Date   
Re: Six boys. Five little boats. A new place to go. All day to get there.

Lisa
 

Love the photos...thank you for sharing.
Lisa

Hello

Lisa
 

Hi Oregon Coots,
Thank you so much for inviting me into your group. I had a great time at Toledo and a warm welcome.
Lisa

Re: That movie I was talking about at the Toledo Boat Show

 

On 8/23/2019 7:54 AM, Andrew wrote:
I was trying to remember a John Cusack movie that featured a boat race. At a key point in the race, the bad guys cut the good guy's halyard (by shooting the line with a crossbow) and John saves the day by tying the line to a little ball and lobbing it through the (unusually large and horizontally mounted) eyebolt at the masthead.
The movie is "One Crazy Summer," a classic 1986 romantic comedy with Cusack, Demi Moore, even Bobcat Goldthwait.
Sadly, I can't find it on either Netflix or Amazon Prime :(
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Crazy_Summer
--
John (@Jkohnen)
No man will be a sailor who has contrivance enough to get himself into jail; for being in a ship is being in a jail, with the chance of being drowned... A man in jail has more room, better food, and commonly better company. (Samuel Johnson)

Re: Six boys. Five little boats. A new place to go. All day to get there.

Keith Korporaal
 

Thank you, Dan, for sharing... very nice, pictures and all!


From: oregoncoots@groups.io <oregoncoots@groups.io> on behalf of Richard Green <chaos5@...>
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2019 7:11:49 PM
To: oregoncoots@groups.io <oregoncoots@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [oregoncoots] Six boys. Five little boats. A new place to go. All day to get there.
 
Excellent account and excellent Journey!!  Thanks so much for taking us along.

Rich

On Aug 22, 2019, at 6:24 PM, John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:

Dan from Almostcanada's account of our voyage down to Newport Monday.



-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: MTF
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 09:19:31 -0700
From: Dan Rogers <DanAshore@...>
To: Dan Rogers <DanAshore@...>


A short hop, down the lazy river.
 
<image035.jpg>
 
Six boys.  Five little boats.  A new place to go.  All day to get there.
 
<image036.jpg>
 
There’s this place, that almost-nobody seems to know about.  There’s another place, that almost-everybody seems to know about.  They drive right on by one, to get to the other.  They line up with the trucks, and the motor homes, and roar on out there.  And, that’s a pity.
<image037.jpg>
 
Our little group of adventurers took the slow lane, and I think, did it right.  You know.  By boat.
 
It’s one of those chunks of water that literally leaves you wondering “what’s around the next bend.”  And, to my mind, that’s what life should be all about.
 
It’s the journey.
 
The Yaquina River leads from a place called Elk City, down to the sea.  Actually, it starts someplace in the trees, uphill from Elk City.  And, just for the record, if there ever was one, there ain’t no City there, now.  I went there, to make sure, a while back.  Anyhow.
 
Today’s voyage of discovery was from about the upper, middle, top half of the river, to just-about-the-bottom.  This is one of those places where precision might matter a lot, when you manage to pass a nav beacon on the wrong side, with a falling tide.  Otherwise, you don’t even have to squint much, to imagine yourself as one of the indigenous people, or maybe a homesteader from a century and a quarter ago.  It’s a pretty un-molested place.
 
Today, it was Bartender, Lazy Jack, Dr. Petra, Eagle, and Walkabout, who with their human and canine accomplices, had the river pretty much to themselves.  We started out before the first cups of coffee were cold, and with a thinning mist.
 
<image038.jpg>
 
Dunno how quite how this estuary came to be.  But, for a “river,” it’s real durn salty.  In fact, the tide simply rips up and down.  Twice a day, the water rides right up to the tree roots.  Twice a day, there are mud banks, and shoals, even oyster shoals.
 
A thriving industrial base depends upon this channel.  The Port of Toledo has a new mondo-travel lift and associated repair yard near the “top” of the stream.  And, here and there on the way to the “bottom,” folks continue to find ways to make a living.
 
<image039.jpg>
 
<image040.jpg>
 
These guys are in the process of creating an enormous pile of oyster shells along the river bank.  I do suspect they’re a lot more interested in the growing, and dredging, and shucking and marketing of those bi-valve crustaceans.  But, it is a pretty impressive mound of a shell midden.  Biggest  I’ve seen this side of, say, Biloxi.  
 
But, the turn-around point for our VoD, is a place that has figured out how to amalgamate a real deal fishing port and processing center with a big deal tourist mecca.  Newport, Oregon.  Quite the place.
 
<image041.jpg>
 
John worked his local boy mojo with the Port Director, and got us a ringside seat.
 
.
 
<image042.jpg>
 
He even managed to get a band of rowdy locals to greet us, as we made the final turn into the fishing boat pier.
 
<image043.jpg>
 
Jamie the Seadog did his best to talk it over with ‘em.  But he says, “They bark funny.”  Sure seem to be well fed, dontchathink?
 
We got to meet some of the other locals.
 
<image044.jpg>
 
In fact, we could pretty much blend right in.
 
<image045.jpg>
 
Other than how you get the lens all smeared up, if you try to count fish with a camera around your neck.  Other than that.  We went to a great fish place for lunch.  Nobody even said anything about Jamie joining us at that corner table, out on the deck.  He was pretty much keeping to himself.  Probably thinking over what all those guys on the dock were barking about.
 
It’s a busy place.  Boats coming in, unloading, and heading back out.
 
<image046.jpg>
 
<image047.jpg>
 
Of course, we took the self-guided boatguy tour.
 
 
<image048.jpg>
 
<image049.jpg>
 
And, I’m pretty sure.  Everybody had a great time of it.
 
<image050.jpg>
 
And, I’m pretty sure.  We’d all do it again.  Maybe you’ll come along, when we do.
 
<image051.jpg>
 
You just don’t wanna get cobwebs on your anchor, there, shipmate…
 
-- 
John (jkohnen@...)
Antisocial behavior is a trait of intelligence in a world full of conformists. (Nikola Tesla)


That movie I was talking about at the Toledo Boat Show

Andrew Linn
 

I was trying to remember a John Cusack movie that featured a boat race. At a key point in the race, the bad guys cut the good guy's halyard (by shooting the line with a crossbow) and John saves the day by tying the line to a little ball and lobbing it through the (unusually large and horizontally mounted) eyebolt at the masthead.

The movie is "One Crazy Summer," a classic 1986 romantic comedy with Cusack, Demi Moore, even Bobcat Goldthwait.

Sadly, I can't find it on either Netflix or Amazon Prime :(
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Crazy_Summer

Re: Six boys. Five little boats. A new place to go. All day to get there.

Richard Green
 

Excellent account and excellent Journey!!  Thanks so much for taking us along.

Rich

On Aug 22, 2019, at 6:24 PM, John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:

Dan from Almostcanada's account of our voyage down to Newport Monday.



-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject:MTF
Date:Thu, 22 Aug 2019 09:19:31 -0700
From:Dan Rogers <DanAshore@...>
To:Dan Rogers <DanAshore@...>


A short hop, down the lazy river.
 
<image035.jpg>
 
Six boys.  Five little boats.  A new place to go.  All day to get there.
 
<image036.jpg>
 
There’s this place, that almost-nobody seems to know about.  There’s another place, that almost-everybody seems to know about.  They drive right on by one, to get to the other.  They line up with the trucks, and the motor homes, and roar on out there.  And, that’s a pity.
<image037.jpg>
 
Our little group of adventurers took the slow lane, and I think, did it right.  You know.  By boat.
 
It’s one of those chunks of water that literally leaves you wondering “what’s around the next bend.”  And, to my mind, that’s what life should be all about.
 
It’s the journey.
 
The Yaquina River leads from a place called Elk City, down to the sea.  Actually, it starts someplace in the trees, uphill from Elk City.  And, just for the record, if there ever was one, there ain’t no City there, now.  I went there, to make sure, a while back.  Anyhow.
 
Today’s voyage of discovery was from about the upper, middle, top half of the river, to just-about-the-bottom.  This is one of those places where precision might matter a lot, when you manage to pass a nav beacon on the wrong side, with a falling tide.  Otherwise, you don’t even have to squint much, to imagine yourself as one of the indigenous people, or maybe a homesteader from a century and a quarter ago.  It’s a pretty un-molested place.
 
Today, it was Bartender, Lazy Jack, Dr. Petra, Eagle, and Walkabout, who with their human and canine accomplices, had the river pretty much to themselves.  We started out before the first cups of coffee were cold, and with a thinning mist.
 
<image038.jpg>
 
Dunno how quite how this estuary came to be.  But, for a “river,” it’s real durn salty.  In fact, the tide simply rips up and down.  Twice a day, the water rides right up to the tree roots.  Twice a day, there are mud banks, and shoals, even oyster shoals.
 
A thriving industrial base depends upon this channel.  The Port of Toledo has a new mondo-travel lift and associated repair yard near the “top” of the stream.  And, here and there on the way to the “bottom,” folks continue to find ways to make a living.
 
<image039.jpg>
 
<image040.jpg>
 
These guys are in the process of creating an enormous pile of oyster shells along the river bank.  I do suspect they’re a lot more interested in the growing, and dredging, and shucking and marketing of those bi-valve crustaceans.  But, it is a pretty impressive mound of a shell midden.  Biggest  I’ve seen this side of, say, Biloxi.  
 
But, the turn-around point for our VoD, is a place that has figured out how to amalgamate a real deal fishing port and processing center with a big deal tourist mecca.  Newport, Oregon.  Quite the place.
 
<image041.jpg>
 
John worked his local boy mojo with the Port Director, and got us a ringside seat.
 
.
 
<image042.jpg>
 
He even managed to get a band of rowdy locals to greet us, as we made the final turn into the fishing boat pier.
 
<image043.jpg>
 
Jamie the Seadog did his best to talk it over with ‘em.  But he says, “They bark funny.”  Sure seem to be well fed, dontchathink?
 
We got to meet some of the other locals.
 
<image044.jpg>
 
In fact, we could pretty much blend right in.
 
<image045.jpg>
 
Other than how you get the lens all smeared up, if you try to count fish with a camera around your neck.  Other than that.  We went to a great fish place for lunch.  Nobody even said anything about Jamie joining us at that corner table, out on the deck.  He was pretty much keeping to himself.  Probably thinking over what all those guys on the dock were barking about.
 
It’s a busy place.  Boats coming in, unloading, and heading back out.
 
<image046.jpg>
 
<image047.jpg>
 
Of course, we took the self-guided boatguy tour.
 
 
<image048.jpg>
 
<image049.jpg>
 
And, I’m pretty sure.  Everybody had a great time of it.
 
<image050.jpg>
 
And, I’m pretty sure.  We’d all do it again.  Maybe you’ll come along, when we do.
 
<image051.jpg>
 
You just don’t wanna get cobwebs on your anchor, there, shipmate…
 
-- 
John (jkohnen@...)
Antisocial behavior is a trait of intelligence in a world full of conformists. (Nikola Tesla)


Six boys. Five little boats. A new place to go. All day to get there.

 

Dan from Almostcanada's account of our voyage down to Newport Monday.



-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: MTF
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 09:19:31 -0700
From: Dan Rogers <DanAshore@...>
To: Dan Rogers <DanAshore@...>


A short hop, down the lazy river.

 

 

Six boys.  Five little boats.  A new place to go.  All day to get there.

 

 

There’s this place, that almost-nobody seems to know about.  There’s another place, that almost-everybody seems to know about.  They drive right on by one, to get to the other.  They line up with the trucks, and the motor homes, and roar on out there.  And, that’s a pity.

 

Our little group of adventurers took the slow lane, and I think, did it right.  You know.  By boat.

 

It’s one of those chunks of water that literally leaves you wondering “what’s around the next bend.”  And, to my mind, that’s what life should be all about.

 

It’s the journey.

 

The Yaquina River leads from a place called Elk City, down to the sea.  Actually, it starts someplace in the trees, uphill from Elk City.  And, just for the record, if there ever was one, there ain’t no City there, now.  I went there, to make sure, a while back.  Anyhow.

 

Today’s voyage of discovery was from about the upper, middle, top half of the river, to just-about-the-bottom.  This is one of those places where precision might matter a lot, when you manage to pass a nav beacon on the wrong side, with a falling tide.  Otherwise, you don’t even have to squint much, to imagine yourself as one of the indigenous people, or maybe a homesteader from a century and a quarter ago.  It’s a pretty un-molested place.

 

Today, it was Bartender, Lazy Jack, Dr. Petra, Eagle, and Walkabout, who with their human and canine accomplices, had the river pretty much to themselves.  We started out before the first cups of coffee were cold, and with a thinning mist.

 

 

Dunno how quite how this estuary came to be.  But, for a “river,” it’s real durn salty.  In fact, the tide simply rips up and down.  Twice a day, the water rides right up to the tree roots.  Twice a day, there are mud banks, and shoals, even oyster shoals.

 

A thriving industrial base depends upon this channel.  The Port of Toledo has a new mondo-travel lift and associated repair yard near the “top” of the stream.  And, here and there on the way to the “bottom,” folks continue to find ways to make a living.

 

 

 

These guys are in the process of creating an enormous pile of oyster shells along the river bank.  I do suspect they’re a lot more interested in the growing, and dredging, and shucking and marketing of those bi-valve crustaceans.  But, it is a pretty impressive mound of a shell midden.  Biggest  I’ve seen this side of, say, Biloxi. 

 

But, the turn-around point for our VoD, is a place that has figured out how to amalgamate a real deal fishing port and processing center with a big deal tourist mecca.  Newport, Oregon.  Quite the place.

 

 

John worked his local boy mojo with the Port Director, and got us a ringside seat.

 

.

 

 

He even managed to get a band of rowdy locals to greet us, as we made the final turn into the fishing boat pier.

 

 

Jamie the Seadog did his best to talk it over with ‘em.  But he says, “They bark funny.”  Sure seem to be well fed, dontchathink?

 

We got to meet some of the other locals.

 

 

In fact, we could pretty much blend right in.

 

 

Other than how you get the lens all smeared up, if you try to count fish with a camera around your neck.  Other than that.  We went to a great fish place for lunch.  Nobody even said anything about Jamie joining us at that corner table, out on the deck.  He was pretty much keeping to himself.  Probably thinking over what all those guys on the dock were barking about.

 

It’s a busy place.  Boats coming in, unloading, and heading back out.

 

 

 

Of course, we took the self-guided boatguy tour.

 

 

 

 

And, I’m pretty sure.  Everybody had a great time of it.

 

 

And, I’m pretty sure.  We’d all do it again.  Maybe you’ll come along, when we do.

 

 

You just don’t wanna get cobwebs on your anchor, there, shipmate…

 

-- 
John (jkohnen@...)
Antisocial behavior is a trait of intelligence in a world full of conformists. (Nikola Tesla)

Re: Another thanks for a Great Show

David Graybeal
 

Indeed. And a big Thank You to Dirt for orchestrating the Sat. evening confab. The pulled pork was delish!!

Another thanks for a Great Show

Electri-Cal
 

All good, all great weather, super vendors and music that worked.  Especially the Curtis Salgado band, let's do that again !!  When you have name bands like that, more people come to listen and stay for the boats as well.  A great way to help raise attendance to the "Must See, Gotta GO Here " level.  Then the venue works as a regional event with people coming much further to spend time and money.  Good on the new boat house too, a worth while addition to the port for events.  Toledo is becoming a real destination, just what the area needs.  A bit of work on having bike and walking trails could finish the destination description off even more, probably good spaces for that at minimal cost locally.

Thanks again for the years best show,  Cal Drake   --  and Surprise !   

Re: Crater Lake boats for sale

dan mulholland
 

I had the pleasure of piloting these boats, or two of them if I recall properly; this was 1971, escaped Florence a few days after high school graduation.   One was under construction on Wizard Island.  440 Chryslers.  I got pretty good at running these boats; people we thought needed "the treatment" were put in the aft seats and spashed in a waterfall.  The story  mentions water skiing, we did take "the lodge girls" out for an evening cruise to Wizard Island. 

Dan

Toledo Wooden Boat Show Photos

 

Hugh from St. Helens posted some photos of the recent show over on the WoodenBoat forum. You'll have to log in to read them:

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?256983-Toledo-Oregon-Wooden-Boat-SHow
--
John <@Jkohnen>
A facility for quotation covers the absence of original thought. (Lord Peter Wimsey)
Sent from some sort of mobile device.

Toledo Show

elaineginader
 

I'd like to give a big shout out to all of the Coots that helped me during the boat show. Especially getting my center board back into the case and the great towing back and forth. You guys are the best.

Elaine 

Re: Crater Lake boats for sale

 

Built from an Atkin design:

http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Articles/CraterLake/

On 8/17/2019 8:32 AM, Claire A wrote:>


Forwarding this to help get the word out...
cheers
and
hoping to see you all at our Annual Potluck and meeting at Mystery Bay,
September 21st! Bring your boat and share her story with us.
Claire

Stay /afloat/ with /current/ events....visit Traditional Small Craft
Association - Puget Sound's website:
http://www.tscapuget.org
Claire Acord


---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: *Kim Isaacson k.b.isaacson@...

The RiversWest Small Craft organization in Portland has two hulls that
were formerly tour boats used at Crater Lake National Park. After some
years of storage and contemplating restoration, RiversWest is now
looking for a new home for these craft.
http://www.riverswest.org/craterlake.html.

Beautiful boats for the right person or organization.
--
John (@Jkohnen)
I would have girls regard themselves not as adjectives but as nouns. (Elizabeth Cady Stanton)

Re: Rich visit to Toledo, Honda 2

elaineginader
 

Hi Rich, 

I'm sorry to have missed you at the Toledo show and I agree with you that a long shaft wont be suitable for my boat. Thank you for bringing it just in case. I didn't set the mast up because of the length of it (21') and I didn't do it while it was on the trailer. To much to handle when it's on the water. Next time though.

On Sun, Aug 18, 2019, 3:50 PM Richard Green <chaos5@...> wrote:
Elaine, missed you at the Toledo show, brought the motor home again.  I noticed your boat was not set up.  If you need help/information I’d be happy to help.  45 years of sailing may have taught me a thing or two about rigging.  

If the motor was to be for your boat at the show, I think the fact that the motor is a long shaft makes it less than suitable for your transom.  We can look at that, talk about that over the phone or via email as suits you.

Rich

On Aug 16, 2019, at 11:27 AM, elaineginader <elaineginader@...> wrote:

Yes this will be great.

On Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 7:19 AM Richard Green <chaos5@...> wrote:
Elaine,  a family thing has come up unexpectedly, is Sunday ok for bringing the motor?  Sunday morning?

Rich



Re: Rich visit to Toledo, Honda 2

Richard Green
 

Elaine, missed you at the Toledo show, brought the motor home again.  I noticed your boat was not set up.  If you need help/information I’d be happy to help.  45 years of sailing may have taught me a thing or two about rigging.  

If the motor was to be for your boat at the show, I think the fact that the motor is a long shaft makes it less than suitable for your transom.  We can look at that, talk about that over the phone or via email as suits you.

Rich

On Aug 16, 2019, at 11:27 AM, elaineginader <elaineginader@...> wrote:

Yes this will be great.

On Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 7:19 AM Richard Green <chaos5@...> wrote:
Elaine,  a family thing has come up unexpectedly, is Sunday ok for bringing the motor?  Sunday morning?

Rich



[porttownsendsmallboats] Crater Lake boats for sale

Claire Acord
 

Forwarding this to help get the word out...
cheers
and
hoping to see you all at our Annual Potluck and meeting at Mystery Bay, September 21st!  Bring your boat and share her story with us.
Claire

Stay afloat with current events....visit Traditional Small Craft Association - Puget Sound's website:
http://www.tscapuget.org
Claire Acord


---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Kim Isaacson k.b.isaacson@... [porttownsendsmallboats] <porttownsendsmallboats@...>
Date: Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 9:28 PM
Subject: [porttownsendsmallboats] Crater Lake boats for sale
To: <porttownsendsmallboats@...>




The RiversWest Small Craft organization in Portland has two hulls that were formerly tour boats used at Crater Lake National Park.  After some years of storage and contemplating restoration, RiversWest is now looking for a new home for these craft.  http://www.riverswest.org/craterlake.html.  

Beautiful boats for the right person or organization.


__._,_.___

Posted by: Kim Isaacson <k.b.isaacson@...>


No flaming, cursing, politics, religion or public mopery. Please be polite. New members have their messages moderated until after their first message is posted. Information about the Coots and their events can be found at http://www.pocketyachters.com/




__,_._,___

Re: Boat's sold

Andrew Linn
 

Cool.  At the show now. Talk to you later

On Aug 16, 2019 9:52 AM, "Tom Sorensen via Groups.Io" <tdsoren@...> wrote:
No, family stuff going on.  We can make a time to talk/show her to you some time soon though.

Tom

On Aug 15, 2019, at 4:29 PM, Andrew Linn <alinn@...> wrote:

I would LOVE to talk to you abut her. Will you be at the boat show this weekend?

On 8/15/2019 8:30 AM, Tom Sorensen via Groups.Io wrote:
I have a SF Pelican gathering dust in my garage Andy.  Interested?

Tom

On Jul 27, 2019, at 8:02 AM, Andrew Linn <alinn@...> wrote:

May it bring him great joy and happiness. :)

I'm not getting off the water, I'm just transitioning to something lighter/smaller. I'm going to build a tricked out TikTak this weekend.

On 7/26/2019 11:40 PM, John Kohnen wrote:
One of Us got a darn good deal! :o)

On 7/26/2019 1:37 PM, Andrew wrote:
Some day I'll learn how to price correctly :)  Boat's been sold. I won't reveal the winner, but he's* one of us.


*normally I would have used a gender ambiguous pronoun, but come on, we're Coots. Using "he" makes it just as mysterious, maybe more so, than using "the person"










Re: Rich visit to Toledo, Honda 2

elaineginader
 

Yes this will be great.


On Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 7:19 AM Richard Green <chaos5@...> wrote:
Elaine,  a family thing has come up unexpectedly, is Sunday ok for bringing the motor?  Sunday morning?

Rich


Re: Boat's sold

Tom Sorensen
 

No, family stuff going on.  We can make a time to talk/show her to you some time soon though.

Tom

On Aug 15, 2019, at 4:29 PM, Andrew Linn <alinn@...> wrote:

I would LOVE to talk to you abut her. Will you be at the boat show this weekend?

On 8/15/2019 8:30 AM, Tom Sorensen via Groups.Io wrote:
I have a SF Pelican gathering dust in my garage Andy.  Interested?

Tom

On Jul 27, 2019, at 8:02 AM, Andrew Linn <alinn@...> wrote:

May it bring him great joy and happiness. :)

I'm not getting off the water, I'm just transitioning to something lighter/smaller. I'm going to build a tricked out TikTak this weekend.

On 7/26/2019 11:40 PM, John Kohnen wrote:
One of Us got a darn good deal! :o)

On 7/26/2019 1:37 PM, Andrew wrote:
Some day I'll learn how to price correctly :)  Boat's been sold. I won't reveal the winner, but he's* one of us.


*normally I would have used a gender ambiguous pronoun, but come on, we're Coots. Using "he" makes it just as mysterious, maybe more so, than using "the person"









Re: Boat's sold

Tom Sorensen
 

12ft original design.

On Aug 15, 2019, at 1:22 PM, Case Turner <dirtsailor2003@...> wrote:

What size pelican? I may be interested if Andy is not.

Case

Sent from not here

On Aug 15, 2019, at 8:30 AM, Tom Sorensen via Groups.Io <tdsoren@...> wrote:

I have a SF Pelican gathering dust in my garage Andy.  Interested?

Tom

On Jul 27, 2019, at 8:02 AM, Andrew Linn <alinn@...> wrote:

May it bring him great joy and happiness. :)

I'm not getting off the water, I'm just transitioning to something lighter/smaller. I'm going to build a tricked out TikTak this weekend.

On 7/26/2019 11:40 PM, John Kohnen wrote:
One of Us got a darn good deal! :o)

On 7/26/2019 1:37 PM, Andrew wrote:
Some day I'll learn how to price correctly :)  Boat's been sold. I won't reveal the winner, but he's* one of us.


*normally I would have used a gender ambiguous pronoun, but come on, we're Coots. Using "he" makes it just as mysterious, maybe more so, than using "the person"