Topics

Electric Love


 

Had a nice sail yesterday evening. While out there I was thinking that Tuffy is the easiest sailboat to get out sailing in that I've had at Fern Ridge. Is it the rig? No. There's a jackleg jib cover to deal with when I come back, and a bit too small mainsail cover with a zipper that can be hard to get started in the dark. Handiness getting unmoored and moored again? No. The cleats on the dock don't match up with the cleats on Tuffy adding some extra effort to untying and tying up again.

No, what makes Tuffy so easy to get sailing and then back in her slip is the electric motor! :o) No yanking on a starter cord to get the outboard running. No Noise. Reverse at the touch of a fingertip (I couldn't turn Pearl's outboard around for reverse without hitting the rudder). And it's quiet. When the wind dies in the evening, or, as happened last night, starts blowing right on the nose for the last bit on the way home, I can fire up the electric motor and have a nice peaceful trip back to the slip. Almost as nice as sailing. :o) Maybe even a little better, in a way, because I don't need to pay attention to the sails and can watch the sky and birds and water... On Monday, the full moon was making the fish active and big fish were rising all around me as I neared E Dock. Bass? Carp? Purty neat. :o)

So, I sure do love electric boating. :o)

I don't love lugging the batteries up the ramp and back to the car to take home to charge. <sigh> Gotta get some sort of solar charging system before next year. BTW, I've found that running at about 4-5 amps draw (24 volt) gets Tuffy along just fine for my purposes. Probably about the same speed I prefer when using the Honda on my other boats, with the motor just putting along slowly, not making an unpleasant noise.

--
John <@Jkohnen>
People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. (Isaac Asimov)


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Electri-Cal
 

I agree completely with you, John.  Just a touch under hull speed does make life easy, as i'm finding out over time.  Last time at Fern Ridge was good, one battery pack got me close to 3 hours, as a solo weight cruise.  I was stiff getting out, but thats ok for me.  Two biMart 27's does the job, the back up pack is good insurance.  Bi Mart does have access to deep cycle 29 series, I may do that, but it adds 60 pounds  Might make an extra hour at best , but do I need that ??   I'm running at a few less amps, due to less wetted surface, no keel, but as you mentioned, who cares, it's the trip -- without equipment worries -- that does the job.  Recharging is easy, but needs to remember which pack was in use, and charge each one seperately to avoid a charging conflict.  Thinking now about a cover for the behind the seats area, basic arched to match wood cover is roughed our, might do white canvas over that, to make gunnell and transom snap fittings easier than several solid clamps of some kind.  

Just yesterday I finished wiring the 48 volt to 24 V converter.  Now the ev bicycle pack can be the third backup pack.  The new bigger prop for MKota motors awaits testing, new sleeve fits like a charm.  Motor is at Myles place on the coast, so that has to wait a bit.  I have another converter to make the bike pack power a MKota directly also, so ready to go there too, after I get a motor to run all this stuff.  I forger how much run time the bike pack has on paper, but nees a good in water testing. It seems that the pack weighs about half a wet battery, while adding more run time, due to the lower the pack can be drained by a good deal.  Time will tell how this works out, keep fingers crossed.

Lots of stuff to make things better before winter returns ---  Cal


Electri-Cal
 

Hot foot it over to a sporting gooda store, luggage store or, some even used gear places.  A folding suitcase crooling carrier works fine.  some golf carts fold but not as well.  I have a rolling insulated beer cooler on wheels, that could take a battery, plus other gear.  Think I got one or two at st Vinnies years ago.  In fact a rolling ice chest would do a lot of gear hauling for the least money, just tape the inside size to fit right.. My folding suitcase carrier needs a wood box to make work, but is the sturdiest , and folds lightest as dock.cart.      Cheaper than a chiropracters visit or two,.

Later,   Cal.  


 

Did you install two of the 20 amp convertors in parallel, like we talked about on the phone? Is that OK, Bob L?

I wish you knew what the A/H rating of the lithium battery from the bike,,,

On 8/10/2020 8:40 AM, Electri-Cal wrote:
... Just yesterday I finished wiring the 48 volt to 24 V converter.  Now the ev bicycle pack can be the third backup pack.
...
I have another converter to make the bike pack power a MKota directly also, so ready to go there too, after I get a motor to run all this stuff.  I forger how much run time the bike pack has on paper, but nees a good in water testing. It seems that the pack weighs about half a wet battery, while adding more run time, due to the lower the pack can be drained by a good deal.  Time will tell how this works out, keep fingers crossed.
...
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John <@Jkohnen>
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. (George Carlin)
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They have dock carts available at Richardson with big wheels that roll over the cleats on the dock gangways easily. With the water so low it's a slog pulling the cart loaded with to group 24 batteries up the gangway, and I worry about a disaster it the cart got away from me going down! <g>

For my usual use, I think I could keep the batteries up with a solar charger, and two group 24s will give me enough range the rare occasion when the wind dies completely when I'm far from my slip, and they'll be less likely to damage my back than group 27s when I _do_ need to get them home to recharge. I'll have to get in touch with Joe Grez at Electric Paddle for his advice on a solar charging system. During the Salish 100 last year I overheard him discussing the best sort of panels to use, but I forgot most of what he said. <g> Joe did the whole Salish 100 using only solar power, with one of his standard Electric Paddle batteries as a buffer.

https://flic.kr/p/2gGQwZm

Last night I did a short run in Tuffy at full "throttle" while watching the ammeter. After initially rising to a bit over 50 amps while accelerating, from a 4 amp rate, the current draw settled down at 49 amps. I didn't have a GPS along, but I backed off after s short run because I was afraid I'd get a bloody nose from the speed. ;o) It did seem like Tuffy was going along at a good clip.

Alas, Minn Kota doesn't give you any useful information on their Web page anymore, or at least the last time I looked. <sigh> The _rough_ rule of thumb about their trolling motor ratings used to be about one amp maximum current per pound of rated thrust, or a half amp per pound for the 24 volt motors. Though my 50 lb. electronic controlled 12 volt motor is only rated at 42 amps. Go figure... Anyway, by that rule of thumb, the 80 lb. motor bolted to Tuffy's keel should only draw 40 amps max. If it is indeed an 80 lb. motor... Did they make larger 24 volt motors? Tuffy has an odd propeller with its tips folded, making little end plates. She didn't have it in 2017. Perhaps it's more aggressive than the stock Minn Kota prop. If the current prop is indeed overloading the motor, maybe she'd do better with the stock prop... At any rate, I won't ever be running the motor at full speed for more than a few moments, if I get in a "situation" while maneuvering.

I think I'll do some test runs with a fresh charge in the batteries, and a GPS, just before I pull Tuffy out, so I can haul the batteries home in the boat on her trailer rather than hauling them up from the dock again. ;o)

On 8/11/2020 6:46 AM, Electri-Cal wrote:
Hot foot it over to a sporting gooda store, luggage store or, some even used gear places.  A folding suitcase crooling carrier works fine.
...
--
John <@Jkohnen>
In politics, absurdity is not a handicap. (Napoleon Bonaparte)
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John Weiss
 

If price isn't a deterrent, and weight is the issue, look at these LiFePo4 batteries:

https://www.ohmmu.com/group31

On 08/11/20 15:19, John Kohnen wrote:
They have dock carts available at Richardson with big wheels that roll over the cleats on the dock gangways easily. With the water so low it's a slog pulling the cart loaded with to group 24 batteries up the gangway, and I worry about a disaster it the cart got away from me going down! <g>
For my usual use, I think I could keep the batteries up with a solar charger, and two group 24s will give me enough range the rare occasion when the wind dies completely when I'm far from my slip, and they'll be less likely to damage my back than group 27s when I _do_ need to get them home to recharge. I'll have to get in touch with Joe Grez at Electric Paddle for his advice on a solar charging system. During the Salish 100 last year I overheard him discussing the best sort of panels to use, but I forgot most of what he said. <g> Joe did the whole Salish 100 using only solar power, with one of his standard Electric Paddle batteries as a buffer.
https://flic.kr/p/2gGQwZm
Last night I did a short run in Tuffy at full "throttle" while watching the ammeter. After initially rising to a bit over 50 amps while accelerating, from a 4 amp rate, the current draw settled down at 49 amps. I didn't have a GPS along, but I backed off after s short run because I was afraid I'd get a bloody nose from the speed. ;o) It did seem like Tuffy was going along at a good clip.
Alas, Minn Kota doesn't give you any useful information on their Web page anymore, or at least the last time I looked. <sigh> The _rough_ rule of thumb about their trolling motor ratings used to be about one amp maximum current per pound of rated thrust, or a half amp per pound for the 24 volt motors. Though my 50 lb. electronic controlled 12 volt motor is only rated at 42 amps. Go figure... Anyway, by that rule of thumb, the 80 lb. motor bolted to Tuffy's keel should only draw 40 amps max. If it is indeed an 80 lb. motor... Did they make larger 24 volt motors? Tuffy has an odd propeller with its tips folded, making little end plates. She didn't have it in 2017. Perhaps it's more aggressive than the stock Minn Kota prop. If the current prop is indeed overloading the motor, maybe she'd do better with the stock prop... At any rate, I won't ever be running the motor at full speed for more than a few moments, if I get in a "situation" while maneuvering.
I think I'll do some test runs with a fresh charge in the batteries, and a GPS, just before I pull Tuffy out, so I can haul the batteries home in the boat on her trailer rather than hauling them up from the dock again. ;o)
On 8/11/2020 6:46 AM, Electri-Cal wrote:
Hot foot it over to a sporting gooda store, luggage store or, some even used gear places.  A folding suitcase crooling carrier works fine.
> ...


 

If price isn't an issue... $949 each, and I'd need two. <sigh> And a Battery Management System (BMS) to care for them. 150 A/H! :o) My flooded lead/acid batteries only have about 40 A/H practical capacity.

The replacement battery they sell for Prii may be something to look at.
40 A/H (and the rate at a more aggressive discharge than the usual
lead/acid rating) and a built in BMS, for $349 each.

On 8/11/2020 3:34 PM, John Weiss wrote:
If price isn't a deterrent, and weight is the issue, look at these LiFePo4 batteries:
https://www.ohmmu.com/group31
--
John <@Jkohnen>
When I was a boy I was told that anybody could become President; I'm beginning to believe it. (Clarence Darrow)


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John Weiss
 

The Prius battery may be a bargain. IIRC, I had to pay the Toyota dealer $425 for a replacement AGM!

On 08/11/20 16:49, John Kohnen wrote:
If price isn't an issue... $949 each, and I'd need two. <sigh> And a Battery Management System (BMS) to care for them. 150 A/H! :o) My flooded lead/acid batteries only have about 40 A/H practical capacity.
The replacement battery they sell for Prii may be something to look at.
>40 A/H (and the rate at a more aggressive discharge than the usual
lead/acid rating) and a built in BMS, for $349 each.
On 8/11/2020 3:34 PM, John Weiss wrote:
If price isn't a deterrent, and weight is the issue, look at these LiFePo4 batteries:

https://www.ohmmu.com/group31


 

So you're a fellow Prius driver, John! :o)

Toyota's got everybody convinced that the Prius computer is real picky about what sort of 12 volt battery it likes. <sigh> To keep us from putting just _any_ battery in our Prii, batteries in American cars have _Japanese_ standard terminals, and Japanese cars have _American_ standard terminals! But $450 to replace your Prius battery was highway robbery! My Prius's (2006) battery died a while back, and I got a fancy-dan Optima battery, better than the stock Toyota battery, for $237.99 through Amazon. It's a bit of a hassle to get to the Prius battery, but not enough so to justify what your dealer charged you. <sigh>

https://smile.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B006VFEJJQ/themotherofal-20

On 8/11/2020 9:17 PM, John Weiss wrote:
The Prius battery may be a bargain.  IIRC, I had to pay the Toyota dealer $425 for a replacement AGM!
The replacement battery they sell for Prii may be something to look at.  >40 A/H (and the rate at a more aggressive discharge than the usual lead/acid rating) and a built in BMS, for $349 each.
--
John <@Jkohnen>
"Necessity is the mother of invention" is a silly proverb. "Necessity is the mother of futile dodges" is much nearer the truth. (Alfred North Whitehead)
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John Weiss
 

Used to be. Went all the way, and now have a Tesla Model 3.

On 08/12/20 13:15, John Kohnen wrote:
So you're a fellow Prius driver, John! :o)
Toyota's got everybody convinced that the Prius computer is real picky about what sort of 12 volt battery it likes. <sigh> To keep us from putting just _any_ battery in our Prii, batteries in American cars have _Japanese_ standard terminals, and Japanese cars have _American_ standard terminals! But $450 to replace your Prius battery was highway robbery! My Prius's (2006) battery died a while back, and I got a fancy-dan Optima battery, better than the stock Toyota battery, for $237.99 through Amazon. It's a bit of a hassle to get to the Prius battery, but not enough so to justify what your dealer charged you. <sigh>
https://smile.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B006VFEJJQ/themotherofal-20
On 8/11/2020 9:17 PM, John Weiss wrote:
The Prius battery may be a bargain.  IIRC, I had to pay the Toyota dealer $425 for a replacement AGM!
The replacement battery they sell for Prii may be something to look at.  >40 A/H (and the rate at a more aggressive discharge than the usual lead/acid rating) and a built in BMS, for $349 each.


Richard Green
 

Only two days ago had the hybrid battery replaced in my daughter’s ’05 prius she inherited from her grandfather a few months ago. It had few miles on it as it had sat for years with minimal usage, no charging save the odd time out. The batteries didn’t like that and eventually and apparently gave up the ghost. 2300 bucks installed at the Toyota dealer. Her step bro said he could replace bad cells for about 40 bucks a cell but in asking around and in my own experience I felt that wasn’t a good idea. Seen boat bank batteries in which a new battery interacted badly with old batteries resulting in premature failures.

Had the twelve volt replaced around a year ago during probate and I’m thinking it was only in the 200 and change range at the local dealer. Don’t quote me on that quote for the 12v.

Rich

On Aug 12, 2020, at 1:15 PM, John Kohnen <@Jkohnen> wrote:

So you're a fellow Prius driver, John! :o)

Toyota's got everybody convinced that the Prius computer is real picky about what sort of 12 volt battery it likes. <sigh> To keep us from putting just _any_ battery in our Prii, batteries in American cars have _Japanese_ standard terminals, and Japanese cars have _American_ standard terminals! But $450 to replace your Prius battery was highway robbery! My Prius's (2006) battery died a while back, and I got a fancy-dan Optima battery, better than the stock Toyota battery, for $237.99 through Amazon. It's a bit of a hassle to get to the Prius battery, but not enough so to justify what your dealer charged you. <sigh>

https://smile.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B006VFEJJQ/themotherofal-20


On 8/11/2020 9:17 PM, John Weiss wrote:
The Prius battery may be a bargain. IIRC, I had to pay the Toyota dealer $425 for a replacement AGM!
The replacement battery they sell for Prii may be something to look at. >40 A/H (and the rate at a more aggressive discharge than the usual lead/acid rating) and a built in BMS, for $349 each.
--
John <@Jkohnen>
"Necessity is the mother of invention" is a silly proverb. "Necessity is the mother of futile dodges" is much nearer the truth. (Alfred North Whitehead)


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I'll bet that Tesla also uses some really $pecial 12-volt battery. <g> Congratulations on your new ride, John.

On 8/12/2020 2:12 PM, John Weiss wrote:
Used to be.  Went all the way, and now have a Tesla Model 3.
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John Weiss
 

Thankfully, it's covered under the 4-year warranty. After that, I'll buy an Ohmmu or whatever is the current rage (pun intended) at that time.

On 08/13/20 13:15, John Kohnen wrote:
I'll bet that Tesla also uses some really $pecial 12-volt battery. <g> Congratulations on your new ride, John.
On 8/12/2020 2:12 PM, John Weiss wrote:
Used to be.  Went all the way, and now have a Tesla Model 3.


Electri-Cal
 

Yes John, and other Coots who have missed some posts. 

The converters wired up just fine from what  it looks like on the bench.  I'd ike to know the amps rating on that pack is too, but capacity!!  that never seems to be an exact science once the actual motor, water condition, and relevant wid is altering run times.  I need to figure the plug to add that battery to the motors with a plug next.  I can't just use the charge input circuit , because there is always another or both on line, the old different size batt. problem.  So, I think I will need to be looking for a 3 way switch as well, and see what that takes.  I have two -- two pack switches here, probably list those on e bay, soon as I get around to doing that.  If you need one let me know.

Charlie and I cruised Dexter theother day, tried Lookout first but again too late to have usable ramps, with water drop 2--3 ft. per day going out.  A week ago I could have done that safely, but now no dock to stand on that is close to the correct launch lane.  Moved to Dexter and it was a great day.  Looks like I get two hours or close to that with two coots, thats on one pack.  One pack in reserve, as the rule.  I get close to an extra hour as a solo ride, depends on the lake, so one more pack could be welcome when I'm solo for a longer day, maybe !!!   Could do more, but at way slow voltage settings, we used 20 amps as a goot clip, and the depth finder quits when the voltage drops with a good sound to make it noticable,

Speaking of that, how about taking some runs (boat of choice)  at Fern Ridge next week, I have Monday as open at the moment.  Maybe a picnic lunch cruise, some gotta doos sort of hem me in next week, bur we haven't visited in a while.  Charlie and I came up with a formula, for a two person ride.  Water time is divided into bladder capacity, or sun power, when you gotta go, you just go pottie or usually home.  Solo runs have more options, and so need the extra battery time. 

Later,   Cal 




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