Date   

Re: September Messabout?

Lee Tapper
 

Kalama might also be a port of call.  In 2019 they invested a lot in improving the area and its quite nice. McMenamins also has a hotel/restaurant there which is good and has outdoor dining.


Almost tempted to go Backward

Electri-Cal
 

When Surprise was first built, before even OR stickered, Myles Swift and I snuck on Dexter, and on Fern ridge, almost got caught by the marine cops.  The point is that even without gps at the time, we had a good time.  One boat, two guys, two batteries, and a 50 lb Minn Kota clamp on motor.  We turned way faster, made decent time, and had zero problems.  The next step was trying to get to planing speed, which was a fruitless effort because it's not that kind of boat, really.  My design was pretty good, but overpowering with the heavy twin motors could have been the wrong way to go, right up front.

I could have not needed more than the 12 volt MK 50, and two batteries, saved a lot of complexity, system service, cost out of pocket, certainly weight in he water.  Now six years later, with the latest motors, and improved batteries that could have been even more doable.  Might be able to do that at a better price, service ability, and way lighter weight.  I see other boats doing that very well.  The extra power may help with tidewaters, but reducing the weight by 4 batteries and the twin motors, leaving only two batts., so lighter power train by maybe 400 pounds might do that too.   Removing all underwater motor drag and skegs, could do a lot for handling.

A case could be made similar to the guy who has a great speedy little skiff, that does everything pretty well.  Then he adds a fore deck for storage, side rails for spray, a cuddy for weather, a bunk for comfort, remote steering, trolling motor, and more gear.  Shoot, now it doesn't get out of its own way, the wind blows it around the lake, so on comes a bigger motor, now the hull sinks its butt, and shortens the water line, plus extra batteries, gas tanks, to push the extra weight.  The cabin allows more range, so more gas again, battery needs for lights.  Pretty soon it won't be fun, too much servicing, so you build or buy another boat, and off the whole thing goes again, except now we're older, somewhat smarter, but less mobile, so the cruise of life and boat ownership continues.  I had what, 5 - 6 or more boats at once, being down to one boat chafes a bit.  Now I want another boat with a bigger motor to get on plane, aargh !!   What I should like is a head adjustment to accept that less really is more..   What I can deal with, is adjusting what I have back a bit.  The Twins stay cause they are there, the better batteries get dialed back to 4, cause that's lighter, and the trips are day or tent camps, or motel.  Life is good, boat on !!!

The twins are almost rebuilt, after that it's time to get back into water again, See Ya There,  ---- Cal                  

  





Re: Coots Thursday Lunch at Fern Ridge (was: Re: [Todays Aug. 31 st. Wondering if there will be a Fern Ridge Picnic on Sept. 2 nd. ??)

Electri-Cal
 

That will be a good idea, I let Charlie know, at our usual Tuesday breakfast at Brails coffee shop on Willamette.  However I was notified that the guy will be here Thursday sometime, to hook up our electrics for the new gate.  Better lighting, and better access for us is the idea.  I also got the armature cleaned up, both Charlie, and my local machinist said the coils look good, so i'm ready to fix this soon as possible.  I watched a tuning video for MK motors last night, among other stuff, good ideas in most cases.

Have a great time at the lake, if I get done before or around noon I'll stop out. -------  See Ya,  Cal


Re: September Messabout?

Mark Neuhaus
 

Hi all,

I contacted Allen Bennett in Cathlamet about meeting up there for a weekend with Coots who couldn't get away during the week, and he alerted me to the fact that the salmon fishing season may make it quite the busy place.

So, are you folks expecting a weekend gathering of boats and social messing about or is it going to be a cruise for those of us who can get away for a week? If it's a weekend meet up of boats, will that be in the middle of a cruise or the beginning or end of a cruise? I'm free to come and go whenever, but maybe other interested participants aren't so lucky?

Mark



Re: September Messabout?

Mark Neuhaus
 

Hi Earl,

On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 9:20 PM cherrill boissonou <cboissonou@...> wrote:

A bit of fog......some rain......a little rough chop in one of the passages caused by wind....  , but nothing daunting.

Sounds good.  And if we keep it casual enough, a short day ducking out of the weather would make things easier.
 
One does have to keep an eye on the shipping traffic as it moves quickly and can appear quite suddenly from around a curve: DON’T want to cross in front of them without plenty of lead time.

Agreed.
 
Dr. Petra is operating on 9.9hp and cruises easily between 4.5 & 5.5kn. with occasional Bursts  of 6.5+in.

I figured that would probably be the normal speed of most Coot boats.
 
I hope you find this info helpful and I look forward to going on the trip again.

Indeed I did. Thanks much.  

Mark 


Re: Upgrades

Case Turner
 

Looking good Brian! Nice addition to an already fine looking boat. 

Case

Sent from not here

On Aug 31, 2021, at 6:29 PM, James Gage <jamesgage637@...> wrote:

     Finally after 11 years the campcruiser gets a cabin floor!
Also have been crafting a new trailering/storage cover!
     Cabin floor is clear vertical grain Doug Fir and salvage western cedar planking from an old house from 
Vernionia, Oregon (1986). 
     Protective cover is sunbrella marine in oyster and is from SAILRITE. Cloth is waterproof and has UV blocker in which manifacture claims a 10 year life in full sun exposure.
This time I'm installing 2 vents to help with heat buildup, which will also act as a ridge to eliminate pooling.
Brian G.
<Screenshot_20210830-225706_Gallery.jpg>
<Screenshot_20210830-225639_Gallery.jpg>
<Screenshot_20210828-150130_Gallery.jpg>
<20210827_192830.jpg>

--
Dirt


Upgrades

Brian Gage
 

     Finally after 11 years the campcruiser gets a cabin floor!
Also have been crafting a new trailering/storage cover!
     Cabin floor is clear vertical grain Doug Fir and salvage western cedar planking from an old house from 
Vernionia, Oregon (1986). 
     Protective cover is sunbrella marine in oyster and is from SAILRITE. Cloth is waterproof and has UV blocker in which manifacture claims a 10 year life in full sun exposure.
This time I'm installing 2 vents to help with heat buildup, which will also act as a ridge to eliminate pooling.
Brian G.


Re: Just chatted with Minn kota tech guy

Electri-Cal
 

I stand corrected, brushless  motors are most likely to last longer, and put out more power so thats great.  I also am well and truly convinced that ther are better batteries available with higher output, and lower weight.  No contest gentlemen, as to quality.

Where I have a problem, and not so unusual  is that I have less time to do stuff.  I Don't  do multi day trips anymore, or without a motel.  Just not as spry, nor is Surprise a camper type of cruiser.  Day trips are fine, then I recharge both boat and me.

So, I just don't  need the latest and most speendy components to do that.  I have extra batteries that I'm  removing to save weight.    But they are Not more than125 bucks each for a pair.  Got a decent 4 pack for 500, plus the motors for 800  thats enough expense for my uses. Say 1500 to 2000, that's enough for my power needs, many get along for lots less.  Gas also has more range, but at several known costs.  No problemo different strokes, better options with, more room, younger bones, extra pesos and ability to go further.  I figur I'm  doing OK for about 83, just getting on with getting fu

Later Coots,   best wishes,   Cal   

ps, motors ready, parts coming, new keels, what's  not to like..   
 . 


Re: Just chatted with Minn kota tech guy

 

Brushless motors are mechanically dead simple. The only wearing parts are the bearings and shaft seals. The motors themselves are pretty darn simple too, especially permanent magnet motors; it's the electronics to control them that get complicated, but that stuff's not expensive to manufacture once it's figured out. I guess Torqeedos are expensive because they can get it. <g> Joe Grez's EP Carries are expensive because he's a small outfit without benefit of the economics of scale. He says he wished he could make his motors inexpensively enough to sell cheap.

Simeon Baldwin had the smallest Torqeedo on his Scamp, Noddy, for the Salish 200. Did fine with two battery packs, even though there was a fair amount of motoring. He said the motor and extra battery pack cost a bit over $2,000. About twice what a 2 hp. outboard would have cost.

Replacing the armature of a brushless motor oughta be a breeze, since there are no brushes to deal with.

On 8/30/2021 5:15 PM, Electri-Cal wrote:
Thanks Myles, I was going by what I heard from a Minn Kota tech, maybe he was biased, -- or probably so.  I know the brushless are more expensive, some look radically so, but that might be justified in service life.  I wonder how it works to replace a prop shaft, probably as easy as a MK, but I might have to look that up sometime.
...
--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
I have never seen a situation so dismal that a policeman couldn't make it worse. (Brendan Behan)
--
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https://www.avg.com


Coots Thursday Lunch at Fern Ridge (was: Re: [Todays Aug. 31 st. Wondering if there will be a Fern Ridge Picnic on Sept. 2 nd. ??)

 

Yes, let's have a Coots lunch at Richardson Park Thursday at 1:00. At a table near the docks.

On 8/31/2021 6:41 AM, Electri-Cal wrote:
Just curious as to packing up for a lunch at Fern Ridge, or if another idea is floating more water ??  I should have more info on my MK addiction after today, I may still order new armatures, after deep consultations.
--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
If you can't say anything good about someone, sit right here. (Alice RooseveltLongworth)
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com


Todays Aug. 31 st. Wondering if there will be a Fern Ridge Picnic on Sept. 2 nd. ??

Electri-Cal
 

Just curious as to packing up for a lunch at Fern Ridge, or if another idea is floating more water ??  I should have more info on my MK addiction after today, I may still order new armatures, after deep consultations. 

Later,   Cal


Re: September Messabout?

cherrill boissonou
 

Mark, 
Dr Petra and I accompanied Bo Neil and Dan Mulholland on Glencannon last year and we had basically smooth going. A bit of fog......some rain......a little rough chop in one of the passages caused by wind....  , but nothing daunting. One does have to keep an eye on the shipping traffic as it moves quickly and can appear quite suddenly from around a curve: DON’T want to cross in front of them without plenty of lead time.
Dr. Petra is operating on 9.9hp and cruises easily between 4.5 & 5.5kn. with occasional 
Bursts  of 6.5+in. Bo had to run ahead at times to keep from flattening the cam on his V8. Bar Tender, but most of the time he stayed with me and I was able keep 5.5 to 6 kn average speed. I hope you find this info helpful and I look forward to going on the trip again.
Earl🧙‍♂️🌝⚓️



On Aug 30, 2021, at 11:49 AM, Mark Neuhaus <moonlitturtle1934@...> wrote:

Thanks much, Myles for the information.  It would be nice if Earl could post some observations from last year's trip, especially since it's the same season we might be doing this.  I'd be curious how the wind and tides affected them.

On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 8:17 AM Myles Twete <matwete@...> wrote:

 Even if I could count on being able to and allowed to charge my pack at Cathlamet, I’d still need to bring a genset and at least the one charger. 


I believe it was one of the last gaterings we had in Cathlamet that Harvey brought his electric cruiser up from Astoria, spending a night in Steamboat Slough before arriving.  He moored with us for a whie and then moved over to a dock with electric power for re-charging.  You'd have to contact him to see if he had to pay or just did it on the sly.

Here's what I wrote to Elaine as a possible itinerary.  But nothing's set in stone. Maybe some would rather drive to Cathlamet on Friday and on Monday, come upstream for a night before returning to Cathlamet and heading home? Or come a day earlier and join up at Walker Island float?  We need to make sure we all have each other's cell phone numbers if we are going to try to meet up on the water. 

Wednesday at Sand Island
Thursday at Walker Island Float 
Friday at Cathlamet
Saturday at Cathlamet
Sunday at Cathlamet
Monday at Walker Island Float
Tuesday at Sand Island
Thursday back home

But I’m game… J  I’ve been wanting to make it down that way for a long time.  On generator power alone, the boat gets about 16mpg at 4-5kts as I recall.


It will be a new experience for me, for sure, so it will certainly be better to do it with others.  

Mark


Re: Just chatted with Minn kota tech guy

Electri-Cal
 

Thanks Myles, I was going by what I heard from a Minn Kota tech, maybe he was biased, -- or probably so.  I know the brushless are more expensive, some look radically so, but that might be justified in service life.  I wonder how it works to replace a prop shaft, probably as easy as a MK, but I might have to look that up sometime.  I need to refocus on getting my motors ready as the washers, and some parts are in the mail today.  I do wonder what happens with a solid state non brush motor if it gets too many amps by accident, get older, or catch on stuff underwater, etc., are they indestructible, or can they just stop, or doesn't that happen?? 

Charlie Vader is going to check the rotors and windings tomorrow morning.  I JUST NOW pulled the port shaft (non working ) and the blue sealant on the front is a darker blue to grey color duller than the starboard shaft, which sorta worked but could be slowed by hand.  Here's to wondering what the color ought to be when new??  I'm beginning to think that might be a more or less problem, and just a fresh turning might not get those working again.  If it looks not so hot to Charlie, I will order new ones of course.  I should have pulled both together up front, oh well.  Maybe I'll call the MK tech tomorrow, and see what he says, I sure don't want to do this twice.

Thanks Myles, looking into this, ----   Cal


I also want to see how the new guards will work out, or deflectors, or motor protectors as one sees them.  The others were put on in a rush, but worked sooo !!!  New ones cool looking, now if all goes as planned I can turn easier, a good deal.   I had to jigsaw the old ones off at the angle brackets to remove the nose cones.  New fresh epoxy coming in soon.  Could do tests without them at first, but I'm chicken with those motors..



Re: September Messabout?

Brandon
 

We were in our apartment in Longview the Saturday of the Cathlamet classic and wooden boat show. Virginia gave me a couple of hours off so I could zip down to check it out. It was fun. Nice folks. Wish I could have taken my skerry down and spent the day. As it was, I was able to see all the boats and have a good visit with one of the local rowers in about 20 minutes. Inline image

Inline image






Re: September Messabout?

Mark Neuhaus
 

Thanks much, Myles for the information.  It would be nice if Earl could post some observations from last year's trip, especially since it's the same season we might be doing this.  I'd be curious how the wind and tides affected them.

On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 8:17 AM Myles Twete <matwete@...> wrote:

 Even if I could count on being able to and allowed to charge my pack at Cathlamet, I’d still need to bring a genset and at least the one charger. 


I believe it was one of the last gaterings we had in Cathlamet that Harvey brought his electric cruiser up from Astoria, spending a night in Steamboat Slough before arriving.  He moored with us for a whie and then moved over to a dock with electric power for re-charging.  You'd have to contact him to see if he had to pay or just did it on the sly.

Here's what I wrote to Elaine as a possible itinerary.  But nothing's set in stone. Maybe some would rather drive to Cathlamet on Friday and on Monday, come upstream for a night before returning to Cathlamet and heading home? Or come a day earlier and join up at Walker Island float?  We need to make sure we all have each other's cell phone numbers if we are going to try to meet up on the water. 

Wednesday at Sand Island
Thursday at Walker Island Float 
Friday at Cathlamet
Saturday at Cathlamet
Sunday at Cathlamet
Monday at Walker Island Float
Tuesday at Sand Island
Thursday back home

But I’m game… J  I’ve been wanting to make it down that way for a long time.  On generator power alone, the boat gets about 16mpg at 4-5kts as I recall.


It will be a new experience for me, for sure, so it will certainly be better to do it with others.  

Mark


Re: Just chatted with Minn kota tech guy

Myles Twete
 

I think you’re looking at this a bit wrong Cal.

If the Torqueedo is “non-brush”, then it is truly brushless.

A brushless motor has no wearing elements except the bearings and seals.

So, if brush wear is the primary time-to-service factor, that factor is gone with a brushless.  If that doubles, triples or quintuples the time to service, then you shouldn’t be looking at throwing the motor out---the brushless should far outlast the brush motor.  Having said that, my 2003 ETEK brush motor still powers The Reach Of Tide.  Having said that, I am on my 3rd set of brushes AND new sets are not available, so I need to literally throw away or sell this one before it becomes a boat anchor.

 

From: oregoncoots@groups.io [mailto:oregoncoots@groups.io] On Behalf Of Electri-Cal
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2021 7:08 AM
To: oregoncoots@groups.io
Subject: [oregoncoots] Just chatted with Minn kota tech guy

 

Very interesting! Andrew got my "full boat" order cancelled, and we put together what I needed to redo the twins.  Yes, the Q armature is the upgraded one as I found out earlier.  The other parts from the list are good except for one that he recommended I replace part of not the whole thing, saved $$ there.  The cost got shaved from $ 479.00 to around $ 100.00  and that included a new set of brushes just in case.  I will have to have the armature cleaned, not a big deal locally.  A lot cheaper than replacing major parts on many motor items.

The reason for the slippage is carbon build up, for motors used as prime propulsion, Andrew suggested stopping for a few minutes about every hour or so to let the motors cool down.  That saves brush life, and the time between cleanings gets longer.  Another point he brought up is that MK is sticking to brushed motors for the present.  The corporate view has always been to keep it simple and repairable.

The Totquedoos, and newer "Non" brushed motors are not serviceable by normal means, or with a phone call for parts, like I did.  In most cases you throw the motor out, or replace the whole thing as designed,  That creates a lot more waste, and expensive rebuilds.  My cost of $50.00 per motor should last another 8 --12 years as designed, full power use is shorter of course.  The call was very helpful, and I feel better about doing this, and saving decent bucks, by getting accurate information without a sales pitch.  Yes, i'm glad I have the latest armatures, and now the parts are coming to do a better rebuild job, on any MK motor.

Thanks Coots, hope this "just now" info, helps others with these motors, ----   Cal


Re: September Messabout?

Myles Twete
 

I’ve done the trip to the Cathlamet Boat Fest twice, starting at Caterpillar Island below Kelley Pointe.  The trip downstream we did in 2 days, anchoring behind one off the islands just downstream of Rainier.  Staying a night at Sand Island would be nice also and would make the trip more leisure.  In 2005, as I recall, the total downstream cruise time (~45miles) was about 11 hours.  I think I used about 100amp-hours (36v) from my battery pack and 220amp-hours from the genset, burning about 1.5gallons of gas.  The trip upstream used about 2x the energy.  Instead of 1 battery charger at 20amps, I used 2 of them (40amps) and barely made it upstream to Rainier to tie up for the night---needed about 55amps just to make progress against the current, rolling into the marina about 10pm and was more than 200amp-hours down on the battery pack.  Took 2 days going upstream also, with Sunday being a slow slog from Rainier, fighting the tide.  Best to add a day and only go with the winds and tides.  The afternoon winds tend to be high and from the NW.

 

On that trip, I rolled into my marina having drawn more than 300amp-hours from my pack.  These days, I have a lot more capacity in my pack (700amp-hours at 42v).  I can easily do the downstream trip solely on electric.  Even if I could count on being able to and allowed to charge my pack at Cathlamet, I’d still need to bring a genset and at least the one charger.  But I’m game… J  I’ve been wanting to make it down that way for a long time.  On generator power alone, the boat gets about 16mpg at 4-5kts as I recall.

 

-MylesT

 

From: oregoncoots@groups.io [mailto:oregoncoots@groups.io] On Behalf Of Mark Neuhaus
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2021 8:42 PM
To: oregoncoots@groups.io
Subject: Re: [oregoncoots] September Messabout?

 

Hi Elaine,

 

On Sun, Aug 29, 2021 at 7:10 PM elaineginader <elaineginader@...> wrote:

 

Is one of the stops Sand Island park?

 

Could be.  As of now, dates, destination(s), stops are all to be determined.  :-)

 

I can see it as the gathering and starting place for the trip downstream. If we want to be at Cathlamet for the weekend, we would need one or two nights to get there.  The same for returning.  You free for that long?

 

I'm attaching a jpg satellite image of the river with waypoints shown that I've gathered for my database project.  The PDF of mileage charts to Cathlamet was sent in an earlier email.  Between those, one can get an idea of what's along the way and how far between the places.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Mark

 


Re: Just chatted with Minn kota tech guy

Jim Young
 

Thanks Cal, even us "fringe Coots" find this all very interesting.


On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 8:08 AM Electri-Cal <calboats@...> wrote:
Very interesting! Andrew got my "full boat" order cancelled, and we put together what I needed to redo the twins.  Yes, the Q armature is the upgraded one as I found out earlier.  The other parts from the list are good except for one that he recommended I replace part of not the whole thing, saved $$ there.  The cost got shaved from $ 479.00 to around $ 100.00  and that included a new set of brushes just in case.  I will have to have the armature cleaned, not a big deal locally.  A lot cheaper than replacing major parts on many motor items.

The reason for the slippage is carbon build up, for motors used as prime propulsion, Andrew suggested stopping for a few minutes about every hour or so to let the motors cool down.  That saves brush life, and the time between cleanings gets longer.  Another point he brought up is that MK is sticking to brushed motors for the present.  The corporate view has always been to keep it simple and repairable.

The Totquedoos, and newer "Non" brushed motors are not serviceable by normal means, or with a phone call for parts, like I did.  In most cases you throw the motor out, or replace the whole thing as designed,  That creates a lot more waste, and expensive rebuilds.  My cost of $50.00 per motor should last another 8 --12 years as designed, full power use is shorter of course.  The call was very helpful, and I feel better about doing this, and saving decent bucks, by getting accurate information without a sales pitch.  Yes, i'm glad I have the latest armatures, and now the parts are coming to do a better rebuild job, on any MK motor.

Thanks Coots, hope this "just now" info, helps others with these motors, ----   Cal



--
Jim Young,
mostly retired
Somers, MT


Just chatted with Minn kota tech guy

Electri-Cal
 

Very interesting! Andrew got my "full boat" order cancelled, and we put together what I needed to redo the twins.  Yes, the Q armature is the upgraded one as I found out earlier.  The other parts from the list are good except for one that he recommended I replace part of not the whole thing, saved $$ there.  The cost got shaved from $ 479.00 to around $ 100.00  and that included a new set of brushes just in case.  I will have to have the armature cleaned, not a big deal locally.  A lot cheaper than replacing major parts on many motor items.

The reason for the slippage is carbon build up, for motors used as prime propulsion, Andrew suggested stopping for a few minutes about every hour or so to let the motors cool down.  That saves brush life, and the time between cleanings gets longer.  Another point he brought up is that MK is sticking to brushed motors for the present.  The corporate view has always been to keep it simple and repairable.

The Totquedoos, and newer "Non" brushed motors are not serviceable by normal means, or with a phone call for parts, like I did.  In most cases you throw the motor out, or replace the whole thing as designed,  That creates a lot more waste, and expensive rebuilds.  My cost of $50.00 per motor should last another 8 --12 years as designed, full power use is shorter of course.  The call was very helpful, and I feel better about doing this, and saving decent bucks, by getting accurate information without a sales pitch.  Yes, i'm glad I have the latest armatures, and now the parts are coming to do a better rebuild job, on any MK motor.

Thanks Coots, hope this "just now" info, helps others with these motors, ----   Cal


Re: September Messabout?

Mark Neuhaus
 

Hi Elaine,

On Sun, Aug 29, 2021 at 7:10 PM elaineginader <elaineginader@...> wrote:

Is one of the stops Sand Island park?

Could be.  As of now, dates, destination(s), stops are all to be determined.  :-)

I can see it as the gathering and starting place for the trip downstream. If we want to be at Cathlamet for the weekend, we would need one or two nights to get there.  The same for returning.  You free for that long?

I'm attaching a jpg satellite image of the river with waypoints shown that I've gathered for my database project.  The PDF of mileage charts to Cathlamet was sent in an earlier email.  Between those, one can get an idea of what's along the way and how far between the places.

Hope this helps.

Mark

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