Topics

New Build Decison: SUP vs. 'Yak

David Graybeal
 

I am looking for opinions. Any and all. Informed or theoretical (it helps if you specify which you're offering).

Why? Because I'm starting to fantasize about a boatlike object I can keep on top of my truck all summer, with a paddle in the wayback, and have handy for impromptu (like I have a free hour after work, or couple of hours in the middle of the day while something dries) time on the water. The Harbor Woodworks shop is not far from the Columbia River 42nd Av. ramp. Even closer is the slough that runs thru North & NE Portland. My oldest son and two grandkids live not far from the Willamette River Selwood Park river access. I visit them often, and the 2 year old is turning into a Waterboy... so would like to start taking him out.

The two primary contenders are a SUP and an Open Cockpit Kayak. 

As far as a SUP goes... probably a Storer "T'aal" -- https://www.storerboatplans.com/boatplans/taal-touring-sup-a-new-design-for-a-stand-up-paddle-board/

For an open kayak, probably the Dave Gentry "Chuckanut 15" -- http://gentrycustomboats.com/C15page.html

Thoughts??

Andrew Linn
 

SUP is great exercise and you do work at it.

The Chuckanut 15 is an excellent kayak design with all the benefits of being low in the water so you avoid wind, ability to ride out waves, etc. And a greatly reduced chance of dunking.

SUP requires skill. C15 requires you sit with butt nearly level with your heels.

Sit on the floor for an hour, see if you like it. Rent a SUP, see if you like that. I'd recommend getting instruction because it is different.

On 8/27/2019 9:28 AM, David Graybeal via Groups.Io wrote:

I am looking for opinions. Any and all. Informed or theoretical (it helps if you specify which you're offering).

Why? Because I'm starting to fantasize about a boatlike object I can keep on top of my truck all summer, with a paddle in the wayback, and have handy for impromptu (like I have a free hour after work, or couple of hours in the middle of the day while something dries) time on the water. The Harbor Woodworks shop is not far from the Columbia River 42nd Av. ramp. Even closer is the slough that runs thru North & NE Portland. My oldest son and two grandkids live not far from the Willamette River Selwood Park river access. I visit them often, and the 2 year old is turning into a Waterboy... so would like to start taking him out.

The two primary contenders are a SUP and an Open Cockpit Kayak.

As far as a SUP goes... probably a Storer "T'aal" --
https://www.storerboatplans.com/boatplans/taal-touring-sup-a-new-design-for-a-stand-up-paddle-board/

For an open kayak, probably the Dave Gentry "Chuckanut 15" --
http://gentrycustomboats.com/C15page.html

Thoughts??

Case Turner
 

I have found that kayaks are more versatile and can be a better option if you get caught in a squall or inclimate weather. 

Also the hull speed of a kayak is greater so you can cover more ground. Especially in windy conditions. On a SUP your body is a big sail all the time which can make paddling into ahead wind or cross wind tricky.

Case

Sent from not here

On Aug 27, 2019, at 9:28 AM, David Graybeal via Groups.Io <harbordavid@...> wrote:

I am looking for opinions. Any and all. Informed or theoretical (it helps if you specify which you're offering).

Why? Because I'm starting to fantasize about a boatlike object I can keep on top of my truck all summer, with a paddle in the wayback, and have handy for impromptu (like I have a free hour after work, or couple of hours in the middle of the day while something dries) time on the water. The Harbor Woodworks shop is not far from the Columbia River 42nd Av. ramp. Even closer is the slough that runs thru North & NE Portland. My oldest son and two grandkids live not far from the Willamette River Selwood Park river access. I visit them often, and the 2 year old is turning into a Waterboy... so would like to start taking him out.

The two primary contenders are a SUP and an Open Cockpit Kayak. 

As far as a SUP goes... probably a Storer "T'aal" -- https://www.storerboatplans.com/boatplans/taal-touring-sup-a-new-design-for-a-stand-up-paddle-board/

For an open kayak, probably the Dave Gentry "Chuckanut 15" -- http://gentrycustomboats.com/C15page.html

Thoughts??


--
Dirt

David Graybeal
 

Dirt - you have a Chuckanut 15... right? Do you/did you ever carry one/more of the offspring aboard? Dogs? 

Another thing in favor of the C15 is that it will carry more of a load. So it will last longer as the grandkids get bigger?

 

You can try out a SUP for free any Thursday or Sunday afternoon at the Toledo Boathouses. Anybody know what design the Boathouse's SUPs are?

SUPs seem to be designed for lightweight crew. A typical Coot like David might overload one, spoiling it's performance. SUPs just seem Wrong to me. You stand up there in the wind, constantly exercising your "core" muscled just to stay upright...

An excellent writeup about Mik's design on his Website. If you're gonna build a SUP, build his. But ask him first if he thinks it's work with a Coot of your substance aboard. <g>

I'd go with a Chuckanut, or other "double paddle canoe", as Francis Herreshoff would call them, instead. But don't listen to me, I went for a Geodesic Airolite rowboat for the same use (except for keeping on a cartop all the time):

http://gaboats.com/

On 8/27/2019 9:28 AM, David G wrote:
I am looking for opinions. Any and all. Informed or theoretical (it helps if you specify which you're offering).
Why? Because I'm starting to fantasize about a boatlike object I can keep on top of my truck all summer, with a paddle in the wayback, and have handy for impromptu (like I have a free hour after work, or couple of hours in the middle of the day while something dries) time on the water. The Harbor Woodworks shop is not far from the Columbia River 42nd Av. ramp. Even closer is the slough that runs thru North & NE Portland. My oldest son and two grandkids live not far from the Willamette River Selwood Park river access. I visit them often, and the 2 year old is turning into a Waterboy... so would like to start taking him out.
The two primary contenders are a SUP and an Open Cockpit Kayak.
As far as a SUP goes... probably a Storer "T'aal" --
https://www.storerboatplans.com/boatplans/taal-touring-sup-a-new-design-for-a-stand-up-paddle-board/
For an open kayak, probably the Dave Gentry "Chuckanut 15" --
http://gentrycustomboats.com/C15page.html
--
John (@Jkohnen)
Nobody ought to wear a Greek fisherman's hat unless they meet two conditions: 1. He is a Greek; 2. He is a Fisherman (Roy Blount Jr.)

Andrew Linn
 

Hey, Graybeal, here's one for ya: The TikTak 10-ish. It operates as either a kayak or an SUP. It it light, cheap and easy to build, and stores easily. Plans are free and you can even use it with a folding chair to get both a comfortable kayak AND the experience of an SUP.

Admit it. A BRILLIANT design.
http://toledocommunityboathouse.com/plans/150318_tiktakten/tiktak.pdf

On 8/27/2019 3:20 PM, John Kohnen wrote:
You can try out a SUP for free any Thursday or Sunday afternoon at the Toledo Boathouses. Anybody know what design the Boathouse's SUPs are?

SUPs seem to be designed for lightweight crew. A typical Coot like David might overload one, spoiling it's performance. SUPs just seem Wrong to me. You stand up there in the wind, constantly exercising your "core" muscled just to stay upright...

An excellent writeup about Mik's design on his Website. If you're gonna build a SUP, build his. But ask him first if he thinks it's work with a Coot of your substance aboard. <g>

I'd go with a Chuckanut, or other "double paddle canoe", as Francis Herreshoff would call them, instead. But don't listen to me, I went for a Geodesic Airolite rowboat for the same use (except for keeping on a cartop all the time):

http://gaboats.com/

On 8/27/2019 9:28 AM, David G wrote:
I am looking for opinions. Any and all. Informed or theoretical (it helps if you specify which you're offering).

Why? Because I'm starting to fantasize about a boatlike object I can keep on top of my truck all summer, with a paddle in the wayback, and have handy for impromptu (like I have a free hour after work, or couple of hours in the middle of the day while something dries) time on the water. The Harbor Woodworks shop is not far from the Columbia River 42nd Av. ramp. Even closer is the slough that runs thru North & NE Portland. My oldest son and two grandkids live not far from the Willamette River Selwood Park river access. I visit them often, and the 2 year old is turning into a Waterboy... so would like to start taking him out.

The two primary contenders are a SUP and an Open Cockpit Kayak.

As far as a SUP goes... probably a Storer "T'aal" --
https://www.storerboatplans.com/boatplans/taal-touring-sup-a-new-design-for-a-stand-up-paddle-board/

For an open kayak, probably the Dave Gentry "Chuckanut 15" --
http://gentrycustomboats.com/C15page.html

Phil Peck <phil@...>
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZMW6WvUz2s

I am not sure this will work for David, but this seems to have Andrew written all over it.

-----Original Message-----
From: John Kohnen
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 3:20 PM
To: oregoncoots@groups.io
Subject: Re: [oregoncoots] New Build Decison: SUP vs. 'Yak

You can try out a SUP for free any Thursday or Sunday afternoon at the
Toledo Boathouses. Anybody know what design the Boathouse's SUPs are?

SUPs seem to be designed for lightweight crew. A typical Coot like David
might overload one, spoiling it's performance. SUPs just seem Wrong to
me. You stand up there in the wind, constantly exercising your "core"
muscled just to stay upright...

An excellent writeup about Mik's design on his Website. If you're gonna
build a SUP, build his. But ask him first if he thinks it's work with a
Coot of your substance aboard. <g>

I'd go with a Chuckanut, or other "double paddle canoe", as Francis
Herreshoff would call them, instead. But don't listen to me, I went for
a Geodesic Airolite rowboat for the same use (except for keeping on a
cartop all the time):

http://gaboats.com/

On 8/27/2019 9:28 AM, David G wrote:
I am looking for opinions. Any and all. Informed or theoretical (it helps if you specify which you're offering).

Why? Because I'm starting to fantasize about a boatlike object I can keep on top of my truck all summer, with a paddle in the wayback, and have handy for impromptu (like I have a free hour after work, or couple of hours in the middle of the day while something dries) time on the water. The Harbor Woodworks shop is not far from the Columbia River 42nd Av. ramp. Even closer is the slough that runs thru North & NE Portland. My oldest son and two grandkids live not far from the Willamette River Selwood Park river access. I visit them often, and the 2 year old is turning into a Waterboy... so would like to start taking him out.

The two primary contenders are a SUP and an Open Cockpit Kayak.

As far as a SUP goes... probably a Storer "T'aal" --
https://www.storerboatplans.com/boatplans/taal-touring-sup-a-new-design-for-a-stand-up-paddle-board/

For an open kayak, probably the Dave Gentry "Chuckanut 15" --
http://gentrycustomboats.com/C15page.html
--
John (@Jkohnen)
Nobody ought to wear a Greek fisherman's hat unless they meet two
conditions: 1. He is a Greek; 2. He is a Fisherman (Roy Blount Jr.)






---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

David Graybeal
 

Yaaaaaahhhhh,... NO.

Anything that's got Andrew all over it is liable to ooze some on whoever gets close. Not a fate I'd wish on any forthright, handsome, talented, young Coot. Or even on myself <G>

sfmarckx
 

I would go with the SUP.

We have paddled kayaks (little plastic ones) for years and especially enjoy taking them up Chimacum Creek, a tidal estuary near the South end of Port Townsend bay.

Earlier this year a friend asked if he could store two SUPs at our house and we could use them as much as we wanted. They are distressed rentals that he got cheap and patched up. We took them to "Family Camp" (an invention of my wife's to get the Grandkids out to visit) at Lake Sylvia near Montesano. At first I was really wobbly on it, but got more and more used to it by the minute. The big thing is I could take our dog (who is not a swimmer and is big) along or I could put a kid on the bow of it and paddle around and have a nice conversation and look at stuff. Yes, you can take a kid in a kayak, but you can't move around in the same way and you don't see as much as when you are looking straight down at the water. Also the SUP is a great swimming platform. You can kneel on it, sit on it, sit with your feet in the water, slide off it and go for a swim and climb back on. It can't swamp, which is a major plus! The kids at Family camp took to them very quickly.

Yes, there is more windage when you are standing up, and using a single bladed paddle is not as easy as a double kayak paddle. They do make adjustable SUP paddles that you can slide another blade into to convert them into a double paddle if that is an issue and you can always sit down or kneel if you want less windage.

If you are going to store it on top of your car you might look for a distressed rental for $100 or so and patch it up so it isn't a big expense.

I still like our little kayaks, but I find I take the SUP out first and let someone else use the kayak. It is also easier to hose down a SUP instead of trying to get the sand out of a kayak after the kids have been playing with it. There are sliding seat rowing systems made for SUPs so I don't see why you couldn't put a seat on it and just use a double paddle if you didn't want to stand.

All the best, Scott Marckx

George C
 

David,

Never been on a SUP, so can't say much about it. But I have always had an affection for a open double kayak. When I was 15, I built one from ClarkCraft plans. I believe it was their 15'er. The skin was cotton canvas and I seal it with house paint. The Chuckanut 15 reminds me of it.

Another thought... did you see the Wee Rob canoe at Toledo? It was next to my booth. At 12', I think it would make a nice knock around boat. A little more involved in building though.

George

On Tuesday, August 27, 2019, 09:28:12 AM PDT, David Graybeal via Groups.Io <harbordavid@...> wrote:


I am looking for opinions. Any and all. Informed or theoretical (it helps if you specify which you're offering).

Why? Because I'm starting to fantasize about a boatlike object I can keep on top of my truck all summer, with a paddle in the wayback, and have handy for impromptu (like I have a free hour after work, or couple of hours in the middle of the day while something dries) time on the water. The Harbor Woodworks shop is not far from the Columbia River 42nd Av. ramp. Even closer is the slough that runs thru North & NE Portland. My oldest son and two grandkids live not far from the Willamette River Selwood Park river access. I visit them often, and the 2 year old is turning into a Waterboy... so would like to start taking him out.

The two primary contenders are a SUP and an Open Cockpit Kayak. 

As far as a SUP goes... probably a Storer "T'aal" -- https://www.storerboatplans.com/boatplans/taal-touring-sup-a-new-design-for-a-stand-up-paddle-board/

For an open kayak, probably the Dave Gentry "Chuckanut 15" -- http://gentrycustomboats.com/C15page.html

Thoughts??

David Graybeal
 

Scott - Thanks for that perspective. Now you've gone and given me pause... just as I was leaning toward settling on the Chuckanut 15. Will you be at the Festiveal 'Coots Breakfast' on Saturday in PT? I'd like to hear more. 

David Graybeal
 

Love the WeeRob. But since this is a rig that will live on top of my truck all summer... I don't want to make it anything too gobsmackingly gorgeous.

George C
 

Yea, and the cost to build will be higher too. Sounds like the open kayak... but the grandkids might think you are the coolest grampa if you show up on a SUP.

On Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 05:52:41 AM PDT, David Graybeal via Groups.Io <harbordavid@...> wrote:


Love the WeeRob. But since this is a rig that will live on top of my truck all summer... I don't want to make it anything too gobsmackingly gorgeous.

Richard Green
 

What SUP?

Hehehehehehe

Rich

On Aug 28, 2019, at 10:00 AM, George C via Groups.Io <glcost2@...> wrote:

Yea, and the cost to build will be higher too. Sounds like the open kayak... but the grandkids might think you are the coolest grampa if you show up on a SUP.

On Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 05:52:41 AM PDT, David Graybeal via Groups.Io <harbordavid@...> wrote:


Love the WeeRob. But since this is a rig that will live on top of my truck all summer... I don't want to make it anything too gobsmackingly gorgeous.

Hank
 

Using a SUP might make you great but my experience with the great grands is they really love you if they get to ride in the boat and even help paddle it.  I vote for the kayak.  They might even like a sail on it.  LOL

Hank in OR

On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 2:25 AM George C via Groups.Io <glcost2=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
David,

Never been on a SUP, so can't say much about it. But I have always had an affection for a open double kayak. When I was 15, I built one from ClarkCraft plans. I believe it was their 15'er. The skin was cotton canvas and I seal it with house paint. The Chuckanut 15 reminds me of it.

Another thought... did you see the Wee Rob canoe at Toledo? It was next to my booth. At 12', I think it would make a nice knock around boat. A little more involved in building though.

George

On Tuesday, August 27, 2019, 09:28:12 AM PDT, David Graybeal via Groups.Io <harbordavid=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:


I am looking for opinions. Any and all. Informed or theoretical (it helps if you specify which you're offering).

Why? Because I'm starting to fantasize about a boatlike object I can keep on top of my truck all summer, with a paddle in the wayback, and have handy for impromptu (like I have a free hour after work, or couple of hours in the middle of the day while something dries) time on the water. The Harbor Woodworks shop is not far from the Columbia River 42nd Av. ramp. Even closer is the slough that runs thru North & NE Portland. My oldest son and two grandkids live not far from the Willamette River Selwood Park river access. I visit them often, and the 2 year old is turning into a Waterboy... so would like to start taking him out.

The two primary contenders are a SUP and an Open Cockpit Kayak. 

As far as a SUP goes... probably a Storer "T'aal" -- https://www.storerboatplans.com/boatplans/taal-touring-sup-a-new-design-for-a-stand-up-paddle-board/

For an open kayak, probably the Dave Gentry "Chuckanut 15" -- http://gentrycustomboats.com/C15page.html

Thoughts??

 

Wee Robs are really "wee". You gotta remember that "Nessmuk", the outdoor writer the original was built for, was a small, slight man. A Wee Rob is really only practical for children nowadays, not Coots of David's stature. Jamie brought one he built to the Depoe Bay show years ago, and it was entertaining to watch him gingerly get in and out of it and teeter carefully around the docks. <g>

Chuckanuts can be used as SUPs too (more Coot Chuckanut photos follow)

https://preview.tinyurl.com/yxgobwsm

or

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jkohnen/15077386886/in/photolist-oYkxQj-oHSQ1h-p171E2-oYkP4q-p1nn2P-decsjn-decsL5-decsp8-decsgX-cjizxq-cjiziJ-cjizq7

On 8/27/2019 10:49 PM, George C wrote:
David,
Never been on a SUP, so can't say much about it. But I have always had an affection for a open double kayak. When I was 15, I built one from ClarkCraft plans. I believe it was their 15'er. The skin was cotton canvas and I seal it with house paint. The Chuckanut 15 reminds me of it.
Another thought... did you see the Wee Rob canoe at Toledo? It was next to my booth. At 12', I think it would make a nice knock around boat. A little more involved in building though.
--
John (@Jkohnen)
I have no truck with lettuce, cabbage, and similar chlorophyll. Any dietician will tell you that a running foot of apple strudel contains four times the vitamins of a bushel of beans. (S. J. Perelman)

 

Thanks, Scott! It's great to get some input from someone who's actually lived with a SUP.

On 8/28/2019 12:04 AM, Scott Mx wrote:
I would go with the SUP.
We have paddled kayaks (little plastic ones) for years and especially enjoy taking them up Chimacum Creek, a tidal estuary near the South end of Port Townsend bay.
Earlier this year a friend asked if he could store two SUPs at our house and we could use them as much as we wanted. They are distressed rentals that he got cheap and patched up. We took them to "Family Camp" (an invention of my wife's to get the Grandkids out to visit) at Lake Sylvia near Montesano. At first I was really wobbly on it, but got more and more used to it by the minute. The big thing is I could take our dog (who is not a swimmer and is big) along or I could put a kid on the bow of it and paddle around and have a nice conversation and look at stuff. Yes, you can take a kid in a kayak, but you can't move around in the same way and you don't see as much as when you are looking straight down at the water. Also the SUP is a great swimming platform. You can kneel on it, sit on it, sit with your feet in the water, slide off it and go for a swim and climb back on. It can't swamp, which is a major plus! The kids at Family camp took to them very quickly.
Yes, there is more windage when you are standing up, and using a single bladed paddle is not as easy as a double kayak paddle. They do make adjustable SUP paddles that you can slide another blade into to convert them into a double paddle if that is an issue and you can always sit down or kneel if you want less windage.
If you are going to store it on top of your car you might look for a distressed rental for $100 or so and patch it up so it isn't a big expense.
I still like our little kayaks, but I find I take the SUP out first and let someone else use the kayak. It is also easier to hose down a SUP instead of trying to get the sand out of a kayak after the kids have been playing with it. There are sliding seat rowing systems made for SUPs so I don't see why you couldn't put a seat on it and just use a double paddle if you didn't want to stand.
--
John (@Jkohnen)
I must say I find television very educational. The minute somebody turns it on, I go to the library and read a good book. (Groucho Marx)

Case Turner
 

See as I said the kayaks are more versatile than a SUP!

I
As I mentioned to David in a PM I prefer the 12’ Chuckanut over the 15’ for solo use. Yes you can stand up and paddle in the 12 too.

Case

Sent from not here

On Aug 28, 2019, at 4:39 PM, John Kohnen <@Jkohnen> wrote:

Wee Robs are really "wee". You gotta remember that "Nessmuk", the outdoor writer the original was built for, was a small, slight man. A Wee Rob is really only practical for children nowadays, not Coots of David's stature. Jamie brought one he built to the Depoe Bay show years ago, and it was entertaining to watch him gingerly get in and out of it and teeter carefully around the docks. <g>

Chuckanuts can be used as SUPs too (more Coot Chuckanut photos follow)

https://preview.tinyurl.com/yxgobwsm

or

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jkohnen/15077386886/in/photolist-oYkxQj-oHSQ1h-p171E2-oYkP4q-p1nn2P-decsjn-decsL5-decsp8-decsgX-cjizxq-cjiziJ-cjizq7

On 8/27/2019 10:49 PM, George C wrote:
David,
Never been on a SUP, so can't say much about it. But I have always had an affection for a open double kayak. When I was 15, I built one from ClarkCraft plans. I believe it was their 15'er. The skin was cotton canvas and I seal it with house paint. The Chuckanut 15 reminds me of it.
Another thought... did you see the Wee Rob canoe at Toledo? It was next to my booth. At 12', I think it would make a nice knock around boat. A little more involved in building though.
--
John (@Jkohnen)
I have no truck with lettuce, cabbage, and similar chlorophyll. Any dietician will tell you that a running foot of apple strudel contains four times the vitamins of a bushel of beans. (S. J. Perelman)



sfmarckx
 

Hi David,

I'm not sure about the brunch. I hope to be at the Festival, but other things are trying to conspire... I hope to participate in the Boat School Raid though, cruising down there to anchor nearby Wednesday night and then meeting the folks at the Boat School bright and early Thursday morning. Here's the Raid info:


Yes, the kayak will go up wind a lot easier than the SUP and the SUP is a wetter ride, but it sure is fun and it is nice to be able to move around and not just sit there. We went for a paddle today and taking the dog was easy. That was always a problem with the kayaks. I am sort of on a quest to get closer to and more comfortable with the water and the SUP is a great way to do that.

The first thing that made me curious about SUPs was an interview with Karl Kruger during his R2AK SUP trip where he talked about surfing downwind in a 50 knot gale in Johnstone Strait on his SUP and how he would never do that in a kayak. There is something about not having to bail out a boat and having it so low to the water that it is fairly easy to get back on it. ...and a leash to keep you connected to it!

The kayak will insulate you from the water a little bit more, but it will be a pain if it swamps. It just depends on what you want and how you plan on using it.

Another tempting boat is the Cape Falcon double paddle canoe...

Is there such thing as one too many small boats?

All the best, Scott

David Luckhardt
 

I'll add to John's remarks about "wee" -- even a modern take on the double-paddle canoe like Harry Bryant's Fiddlehead can be very tender for anyone over 170lbs or so (i.e. me).   The Chuckanut seems the best choice in my estimation.

 

My fix for securing boats like these to a roofrack is to crimp a loop (grommet) of coated stainless steel cable through the wood at the stem or stern, or wherever it is thick enough to drill a hole without excessively weakening the frame.  I had mine done on my Fiddlehead by the local boatyard.  Then use a long coated cable with loop ends and a lock to secure it to the roof rack.   This wouldn't stop someone willing to break the boat, but should discourage casual theft.

 

https://live.staticflickr.com/7871/46894934782_da94a7ae38_b.jpg