_x, drill_y, SPOT_DRILL_DEPTH);

}

}

Something else must surely be going on elsewhere in the programme to change the SPOT_DRILL_DEPTH ?
To my inexperienced eye the original code seems to be entirely logical.

Peter

Re: shorting traces - How I messed up & a question about spot-drill-holes #eagle #etch

John Ferguson
 

This would mean that I've selected something in the pcbgcode options which does this or it is being forced by something in Eagle.  I'm going to look at one of the older eagles to see if it does it.


john

On 2/1/19 4:30 AM, peterg1000 via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi,
Not trying to pour cold water on your findings, but I've never had a problem with spot drilling!!  I did a check of my code in the area you modified and it appears to be exactly the same as the one that misbehaves - see below (cut and paste) :-

if (SPOT_DRILL == YES) {

if (m_first_spot_drill) {

output_drill_first_hole(drill_x, drill_y, SPOT_DRILL_DEPTH);

m_first_spot_drill = NO;

}

else {

output_drill_hole(drill_x, drill_y, SPOT_DRILL_DEPTH);

}

}

Something else must surely be going on elsewhere in the programme to change the SPOT_DRILL_DEPTH ?
To my inexperienced eye the original code seems to be entirely logical.

Peter

Re: shorting traces - How I messed up & a question about spot-drill-holes #eagle #etch

peterg1000
 

I've used most Eagle revisions from 7.7 to 9.2 with equal success w.r.t .pcbgcode if that's any help to you.

Peter

Re: shorting traces - How I messed up & a question about spot-drill-holes #eagle #etch

John Ferguson
 

just to be sure. You are using the spot drill mode to prick each hole at say .011 and subsequently drilling them out at .07 +/- ??

I wonder if problem might be how the pads are coded in my Eagle files>

strange..

john

On 2/1/19 10:08 AM, peterg1000 via Groups.Io wrote:
I've used most Eagle revisions from 7.7 to 9.2 with equal success w.r.t .pcbgcode if that's any help to you.

Peter

Re: shorting traces - How I messed up & a question about spot-drill-holes #eagle #etch

peterg1000
 

All the spot drills are done with the same tool as is used for the track milling - I've used both 0.1 and 0.2mm  tools for this.   The drill file is completely separate and calls for drills as required by the component definitions in Eagle. 

Spot drill code is part of the main "etching" GCODE file - this is run as received from pcgcode, no editing required whatsoever. The drill info is in a separate file and contains all the necessary spindle stops and starts to allow for tool changes and setting the Z axis zero using a touch probe.

Drill depth is set for about 1.7mm when using 1.5mm FR4 boards. I manually "adjust" this for larger drills (up to 3mm) to allow for the 120 degree drill point, but no other changes are made.

Peter

Re: shorting traces - How I messed up & a question about spot-drill-holes #eagle #etch

John Ferguson
 

Peter,

It's a mystery to me. that is exactly what I'm doing.  I'm using the "tries to e compatible g-code profile"

I etch first and the spot drill follows the etch as part of its code. . then I run the drill g-code, then the mill (cut-out).

I check spot-drill homes on first page of pcbgcode setup and (using imperial) set the depth to -.011

on second page of setup I set "drill depth" to -.075.

And then what I get is the spot drill holes all -.075.

????

john


On 2/1/19 4:13 PM, peterg1000 via Groups.Io wrote:
All the spot drills are done with the same tool as is used for the track milling - I've used both 0.1 and 0.2mm  tools for this.   The drill file is completely separate and calls for drills as required by the component definitions in Eagle. 

Spot drill code is part of the main "etching" GCODE file - this is run as received from pcgcode, no editing required whatsoever. The drill info is in a separate file and contains all the necessary spindle stops and starts to allow for tool changes and setting the Z axis zero using a touch probe.

Drill depth is set for about 1.7mm when using 1.5mm FR4 boards. I manually "adjust" this for larger drills (up to 3mm) to allow for the 120 degree drill point, but no other changes are made.

Peter

Re: shorting traces - How I messed up & a question about spot-drill-holes #eagle #etch

klassen.jj@...
 

Truth be told, I spot drilled alright with a previous version of pcbgcode SOMETIMES but sometimes things would go horribly wrong, so I deactivated spot drilling in the past. but I re-setup my CNC and updated to the latest version and I came across this issue.

So I was curious, so I looked through all the files for every instance of 'SPOT_DRILL_DEPTH" to see where all it is defined and how it is used.

Fig 1 is just my search params in AstroGrep which yielded 2 ULP files and several settings files



Fig 2 shows the usage in the pcb-gcode-setup.ulp file,




-line 160 converts the user entered SPOT_DRILL_DEPTH in to the correct units for the machine,
-line 349 writes SPOT_DRILL_DEPTH with a name to a document somewhere, I assume the settings file
-line 589 creates the entry field for the GUI of the setup

so the mix-up can't happen in this file, which makes sense, because the settings file says the correct SPOT_DRILL_DEPTH value when inspected, so it must occur during the pcb-gcode.ulp file

Fig 3 shows the usage of 'SPOT_DRILL_DEPTH' in pcb-gcode.ulp
  
and searching for all instances of 'depth' or 'drill' bring me no luck...
Really, I don't know why my hack worked... perhaps I just pretend I am doing the first  spot drill every time because there is no difference in the routine (except it works for me?) and skipping the 'not first spot drill' section of the code...
but yeah.. it doesn't make sense that it puts the wrong depth in. I have no idea where it comes from.
Why there is a special case for the first spot drill, I do not know.

Good luck, I am glad you have success!

Re: shorting traces - How I messed up & a question about spot-drill-holes #eagle #etch

John Ferguson
 

Joel, your fix worked fine for me.

john

Re: shorting traces - How I messed up & a question about spot-drill-holes #eagle #etch

peterg1000
 

Just for the record, I'm using pcb-gcode rev 3.6.2.4 with Mach3 for windows selected as the profile.  All this happens in Eagle 9.3.

If you guys are using a later revision ..................    who knows!!

Peter

removing trace isolation swarf #mill #development

John Ferguson
 

I suppose swarf isn't the best word, but I'm curious about how you guys get rid of the chips which lodge in cuts.  I've been chasing them out with a needle, buy it's tedious.

I've got 90 psi air in the shop. Maybe I should try that.

I've got my production system running very smoothly. Design In Eagle, generate Gcode in pcpcode, sometimes include autocad millwork with gcode generated in SheetCAM, set up work piece, set height on cutter and go.

I make all of my boards from 2.5x4.0 workpieces. I made an aluminum fixture with a depression which fist these workpieces and has a lid which locates 4 holes one in each corner.  I drill the holes and then screw the board down to an HDPE fixture bolted to the table on my 6040 router.  The HDPE has 4 holes which take 6-32 nylon socket head caps screws.  I face off the surface the board sits on every 4th or 5th board to maintain level. 

I adjust the bit height by rolling a piece of .250 drill rod back and forth until the bit just clears and then dropping it one click on the servo so it doesn't quite clear.  I have vertical "home" set at Z=1.000 on the machine so I have to raise the spindle .750 before I start.  I suppose I could lower the home to .250 and eliminate the "raise" but having it at one inch gives me enough time to catch some kinds of screw-ups.

I've been delighted with this bit. I buy them from Precise Bits and they seem to last pretty well. 

EM3E8-0100-15V 0.0100in. (0.254mm) tip dia., 3-flute 15° tapered stub trace-isolation bit, 0.020 in. DOC, 1.42 in. (36mm) OAL 2 $16.95 $33.90

The size of the bur on the edge of cuts seems to increase as they wear out, but only downside of this seems to be more dressing of the finished board. I use 400 grit paper and final clean up with 800 crocus cloth.

I've been tinning the finished boards with MG Chemical 421.  I'm a bit mystified why I get better tinning if i rough up the board with 400 grit before plating it.  I wash board with acetone before tinning.

After I've soldered everything (all through hole - no smds yet), I go over the board with a loupe and remove any shorts with braid and clean out any suspicious cuts with a needle.

and they always work, at least the ones I haven't messed up the circuits on.

If you read this and see anything stupid, let me know.  Also I'm still like a better way to get rid of chips.

regards,

John ferguson  delray beach

Re: removing trace isolation swarf #mill #development

 

Probably starting a religious war, but I've actually had better luck with engraving bits that actual mills for traces. I change over to a real mill for milling operations.

What I really need to do is master gcode well enough to have a routine that re-zero's the height after changing a bit.

Bob


On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 4:26 PM John Ferguson via Groups.Io <jferg977=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

I suppose swarf isn't the best word, but I'm curious about how you guys get rid of the chips which lodge in cuts.  I've been chasing them out with a needle, buy it's tedious.

I've got 90 psi air in the shop. Maybe I should try that.

I've got my production system running very smoothly. Design In Eagle, generate Gcode in pcpcode, sometimes include autocad millwork with gcode generated in SheetCAM, set up work piece, set height on cutter and go.

I make all of my boards from 2.5x4.0 workpieces. I made an aluminum fixture with a depression which fist these workpieces and has a lid which locates 4 holes one in each corner.  I drill the holes and then screw the board down to an HDPE fixture bolted to the table on my 6040 router.  The HDPE has 4 holes which take 6-32 nylon socket head caps screws.  I face off the surface the board sits on every 4th or 5th board to maintain level. 

I adjust the bit height by rolling a piece of .250 drill rod back and forth until the bit just clears and then dropping it one click on the servo so it doesn't quite clear.  I have vertical "home" set at Z=1.000 on the machine so I have to raise the spindle .750 before I start.  I suppose I could lower the home to .250 and eliminate the "raise" but having it at one inch gives me enough time to catch some kinds of screw-ups.

I've been delighted with this bit. I buy them from Precise Bits and they seem to last pretty well. 

EM3E8-0100-15V 0.0100in. (0.254mm) tip dia., 3-flute 15° tapered stub trace-isolation bit, 0.020 in. DOC, 1.42 in. (36mm) OAL 2 $16.95 $33.90

The size of the bur on the edge of cuts seems to increase as they wear out, but only downside of this seems to be more dressing of the finished board. I use 400 grit paper and final clean up with 800 crocus cloth.

I've been tinning the finished boards with MG Chemical 421.  I'm a bit mystified why I get better tinning if i rough up the board with 400 grit before plating it.  I wash board with acetone before tinning.

After I've soldered everything (all through hole - no smds yet), I go over the board with a loupe and remove any shorts with braid and clean out any suspicious cuts with a needle.

and they always work, at least the ones I haven't messed up the circuits on.

If you read this and see anything stupid, let me know.  Also I'm still like a better way to get rid of chips.

regards,

John ferguson  delray beach

Re: removing trace isolation swarf #mill #development

Art Eckstein
 

Bob,
Been there and done that!  I use a probing function on a fixed tool pad that has +5V on it and a ground clip on the tool to make sure we have a good contact.  The touch pad is on G53 and I have managed to make tool offsets work in Turbocnc.  I believe others have done it in Mach and other controllers.  Another way to do it is to have a dedicated area on your blank pcb and use the electrical method to touch off and not worry about fixture offsets. 

In this case, use a probe function and call a G92 Z0 at the probe.  Raise the tool to clear everything and forge on.

Country


 At 3/21/2019 04:52 PM, bownes wrote:
Probably starting a religious war, but I've actually had better luck with engraving bits that actual mills for traces. I change over to a real mill for milling operations.

What I really need to do is master gcode well enough to have a routine that re-zero's the height after changing a bit.

Bob


On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 4:26 PM John Ferguson via Groups.Io <jferg977=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

I suppose swarf isn't the best word, but I'm curious about how you guys get rid of the chips which lodge in cuts.  I've been chasing them out with a needle, buy it's tedious.

I've got 90 psi air in the shop. Maybe I should try that.

I've got my production system running very smoothly. Design In Eagle, generate Gcode in pcpcode, sometimes include autocad millwork with gcode generated in SheetCAM, set up work piece, set height on cutter and go.

I make all of my boards from 2.5x4.0 workpieces. I made an aluminum fixture with a depression which fist these workpieces and has a lid which locates 4 holes one in each corner.  I drill the holes and then screw the board down to an HDPE fixture bolted to the table on my 6040 router.  The HDPE has 4 holes which take 6-32 nylon socket head caps screws.  I face off the surface the board sits on every 4th or 5th board to maintain level. 

I adjust the bit height by rolling a piece of .250 drill rod back and forth until the bit just clears and then dropping it one click on the servo so it doesn't quite clear.  I have vertical "home" set at Z=1.000 on the machine so I have to raise the spindle .750 before I start.  I suppose I could lower the home to .250 and eliminate the "raise" but having it at one inch gives me enough time to catch some kinds of screw-ups.

I've been delighted with this bit. I buy them from Precise Bits and they seem to last pretty well. 
EM3E8-0100-15V 0.0100in. (0.254mm) tip dia., 3-flute 15° tapered stub trace-isolation bit, 0.020 in. DOC, 1.42 in. (36mm) OAL 2 $16.95 $33.90

The size of the bur on the edge of cuts seems to increase as they wear out, but only downside of this seems to be more dressing of the finished board. I use 400 grit paper and final clean up with 800 crocus cloth.

I've been tinning the finished boards with MG Chemical 421.  I'm a bit mystified why I get better tinning if i rough up the board with 400 grit before plating it.  I wash board with acetone before tinning.

After I've soldered everything (all through hole - no smds yet), I go over the board with a loupe and remove any shorts with braid and clean out any suspicious cuts with a needle.

and they always work, at least the ones I haven't messed up the circuits on.

If you read this and see anything stupid, let me know.  Also I'm still like a better way to get rid of chips.

regards,

John ferguson  delray beach

Re: removing trace isolation swarf #mill #development

John Ferguson
 

I thought I was asking about swarf. 

On 3/21/19 5:30 PM, Art Eckstein wrote:
Bob,
Been there and done that!  I use a probing function on a fixed tool pad that has +5V on it and a ground clip on the tool to make sure we have a good contact.  The touch pad is on G53 and I have managed to make tool offsets work in Turbocnc.  I believe others have done it in Mach and other controllers.  Another way to do it is to have a dedicated area on your blank pcb and use the electrical method to touch off and not worry about fixture offsets. 

In this case, use a probe function and call a G92 Z0 at the probe.  Raise the tool to clear everything and forge on.

Country


 At 3/21/2019 04:52 PM, bownes wrote:
Probably starting a religious war, but I've actually had better luck with engraving bits that actual mills for traces. I change over to a real mill for milling operations.

What I really need to do is master gcode well enough to have a routine that re-zero's the height after changing a bit.

Bob


On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 4:26 PM John Ferguson via Groups.Io <jferg977=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

I suppose swarf isn't the best word, but I'm curious about how you guys get rid of the chips which lodge in cuts.  I've been chasing them out with a needle, buy it's tedious.

I've got 90 psi air in the shop. Maybe I should try that.

I've got my production system running very smoothly. Design In Eagle, generate Gcode in pcpcode, sometimes include autocad millwork with gcode generated in SheetCAM, set up work piece, set height on cutter and go.

I make all of my boards from 2.5x4.0 workpieces. I made an aluminum fixture with a depression which fist these workpieces and has a lid which locates 4 holes one in each corner.  I drill the holes and then screw the board down to an HDPE fixture bolted to the table on my 6040 router.  The HDPE has 4 holes which take 6-32 nylon socket head caps screws.  I face off the surface the board sits on every 4th or 5th board to maintain level. 

I adjust the bit height by rolling a piece of .250 drill rod back and forth until the bit just clears and then dropping it one click on the servo so it doesn't quite clear.  I have vertical "home" set at Z=1.000 on the machine so I have to raise the spindle .750 before I start.  I suppose I could lower the home to .250 and eliminate the "raise" but having it at one inch gives me enough time to catch some kinds of screw-ups.

I've been delighted with this bit. I buy them from Precise Bits and they seem to last pretty well. 
EM3E8-0100-15V 0.0100in. (0.254mm) tip dia., 3-flute 15° tapered stub trace-isolation bit, 0.020 in. DOC, 1.42 in. (36mm) OAL 2 $16.95 $33.90

The size of the bur on the edge of cuts seems to increase as they wear out, but only downside of this seems to be more dressing of the finished board. I use 400 grit paper and final clean up with 800 crocus cloth.

I've been tinning the finished boards with MG Chemical 421.  I'm a bit mystified why I get better tinning if i rough up the board with 400 grit before plating it.  I wash board with acetone before tinning.

After I've soldered everything (all through hole - no smds yet), I go over the board with a loupe and remove any shorts with braid and clean out any suspicious cuts with a needle.

and they always work, at least the ones I haven't messed up the circuits on.

If you read this and see anything stupid, let me know.  Also I'm still like a better way to get rid of chips.

regards,

John ferguson  delray beach