Yaquina River KAP files


Mark Neuhaus
 

Hi folks,

I just uploaded, to the Coots FTP site, a number of KAP files for the Yaquina River from Toledo to the Newport jetties.  There are navionics files and Google satellite imagery files at various zoom levels.  Since I don't know what size screen or what CPU power folks might be using, I figured anyone who wants these files can experiment to see what zoom levels work best for their equipment. They worked in OpenCPN on my ancient laptop running winXP.  I also have JPG files of them if you just want to have them on a laptop for viewing, if you don't have a navigation program installed.

John, I guess maybe I should have asked beforehand just how much space you have on that FTP site?  

Thanks,
Mark


 

Thanks, Mark! Nobody can see the files on the communal Coots FTP site unless they know the secret handshake. I don't know if I can change the permissions there so anybody can see and download filed there, and the secret handshake is only needed to upload... Bob? I copied mark's KAPs to a www page on the Coots site:

http://www.coots.org/KAPs/YaquinaRiverKAPs

Haven't tried them yet.

There's plenty of room on the Coots site for charts and other useful stuff.

On 5/30/2021 10:13 AM, Mark N wrote:
Hi folks,
I just uploaded, to the Coots FTP site, a number of KAP files for the Yaquina River from Toledo to the Newport jetties.  There are navionics files and Google satellite imagery files at various zoom levels.  Since I don't know what size screen or what CPU power folks might be using, I figured anyone who wants these files can experiment to see what zoom levels work best for their equipment. They worked in OpenCPN on my ancient laptop running winXP.  I also have JPG files of them if you just want to have them on a laptop for viewing, if you don't have a navigation program installed.
John, I guess maybe I should have asked beforehand just how much space you have on that FTP site?
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It might be best for you to save your efforts converting Navionics charts to areas that aren't covered by the NOAA raster charts, Mark. When they're frozen as raster images, the Navionics charts really aren't as useful as the free NOAA charts that work with OpenCPN and other raster nav programs like OziExplorer. But Navionics does have bathymetric data for areas not covered by NOAA, like inland lakes and rivers.

The satellite images are useful everywhere. :o) I just tried one on Ozi, Yaquina_River_satellite_z14.kap, and it seems to be accurately calibrated, but the image is blocky in places. Something to do with reduction of number of colors and palettes. I bet. See attachment for an enlarged view.

Thanks for doing this!

On 5/30/2021 10:13 AM, Mark N wrote:
Hi folks,
I just uploaded, to the Coots FTP site, a number of KAP files for the Yaquina River from Toledo to the Newport jetties.  There are navionics files and Google satellite imagery files at various zoom levels.
...
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In OziExplorer the blocky image is only in the 14 level zoom of the Satellite photo charts. Strange color issues with the 14 and 15 zoom levels of the Navionics. See attachment. But they aren't useful anyway. Higher zoom levels of both look fine.

Please check these out if you use OpenCPN, or another raster nav program, and tell us how they work. Calibrated satellite photos are quite useful for the kind of poking around off the beaten path that Coots like, and the Navionics charts are useful for waters not covered by NOAA -- with the bathymetric data taken with a grain of salt. Thanks, Mark.

http://www.coots.org/KAPs/YaquinaRiverKAPs

On 5/30/2021 7:16 PM, I wrote:
...
The satellite images are useful everywhere. :o) I just tried one on Ozi, Yaquina_River_satellite_z14.kap,  and it seems to be accurately calibrated, but the image is blocky in places. Something to do with reduction of number of colors and palettes. I bet. See attachment for an enlarged view.
Thanks for doing this!

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Mark Neuhaus
 

Hi John,

On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 8:40 PM John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:

In OziExplorer the blocky image is only in the 14 level zoom of the
Satellite photo charts. Strange color issues with the 14 and 15 zoom 

That is interesting.  In OpenCPN on my laptop, I'm not having those issues.

I export the image from Sas.Planet as a JPG file and then covert to KAP with Imgkap. I wondered if that might be the problem.  So, attached are two PNG files exported from Sas.Planet and run through Imgkap.  Are they any better for you? 

Mark


Mark Neuhaus
 

Hi John,

On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 7:17 PM John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:

When they're frozen as raster images, the Navionics charts really aren't 
as useful as the free NOAA charts that work with OpenCPN and other
raster nav programs like OziExplorer.

I know they lose some info, for sure, but I had it in my mind that they were more recent than the NOAA charts.  It's no big effort to make them, so it's an exercise in learning Sas.Planet and comparing the data on NOAA vs navionics.
 
The satellite images are useful everywhere. :o)

I agree.  I like knowing what the countryside looks like from aerial photos.  Also shows stuff that doesn't get represented on the charts.
 
Yaquina_River_satellite_z14.kap,  and it seems to be accurately
calibrated, but the image is blocky in places. Something to do with
reduction of number of colors and palettes. I bet. See attachment for an
enlarged view.

Might be a palette problem, or you may be trying to zoom in past it's appropriate use.  In OpenCPN, it sticks a watermark in the upper left corner saying 'overzoom' when it considers you zoomed in too far. Does OziExplorer have a way to warn you that you've exceeded the accuracy of the map?

Of course, each increase in zoom level means four times as many tiles to cover the same size area on the map.  And a larger file size on the disk. And probably a larger strain on CPU and display capabilities. Desired image detail sorta dictates what zoom level(s) file one would need on the device.  That's why I make a range, figuring to experiment with them on my older laptop, a newer laptop, an android tablet, and android phones.  Find what zooms work on which devices.  Then work with that on the boat.  Still learning.......

Mark
 


Gerard Mittelstaedt
 

If you poke around a bit on the NOAA website you can download charts
as PDF files. - though printing them out to size might be a serious chore
https://charts.noaa.gov/InteractiveCatalog/nrnc.shtml#mapTabs-1

Interactive Chart Locator for NOAA charts -
can download PDF versions -- you MUST chose "Paper Charts (RNC & PDF)"
located near the top of the index map.

On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 2:25 PM Mark Neuhaus
<moonlitturtle1934@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi John,

On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 7:17 PM John Kohnen <jkohnen@boat-links.com> wrote:

When they're frozen as raster images, the Navionics charts really aren't

as useful as the free NOAA charts that work with OpenCPN and other
raster nav programs like OziExplorer.

I know they lose some info, for sure, but I had it in my mind that they were more recent than the NOAA charts. It's no big effort to make them, so it's an exercise in learning Sas.Planet and comparing the data on NOAA vs navionics.


The satellite images are useful everywhere. :o)

I agree. I like knowing what the countryside looks like from aerial photos. Also shows stuff that doesn't get represented on the charts.


Yaquina_River_satellite_z14.kap, and it seems to be accurately
calibrated, but the image is blocky in places. Something to do with
reduction of number of colors and palettes. I bet. See attachment for an
enlarged view.

Might be a palette problem, or you may be trying to zoom in past it's appropriate use. In OpenCPN, it sticks a watermark in the upper left corner saying 'overzoom' when it considers you zoomed in too far. Does OziExplorer have a way to warn you that you've exceeded the accuracy of the map?

Of course, each increase in zoom level means four times as many tiles to cover the same size area on the map. And a larger file size on the disk. And probably a larger strain on CPU and display capabilities. Desired image detail sorta dictates what zoom level(s) file one would need on the device. That's why I make a range, figuring to experiment with them on my older laptop, a newer laptop, an android tablet, and android phones. Find what zooms work on which devices. Then work with that on the boat. Still learning.......

Mark




--
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McAllen, Texas
USA


 

Both the PNG based charts look just fine. :o) JPEG might not be the best format for the Navionics charts, which use a limited number of colors. Can SAS Planet export PNGs or GIFs? If you're stuck with JPEGs from SAS Planet, try reducing the colors of the Navionics charts afterwards to 256 colors, with no dithering ("nearest color") and then save as PNGs. You might end up with smaller files than the JPEGs, and better looking. Probably a lotta work...

JPEG should be the best format for the satellite photos...

On 5/31/2021 9:24 AM, Mark N wrote:
...
I export the image from Sas.Planet as a JPG file and then covert to KAP with Imgkap. I wondered if that might be the problem.  So, attached are two PNG files exported from Sas.Planet and run through Imgkap.  Are they any better for you?
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I only enlarged the screenshot of Yaquina_River_satellite_z14 to better illustrate the blockiness. See attachment. It's been a while since I fiddled with making KAPs, but it's possible that the format doesn't support millions of colors, instead using a palette of limited colors. The program you use to make the KAPs may do the color reduction itself, sloppily, producing a palette that Ozi doesn't like. I'll look into that...

Those of us using raster nav programs like OpenCPN or OziExplorer, please check out how Mark's KAPs work on your setup.

Mark, Coots like to poke around up Poole and McCaffrey Sloughs off of the Yaquina River. Can you make some satellite photo charts of them? Please?

On 5/31/2021 12:24 PM, Mark N wrote:
...
Yaquina_River_satellite_z14.kap,  and it seems to be accurately
calibrated, but the image is blocky in places. Something to do with
reduction of number of colors and palettes. I bet. See attachment
for an
enlarged view.
Might be a palette problem, or you may be trying to zoom in past it's appropriate use.  In OpenCPN, it sticks a watermark in the upper left corner saying 'overzoom' when it considers you zoomed in too far. Does OziExplorer have a way to warn you that you've exceeded the accuracy of the map?
...
--
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An honest man can feel no pleasure in the exercise of power over his fellow citizens. (Thomas Jefferson)
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Thanks, Gerard. A handy resource for just browsing NOAA nautical charts is this site that provides PNGs of the charts:

https://xpda.com/nauticalcharts/

I use the chart listing at NOAA to download their raster charts, getting a whole CG district at a time:

https://charts.noaa.gov/RNCs/RNCs.shtml

NOAA will soon stop producing raster charts, and their paper counterparts. :o( I'll continue to use them -- the major features don't change:

https://nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/charts/noaa-raster-charts.html#ending-raster-chart-production

On 5/31/2021 12:50 PM, Gerard M wrote:
If you poke around a bit on the NOAA website you can download charts
as PDF files. - though printing them out to size might be a serious chore
https://charts.noaa.gov/InteractiveCatalog/nrnc.shtml#mapTabs-1
Interactive Chart Locator for NOAA charts -
can download PDF versions -- you MUST chose "Paper Charts (RNC & PDF)"
located near the top of the index map.
On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 2:25 PM Mark Neuhaus
<moonlitturtle1934@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi John,

On Sun, May 30, 2021 at 7:17 PM John Kohnen <jkohnen@boat-links.com> wrote:

When they're frozen as raster images, the Navionics charts really aren't

as useful as the free NOAA charts that work with OpenCPN and other
raster nav programs like OziExplorer.

I know they lose some info, for sure, but I had it in my mind that they were more recent than the NOAA charts. It's no big effort to make them, so it's an exercise in learning Sas.Planet and comparing the data on NOAA vs navionics.


The satellite images are useful everywhere. :o)

I agree. I like knowing what the countryside looks like from aerial photos. Also shows stuff that doesn't get represented on the charts.


Yaquina_River_satellite_z14.kap, and it seems to be accurately
calibrated, but the image is blocky in places. Something to do with
reduction of number of colors and palettes. I bet. See attachment for an
enlarged view.

Might be a palette problem, or you may be trying to zoom in past it's appropriate use. In OpenCPN, it sticks a watermark in the upper left corner saying 'overzoom' when it considers you zoomed in too far. Does OziExplorer have a way to warn you that you've exceeded the accuracy of the map?

Of course, each increase in zoom level means four times as many tiles to cover the same size area on the map. And a larger file size on the disk. And probably a larger strain on CPU and display capabilities. Desired image detail sorta dictates what zoom level(s) file one would need on the device. That's why I make a range, figuring to experiment with them on my older laptop, a newer laptop, an android tablet, and android phones. Find what zooms work on which devices. Then work with that on the boat. Still learning.......

Mark


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Mark Neuhaus
 

Hi John,

On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 4:12 PM John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:

fiddled with making KAPs, but it's possible that the format doesn't
support millions of colors, instead using a palette of limited colors.
The program you use to make the KAPs may do the color reduction itself,
sloppily, producing a palette that Ozi doesn't like. I'll look into that...

Yep, could be at any stage of production.  I'll delve into it more.
 
Mark, Coots like to poke around up Poole and McCaffrey Sloughs off of
the Yaquina River. Can you make some satellite photo charts of them? Please?

But, of course.  I'll let you know when I send them to the FTP site.

Mark 


Mark Neuhaus
 

Hi John,

On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 3:54 PM John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:

Can SAS Planet export PNGs or GIFs?

It can export JPG, PNG, and BMP, among a few others.  And to convert them, Imgkap says:
  "Image formats accepted are the formats accepted by FreeImage :
bmp,gif,jpg or jpeg,pbm,pgm,png,ppm,tga,tif or tiff…"

You might end up with smaller files than the JPEGs, and better looking. 

The exported PNGs and the converted KAPs were definitely smaller than the JPGs.

JPEG should be the best format for the satellite photos...

When I was making up the satellite imagery for Fern Ridge, I exported them in all the various formats and then compared the converted KAPs in OpenCPN.  The JPGs won out.  Never occurred to me that the navionics charts with much fewer colors wouldn't work as well. 

Still a lot to learn....

Mark


Mark Neuhaus
 

Hi Gerard,

On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 12:50 PM Gerard Mittelstaedt <MITTEL48@...> wrote:

If you poke around a bit on the NOAA website you can download charts
as PDF files.  - though printing them out to size might be a serious chore
https://charts.noaa.gov/InteractiveCatalog/nrnc.shtml#mapTabs-1

Interactive Chart Locator for NOAA charts -
can download PDF versions -- you MUST chose "Paper Charts (RNC & PDF)"
located near the top of the index map.

Yep, I've grabbed PDF (booklets and sheets) and BSB  formats from them for years.  In the past, I've printed the PDF sheets I'm interested in at published size on a desktop printer, trimmed the maps, taped them all together, and even coated them with packing tape to waterproof them.  Some of them still live on the boat.  

But nowadays, I mostly use a handheld Garmin GPSr with built in charts, an android "mini-tablet" (actually a cheap TracFone that was never activated) with charts and/or satellite imagery, and an android tablet with various programs available.  Sometimes they are all used at once.  Yeah, overkill, but what can I say?   :-)

Thanks,
Mark


 

You must have better eyesight than I do, Mark. <g> I use a 10" Android tablet.

On 5/31/2021 6:23 PM, Mark N wrote:
...
But nowadays, I mostly use a handheld Garmin GPSr with built in charts, an android "mini-tablet" (actually a cheap TracFone that was never activated) with charts and/or satellite imagery, and an android tablet with various programs available.  Sometimes they are all used at once. Yeah, overkill, but what can I say?   :-)
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Mark made satellite photo charts of Poole and McCaffery Sloughs, off the Yaquina, for us:

http://www.coots.org/KAPs/YaquinaRiverKAPs

--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
We have really everything in common with America nowadays except, of course, language. (Oscar Wilde)


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