Topics

kayak sail rig


Jove Lachman-Curl
 

Hey coots, I'm looking for input on a simple sail rig for my kayak.
I paddle a couple of 15-16ft sea kayaks made by edyline, one is from mid 80s and one is mid 2000s.
I use a cedar greenland paddle I made most of the time.
I'd love to try sailing a kayak, so I'm looking for a simple design and a guide on how much area to shoot for.
I'd like to attach a platform and a leeboard too, then probably balance the rig and leeboard and use the paddle or corrections.
input? designs?
I don't want something that gets in the way of paddling, or requires an outrigger. So I imagine this being a fairly small rig, maybe attached with suction cups, or a backer plate under the deck and screws. I'd like it to stow easily without getting out of the kayak.
I'm open to it being lug, wing, crab clay etc. I'd like to get a little ponting ability out of it, not just a drag shoot, I go down wind pretty fast anyway.
  Input? Designs?  
Thanks.
I was out the other evening till dusk and here's a pretty picture of that.
image.png
-Jove


Bob Miller
 

Kayaksailor.com

Collapsible rig. Easily handled.

Bob M

On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 3:08 PM Jove Lachman-Curl <jovelc87@...> wrote:
Hey coots, I'm looking for input on a simple sail rig for my kayak.
I paddle a couple of 15-16ft sea kayaks made by edyline, one is from mid 80s and one is mid 2000s.
I use a cedar greenland paddle I made most of the time.
I'd love to try sailing a kayak, so I'm looking for a simple design and a guide on how much area to shoot for.
I'd like to attach a platform and a leeboard too, then probably balance the rig and leeboard and use the paddle or corrections.
input? designs?
I don't want something that gets in the way of paddling, or requires an outrigger. So I imagine this being a fairly small rig, maybe attached with suction cups, or a backer plate under the deck and screws. I'd like it to stow easily without getting out of the kayak.
I'm open to it being lug, wing, crab clay etc. I'd like to get a little ponting ability out of it, not just a drag shoot, I go down wind pretty fast anyway.
  Input? Designs?  
Thanks.
I was out the other evening till dusk and here's a pretty picture of that.
image.png
-Jove


Brandon
 

How about a golf umbrella. Classy and simple.

Brandon
Olympia, Wash.
1971 Columbia 43


Richard Green
 

Brandon, is that your Columbia I see for sale?

Rich

On Jun 10, 2020, at 8:52 AM, Brandon via groups.io <brandonfordus=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

How about a golf umbrella. Classy and simple.

Brandon
Olympia, Wash.
1971 Columbia 43



 

Where's the fun in buying a rig off the shelf? Not very Cootish. ;o) Those rigs look well-thought out, though their "Genoa" looks like a normal jib to me <g>, but $760-800!

https://www.kayaksailor.com/store/pc/viewcategories.asp?idcategory=2

On 6/9/2020 7:13 PM, Bob Miller wrote:
Kayaksailor.com
Collapsible rig. Easily handled.

--
John <@Jkohnen>
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Say it ain't so, Brandon!

http://hagothlog.blogspot.com/

On 6/10/2020 1:48 PM, Rich G wrote:
Brandon, is that your Columbia I see for sale?
--
John <@Jkohnen>
You can tell the size of a man by the size of the thing that makes him mad. (Adlai Stevenson)
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Richard Green
 

Well, I see the ad is no longer existant so mebbe not.

Rich

On Jun 10, 2020, at 7:58 PM, John Kohnen <@Jkohnen> wrote:

Say it ain't so, Brandon!

http://hagothlog.blogspot.com/

On 6/10/2020 1:48 PM, Rich G wrote:
Brandon, is that your Columbia I see for sale?
--
John <@Jkohnen>
You can tell the size of a man by the size of the thing that makes him mad. (Adlai Stevenson)


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Jove Lachman-Curl
 

Yes, not very cootish, and I was hoping to build it myself from scrap and a little sail cloth or that ripstop nylon they sell at Joanne’s in nice colors. But the attachment methods and the recommended sail area are helpful. After reading some good things about balanced lug rigs going to windward ok I’m leaning in that direction. Short spars, simple to build and a low center of effort.

On Jun 10, 2020, at 7:55 PM, John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:

Where's the fun in buying a rig off the shelf? Not very Cootish. ;o) Those rigs look well-thought out, though their "Genoa" looks like a normal jib to me <g>, but $760-800!

https://www.kayaksailor.com/store/pc/viewcategories.asp?idcategory=2


On 6/9/2020 7:13 PM, Bob Miller wrote:
Kayaksailor.com
Collapsible rig. Easily handled.


--
John <jkohnen@...>
Never lose a chance of saying a kind word. (William Makepeace Thackeray)


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Brandon
 

No. Not me. We are still happily living aboard Oceanus. The Columbia 43 that is for sale in Olympia is across the way in West Bay Marina. I've seen it from the outside and it looks to be in pretty good shape. Buy it for $20,000 and put another $60,000 into it and you would have a fine cruising boat. Columbia 43s rate pretty well under PHRF so you could race her as well. I wrote a review of the 43 in the May/June 2019 issue of Good Old Boar Magazine. She is a great sea boat, loves those big waves on the Oregon coast.

Brandon
SV Oceanus, 1971 Columbia 43
Olympia, Wash.


 

I like balanced lugsails, but for a kayak you oughta look at some of the rigs used by canoe sailors long ago, but reduced in size. I'm thinking particularly about the batwing. It uses a short mast that you can probably leave up without hindering your paddling. When you drop the sail it all comes down aft of the mast, where you can more easily deal with it. Looks cool, too. <g> I don't mean what some modern canoe sailors call a "batwing", like Balogh's, but the original, like this:

http://www.thecheappages.com/canoe/rushton_bat/_Rushton_Bat_Sails.html

More interesting stuff from COD:

http://freepages.rootsweb.com/%7Efassitt/genealogy/canoe_mirror/canoe_sailing.html

I'd avoid any loose-footed (boomless) sail on a kayak, because it'd be prone to a "death roll" going downwind in a strong wind.

Did you ever finish the skin on frame kayak, Jove?

On 6/10/2020 11:54 PM, Jove wrote:
Yes, not very cootish, and I was hoping to build it myself from scrap and a little sail cloth or that ripstop nylon they sell at Joanne’s in nice colors. But the attachment methods and the recommended sail area are helpful. After reading some good things about balanced lug rigs going to windward ok I’m leaning in that direction. Short spars, simple to build and a low center of effort.
https://www.clcboats.com/life-of-boats-blog/lug-nuts-lug-rigs.html
--
John <@Jkohnen>
Correlation does not imply causation; except, of course, to your cat. (Craig O'Donnell)
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Brandon
 

The seller (owner?) isn't very diligent in renewing his Craig's List adds; they come and go.

Brandon 


 

Nylon is too stretchy for an upwind sail. Polytarp works good. Polysail Dave has done a lot of experimentation with them and has got them figured out. Search for "polytarp sail", "Polysail" and "Dave Grey" in the Duckworks Magazine archive:

https://duckworksmagazine.com/

http://polysail.com/

More from COD:

http://thecheappages.com/oddsails.html

Jim Michalak's perennial article on "sail area math" a good one, and his method of balancing the rig should work fine for a kayak:

http://www.jimsboats.com/1jan20.htm

Tyvek house wrap has also been used for sails. The main problem for Coots, and other small boat sailors, is that they sell it in Big rolls at Jerry's. You might be able to bum enough for several kayak sails from a building site...

http://boat-links.com/Tyvek/

On 6/10/2020 11:54 PM, Jove wrote:
Yes, not very cootish, and I was hoping to build it myself from scrap and a little sail cloth or that ripstop nylon they sell at Joanne’s in nice colors.
...
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John <@Jkohnen>
People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them. (Eric Hoffer)
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Gerard Mittelstaedt
 

Had a good look at the Bat wing, Rushton sail  The upper "yard" sits close to the mast
making the sail rig something like a Gunter rig.  This is good in that it keeps the spars
including the mast low.
- Gerard Mittelstaedt


On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 3:29 PM John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:
Nylon is too stretchy for an upwind sail. Polytarp works good. Polysail
Dave has done a lot of experimentation with them and has got them
figured out. Search for "polytarp sail", "Polysail" and "Dave Grey" in
the Duckworks Magazine archive:

https://duckworksmagazine.com/

http://polysail.com/

More from COD:

http://thecheappages.com/oddsails.html

Jim Michalak's perennial article on "sail area math" a good one, and his
method of balancing the rig should work fine for a kayak:

http://www.jimsboats.com/1jan20.htm

Tyvek house wrap has also been used for sails. The main problem for
Coots, and other small boat sailors, is that they sell it in Big rolls
at Jerry's. You might be able to bum enough for several kayak sails from
a building site...

http://boat-links.com/Tyvek/

On 6/10/2020 11:54 PM, Jove wrote:
> Yes, not very cootish, and I was hoping to build it myself from scrap
> and a little sail cloth or that ripstop nylon they sell at Joanne’s in
> nice colors.
 > ...

--
John <jkohnen@...>
People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that
kicks them. (Eric Hoffer)


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--
Gerard Mittelstaedt  -- mittel48@...
McAllen, Texas
USA