Date   

Re: Batteries again, Upgrade

Electri-Cal
 


I should have thought that the 20 amp draw was ONE motor !!!  Pushing 40 amps tells me I need to drop my cruise speed below 4 mph. ----  next trip i'll try 3 mph as a reduced speed.  

Yep, better to use the six or eight volt types, if you have room to do that.  The extra weight also adds more weight to push through the water.  After another chat at the Interstate place, and Tuesdays run at Dexter there is a bit more as an opinion.  Charlie and I did the exact same trip as last time, and got pretty much the same results, but some findings were good to know.  I need to go over the wiring again to see if I have the amps reading correctly, later on that part!!   What was just tried was undocking, and redocking, was both motors at higher drain nimbers.  At cruise I can (first) shut one motor off, and the meter drops noticably, but cruise steering is still ok.  I should drop to 3 mph cruise, better time at 15 amps than 20 i've been on.

Next option is I could use both packs as one bigger 24v. source, and have an alarm, or use the depth finder, also the gps to show the charge, they cut out al 11.5v estimated so 23v for the pack.  Then when they stop I would have reserve at reduced power.  OR ----- for longer trips, plug in the third pack !!  My butt gets tired after a couple hours when "riding double" in one position, so adding the "solo 3rd cruising battery pack makes sense for both weight and wiggle room..  If I go alone, I can get way longer runs, as I usually tie up someplace to read, nap, or putter aboard.  At Dexter it's usually run, run, run, and chat and eat, under way, a continual heavier drain than my solo stop and go use

New ones have water caps, I like to monitor that myself. If the acid loses it's potency, Interstat has offered to repair or replace the battery free if that happens !!! The extra 4 lb lead, seems to hold the main amps a bit longer, allow for deeper drain without damage, and hold power a bit longer before drop off.  Not a great big deal, but for a $20. bill each I will do that.  I'd love to do an arc moto battery or similar, but not on my budget,   Thought about a Nissan battery or similar, but also a bunch of $$$,  doing an install and rewire, different battery chargers, some gauges stuff, yet more shop time.  As it is now I can do a good days cruise, go home and recharge for almost zero cost, tows with my Toyota Corolla, at good mileage there !!.

Needs more boating, less fussing over what works now ---- Later,   Cal

.  


Re: Titan got a new home

Richard Green
 

Living  in Mac and having done fifty years of building a couple boats and  refurbing a dozen and a half boats, I’ll keep my eye open.  Hope to see the boat.

Rich

On Aug 26, 2020, at 7:27 PM, Andy Rusten <w7atr.1@...> wrote:

Well, second happiest day as they say. Going to the valley Saturday to help the new owner get her ready to move. New tires and wheels, trailer lights, and go thru all the stuff. She heading to McMinnville for a full overhaul and going up to the inside passage after finnish. 


Titan got a new home

Andy Rusten
 

Well, second happiest day as they say. Going to the valley Saturday to help the new owner get her ready to move. New tires and wheels, trailer lights, and go thru all the stuff. She heading to McMinnville for a full overhaul and going up to the inside passage after finnish. 


Re: September Trip

elaineginader
 

Hi Dan,

That's great to hear. 

Elaine

On Wed, Aug 26, 2020, 7:25 AM Dan <danashore@...> wrote:
Once again, I have lost and regained-less-perfectly contact with the outside world.  Deep sigh.  I caught a smattering of talk about a trip in September.  Provided riffraf from upstream might be acceptable; Jamie the Seadog and I might be able to slip across the border, lurking from shadow to shadow of course. What are da'plan?  Thanks much, Dan, and other denizens of a social-distanced Frankenwerke. 


September Trip

Dan
 

Once again, I have lost and regained-less-perfectly contact with the outside world.  Deep sigh.  I caught a smattering of talk about a trip in September.  Provided riffraf from upstream might be acceptable; Jamie the Seadog and I might be able to slip across the border, lurking from shadow to shadow of course. What are da'plan?  Thanks much, Dan, and other denizens of a social-distanced Frankenwerke. 


Re: Batteries again, Upgrade

johnacord
 

John & Clan,

Here you are, from the "Ample Power Primer" :
(looks too big to attach, but for anyone interested I can email it.  Good reading)

Batteries are Purpose Built
The concept of ‘purpose built’ is useful to describe the differences
in battery designs. Just like a hydroplane isn’t the best of cruising
boats, not all batteries are built for cruising.

Starting Battery is Simplest Type
The simplest, and least expensive battery is the starting battery. It
is constructed with many very thin plates. The combined surface
area of the many plates allows high currents to flow through the
battery . . . great for the purpose of starting engines. The starting
battery can’t be deeply discharged without a significant risk of de-
struction. A recent study showed that no starter battery survived
more than 18 deep discharge cycles . . . most survived no more
than 3 deep discharges.

Deep Cycling Requires Thicker Plates
To enable deep discharges, the plates must be made thicker and
the insulating separators made from more expensive materials
than the paper used in starting batteries. Thicker, but fewer plates
means that the battery won’t sustain as high a rate of current, but
will permit deeper discharges without imminent failure. Golf cart
batteries and heavy duty 8D units are thus designed with the pur-
pose of supplying moderate currents for sustained periods. They
aren’t a true deep cycle battery, however, and should be charged
soon after any extensive discharge.

It apparently is possible to build a compromise.  I am using a Lifeline size U1, 33AH "deep cycle", rated at 325 CCA @68 F.  I chose this for a dual purpose starting/house battery with a 50HP outboard.  I rarely discharge deeply with this one so probably OK.  I trust Lifeline, a good solid product.  Not so sure with run of the mill generic companies (I********).  You get what you pay for: the lifeline U1 is a $250 battery!

John A.


Re: Batteries again, Upgrade

 

The batteries Cal got are probably SRM-27s:

https://www.interstatebatteries.com/recreation-vehicles/marine-batteries/deep-cycle

His motors are 24 volt, two 80 lb. thrust Minn Kota trolling motors.

Forgive me if you already know this. Unlike the lithium batteries you use in the Arcimoto, Cal's lead/acid batteries are affected by the Peukert effect. The running times at certain current draws are probably more useful then the usual amp hour ratings for his use. It seems odd to me that they list cold cranking amps for deep cycle batteries. <shrug>

I think he'd be better off using four 6 volt golf cart batteries, rather than two banks of two 12 volt batteries each. Not to mention that golf cart batteries are optimized for running electric motors.

https://www.interstatebatteries.com/recreation-vehicles/golf-cart-batteries

On 8/25/2020 11:46 AM, Jove Lachman-Curl wrote:
Very interesting Cal,
What is the AMP hrs on each of those, four batteries is it? And amp hours total?
Boat size & weight? I'm not familiar with Surprise.
I work at Arcimoto, a small electric vehicle company in Eugene, So I'm always looking at kWh and range etc.

--
John <@Jkohnen>
Irreverence is the champion of liberty and its only sure defense. (Mark Twain)
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Re: Batteries again, Upgrade

johnacord
 

I have had very good service from the Universal Power Group (UPG) batteries.  I like that they are one of the few battery manufactures that publish ( and make readily available!!) a full range of specs:  AH, KWH & charge discharge curves.   Attached is the data sheet for a 100AH AGM. If I were powering an electric boat using AGM I would consider them a good choice. 

John Acord


Re: Batteries again, Upgrade

Jove Lachman-Curl
 

Also, what it is your operating voltage and motor type.
-Jove

On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 11:46 AM Jove Lachman-Curl <jovelc87@...> wrote:
Very interesting Cal,
What is the AMP hrs on each of those, four batteries is it? And amp hours total?
Boat size & weight? I'm not familiar with Surprise.
I work at Arcimoto, a small electric vehicle company in Eugene, So I'm always looking at kWh and range etc.
-Jove

On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 7:06 AM Electri-Cal <calboats@...> wrote:
I was yakking with the shop manager at Interstate battery co. yesterday.  Armed with the battery info. from my current two deep cycle power packs, and other data.  Looking for more time at the specificc power amp settings I use for cruise power on Surprise.  How long at what setting, without "drop off" can I expect.  Trying to avoid the switch resetting as trips wear down the battery, and so has more even power through the trip.  Easier on the plates, and faster recharge over average use cycles.

Other part was the weight of each of 4 batteries in the two a--b packs. Going over the series 27 size case added too much on my size boat.  The warehouse manager weighed in on the subject, and we came up with a workable solution for my specific needs.  Electric boats are more iong term drain, but also need constant drain power.  Drop off after say an hour or two can make the battery degrade slightly, if run too low, like over half by much.  Even at that mark, the pulling power requires that I crank up the setting, and that is the problem.  I got a pair of specific batteries, for commercial power drains of a more constant nature. 

Still size 27 case, but with 4.1 extra lb. of lead in each case.  Must be a different composition to hold deep charges even longer.  Not commonly offered from what I see, but I won't know till Charlie and I get on the lake today.  After that run around Dexter, this morning maybe 11 or noonish, we will have the first runs and see how they last.  I expect around 20% longer runs, from what the Interstate manager decided looked about right.  If that works I will add another chapter to this, with model numbers. 

AFTER TESTING A COUPLE TIMES. I would use several opinions as to values and output before I give out data.  That way, if somebody else doesn't get the same results, I'm not  the sole source on this. An added 20% or close, at a reasonable price seems good, but we'll see asap.

Stay Tuned,   Cal                      PS____  Depth finder video camera takes a halt for now !!  I'd rather have more run time on Surprise, this was an option I had not seen before, so here goes !!


  

.


Re: Batteries again, Upgrade

Jove Lachman-Curl
 

Very interesting Cal,
What is the AMP hrs on each of those, four batteries is it? And amp hours total?
Boat size & weight? I'm not familiar with Surprise.
I work at Arcimoto, a small electric vehicle company in Eugene, So I'm always looking at kWh and range etc.
-Jove

On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 7:06 AM Electri-Cal <calboats@...> wrote:
I was yakking with the shop manager at Interstate battery co. yesterday.  Armed with the battery info. from my current two deep cycle power packs, and other data.  Looking for more time at the specificc power amp settings I use for cruise power on Surprise.  How long at what setting, without "drop off" can I expect.  Trying to avoid the switch resetting as trips wear down the battery, and so has more even power through the trip.  Easier on the plates, and faster recharge over average use cycles.

Other part was the weight of each of 4 batteries in the two a--b packs. Going over the series 27 size case added too much on my size boat.  The warehouse manager weighed in on the subject, and we came up with a workable solution for my specific needs.  Electric boats are more iong term drain, but also need constant drain power.  Drop off after say an hour or two can make the battery degrade slightly, if run too low, like over half by much.  Even at that mark, the pulling power requires that I crank up the setting, and that is the problem.  I got a pair of specific batteries, for commercial power drains of a more constant nature. 

Still size 27 case, but with 4.1 extra lb. of lead in each case.  Must be a different composition to hold deep charges even longer.  Not commonly offered from what I see, but I won't know till Charlie and I get on the lake today.  After that run around Dexter, this morning maybe 11 or noonish, we will have the first runs and see how they last.  I expect around 20% longer runs, from what the Interstate manager decided looked about right.  If that works I will add another chapter to this, with model numbers. 

AFTER TESTING A COUPLE TIMES. I would use several opinions as to values and output before I give out data.  That way, if somebody else doesn't get the same results, I'm not  the sole source on this. An added 20% or close, at a reasonable price seems good, but we'll see asap.

Stay Tuned,   Cal                      PS____  Depth finder video camera takes a halt for now !!  I'd rather have more run time on Surprise, this was an option I had not seen before, so here goes !!


  

.


Batteries again, Upgrade

Electri-Cal
 

I was yakking with the shop manager at Interstate battery co. yesterday.  Armed with the battery info. from my current two deep cycle power packs, and other data.  Looking for more time at the specificc power amp settings I use for cruise power on Surprise.  How long at what setting, without "drop off" can I expect.  Trying to avoid the switch resetting as trips wear down the battery, and so has more even power through the trip.  Easier on the plates, and faster recharge over average use cycles.

Other part was the weight of each of 4 batteries in the two a--b packs. Going over the series 27 size case added too much on my size boat.  The warehouse manager weighed in on the subject, and we came up with a workable solution for my specific needs.  Electric boats are more iong term drain, but also need constant drain power.  Drop off after say an hour or two can make the battery degrade slightly, if run too low, like over half by much.  Even at that mark, the pulling power requires that I crank up the setting, and that is the problem.  I got a pair of specific batteries, for commercial power drains of a more constant nature. 

Still size 27 case, but with 4.1 extra lb. of lead in each case.  Must be a different composition to hold deep charges even longer.  Not commonly offered from what I see, but I won't know till Charlie and I get on the lake today.  After that run around Dexter, this morning maybe 11 or noonish, we will have the first runs and see how they last.  I expect around 20% longer runs, from what the Interstate manager decided looked about right.  If that works I will add another chapter to this, with model numbers. 

AFTER TESTING A COUPLE TIMES. I would use several opinions as to values and output before I give out data.  That way, if somebody else doesn't get the same results, I'm not  the sole source on this. An added 20% or close, at a reasonable price seems good, but we'll see asap.

Stay Tuned,   Cal                      PS____  Depth finder video camera takes a halt for now !!  I'd rather have more run time on Surprise, this was an option I had not seen before, so here goes !!


  

.


Re: Another Kind of Coot

Teresa Pittman
 

Lon had one but it never ran. No idea what happened to it.

“Throw out the radio and take the fiddle down from the wall.”
— Andrew Nelson Lytle, Tennessee, 1930

On Jun 26, 2020, at 1:09 PM, John Kohnen <@Jkohnen> wrote:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/cootworld/

IIRC, Lon, or one of his friends, acquaintances or tenants, had one of these...

--
John <@Jkohnen>
The cabin of a small yacht is truly a wonderful thing; not only will it shelter you from a tempest, but from the other troubles in life, it is a safe retreat. (L. Francis Herreshoff)


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Re: September Columbia Cruise

elaineginader
 

Ha ha good one Mark. I've been hoping for a cruise this year. I have a crew just in case a wind comes up. But if not my hubby Gary and I are working on the motor a bit. Michael suggested to change the spark plugs. I've had her out using the motor (no wind) before she's a dream and super easy to maneuver. 


On Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 7:15 PM Mark Neuhaus <moonlitturtle1934@...> wrote:
Elaine,

Thanks for the info and pic. Very sweet.

I have to warn you, that this time, if anything goes wrong, I refuse to pull it up onto the dock, ala Toledo. 😀



I_.


Re: September Columbia Cruise

Mark Neuhaus
 

Elaine,

Thanks for the info and pic. Very sweet.

I have to warn you, that this time, if anything goes wrong, I refuse to pull it up onto the dock, ala Toledo. 😀



I_.


Re: September Columbia Cruise

elaineginader
 

Thank you John great album. I'm hoping to take Belle out and have as much fun as Michael did. Just need to get the "I don't want to break her" syndrome to go away.


On Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 6:31 PM John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:
It's great that you'll be able to join us for the cruise, Elaine. :o)
Here are some shots of Belle Starr when Michael owned her:

https://preview.tinyurl.com/y596a3lq

or

https://www.flickr.com/search/?user_id=43145927%40N00&sort=date-taken-desc&text=starr&view_all=1


On 8/21/2020 6:18 PM, elaine wrote:
> It's a Stone Horse.
>

--
John <jkohnen@...>
Assistance given to the weak makes the one who gives it strong. (Booker
T. Washington)


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Re: Banta boat

Jhcalbany@aol.com
 

Yep, Dennis the old Coot


Re: September Columbia Cruise

 

It's great that you'll be able to join us for the cruise, Elaine. :o) Here are some shots of Belle Starr when Michael owned her:

https://preview.tinyurl.com/y596a3lq

or

https://www.flickr.com/search/?user_id=43145927%40N00&sort=date-taken-desc&text=starr&view_all=1

On 8/21/2020 6:18 PM, elaine wrote:
It's a Stone Horse.
--
John <@Jkohnen>
Assistance given to the weak makes the one who gives it strong. (Booker T. Washington)
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Re: September Columbia Cruise

elaineginader
 

It's a Stone Horse.


On Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 2:44 PM elaineginader via groups.io <elaineginader=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
It took a bit of looking through Michael's blog " Doryman " but here's the specs 

LOA: 23 feet, 4 inches
LWL: 18 feet, 4 inches
BEAM: 7 feet 1 inch
DRAFT: 3 feet, 4 inches
WEIGHT: 4,490 pounds 
SAIL AREA: 339 square feet 
HULL: full keel, keel-hung rudder
AUXILIARY POWER: outboard in well.

Yes she was Michael's here's a picture. 

On Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 2:20 PM Mark Neuhaus <moonlitturtle1934@...> wrote:
Hi Elaine,

On Thursday, August 20, 2020, elaineginader <elaineginader@...> wrote:

I'm coming, work gave me the time off. I have a first mate so if there's wind we can put Bells sails up. This will be my first messabout and my first real cruise with Belle.

I'm hoping to be among the fleet, too.  Any page with Belle's specs, such as length and draft and pics?

Mark 


Re: September Columbia Cruise

elaineginader
 

It took a bit of looking through Michael's blog " Doryman " but here's the specs 

LOA: 23 feet, 4 inches
LWL: 18 feet, 4 inches
BEAM: 7 feet 1 inch
DRAFT: 3 feet, 4 inches
WEIGHT: 4,490 pounds 
SAIL AREA: 339 square feet 
HULL: full keel, keel-hung rudder
AUXILIARY POWER: outboard in well.

Yes she was Michael's here's a picture. 

On Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 2:20 PM Mark Neuhaus <moonlitturtle1934@...> wrote:
Hi Elaine,

On Thursday, August 20, 2020, elaineginader <elaineginader@...> wrote:

I'm coming, work gave me the time off. I have a first mate so if there's wind we can put Bells sails up. This will be my first messabout and my first real cruise with Belle.

I'm hoping to be among the fleet, too.  Any page with Belle's specs, such as length and draft and pics?

Mark 


Re: September Columbia Cruise

Mark Neuhaus
 

Hi Elaine,

On Thursday, August 20, 2020, elaineginader <elaineginader@...> wrote:

I'm coming, work gave me the time off. I have a first mate so if there's wind we can put Bells sails up. This will be my first messabout and my first real cruise with Belle.

I'm hoping to be among the fleet, too.  Any page with Belle's specs, such as length and draft and pics?

Mark