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Borden's Glue

 

Oops! Attached the wrong version of that photo. This one takes up a lot less memory...

On 1/10/2020 3:01 PM, John Kohnen wrote:
I was wondering if seeing how well the Petey Dink CM worked after it was built was what made you decide to use Katydidn't/Petey Dink CM as the basis for a SOF dinghy. I was sure impressed by how ell the Musson's lapstrake Katydidn't worked when saw it in action. Lots of freeboard with two adults aboard (see attachment), might even hold two Coots! <g>
...
--
John <@Jkohnen>
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. (Anne Lamott)

Randy Torgerson
 

John,

I have done some back of napkin calculations for building Katydidn’t in strip plank, cold molded and skin-on-frame.  Strip plank would be easiest to build and the cheapest as I have everything I need to build one except 4oz glass; I have 6, 10 and 17 ounce glass in abundance; I have plenty of WRC to make strips and I know some boatbuilders who have left over strips.  10 years ago I gave away enough strips to build an 18 foot canoe so I think Karma will smile upon me. The cold molded would be second most difficult and the second most expensive as I need to get the glass and flitches. The skin-on-frame would be the most expensive and most difficult as I have not done a skin-on-frame boat build before and I have experience building strip and cold molded boats.  


Weight wise the skin-on-frame would be the lightest at 25 to 30lbs, the strip plake at 30 to 40lbs and the cold molded the heaviest at 40 to 50lbs.


I have been re-reading John Guzzwell, Ian Nicholson and Hub Miller’s boatbuilding books and I think the forms for the cold molded boat would not be that much more difficult than the other construction methods.


Maybe I will have to build all three but I think that skin-on-frame would be first.  I just need to get the canoe out of the garage and find green or air dried Oak for the frames. 


Randy

Andrew Linn
 

The biggest expense of Skin-on-Frame is getting sticks long enough. Knots are bad, but if you take the time to fine clear sections of wood (or get good at scarfing,) you'll be fine. SoF is the cheapest, fastest way to build a light, beautiful, boat.

I'll be happy to help in any way I can.

On 1/11/2020 7:14 AM, Randy Torgerson wrote:
John,

I have done some back of napkin calculations for building Katydidn’t in strip plank, cold molded and skin-on-frame.  Strip plank would be easiest to build and the cheapest as I have everything I need to build one except 4oz glass; I have 6, 10 and 17 ounce glass in abundance; I have plenty of WRC to make strips and I know some boatbuilders who have left over strips.  10 years ago I gave away enough strips to build an 18 foot canoe so I think Karma will smile upon me. The cold molded would be second most difficult and the second most expensive as I need to get the glass and flitches. The skin-on-frame would be the most expensive and most difficult as I have not done a skin-on-frame boat build before and I have experience building strip and cold molded boats.


Weight wise the skin-on-frame would be the lightest at 25 to 30lbs, the strip plake at 30 to 40lbs and the cold molded the heaviest at 40 to 50lbs.


I have been re-reading John Guzzwell, Ian Nicholson and Hub Miller’s boatbuilding books and I think the forms for the cold molded boat would not be that much more difficult than the other construction methods.


Maybe I will have to build all three but I think that skin-on-frame would be first.  I just need to get the canoe out of the garage and find green or air dried Oak for the frames.


Randy

,_

 

Katydidn't is only 6 1/2 ft. long. Makes getting long enough stringers a lot easier. <g>

The Retired Old Geezers might not agree with Andrew! ;o) But I can attest that less finicky and high-tech SOF techniques than Geodesic Airolite are indeed a cheap, quick, fun, and end even relaxing way to build a boat. So easy that even Andrew can do it. ;o)

On 1/11/2020 7:21 AM, Andrew wrote:
The biggest expense of Skin-on-Frame is getting sticks long enough. Knots are bad, but if you take the time to fine clear sections of wood (or get good at scarfing,) you'll be fine. SoF is the cheapest, fastest way to build a light, beautiful, boat.
I'll be happy to help in any way I can.
--
John <@Jkohnen>
He used statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts; for support rather than illumination. (Andrew Lang)

 

We know a good place to get bending oak:

https://flic.kr/s/aHskQzSLjv

I'll bet a Geodesic Airolite Katydidn't would come in close to 20 lb....

On 1/11/2020 7:14 AM, Randy T wrote:
...
Weight wise the skin-on-frame would be the lightest at 25 to 30lbs, the strip plake at 30 to 40lbs and the cold molded the heaviest at 40 to 50lbs.
...
Maybe I will have to build all three but I think that skin-on-frame would be first.  I just need to get the canoe out of the garage and find green or air dried Oak for the frames.
--
John <@Jkohnen>
It is better to have loafed and lost than never to have loafed at all. (James Thurber)

Randy Torgerson
 

John,

Looks like a good place for all kinds of wood.  I have always wanted to build some furniture out of Madrone.

I watched a couple of Geodesic Airolite Boats video's on Youtube; I found them interesting but I like the modern "traditional" style of skin-on-frame boats.  Robert Morris in Building Skin-On-Frame Boats uses air dried Alaskan Yellow Cedar for the steam bent ribs so I am going to try to do the same.  I have a 14 inch wide board of Port Orford Cedar that has been air dried that I might use for the transoms.

Randy

Randy Torgerson
 

 Andrew,

Like John said a SOF Katydidn't doesn't need anything over 8 feet and I have all the wood I will need in my wood shed.  If I need long clear boards quickly I agree that they are expensive, if I have time there are several lumber yards in Tacoma that have CVG Doug Fir and clear Alaska Yellow Cedar that is priced better than what I can get in Portland.  Over the next few months I expect to see lumber cut from salvaged trees that come down in the storms.  Urban lumber is hit or miss but sometime you can get a deal.

As for scarfing, I have a really ugly table saw jig that works wonderfully; if I had known how well it would work, I would have made it look better. 

I have mostly convinced myself to do the SOF Kattydidn't once I get the canoe out of the garage.  I won't have the Tolman ready for any of the boat shows but maybe  I will have a SOF pram to show.

Randy

 

Can you show us your scarfing jig, Randy? We don't care if it's ugly. <g> The concept is easy to understand, but I'd like to see how you executed it.

I look forward to seeing your SOF Katydidn't, and maybe even giving it a try. Once you get started I'll bet it won't take you long to build it.

On 1/12/2020 9:18 PM, Randy T wrote:
 Andrew,
Like John said a SOF Katydidn't doesn't need anything over 8 feet and I have all the wood I will need in my wood shed. ...
As for scarfing, I have a really ugly table saw jig that works wonderfully; if I had known how well it would work, I would have made it look better.
I have mostly convinced myself to do the SOF Kattydidn't once I get the canoe out of the garage.  I won't have the Tolman ready for any of the boat shows but maybe  I will have a SOF pram to show.
--
John <@Jkohnen>
When we all think alike, we don't need to think much at all. (Walt Whitman)

Randy Torgerson
 

John,
 
Ok, you asked for it. 
 
 
I clamp two pieces of wood to the jig; cutting them at the same time reduces errors from slop since I am only using one slot to guide the jig.   When I make the cut I am standing to the left of the work and pushing the jig to the right (very important for a good cut to have consistent pressure).  My left hand is on the knob and the right is holding the jib behind the second clamp.  My hands are never in line with the saw blade.


I marked the danger area to remind me where the saw blade will be.  


A screw on the end of the guide strip stops the jig from going too far.  For long strips I have rollers mounted on saw horses to support the far ends of the strips.  The scarfing jig was originally made for my Delta table saw and I had to modify ti for my new saw.  I have used this jig to make the strips for a birdsmouth mast, the cedar strips and the gunwales on my strip canoe (still in progress after more than ten years and many moves) and a few other minor projects.

For the SOF Katydidn't, I was planning to ask you and Mark N to join me on a jaunt at Toledo to see how well she can carry three coots. ;)

Randy

Randy Torgerson
 

The first photo on my previous post did not come across correctly, here it is again.

Randy

 

Thanks, Randy. That's more like it. Yeah, cutting both pieces at the same time cancels out any little errors in alignment or blade angle. I've been thinking about a jig (or would it be a fixture? I never can keep that straight) for using a handheld circular saw, so I don't need to clean such a wide behind the tablesaw. <g> I made a jig/fixture for a power hand plane last time, for the same reason, but I now think the saw would work better.

On 1/13/2020 9:05 PM, Randy T wrote:
The first photo on my previous post did not come across correctly, here it is again.
--
John <@Jkohnen>
The unrestricted competition so commonly advocated does not leave us the survival of the fittest. The unscrupulous succeed best in accumulating wealth. (Rutherford B. Hayes)

Randy Torgerson
 

John,

I was thinking that if I had to scarf some 2x4's or 2x6's I would lay them out on blocks so I could clamp them from the bottom and cut the scarf with a track saw.  I would finish up the cut with an hand saw and hand plane.  I have not had the need yet but maybe in the future.

Randy

Richard Green
 

Heavy sigh, I remember right outa high school pulling on the dry chain at a local sawmill.  We 8’ and 10’  piled up at the end of the chain, we pulled two foot increments of 2 by 4’s from 12’s up to 24’ of nice looking boards.  

Rich 

On Jan 16, 2020, at 8:24 PM, Randy Torgerson <coots@...> wrote:

John,

I was thinking that if I had to scarf some 2x4's or 2x6's I would lay them out on blocks so I could clamp them from the bottom and cut the scarf with a track saw.  I would finish up the cut with an hand saw and hand plane.  I have not had the need yet but maybe in the future.

Randy