Date   

Re: Wiring question, about 24 volt and "bridges"

Myles Twete
 

Ditto.

If this round gauge is a descendant of the Link-10, which was a descendant of the E-Meter (designed/built in Arlington, Wa.), there’s definitely a need for an external shunt.  Worse, to the extent that these new round multi-function gauges (Amps/Volts/Amp-Hours, etc.) are knock-offs without a redesign, beware that both the E-Meter and Link-10 meters have a design flaw whereby the current monitoring (and A-H) features die a quick death if power is not applied in the right sequence to the inputs.  I didn’t want to risk it, so I did what others did and mounted a connector at the back end so that all the connections could be connected simultaneously, which works.  Still, I ultimately bricked at least one of these…

So hopefully these new Amphour gauges out there have been made more robust.

 

-MT

 

From: oregoncoots@groups.io [mailto:oregoncoots@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jove Lachman-Curl
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2020 9:47 AM
To: oregoncoots@groups.io
Subject: Re: [oregoncoots] Wiring question, about 24 volt and "bridges"

 

Hey Cal,

Can you see us images and a website where we can look up the Guage in question other wise this is really hard to give input on.

I can say that current is usually measured via voltage drop across a calibrated low resistance resistor (typically called a shunt). That might be integral to your unit, and if so there would be fairly large terminals on your Guage to match the current.

You will not have much success running full amps through thin instrument wires but im sure you know that.

 

On Sun, Aug 30, 2020, 8:39 AM Electri-Cal <calboats@...> wrote:

Probably Myles Tweete has this, but others may wonder about this.  I just got in a new round gauge for Surprise. A dual amp and volt type, that should show all I need in a small package.  The info shows it will handle decent numbers of current, and also shows on several web sites where it is hooked up.  I'm not fond of running the full 24 volts through the wires, even though the draw is miniscule.  There has got to be more to thisthan i'm seeing ??

All my other gauges hook through the twin bus bars, with drop screws on each end so full power drops 24 volt to 12 volt.  I have fused blocks for these 12 v, accessories, lights, radio etc.  This new guage does not show that bus bar anyplace in the on line circuit, several I liiked at do not show any bus bar>>.  How does that work??  Do I just run light instrument wires at full power??  Is there another voltage drop bar, that  is assumed to be there??  Do I just connect to the pack 24 v. and it is handled inside the guage??  Hook to the regular 12v. take off, and the variable senses what is required??  maybe my confusion is because I haven't  done a mini//multi guage like this I recall.    Or last, just touch the terminals and hope the guage hangs together.

My normal inclination is to just visually double tha amp draw, but it was suggested I need to have the right numbers on the guage.   I figured colored tape at correct cruise speeds was good enough, but I bought tha guage since it is a lighted colored digital one.

Anybody with the right info on this ??  Thanks,  Cal



   


Re: Wiring question, about 24 volt and "bridges"

Jove Lachman-Curl
 

Hey Cal,
Can you see us images and a website where we can look up the Guage in question other wise this is really hard to give input on.
I can say that current is usually measured via voltage drop across a calibrated low resistance resistor (typically called a shunt). That might be integral to your unit, and if so there would be fairly large terminals on your Guage to match the current.
You will not have much success running full amps through thin instrument wires but im sure you know that.

On Sun, Aug 30, 2020, 8:39 AM Electri-Cal <calboats@...> wrote:
Probably Myles Tweete has this, but others may wonder about this.  I just got in a new round gauge for Surprise. A dual amp and volt type, that should show all I need in a small package.  The info shows it will handle decent numbers of current, and also shows on several web sites where it is hooked up.  I'm not fond of running the full 24 volts through the wires, even though the draw is miniscule.  There has got to be more to thisthan i'm seeing ??

All my other gauges hook through the twin bus bars, with drop screws on each end so full power drops 24 volt to 12 volt.  I have fused blocks for these 12 v, accessories, lights, radio etc.  This new guage does not show that bus bar anyplace in the on line circuit, several I liiked at do not show any bus bar>>.  How does that work??  Do I just run light instrument wires at full power??  Is there another voltage drop bar, that  is assumed to be there??  Do I just connect to the pack 24 v. and it is handled inside the guage??  Hook to the regular 12v. take off, and the variable senses what is required??  maybe my confusion is because I haven't  done a mini//multi guage like this I recall.    Or last, just touch the terminals and hope the guage hangs together.

My normal inclination is to just visually double tha amp draw, but it was suggested I need to have the right numbers on the guage.   I figured colored tape at correct cruise speeds was good enough, but I bought tha guage since it is a lighted colored digital one.

Anybody with the right info on this ??  Thanks,  Cal



   


Wiring question, about 24 volt and "bridges"

Electri-Cal
 

Probably Myles Tweete has this, but others may wonder about this.  I just got in a new round gauge for Surprise. A dual amp and volt type, that should show all I need in a small package.  The info shows it will handle decent numbers of current, and also shows on several web sites where it is hooked up.  I'm not fond of running the full 24 volts through the wires, even though the draw is miniscule.  There has got to be more to thisthan i'm seeing ??

All my other gauges hook through the twin bus bars, with drop screws on each end so full power drops 24 volt to 12 volt.  I have fused blocks for these 12 v, accessories, lights, radio etc.  This new guage does not show that bus bar anyplace in the on line circuit, several I liiked at do not show any bus bar>>.  How does that work??  Do I just run light instrument wires at full power??  Is there another voltage drop bar, that  is assumed to be there??  Do I just connect to the pack 24 v. and it is handled inside the guage??  Hook to the regular 12v. take off, and the variable senses what is required??  maybe my confusion is because I haven't  done a mini//multi guage like this I recall.    Or last, just touch the terminals and hope the guage hangs together.

My normal inclination is to just visually double tha amp draw, but it was suggested I need to have the right numbers on the guage.   I figured colored tape at correct cruise speeds was good enough, but I bought tha guage since it is a lighted colored digital one.

Anybody with the right info on this ??  Thanks,  Cal



   


Re: Batteries again, Upgrade

johnacord
 

....dig deep (sigh) enough and you can find the info!  The Interstate Group 27 is rated at 88AH.  So the run times a bit less, 96min/225min.

Using AGM instead of flooded cell will give you more.  My Lifeline battery has a peukert of 1.12,
so at 25A ==> 37A effective, and at 12.5A ==> 17A effective, for 1.5x run time.

John A


Re: September Columbia Cruise

Mark Neuhaus
 

I stopped by Fred's Marina yesterday to ask about fishing crowds and slips for the week of the cruise.  A fisherman said that fall salmon season on the Columbia was something like three days this weekend and one or two later this week. So it should be no problem launching and parking at Fred's.  The harbor master seemed to think slips would be no problem at that time either. I saw plenty of spaces open.

The fee for launching is ten bucks.  Ends up, if you leave your rig there, that's ten bucks a day. I asked about any discounts and he said he might be able to do a group discount if someone wanted to call or email him. Sorry, I forgot to ask slip fees.

So, attached should be his card and if someone who will be using their facilities is interested, you can contact him and work things out.

Hope this helps.

Mark


Re: Batteries again, Upgrade

johnacord
 

John,

Perhaps your spreadsheet needs a bit of adjustment. 

Interstate does not give an AH rating for that battery, but in general one might expect a good group 27 to be 100AH (20 Hr rate).  A Peukert constant of 1.25 should not be far off, maybe a bit low but probably not as much as 1.4.  Using my calculator I get the following for peukert 1.25:

At a discharge of 25A ==> 56A effective (25 raised to the 1.25 power), 107 min to full discharge.

At a discharge of 12.5A ==> 23.5A effective, 255 min to full discharge.

John A


Re: Batteries again, Upgrade

 

I did a little fooling around in a spreadsheet with Peukert's Law. If I calculated correctly, using the 25 amp rating of Interstate group 27 deep cycle batteries, and a, probably optimistic, Peukert constant of 1.25:

Cal's two battery packs of two group 27s are each rated at 160 minutes at a 25 amp discharge. 320 minutes total for the packs used separately.

If he hooked the packs together in parallel the current draw per battery would be cut in half, 12.5 amps. My calculations show that at that discharge rate the combined pack would go about 381 minutes. Almost 19% longer, and similar to four mid-range Interstate golf cart batteries hooked up in series.

Using a pessimistic Peukert constant of 1.4 the run time with the combined pack at 12.5 amps would be about 423 minutes.

Halve the minutes above for the real world, where you want to use the batteries more than once. <g>

The truth of Cal's batteries' Peukert constant lies somewhere in between these extremes, and I may be way off base with my calculations... <g>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peukert%27s_law

--
John <@Jkohnen>
Wind is to us what money is to life on shore. (Sterling Hayden)


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Re: Batteries again, Upgrade

 

Thanks, Myles! I think I now understand why parallel connections are riskier than serial ones. Sounds like fuses between batteries, or battery banks, hooked up in parallel are a Good Idea. Cheaper than current limiting isolators? IIR Susanne and Phil's article on Lily (I gave a bunch of old MAIBs to John McC, who was gonna cut out the Bolger articles and/or scan them, I'm hoping he's got a copy of that one) they said there was some power loss through the isolators. More than through fuses? I suspect that a fuse sized to blow at a current well above the maximum draw from the motor wouldn't have much resistance at normal operating currents...

Dennis B, who's soon gonna have a motorboat named after him <g>, had a catastrophic failure of one of the six golf cart batteries hooked up in series in his tug, Lady-J. That one battery got hot enough to melt the top of the case, but the other batteries survived the ordeal and served for a few more years.

I really appreciate you sharing your actual experience with electric boating with us, Myles.

On 8/28/2020 7:25 PM, Myles T wrote:
I’ve had a lot of experience paralleling batteries on an electric boat---arguably as much or more than anyone else.
...
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For will anyone dare to tell me that business is more entertaining than fooling among boats? He must have never seen a boat or never seen an office, who says so. (Robert Louis Stevenson)
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Re: Batteries again, Upgrade

Electri-Cal
 

Wow!  Tons of great input on this.  The interstate M series seem to be a slight improvement over 27 standard builds.  Too bad I can't just plug a pair into the other battery pack, due to different capacities, and age, not much but not the same.  Looking at adding another input plug for #3 battery pack with a on/off switch.  That way I can isolate the original 4 battery pack.  Makes for a 4 bat. pack to cruise, with a two battery new pack behind the seat for reserve, turn off main, flip switch on for secondary, easy to do, and satisfies my desire for that backup reserve.  Maybe get this extra plug in Monday or so, but there are some connector issues, like running out of connector bolt threaded length, always something!!

The gen set plugged with my110v. variable charger could -- as a different option to the third pack, not together -- then can use the original charge input, just like on land.  Again, to extend range, probably not enough to replace the total draw amps. That is to be tested as option Two, with a different result.  Weight is like one battery, output to be tested on land next week.  Charlie and I for Tuesday, John K. on Wed.  I need to find a "close by" better lake than Dexter, that has water!!

Surprise can only handle just so much weight, so unless I add mega$$$, that will always be an issue, Later Coots --- Still Reading all This ---   Cal. 


Re: Batteries again, Upgrade

Richard Green
 

Huh?  Wha..?

Rich

On Aug 28, 2020, at 7:25 PM, Myles Twete <matwete@...> wrote:

I’ve had a lot of experience paralleling batteries on an electric boat---arguably as much or more than anyone else.
I converted the outboard on The Reach Of Tide to electric in 2003.  Initially, it was powered by a 60# ADC series-wound motor and a series string of 6 - 6volt Trojan 220ah batteries.  When I opted to double the capacity by adding another string of Trojans, I briefly considered paralleling batteries at the battery level, but ultimately decided to parallel at the string voltage instead.  In the extremely rare case of shorting a cell, a paralleled battery pair (6v) definitely could see a lot of current flowing one to the other given perhaps a 30% voltage stress (2v/6v) with a shorted cell.  Paralleling at the string level though, a single cell short in one of the batteries in a string would only stress about 5% (2v/36v), so wouldn’t expect a lot of current.  I ran with this arrangement and without even fusing between the strings for many years.  I NEVER ran with one string, then switched to the other---always I considered Peukert loss as more important and always kept the strings paralleled, whether at rest, cruising or charging.  I never had any issues.  This pack was rated 36v & 450ah or so (20hr rate).
 
Since 2014 or so, I’ve been running with lithium (nom.42v & 700ah).  Effectively, I have q:20 42v lithium batteries all connected up in parallel.  I do have a nom. 10amp (or is it 20?) fuse at each of these.  Each of these batteries is actually a stack of 12 pairs of lithium cells---i.e. 240 lithium cells are paralleled up with a partner.  If I happened to have a shorted cell (or more likely, a leaky cell), the immediate effect is to stress the adjacent cell.  Nothing new there, as this is the same risk when used in cars.  Typically either a leaky cell or a leaky BMS transistor causes this and I’ve had about 6 cell pairs in my pack that have been impacted.  With 12 pairs in the internal series string, and paralleling at the string level, a leaky cell or BMS channel results in that cell voltage dropping (and so also the string voltage).  But with 19 other strings in parallel, the string voltage is maintained.  The result?  In the bad string, 11 cell pairs see their voltage increase while the leaky pair continues to collapse.  It’s important to not let that situation continue, so at least occasional monitoring of cell voltages is important---I check the cell voltages in the pack about once a year, or about once every 5 charge cycles.  I do not trust the BMS to be connected and powered continuously---they do draw power (about 1watt each) and MOSFET bypass transistors can fail shorted or leak, so I only power them when I need to.
 
Even with just 1 of these lithium strings, the Peukert effect is minimal with my setup.  With 20x strings in parallel, I could use my pack as an arc-welder power source and it wouldn’t flinch.  And so, it’s important to put current protection in the right places.  My motor draws up to 200amps continuous at up to 48v with the pack as it’s configured.  Each of those strings only sees about 10amps, or about 0.3C current draw.  And for a typical cruise (maybe 50-80amps continuous), the cells only see about 0.1C.  So this pack is very minimally stressed compared to the perhaps 1C discharge and regen rates seen with these batteries in an EV.  This pack might outlive the boat. J
 
Anyway, I don’t use diodes, but I love fuses and I don’t have a problem with paralleling batteries at the right levels for the right reasons.
 
Your mileage may vary-
 
-Myles T.
 
 
 
From: oregoncoots@groups.io [mailto:oregoncoots@groups.io] On Behalf Of Randy Torgerson
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 4:26 PM
To: oregoncoots@groups.io
Subject: Re: [oregoncoots] Batteries again, Upgrade
 
John,
 

Yes, "runaway current from a strong battery to a weak one" is a real concern.  If one battery shorts a cell then the stronger battery will try to equalize the voltage with a large current resulting.  The large current can melt the interconnecting cables, the terminal and sometimes cause a battery to expand or explode.  Isolating the batteries when charging will lessen the risk.  Also if you are going to parallel batteries make sure they are the same type, manufacturer and date code.  This only only lessens the risk.  Fuse between the batteries can be a life saver.  An ACR (Automatic charge Relay) are now used to change two batteries from the same charge source.  The first  battery is charged and when the voltage reaches a setpoint then the second battery is charged also.  If the second battery's voltage is too low the ACR disconnects and the cycle repeats slowly.

Randy 



Re: Batteries again, Upgrade

Myles Twete
 

I’ve had a lot of experience paralleling batteries on an electric boat---arguably as much or more than anyone else.

I converted the outboard on The Reach Of Tide to electric in 2003.  Initially, it was powered by a 60# ADC series-wound motor and a series string of 6 - 6volt Trojan 220ah batteries.  When I opted to double the capacity by adding another string of Trojans, I briefly considered paralleling batteries at the battery level, but ultimately decided to parallel at the string voltage instead.  In the extremely rare case of shorting a cell, a paralleled battery pair (6v) definitely could see a lot of current flowing one to the other given perhaps a 30% voltage stress (2v/6v) with a shorted cell.  Paralleling at the string level though, a single cell short in one of the batteries in a string would only stress about 5% (2v/36v), so wouldn’t expect a lot of current.  I ran with this arrangement and without even fusing between the strings for many years.  I NEVER ran with one string, then switched to the other---always I considered Peukert loss as more important and always kept the strings paralleled, whether at rest, cruising or charging.  I never had any issues.  This pack was rated 36v & 450ah or so (20hr rate).

 

Since 2014 or so, I’ve been running with lithium (nom.42v & 700ah).  Effectively, I have q:20 42v lithium batteries all connected up in parallel.  I do have a nom. 10amp (or is it 20?) fuse at each of these.  Each of these batteries is actually a stack of 12 pairs of lithium cells---i.e. 240 lithium cells are paralleled up with a partner.  If I happened to have a shorted cell (or more likely, a leaky cell), the immediate effect is to stress the adjacent cell.  Nothing new there, as this is the same risk when used in cars.  Typically either a leaky cell or a leaky BMS transistor causes this and I’ve had about 6 cell pairs in my pack that have been impacted.  With 12 pairs in the internal series string, and paralleling at the string level, a leaky cell or BMS channel results in that cell voltage dropping (and so also the string voltage).  But with 19 other strings in parallel, the string voltage is maintained.  The result?  In the bad string, 11 cell pairs see their voltage increase while the leaky pair continues to collapse.  It’s important to not let that situation continue, so at least occasional monitoring of cell voltages is important---I check the cell voltages in the pack about once a year, or about once every 5 charge cycles.  I do not trust the BMS to be connected and powered continuously---they do draw power (about 1watt each) and MOSFET bypass transistors can fail shorted or leak, so I only power them when I need to.

 

Even with just 1 of these lithium strings, the Peukert effect is minimal with my setup.  With 20x strings in parallel, I could use my pack as an arc-welder power source and it wouldn’t flinch.  And so, it’s important to put current protection in the right places.  My motor draws up to 200amps continuous at up to 48v with the pack as it’s configured.  Each of those strings only sees about 10amps, or about 0.3C current draw.  And for a typical cruise (maybe 50-80amps continuous), the cells only see about 0.1C.  So this pack is very minimally stressed compared to the perhaps 1C discharge and regen rates seen with these batteries in an EV.  This pack might outlive the boat. J

 

Anyway, I don’t use diodes, but I love fuses and I don’t have a problem with paralleling batteries at the right levels for the right reasons.

 

Your mileage may vary-

 

-Myles T.

 

 

 

From: oregoncoots@groups.io [mailto:oregoncoots@groups.io] On Behalf Of Randy Torgerson
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2020 4:26 PM
To: oregoncoots@groups.io
Subject: Re: [oregoncoots] Batteries again, Upgrade

 

John,

 

Yes, "runaway current from a strong battery to a weak one" is a real concern.  If one battery shorts a cell then the stronger battery will try to equalize the voltage with a large current resulting.  The large current can melt the interconnecting cables, the terminal and sometimes cause a battery to expand or explode.  Isolating the batteries when charging will lessen the risk.  Also if you are going to parallel batteries make sure they are the same type, manufacturer and date code.  This only only lessens the risk.  Fuse between the batteries can be a life saver.  An ACR (Automatic charge Relay) are now used to change two batteries from the same charge source.  The first  battery is charged and when the voltage reaches a setpoint then the second battery is charged also.  If the second battery's voltage is too low the ACR disconnects and the cycle repeats slowly.

Randy


Re: Batteries again, Upgrade

Randy Torgerson
 

John,


Yes, "runaway current from a strong battery to a weak one" is a real concern.  If one battery shorts a cell then the stronger battery will try to equalize the voltage with a large current resulting.  The large current can melt the interconnecting cables, the terminal and sometimes cause a battery to expand or explode.  Isolating the batteries when charging will lessen the risk.  Also if you are going to parallel batteries make sure they are the same type, manufacturer and date code.  This only only lessens the risk.  Fuse between the batteries can be a life saver.  An ACR (Automatic charge Relay) are now used to change two batteries from the same charge source.  The first  battery is charged and when the voltage reaches a setpoint then the second battery is charged also.  If the second battery's voltage is too low the ACR disconnects and the cycle repeats slowly.


Randy


Re: Batteries again, Upgrade

 

Late in life, Phil Bolger got married. His bride is an engineer, and a German one at that. <g> Together they designed and built an electric launch, Lily. Lily had an easy to build flat-bottom skiff hull designed by Phil, and the power plant was designed by Susanne. Push came from a 24 volt trolling motor, power was from six 12 volt batteries, wired up in a series/parallel arrangement. I can't find the article on Lily -- it must have been in Messing About in Boats -- but I recall that Susanne made quite an effort to isolate the batteries, even using six separate chargers! IIR the article correctly, she was particularly concerned about the batteries hooked together in parallel, using "diodes" (what the Mike O'Brien article in Wooden Boat #137 calls them) between batteries to prevent runaway current from a strong battery to a weak one. Is that really a concern, or was Susanne just overthinking things? To further illustrate her thinking: Lily has a movable battery rack that can be moved fore and aft with a lead screw to adjust the boat's trim for different loads!

The "battery separator" in Lazy Jack charges the small starter battery first, then the larger house battery, but when I start the motor it draws from both, very different, batteries in parallel. <shrug> Nothing has blown up, yet. ;o)

On 8/27/2020 11:36 AM, john a wrote:
That is a very nice post, a good explanation of many things that have been discussed.  I tend to be a bit analytical (my physics background slipping in!).  Good work on your part, especially pointing  out the advantage of paralleling to reduce the current drawn from each battery.
--
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I cannot help thinking that the people with motor boats miss a great deal. If they would only keep to rowboats or canoes, and use oar or paddle... they would get infinitely more benefit than by having their work done for them by gasoline. (Theodore Roosevelt)
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Re: Batteries again, Upgrade

 

Oops! Of course I meant: "The cheapest way to get more range out of the 12 volt batteries you've
got is to wire the two battery banks together in PARALLEL."
On 8/28/2020 3:07 PM, John Kohnen wrote:
Four 6 volt batteries hooked up in series, a simple on/off battery switch. What's simpler?
The cheapest way to get more range out of the 12 volt batteries you've got is to wire the two battery banks together in series.
On 8/27/2020 10:06 PM, Electri-Cal wrote:
Whew, lots of input on this.  I looked at 6 volters, but easier wiring, more compact package, space planned for, and cost stopped that.  Pretty happy with what I have, would love more run time and or speed -- not willing to pay the price for that beyond the option I just posted, with 6 batts.
> ...
--
John <@Jkohnen>
Hanging is too good for a man who makes puns; he should be drawn and quoted. (Fred Allen)


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Re: Batteries again, Upgrade

 

The M-27HDC. Four pounds heavier than the SRM-27, same 160 min. rating at 25 amps. About $9 cheaper than the SRM-27. More lead, lower price? Unfortunately, Interstate's specs don't say what's different in their construction... But more lead is Good.

https://www.interstatebatteries.com/recreation-vehicles/marine-batteries/m-line

https://www.interstatebatteries.com/recreation-vehicles/marine-batteries/deep-cycle

On 8/28/2020 9:01 AM, Electri-Cal wrote:
Look lower John, the batts. are the biggest --  listed in the " H " series marine..   Theyr'e even heavier series 27 size, , deeper allowable draw by the extra 4.1 pounds weight. . More expensive components in that type from my take on this.  I just put the original older ones back as a balanced for charging pack, matches better.  Back up pack will be the newer ones, as needed. .
--
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Re: Batteries again, Upgrade

 

Four 6 volt batteries hooked up in series, a simple on/off battery switch. What's simpler?

The cheapest way to get more range out of the 12 volt batteries you've got is to wire the two battery banks together in series.

On 8/27/2020 10:06 PM, Electri-Cal wrote:
Whew, lots of input on this.  I looked at 6 volters, but easier wiring, more compact package, space planned for, and cost stopped that.  Pretty happy with what I have, would love more run time and or speed -- not willing to pay the price for that beyond the option I just posted, with 6 batts.
...
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Re: Batteries again, Upgrade

Electri-Cal
 

OOPS, John --- bad Readers ---  they are the M series - as in Mother.... !!  where are my glasses, or other comment.

Later still,  Cal


Re: Batteries again, Upgrade

Electri-Cal
 

Look lower John, the batts. are the biggest --  listed in the " H " series marine..   Theyr'e even heavier series 27 size, , deeper allowable draw by the extra 4.1 pounds weight. . More expensive components in that type from my take on this.  I just put the original older ones back as a balanced for charging pack, matches better.  Back up pack will be the newer ones, as needed. .

Later,  Cal 


Re: Batteries again, Upgrade

Electri-Cal
 

Friday 6:00 am, rested and looking at stuff I have now.  Lil' Honda (yeah yeah!!) is ready to install now, I had finished an optional bow mount that ties in place.  Add gas and go, if,  (big if !!)  it will handle a decent size charger without stalling. Did that  draw test once, years ago, but a charger or drill, maybe lights at camp, don't recall now.  I hope by next Wednesday, when I meet John at Dexter -- it will be working to some degree.  Also maybe new guage for draw, if I can figure a way to do that without too much grief.  Thats the project, time to roll. Genset puts out 300 watts of 110 v. ---  3 amps of 12 v. ---- will hook charger to 110 side and adjust variable output dial as motor will take.  The whole genset with on board mount weighs exactly 46  pounds, just a few pounds shy of one battery. Wonder what kind of extra muffler I might need to add, since I have run it inside a 30 ft sailboat cockpit, and could still talk, decades ago.

Later,   Cal


Re: Batteries again, Upgrade

Electri-Cal
 

Whew, lots of input on this.  I looked at 6 volters, but easier wiring, more compact package, space planned for, and cost stopped that.  Pretty happy with what I have, would love more run time and or speed -- not willing to pay the price for that beyond the option I just posted, with 6 batts. if needed for a specific trip.  I couldn't carry Gingers pack size, so that's out.  I remember John and I fried a battery at Fern Ridge, then I needed a rescue tow another round, so not doing only one pack, without a back up. 

I did finish a stern cover, so I have a 4 ft. square deck I could do a solar collector on easy.  The even easier deal is still my Honda 4 stroke with a 10 amp charger back in the stern.  The Honda weighs like ONE size 27 battery , runs a quart of gas about ! charge. Seems like the easiest, fastest to do research on this yet this year.  The little Honda 400 genset is darn quiet,  -- I gotta try that soon as possible as it might solve the problem with my 10 amp charger or the big adjustable one that would do a full pack at once.  I might wish for my 10 amp charger with the Honda genset, sitting back in the stern to be a switchable option that requires no sun, no glass mat batt., and less weight to get the range.  OK, darn it, this happens next week if at all possible, my curiosity just got lit up -- thanks Coots.   Can't use electronics with my genset, older than having filters for that..


Of course I could do all 4 batts. as one pack, tried it once too. Think i'll stick to 27 common battery size, and twin packs, possibly a piggy back, or genset add on.  Unless I find a few thou. $$ laying around for lithiums, easier to consider than write a check for those.  I don't do overnighters anymore, so day trips are way easier on me.

Starting the genset hook up this week end, we'll see !!! ---   Cal