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Re: kayak sail rig

Gerard Mittelstaedt
 

Had a good look at the Bat wing, Rushton sail  The upper "yard" sits close to the mast
making the sail rig something like a Gunter rig.  This is good in that it keeps the spars
including the mast low.
- Gerard Mittelstaedt


On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 3:29 PM John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:
Nylon is too stretchy for an upwind sail. Polytarp works good. Polysail
Dave has done a lot of experimentation with them and has got them
figured out. Search for "polytarp sail", "Polysail" and "Dave Grey" in
the Duckworks Magazine archive:

https://duckworksmagazine.com/

http://polysail.com/

More from COD:

http://thecheappages.com/oddsails.html

Jim Michalak's perennial article on "sail area math" a good one, and his
method of balancing the rig should work fine for a kayak:

http://www.jimsboats.com/1jan20.htm

Tyvek house wrap has also been used for sails. The main problem for
Coots, and other small boat sailors, is that they sell it in Big rolls
at Jerry's. You might be able to bum enough for several kayak sails from
a building site...

http://boat-links.com/Tyvek/

On 6/10/2020 11:54 PM, Jove wrote:
> Yes, not very cootish, and I was hoping to build it myself from scrap
> and a little sail cloth or that ripstop nylon they sell at Joanne’s in
> nice colors.
 > ...

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John <jkohnen@...>
People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that
kicks them. (Eric Hoffer)


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--
Gerard Mittelstaedt  -- mittel48@...
McAllen, Texas
USA


Re: kayak sail rig

 

Nylon is too stretchy for an upwind sail. Polytarp works good. Polysail Dave has done a lot of experimentation with them and has got them figured out. Search for "polytarp sail", "Polysail" and "Dave Grey" in the Duckworks Magazine archive:

https://duckworksmagazine.com/

http://polysail.com/

More from COD:

http://thecheappages.com/oddsails.html

Jim Michalak's perennial article on "sail area math" a good one, and his method of balancing the rig should work fine for a kayak:

http://www.jimsboats.com/1jan20.htm

Tyvek house wrap has also been used for sails. The main problem for Coots, and other small boat sailors, is that they sell it in Big rolls at Jerry's. You might be able to bum enough for several kayak sails from a building site...

http://boat-links.com/Tyvek/

On 6/10/2020 11:54 PM, Jove wrote:
Yes, not very cootish, and I was hoping to build it myself from scrap and a little sail cloth or that ripstop nylon they sell at Joanne’s in nice colors.
...
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John <@Jkohnen>
People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them. (Eric Hoffer)
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Re: kayak sail rig

Brandon
 

The seller (owner?) isn't very diligent in renewing his Craig's List adds; they come and go.

Brandon 


Re: kayak sail rig

 

I like balanced lugsails, but for a kayak you oughta look at some of the rigs used by canoe sailors long ago, but reduced in size. I'm thinking particularly about the batwing. It uses a short mast that you can probably leave up without hindering your paddling. When you drop the sail it all comes down aft of the mast, where you can more easily deal with it. Looks cool, too. <g> I don't mean what some modern canoe sailors call a "batwing", like Balogh's, but the original, like this:

http://www.thecheappages.com/canoe/rushton_bat/_Rushton_Bat_Sails.html

More interesting stuff from COD:

http://freepages.rootsweb.com/%7Efassitt/genealogy/canoe_mirror/canoe_sailing.html

I'd avoid any loose-footed (boomless) sail on a kayak, because it'd be prone to a "death roll" going downwind in a strong wind.

Did you ever finish the skin on frame kayak, Jove?

On 6/10/2020 11:54 PM, Jove wrote:
Yes, not very cootish, and I was hoping to build it myself from scrap and a little sail cloth or that ripstop nylon they sell at Joanne’s in nice colors. But the attachment methods and the recommended sail area are helpful. After reading some good things about balanced lug rigs going to windward ok I’m leaning in that direction. Short spars, simple to build and a low center of effort.
https://www.clcboats.com/life-of-boats-blog/lug-nuts-lug-rigs.html
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John <@Jkohnen>
Correlation does not imply causation; except, of course, to your cat. (Craig O'Donnell)
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Re: kayak sail rig

Brandon
 

No. Not me. We are still happily living aboard Oceanus. The Columbia 43 that is for sale in Olympia is across the way in West Bay Marina. I've seen it from the outside and it looks to be in pretty good shape. Buy it for $20,000 and put another $60,000 into it and you would have a fine cruising boat. Columbia 43s rate pretty well under PHRF so you could race her as well. I wrote a review of the 43 in the May/June 2019 issue of Good Old Boar Magazine. She is a great sea boat, loves those big waves on the Oregon coast.

Brandon
SV Oceanus, 1971 Columbia 43
Olympia, Wash.


Re: kayak sail rig

Jove Lachman-Curl
 

Yes, not very cootish, and I was hoping to build it myself from scrap and a little sail cloth or that ripstop nylon they sell at Joanne’s in nice colors. But the attachment methods and the recommended sail area are helpful. After reading some good things about balanced lug rigs going to windward ok I’m leaning in that direction. Short spars, simple to build and a low center of effort.

On Jun 10, 2020, at 7:55 PM, John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:

Where's the fun in buying a rig off the shelf? Not very Cootish. ;o) Those rigs look well-thought out, though their "Genoa" looks like a normal jib to me <g>, but $760-800!

https://www.kayaksailor.com/store/pc/viewcategories.asp?idcategory=2


On 6/9/2020 7:13 PM, Bob Miller wrote:
Kayaksailor.com
Collapsible rig. Easily handled.


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John <jkohnen@...>
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Re: kayak sail rig

Richard Green
 

Well, I see the ad is no longer existant so mebbe not.

Rich

On Jun 10, 2020, at 7:58 PM, John Kohnen <@Jkohnen> wrote:

Say it ain't so, Brandon!

http://hagothlog.blogspot.com/

On 6/10/2020 1:48 PM, Rich G wrote:
Brandon, is that your Columbia I see for sale?
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John <@Jkohnen>
You can tell the size of a man by the size of the thing that makes him mad. (Adlai Stevenson)


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Re: kayak sail rig

 

Say it ain't so, Brandon!

http://hagothlog.blogspot.com/

On 6/10/2020 1:48 PM, Rich G wrote:
Brandon, is that your Columbia I see for sale?
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Re: kayak sail rig

 

Where's the fun in buying a rig off the shelf? Not very Cootish. ;o) Those rigs look well-thought out, though their "Genoa" looks like a normal jib to me <g>, but $760-800!

https://www.kayaksailor.com/store/pc/viewcategories.asp?idcategory=2

On 6/9/2020 7:13 PM, Bob Miller wrote:
Kayaksailor.com
Collapsible rig. Easily handled.

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Re: kayak sail rig

Richard Green
 

Brandon, is that your Columbia I see for sale?

Rich

On Jun 10, 2020, at 8:52 AM, Brandon via groups.io <brandonfordus=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

How about a golf umbrella. Classy and simple.

Brandon
Olympia, Wash.
1971 Columbia 43



Re: kayak sail rig

Brandon
 

How about a golf umbrella. Classy and simple.

Brandon
Olympia, Wash.
1971 Columbia 43


Re: kayak sail rig

Bob Miller
 

Kayaksailor.com

Collapsible rig. Easily handled.

Bob M

On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 3:08 PM Jove Lachman-Curl <jovelc87@...> wrote:
Hey coots, I'm looking for input on a simple sail rig for my kayak.
I paddle a couple of 15-16ft sea kayaks made by edyline, one is from mid 80s and one is mid 2000s.
I use a cedar greenland paddle I made most of the time.
I'd love to try sailing a kayak, so I'm looking for a simple design and a guide on how much area to shoot for.
I'd like to attach a platform and a leeboard too, then probably balance the rig and leeboard and use the paddle or corrections.
input? designs?
I don't want something that gets in the way of paddling, or requires an outrigger. So I imagine this being a fairly small rig, maybe attached with suction cups, or a backer plate under the deck and screws. I'd like it to stow easily without getting out of the kayak.
I'm open to it being lug, wing, crab clay etc. I'd like to get a little ponting ability out of it, not just a drag shoot, I go down wind pretty fast anyway.
  Input? Designs?  
Thanks.
I was out the other evening till dusk and here's a pretty picture of that.
image.png
-Jove


kayak sail rig

Jove Lachman-Curl
 

Hey coots, I'm looking for input on a simple sail rig for my kayak.
I paddle a couple of 15-16ft sea kayaks made by edyline, one is from mid 80s and one is mid 2000s.
I use a cedar greenland paddle I made most of the time.
I'd love to try sailing a kayak, so I'm looking for a simple design and a guide on how much area to shoot for.
I'd like to attach a platform and a leeboard too, then probably balance the rig and leeboard and use the paddle or corrections.
input? designs?
I don't want something that gets in the way of paddling, or requires an outrigger. So I imagine this being a fairly small rig, maybe attached with suction cups, or a backer plate under the deck and screws. I'd like it to stow easily without getting out of the kayak.
I'm open to it being lug, wing, crab clay etc. I'd like to get a little ponting ability out of it, not just a drag shoot, I go down wind pretty fast anyway.
  Input? Designs?  
Thanks.
I was out the other evening till dusk and here's a pretty picture of that.
image.png
-Jove


Re: An Album

dan mulholland
 

A little more.  There was a fire at our house in Glenada, not much really, but enough to smoke up a lot of the pictures.  Wonderfully, the negatives made it; and showed up in a box my mother left in her attic in Eugene.   Being able to scan them into a computer is very useful.  Most if not all of these pictures were taken by my older brother, with a 35mm Ricoh camera.  It's amazing how much  detail there can be in a black and  white negative, revealed when enlarged.  He was a good photographer.

I also was able to go up the river to camp.  No resistance from parents; no phones, no permission to camp somewhere.  I remember rowing against the tide from Glenada to what's called the Kesey  house.  On  that trip, there was a huge (to us) striped bass on the bank.  The Kesey house had several creepy skeletons of raccoons or skunks inside.  Not a campsite!

My friend John, (Lee's younger brother, who's in some of the  pictures) learned about "lefty loosy, righty tighty" on  one of those Karnowski outboards, as it came loose, Lee told him  to tighten it up, and over it went.  Years later, in high school, we borrowed a newish 3 hp Evinrude to go up the river.  It was made in  Europe, and had the bad feature of a single clamp.  I remember it going over the side, and John reached over and grabbed it by the lower unit and hoisted it  into the boat.   Actually tying the engine to the  boat, well, hadn't thought of that.  Started right up.  Or, the trip with an old 5hp Johnson, when  the hard starting beast's cord came out during a starting attempt.  We probably waited for the tide to turn to head back.

Dan


Re: The Society of Ornamental Turners

Josh
 

I have a lathe but nothing I make looks that good. 


Re: Waldo lake

Josh
 

I really enjoyed peoples memories of that area. When I was growing up my parents didn't know what the outdoors was but our landlord took me to Waldo every summer. He'd bring two canoes and put braces across the top turning them into a catamaran then take the gear to the campsite while his wife and I walked around the shore. 


Re: An Album

 

That's a great collection of photos, Dan, thanks for sharing them. It was a lot more interesting over at the Coast in those days. But for most of the sixties I was too young to drive over there myself and explore, and my dad wasn't interested in junkyards and old outboard shops (Bill's is a coffee shop now, isn't it?), and after I got my license I was interested in less important things for too long...

Your strip-planked rowboat reminded me of the one Jerry Alvey had, though yours was more shapely. Jerry's is in the Museum in Coos Bay now:

https://flic.kr/s/aHskzKWhgK

With all the sawmills on the Coast it's not surprising that strip-planked boats were built. Boats could be cheaply built using strips could be cut from reject planks from the mills. That's what Chapelle wrote anyway, and he must have known. <g> In the Old Days they never put any goo between the strips.

On 6/7/2020 9:54 PM, Willys Dan wrote:
I added an album, at the groups.io website:
https://groups.io/g/oregoncoots/photos
The pictures are from another time, the  1960's, in Glenada and Florence, featuring our boyhood boat primarily.
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The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion. (Arthur C. Clarke)
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The Society of Ornamental Turners

 

I stumbled upon this while reading about sonething else altogether. It's not boaty, but it'll probably be of interest to some of you Coots. I was vaguely aware of this sort of craftwork, but had no idea all that they could do!

http://www.the-sot.com/

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John <@Jkohnen>
George Washington as a boy was ignorant of the commonest accomplishments of youth. He could not even lie. (Mark Twain)


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TSCA -New Council members

John Weiss
 

[Bcc to Chapters, Council, Groups]

From President Suzan Wallace:

Announcing our New Council Members- 2020-2023

Todd Bloch - Sacramento Chapter

Douglass Oelller - Old Bay Chapter

Walter Baron - Cape Cod Chapter

It is always good news to welcome new blood into the council!!

I appreciate your willingness to jump in and support our mission by taking a council seat. We will be making an official announcement to the TSCA membership soon, but we wanted you to be the first to know! YEAH! Congratulations!

Full Council list is at https://tsca.net/organization/


Re: 46ft pilot cutter rebuild

Mark Strader
 

I'm not sure if Leo mentions the time it sat, but I'm thinking 30-40yrs.



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------
From: Jove Lachman-Curl <jovelc87@...>
Date: 06/08/2020 10:43 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: oregoncoots@groups.io
Subject: Re: [oregoncoots] 46ft pilot cutter rebuild

Thanks for the info Mark.
it's a very interesting build.
and fun to hear you saw the boat growing up there, I wonder how long it sat. do you know?
I thought about volunteering too, but I'm back to work again now after the covid furlough.
-Jove

On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 5:25 PM Mark Strader via groups.io <mstrader77=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
The guy's name is Leo. His skill and knowledge is well beyond his years. He rescued the boat, where it sat for years, down in Brookings, OR or more specifically Harbor. I have an interest because I remember seeing the Tally Ho covered up on the hard while growing up there. I recognized the location in the first couple videos. I thought about volunteering my time, but he had so much support, he requested a 4 week commitment according to his website.



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
From: Jove Lachman-Curl <jovelc87@...>
Date: 06/05/2020 5:02 PM (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [oregoncoots] 46ft pilot cutter rebuild

My friend in Eugene showed me this video series.
A british guy has been restoring a 1910 pilot cutter from England called Tally Ho. Designed by Albert Strange.
She is 46ft on the deck, and he's restoring her from the keel bolts up. It's a great video series.
I particularly liked when he lifted 20 tons of boat off the lead keel with 2 bottle jacks and a lot of time and skill. Started in 2017 he is now up to the deck beams. He's doing the work up in Sequim.
He's got courage and a lot of energy.
I've watched the first dozen episodes and I'm thoroughly enjoying it.
Enjoy!
-Jove