Topics

Oar Creep?


Joe Novello
 

Hi Guys,

I'm hoping to garner information from your collective knowledge.  I built some new oars for my elegant punt recently. Today I tried them out and as I was rowing they repeatedly crept up in the oarlocks about six inches, then settled there. The trouble is they then overlapped about 4 inches at the handles and I had to use the cross oars rowing technique. 

Do any of you know why that might be happening?  I'm suspecting length or balance may be incorrect. The beam of the boat is 42 inches, the oars are 6 1/2'. 

Thanks for any help you can provide.  

Joe



 

What are you using for "leathers" on the oars? I've noticed that soft leathering seems more prone to creeping. I haven't tried them, but supposedly oarlocks with the forward horn in line with the pin eliminate most oar creep. (I guess I did try them once, on Bob M's Whilly Boat, but it was a brief outing, so I can't give a good review -- the boat rowed like a dream, and I don't recall an oar walking problem) Having the oarlock sockets perpendicular to the water, not parallel to the flared sides, also helps. Of course Bolger had something to say about oarlocks. See attachments. IIRC, he also had a plan for some el cheapo home fabricated oarlocks with the pin in line with the horn -- one and the same, in fact, in one of his books...

On 5/17/2020 2:21 PM, Toledo Joe wrote:
Hi Guys,
I'm hoping to garner information from your collective knowledge.  I built some new oars for my elegant punt recently. Today I tried them out and as I was rowing they repeatedly crept up in the oarlocks about six inches, then settled there. The trouble is they then overlapped about 4 inches at the handles and I had to use the cross oars rowing technique.
Do any of you know why that might be happening?  I'm suspecting length or balance may be incorrect. The beam of the boat is 42 inches, the oars are 6 1/2'.
Thanks for any help you can provide.
--
John <@Jkohnen>
You can only protect your liberties in this world by protecting the other man's freedom. (Clarence Darrow)
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Joe Novello
 

Thanks John, I knew someone would know more about this than I.  I’m using tuna cord tightly wrapped and sealed with six coats of varnish.  

My sockets are slightly out of perpendicular, maybe 12 degrees.  I like the idea of the pin in line with the forward horn.  I now have food for thought and more directions to play.  Maybe we can forge some of our own oarlocks with the design described by Bolger with our new foundry.  

Thanks again,

Joe


On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 4:43 PM John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:
What are you using for "leathers" on the oars? I've noticed that soft
leathering seems more prone to creeping. I haven't tried them, but
supposedly oarlocks with the forward horn in line with the pin eliminate
most oar creep. (I guess I did try them once, on Bob M's Whilly Boat,
but it was a brief outing, so I can't give a good review -- the boat
rowed like a dream, and I don't recall an oar walking problem)  Having
the oarlock sockets perpendicular to the water, not parallel to the
flared sides, also helps. Of course Bolger had something to say about
oarlocks. See attachments. IIRC, he also had a plan for some el cheapo
home fabricated oarlocks with the pin in line with the horn -- one and
the same, in fact, in one of his books...

On 5/17/2020 2:21 PM, Toledo Joe wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> I'm hoping to garner information from your collective knowledge.  I
> built some new oars for my elegant punt recently. Today I tried them out
> and as I was rowing they repeatedly crept up in the oarlocks about six
> inches, then settled there. The trouble is they then overlapped about 4
> inches at the handles and I had to use the cross oars rowing technique.
>
> Do any of you know why that might be happening?  I'm suspecting length
> or balance may be incorrect. The beam of the boat is 42 inches, the oars
> are 6 1/2'.
>
> Thanks for any help you can provide.

--
John <jkohnen@...>
You can only protect your liberties in this world by protecting the
other man's freedom. (Clarence Darrow)



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--
Joe Novello


Jove Lachman-Curl
 

I don’t have much experience with traditional oats, but I’ll offer my thoughts in case they help. My experience is almost all with racing oars.
The front horn is the pin for a strong light design. They are made of a hard smooth plastic, “leathers” are acetal and oarlock is nylon. And there is a “button” which is a collar on the leathers to push outboard against. The pin is 13mm stainless (1/2” and 7/16 common too). But A half inch bolt would do it as long as it was smooth in the loading area.
I’ve always thought good oarlocks could easily be made from wood or plastic with this basic layout. But racing ones are super cheap too. Like $20 or so, since rowers replace them as a wear item.
Typical pitch aft is 3-6 deg and pitch outboard 0-2 deg. I like 4-2.
The concept of mechanical procession might be in play with them walking onboard on you. Just a thought.
-Jove


On May 17, 2020, at 5:04 PM, Joe Novello <joenovello3@...> wrote:

Thanks John, I knew someone would know more about this than I.  I’m using tuna cord tightly wrapped and sealed with six coats of varnish.  

My sockets are slightly out of perpendicular, maybe 12 degrees.  I like the idea of the pin in line with the forward horn.  I now have food for thought and more directions to play.  Maybe we can forge some of our own oarlocks with the design described by Bolger with our new foundry.  

Thanks again,

Joe


On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 4:43 PM John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:
What are you using for "leathers" on the oars? I've noticed that soft
leathering seems more prone to creeping. I haven't tried them, but
supposedly oarlocks with the forward horn in line with the pin eliminate
most oar creep. (I guess I did try them once, on Bob M's Whilly Boat,
but it was a brief outing, so I can't give a good review -- the boat
rowed like a dream, and I don't recall an oar walking problem)  Having
the oarlock sockets perpendicular to the water, not parallel to the
flared sides, also helps. Of course Bolger had something to say about
oarlocks. See attachments. IIRC, he also had a plan for some el cheapo
home fabricated oarlocks with the pin in line with the horn -- one and
the same, in fact, in one of his books...

On 5/17/2020 2:21 PM, Toledo Joe wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> I'm hoping to garner information from your collective knowledge.  I
> built some new oars for my elegant punt recently. Today I tried them out
> and as I was rowing they repeatedly crept up in the oarlocks about six
> inches, then settled there. The trouble is they then overlapped about 4
> inches at the handles and I had to use the cross oars rowing technique.
>
> Do any of you know why that might be happening?  I'm suspecting length
> or balance may be incorrect. The beam of the boat is 42 inches, the oars
> are 6 1/2'.
>
> Thanks for any help you can provide.

--
John <jkohnen@...>
You can only protect your liberties in this world by protecting the
other man's freedom. (Clarence Darrow)



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--
Joe Novello


Joe Novello
 

Thanks Jove. Interesting reading and information. Those locks don’t appear to be that expensive either. 

Joe



On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 5:45 PM Jove Lachman-Curl <jovelc87@...> wrote:
I don’t have much experience with traditional oats, but I’ll offer my thoughts in case they help. My experience is almost all with racing oars.
The front horn is the pin for a strong light design. They are made of a hard smooth plastic, “leathers” are acetal and oarlock is nylon. And there is a “button” which is a collar on the leathers to push outboard against. The pin is 13mm stainless (1/2” and 7/16 common too). But A half inch bolt would do it as long as it was smooth in the loading area.
I’ve always thought good oarlocks could easily be made from wood or plastic with this basic layout. But racing ones are super cheap too. Like $20 or so, since rowers replace them as a wear item.
Typical pitch aft is 3-6 deg and pitch outboard 0-2 deg. I like 4-2.
The concept of mechanical procession might be in play with them walking onboard on you. Just a thought.
-Jove



On May 17, 2020, at 5:04 PM, Joe Novello <joenovello3@...> wrote:

Thanks John, I knew someone would know more about this than I.  I’m using tuna cord tightly wrapped and sealed with six coats of varnish.  

My sockets are slightly out of perpendicular, maybe 12 degrees.  I like the idea of the pin in line with the forward horn.  I now have food for thought and more directions to play.  Maybe we can forge some of our own oarlocks with the design described by Bolger with our new foundry.  

Thanks again,

Joe


On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 4:43 PM John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:
What are you using for "leathers" on the oars? I've noticed that soft
leathering seems more prone to creeping. I haven't tried them, but
supposedly oarlocks with the forward horn in line with the pin eliminate
most oar creep. (I guess I did try them once, on Bob M's Whilly Boat,
but it was a brief outing, so I can't give a good review -- the boat
rowed like a dream, and I don't recall an oar walking problem)  Having
the oarlock sockets perpendicular to the water, not parallel to the
flared sides, also helps. Of course Bolger had something to say about
oarlocks. See attachments. IIRC, he also had a plan for some el cheapo
home fabricated oarlocks with the pin in line with the horn -- one and
the same, in fact, in one of his books...

On 5/17/2020 2:21 PM, Toledo Joe wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> I'm hoping to garner information from your collective knowledge.  I
> built some new oars for my elegant punt recently. Today I tried them out
> and as I was rowing they repeatedly crept up in the oarlocks about six
> inches, then settled there. The trouble is they then overlapped about 4
> inches at the handles and I had to use the cross oars rowing technique.
>
> Do any of you know why that might be happening?  I'm suspecting length
> or balance may be incorrect. The beam of the boat is 42 inches, the oars
> are 6 1/2'.
>
> Thanks for any help you can provide.

--
John <jkohnen@...>
You can only protect your liberties in this world by protecting the
other man's freedom. (Clarence Darrow)



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--
Joe Novello

--
Joe Novello


 

IIRC, racing shell oars don't have round looms. They, or the collars, are shaped so the oar flops into the feathered position on the recovery stroke, and then flops back on the pull stroke. Jove?

On 5/17/2020 6:21 PM, Toledo Joe wrote:
Thanks Jove. Interesting reading and information. Those locks don’t appear to be that expensive either.
--
John <@Jkohnen>
Like all weak men he laid an exaggerated stress on not changing one's mind. (W. Somerset Maugham)
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Jove Lachman-Curl
 

Yes. Good point John. Those racing oarlocks might be a bit weird with round loom oars. They take a D or a squarish loom that flops from feathered to squared.
I’ve not tried them with round looms. I have a pair if you want any measurements.
-Jove

On May 17, 2020, at 7:15 PM, John Kohnen <@Jkohnen> wrote:

IIRC, racing shell oars don't have round looms. They, or the collars, are shaped so the oar flops into the feathered position on the recovery stroke, and then flops back on the pull stroke. Jove?

On 5/17/2020 6:21 PM, Toledo Joe wrote:
Thanks Jove. Interesting reading and information. Those locks don’t appear to be that expensive either.
--
John <@Jkohnen>
Like all weak men he laid an exaggerated stress on not changing one's mind. (W. Somerset Maugham)


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Making your own "Bolger" oarlocks in the Boathouse foundry sounds like a fun project! :o)

Duckworks sells bronze oarlocks with the forward horn and pin in line. They're designed to use D-shaped collars for "automatic" feathering and preset pitch. Not cheap:

https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/rs-do.htm

https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/dur-martinoli-parent.htm

A review:

https://preview.tinyurl.com/ybxtwexa

or

https://s3.amazonaws.com/duckbbs/hardware/oarlocks/douglas/Ash+Breeze+Article+11-05.pdf

On 5/17/2020 5:04 PM, Toledo Joe wrote:
...
My sockets are slightly out of perpendicular, maybe 12 degrees.  I like the idea of the pin in line with the forward horn.  I now have food for thought and more directions to play.  Maybe we can forge some of our own oarlocks with the design described by Bolger with our new foundry.
--
John <@Jkohnen>
Skepticism, like chastity, should not be relinquished too readily. (George Santayana)
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Electri-Cal
 

I like my oars to overlap by 6 in., especially in narrow boats.  But then I do row nor'east coast style.  Try crossing your legs opposite the oar arms crossing way, that evens the power level, then a foot board at full leg length.  On each stroke my butt raises off the seat by 3 in., then settles at strokes end.  If i don't get that lift, the blades are too small, or the length too short.  When correct, I could maintain a comfy gps 3 -4 mph in my earlier 16 ft lapstrake across Fern ridge, on a great sunny morning, about like a 3 hp outboard.  

Row like a dory fisherman 5 miles off Dover, with a catch to deliver, you'll love it.  You'll have to try the latest oars, soon as I can let go the electric fun stuff, bigger boat with locks further aft, no idea on that setup yet.

Best wishes,  Cal



On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 2:15 PM John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:
Making your own "Bolger" oarlocks in the Boathouse foundry sounds like a
fun project! :o)

Duckworks sells bronze oarlocks with the forward horn and pin in line.
They're designed to use D-shaped collars for "automatic" feathering and
preset pitch. Not cheap:

https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/rs-do.htm

https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/dur-martinoli-parent.htm

A review:

https://preview.tinyurl.com/ybxtwexa

or

https://s3.amazonaws.com/duckbbs/hardware/oarlocks/douglas/Ash+Breeze+Article+11-05.pdf


On 5/17/2020 5:04 PM, Toledo Joe wrote:
> ...
> My sockets are slightly out of perpendicular, maybe 12 degrees.  I like
> the idea of the pin in line with the forward horn.  I now have food for
> thought and more directions to play.  Maybe we can forge some of our own
> oarlocks with the design described by Bolger with our new foundry.

--
John <jkohnen@...>
Skepticism, like chastity, should not be relinquished too readily.
(George Santayana)


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--
Thanks, I will reply to all mail as possible ---  Cal


Joe Novello
 

Thanks Cal. So many things to consider....I’m working on several different ideas.  I’m going to try crossing my legs - that sounds interesting. I’ll also be trying several other things as well. So much fun!

Joe



On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 5:38 PM Electri-Cal <calboats@...> wrote:
I like my oars to overlap by 6 in., especially in narrow boats.  But then I do row nor'east coast style.  Try crossing your legs opposite the oar arms crossing way, that evens the power level, then a foot board at full leg length.  On each stroke my butt raises off the seat by 3 in., then settles at strokes end.  If i don't get that lift, the blades are too small, or the length too short.  When correct, I could maintain a comfy gps 3 -4 mph in my earlier 16 ft lapstrake across Fern ridge, on a great sunny morning, about like a 3 hp outboard.  

Row like a dory fisherman 5 miles off Dover, with a catch to deliver, you'll love it.  You'll have to try the latest oars, soon as I can let go the electric fun stuff, bigger boat with locks further aft, no idea on that setup yet.

Best wishes,  Cal



On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 2:15 PM John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:
Making your own "Bolger" oarlocks in the Boathouse foundry sounds like a
fun project! :o)

Duckworks sells bronze oarlocks with the forward horn and pin in line.
They're designed to use D-shaped collars for "automatic" feathering and
preset pitch. Not cheap:

https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/rs-do.htm

https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/dur-martinoli-parent.htm

A review:

https://preview.tinyurl.com/ybxtwexa

or

https://s3.amazonaws.com/duckbbs/hardware/oarlocks/douglas/Ash+Breeze+Article+11-05.pdf


On 5/17/2020 5:04 PM, Toledo Joe wrote:
> ...
> My sockets are slightly out of perpendicular, maybe 12 degrees.  I like
> the idea of the pin in line with the forward horn.  I now have food for
> thought and more directions to play.  Maybe we can forge some of our own
> oarlocks with the design described by Bolger with our new foundry.

--
John <jkohnen@...>
Skepticism, like chastity, should not be relinquished too readily.
(George Santayana)


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--
Thanks, I will reply to all mail as possible ---  Cal

--
Joe Novello


 

I found the Bolger el cheapo oarlocks in the file section of the group web page. Put there by Pat Patteson years ago. I sure miss him. <sigh> I enlarged the drawing. See attachment.

With a little simple lathe work a sleeve bearing could be fitted on the horn that'd probably completely eliminate oar walking and make rowing even easier. See Gaco oarlocks:

http://gacooarlocks.com/

--
John <@Jkohnen>
The means of defence against foreign danger have been always the instruments of tyranny at home. (James Madison)



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Bob Miller
 

Duckworks sells Gaco.

Bob

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 6:50 PM John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:
I found the Bolger el cheapo oarlocks in the file section of the group
web page. Put there by Pat Patteson years ago. I sure miss him. <sigh> I
enlarged the drawing. See attachment.

With a little simple lathe work a sleeve bearing could be fitted on the
horn that'd probably completely eliminate oar walking and make rowing
even easier. See Gaco oarlocks:

http://gacooarlocks.com/

--
John <jkohnen@...>
The means of defence against foreign danger have been always the
instruments of tyranny at home. (James Madison)



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Not terribly expensive -- and be sure to watch the video of the scientific comparison test. ;o)

https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/gaco-b.htm

On 5/18/2020 8:39 PM, Bob Miller wrote:
Duckworks sells Gaco.
--
John <@Jkohnen>
Catch-and-release, that's like running down pedestrians in your car and then, when they get up and limp away, saying -- Off you go! That's fine. I just wanted to see if I could hit you. (Ellen DeGeneres)
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David Luckhardt
 

I've been using the Douglas locks with my 8.5' spoons and like them, but of course you can't feather oars or row in the purist's style.  ;-)

Not liking the plastic sleeves / leathers (both noisy and ugly) I built up  my own with layers of leather and PL Premium which work well.  And you can remove the oars from the Douglas locks by running the oar inboard until the thin part where loom meets blade.

That said, if having the locks attached to the oars is OK for your style of boating, the Gaco locks are probably a better choice.

P2012203.JPG

--

David "Thorne" Luckhardt

cell 510.604.8203


 

If you care about such things, you could modify your oars' square looms to a D shape and releather them to regain feathering. Toledo Joe loves to make oars. He could knock out a set of oars with D shaped looms in no time. ;o)

On 5/20/2020 8:53 AM, Thorne wrote:
I've been using the Douglas locks with my 8.5' spoons and like them, but of course you can't feather oars or row in the purist's style.  ;-)
Not liking the plastic sleeves / leathers (both noisy and ugly) I built up  my own with layers of leather and PL Premium which work well.  And you can remove the oars from the Douglas locks by running the oar inboard until the thin part where loom meets blade.
That said, if having the locks attached to the oars is OK for your style of boating, the Gaco locks are probably a better choice.
--
John <@Jkohnen>
In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican. (H. L. Mencken)
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