Date   

Re: Electric Love

Electri-Cal
 

I agree completely with you, John.  Just a touch under hull speed does make life easy, as i'm finding out over time.  Last time at Fern Ridge was good, one battery pack got me close to 3 hours, as a solo weight cruise.  I was stiff getting out, but thats ok for me.  Two biMart 27's does the job, the back up pack is good insurance.  Bi Mart does have access to deep cycle 29 series, I may do that, but it adds 60 pounds  Might make an extra hour at best , but do I need that ??   I'm running at a few less amps, due to less wetted surface, no keel, but as you mentioned, who cares, it's the trip -- without equipment worries -- that does the job.  Recharging is easy, but needs to remember which pack was in use, and charge each one seperately to avoid a charging conflict.  Thinking now about a cover for the behind the seats area, basic arched to match wood cover is roughed our, might do white canvas over that, to make gunnell and transom snap fittings easier than several solid clamps of some kind.  

Just yesterday I finished wiring the 48 volt to 24 V converter.  Now the ev bicycle pack can be the third backup pack.  The new bigger prop for MKota motors awaits testing, new sleeve fits like a charm.  Motor is at Myles place on the coast, so that has to wait a bit.  I have another converter to make the bike pack power a MKota directly also, so ready to go there too, after I get a motor to run all this stuff.  I forger how much run time the bike pack has on paper, but nees a good in water testing. It seems that the pack weighs about half a wet battery, while adding more run time, due to the lower the pack can be drained by a good deal.  Time will tell how this works out, keep fingers crossed.

Lots of stuff to make things better before winter returns ---  Cal


Took awhile

elaineginader
 

Being stuck at home has its advantages. I took my Enterprise sailing/racing dinghy to the Toledo Boat Show last year and as some of you know I had my share of problems. One that has been on my mind was that I couldn't figure out how to keep the rubber down. I've been researching since to figure this dilemma as I would love to sail her on some future Coot messabouts. Today it all came to me and now it'll work correctly. I think I'll bring the Enterprise to the Halloween float just so I can test it out. Or if things work out I may take her to Fern Ridge. We'll see.

Elaine


Re: Electric Trolling Motors (was: Good Girl For Sale)

johnacord
 

John,

Displacement can be deceiving when thinking about moving a hull through the water.  It's not so much the "weight" as it is hull shape which determines the size of the bow wake.  The the bow wake is created by pushing the boat through the water and pushing it requires power.  Complicating this, it's somewhat exponential so that as you increase speed the power required goes up a lot, especially as you approach hull speed (top end of displacement motion).  The electric boat community has worked this out well, and as I recall the rule of thumb is doubling the power for an increase of a knot approaching hull speed.  So moderate speeds, in the realm of half hull speed, can be fairly efficient, like your "leisurely, rate of progress".

Regarding 12 vs 24 volts.  From your examples, 5 amps x 24 V = 120 watts  &  30 amps x 12 V = 360 watts;  lower watts = less losses to heating in all components.  If you are using lead acid batteries, either flooded or AGM, higher amperage cause losses due to the peukert effect which can be quite significant at the higher amperage.

John A


Re: Electric Trolling Motors (was: Good Girl For Sale)

Dan
 

John. I just ordered a "cheap" 65 pound short shaft from the back alleys
of Sri Lanka or some such. But, of course, you brought me up short with
discussion of 24 volts...I still have an unused 24 of unknown thrust--about
65, I think, but gave up on the wiring to also have a full suite of
services on Walkabout. Anyhow, the latest lurch is to drop the gas backup
motor and use the electric as both a maneuvering (twisting around and
anchoring stern first is what we do alluhtime) and with the addition of a
roofmount solar panel I'm hoping to have a get home backup. I gave up on
the twin 4-stroke setup and am back to just the 9.9 Suzi. We lost about
1.5 mph and run at about 500 rpm higher. Mostly what I lost was delusions
of grandeur, with the loss of twins...Somewhere in my checkered past there
was mention of lower tron consumption with higher voltage...is that your
implication with the above "higher math?" Dan.


Electric Trolling Motors (was: Good Girl For Sale)

 

A bit of work with the calculator...

Tuffy's motor (an 80 lb. thrust Minn Kota bolted to the side of the keel -- half of what Cal has on Surprise) eats 5 amps x 24 V = 120 watts at my usual, leisurely, rate of progress.

A Minn Kota 30 lb. thrust motor, at full chat, eats 30 amps x 12 V = 360 watts.

Both motors will produce a bit less power than they consume, but the calculations above are good for comparison.

Tuffy is supposed to weigh 924 lb. Add another hundred for the batteries. Good Girl is supposed to weigh 900 lb., without batteries. But who knows what they really mean by "displacement?" <sigh>

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/neptune-16

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/nordica-16

The 12 volt 30 lb. motor should have plenty of oomph for Good Girl. At full power the 30 will have about as much oomph as Tuffy's running at 15 amps, which is the highest I've run it at so far, except for when maneuvering.

The cheap Minn Kota 30 won't be as efficient at less than full speed as the much more expensive trolling motors with electronic speed control, but I think you'd be better off spending less on the motor and using some of the savings to get a bigger and/or better battery(ies). I'm probably gonna replace Tuffy's flooded lead/acid deep cycle batteries with AGMs someday...

On 8/8/2020 2:20 PM, I wrote:
...
Don't go overboard on an electric trolling motor. I'll bet one of the 30 lb. thrust Minn Kotas will do the job for you, and you can usually find them on sale somewhere for around a hundred bucks.
--
John <@Jkohnen>
The security of the Kingdom is increased by every man being more or less a sailor. (Capt. Marryat)
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Re: Good Girl For Sale

 

Glad you had a good sail, and nobody got too scared. <g> It got a bit brisk out there yesterday afternoon. I've decided I'm getting too old for gusts into the 20s (mph), at least until I get Tuffy's reefing worked out. <g>

The wind can do strange things near Richardson Butte. It's not uncommon to sail across the lake in no time, then spend an hour on the last bit in Richardson Bay. <g> Orchard Point marina is easier to get in and out of, but it's not nearly as nice a park as Richardson.

Don't go overboard on an electric trolling motor. I'll bet one of the 30 lb. thrust Minn Kotas will do the job for you, and you can usually find them on sale somewhere for around a hundred bucks.

On 8/7/2020 8:42 PM, Josh wrote:
We took Good Girl out for a couple hours. Had a stiff breeze on the lake once away from shore. She handled beautiful, this was Rose's first time ever on a sailboat and she had the helm through tacking, jibing and various sail experimenting. Coming back to dock things got interesting, there were strong gusts and in between not enough wind for steerage so we did some funny antics. In the end that part was great practice on changing tacks. Paddles got us back into our slip but we'll definitely get an electric outboard when we can afford to.
We love the boat and are delighted to be the ones to look after her for a while.
--
John <@Jkohnen>
Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assaults of thoughts on the unthinking. (John Maynard Keynes)
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Electric Love

 

Had a nice sail yesterday evening. While out there I was thinking that Tuffy is the easiest sailboat to get out sailing in that I've had at Fern Ridge. Is it the rig? No. There's a jackleg jib cover to deal with when I come back, and a bit too small mainsail cover with a zipper that can be hard to get started in the dark. Handiness getting unmoored and moored again? No. The cleats on the dock don't match up with the cleats on Tuffy adding some extra effort to untying and tying up again.

No, what makes Tuffy so easy to get sailing and then back in her slip is the electric motor! :o) No yanking on a starter cord to get the outboard running. No Noise. Reverse at the touch of a fingertip (I couldn't turn Pearl's outboard around for reverse without hitting the rudder). And it's quiet. When the wind dies in the evening, or, as happened last night, starts blowing right on the nose for the last bit on the way home, I can fire up the electric motor and have a nice peaceful trip back to the slip. Almost as nice as sailing. :o) Maybe even a little better, in a way, because I don't need to pay attention to the sails and can watch the sky and birds and water... On Monday, the full moon was making the fish active and big fish were rising all around me as I neared E Dock. Bass? Carp? Purty neat. :o)

So, I sure do love electric boating. :o)

I don't love lugging the batteries up the ramp and back to the car to take home to charge. <sigh> Gotta get some sort of solar charging system before next year. BTW, I've found that running at about 4-5 amps draw (24 volt) gets Tuffy along just fine for my purposes. Probably about the same speed I prefer when using the Honda on my other boats, with the motor just putting along slowly, not making an unpleasant noise.

--
John <@Jkohnen>
People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. (Isaac Asimov)


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Re: Underwater Vision Update

 

They probably just abandoned a wheelbarrow or two when they were done building the dam. ;o)

It'll be interesting to see how the different props work on the trolling motors. Be sure to keep your eye on the ammeter when doing your trials.

On 8/8/2020 5:05 AM, Electri-Cal wrote:
Ah, yep !  Good article, maybe we can find thet 'ol locomotive or whatever in the spring, with max. clearer water levels.  The bushing Charlie and I coccockted is good for all larger props, I used a drill bit to check sizes so now a lot more props are available for testing.
...
--
John <@Jkohnen>
If we do not provide against corruption, our government will soon be at an end. (George Mason at the start of the Constitutional Convention)
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Re: Yeah, until the trailer wiring didn't work !!

Electri-Cal
 

Guess I posted this, but just in case.  Yep, made new connector wires, and a spare for the back tool box while I had the stuff out. !!      Hah ,   Cal


Re: Underwater Vision Update

Electri-Cal
 

Ah, yep !  Good article, maybe we can find thet 'ol locomotive or whatever in the spring, with max. clearer water levels.  The bushing Charlie and I coccockted is good for all larger props, I used a drill bit to check sizes so now a lot more props are available for testing.  I think i'll get one more, or both of the two available locally.  If we find a super duper combo, I can press fit to make a permanent adaptor easy.   Depth camera not so easy, that is experimental, but i'm getting closer, ---  now to get lucky !!!  I didn't see many fish the other day, but looked at "pings" on maybe 8 that I would count.  A bit much chemical crud to eat any though, unless fertilizer runoff is tastier than I think.

Later,   Cal


Re: Good Girl For Sale

Joe Novello
 

Josh - I’m so happy for you. It was meant to be, I’m glad it is working out - she is truly a Good Girl!

Joe

PS - John’s advice about tell tales is spot on! After 50 years of sailing I still use them.



On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 8:42 PM Josh <roseandthistlecustom@...> wrote:

We took Good Girl out for a couple hours. Had a stiff breeze on the lake once away from shore. She handled beautiful, this was Rose's first time ever on a sailboat and she had the helm through tacking, jibing and various sail experimenting. Coming back to dock things got interesting, there were strong gusts and in between not enough wind for steerage so we did some funny antics. In the end that part was great practice on changing tacks. Paddles got us back into our slip but we'll definitely get an electric outboard when we can afford to. 
We love the boat and are delighted to be the ones to look after her for a while. 

--
Joe Novello


Re: Good Girl For Sale

Josh
 


We took Good Girl out for a couple hours. Had a stiff breeze on the lake once away from shore. She handled beautiful, this was Rose's first time ever on a sailboat and she had the helm through tacking, jibing and various sail experimenting. Coming back to dock things got interesting, there were strong gusts and in between not enough wind for steerage so we did some funny antics. In the end that part was great practice on changing tacks. Paddles got us back into our slip but we'll definitely get an electric outboard when we can afford to. 
We love the boat and are delighted to be the ones to look after her for a while. 


Re: Underwater Lights and -- an added MK adaptor prop note !!!

 

The bright light will probably just bounce back off the silt and algae, just like bright lights do when driving in fog. I wonder if the infrared sensors will see right through the muck...

You mean that you adapted an 80 lb. thrust propeller to a 40 lb. thrust motor? Hook up an ammeter before doing any tests, so you can see if you're overtaxing the motor.

Myles boat is a Scamp. Yep, he bought one instead of building from a kit. <g> He's got a slip at Mercer Lake.

Have fun!

On 8/7/2020 8:34 AM, Electri-Cal wrote:
As an dddition, I have a 60 led high power underwater light coming in. Billed as a fishing green tinted bait attractant, I thought it might also cut through the crud if I needed more light down there.  Ordered that before I trashed the first set up, darn it.  Might be a workable on the next one, but might not need it -- with infrared and a LOT of lights, who knows??  I can drop the big light, than lower the TV type to see if anything helps.  This just for fun, research only --- obviously not doing all this mess when heading at a shore line.
You'all will love this!!  I finally got the larger Minn kota  80 lb push, two blade prop adapted to the 40 hp size shaft, and  Working on good clearance with case edges . Now a bit  more push is expected.  Also will be making one for the bigger 3 bladed Kipawa 80 lb to a 40 size transom mount, shaft -- with care to not overload the motor.  Making a control panel for that too.  Stay tuned, as I'm looking for more push at slower speeds -- but using a commonly available motor size.  Stay tuned for that also, Charlie and I came up with this for Myles boat, on the coast with a gusty and windy lake. . Yeah, some concern about a mount that will take the extra side torque with this.
Later, Got more to do Huff, Puff !! -----  Cal
--
John <@Jkohnen>
Kindness is in our power, even when fondness is not. (Samuel Johnson)
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Re: Underwater Vision Update

 

1 1/2 props, and counting... ;o) But you're having fun. :o)

Charley knows a fellow whose family owned some property that's now at the bottom of Fern Ridge. May be a Richardson, I don't recall. Anyway, he told Charley that when They finished building the dam in 1941 They abandoned a steam locomotive in what's now the deepest part of the lake, by the spillway -- "the part where it's a hundred feet deep." Hmmm... Methinks the tale might have grown in the telling. <g> Maybe some equipment was abandoned on the future lakebed, but over the years the size of that equipment, and the depth, have grown significantly. ;o)

https://oregonlakesatlas.org/lake/17090003017645#text-section

On 8/7/2020 8:09 AM, Electri-Cal wrote:
Hi, John -- Yep so far I could have bought 1 1/2 props for those bucks. ...
Charlies friend had what equipment to use?? ...
--
John <@Jkohnen>
Only ignorance! Only ignorance! How can you talk about only ignorance? Don't you know that it is the worst thing in the world, next to wickedness? (Anna Sewell)
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Re: Good Girl For Sale

 

Congratulations, Josh and Rose.

Here's a bit of advice that's not just for newbies to sailing -- if Good Girl doesn't have telltales on the jib, at least, put some on. Telltales let you see how the wind is flowing over the sails before the sail begins to luff, or you notice a loss of power from the sail stalling. Basically, when sailing above a broad reach, you want the jib telltales to stream back on both sides of the sail, then trim the main so it's just not luffing. or if it's got luff telltales they're steaming on both sides. Everybody is a better sailor with telltales, no matter what some old salts might say. <g>

"Some old salts refer to telltales as training wheels, preferring instead to watch the luffs of their sails as a guide to trimming sails and steering the boat. Yet telltales provide a far more accurate indication of optimum sail trim and course to steer than do the sails themselves. Not using them is like relying on your senses of hearing, touch and smell rather than your engine gauges to determine if your engine is operating efficiently."

http://www.jasperandbailey.com/tech/news.html

http://www.wyc.org.uk/fevanationals/docs/luff_telltales.pdf

http://www.jasperandbailey.com/tech/news.html

On 8/7/2020 5:53 AM, Toledo wrote:
Greetings All,
Good Girl has new caretakers. Recent Coots members Rose and Josh Mead took ownership on Thursday.   Good Girl will be staying in Eugene and on Fern Ridge until the water runs out. Rose and Josh are experienced boaters, but new to sailing. I'm sure they will be having a lot of fun on this new adventure. There may be opportunities for some of our members to offer them advice on their new journey.
Thank you all for the many inquiries.
--
John <@Jkohnen>
Procrastination is the art of keeping up with yesterday. (Don Marquis)
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Underwater Lights and -- an added MK adaptor prop note !!!

Electri-Cal
 

As an dddition, I have a 60 led high power underwater light coming in.  Billed as a fishing green tinted bait attractant, I thought it might also cut through the crud if I needed more light down there.  Ordered that before I trashed the first set up, darn it.  Might be a workable on the next one, but might not need it -- with infrared and a LOT of lights, who knows??  I can drop the big light, than lower the TV type to see if anything helps.  This just for fun, research only --- obviously not doing all this mess when heading at a shore line.  

You'all will love this!!  I finally got the larger Minn kota  80 lb push, two blade prop adapted to the 40 hp size shaft, and  Working on good clearance with case edges . Now a bit  more push is expected.  Also will be making one for the bigger 3 bladed Kipawa 80 lb to a 40 size transom mount, shaft -- with care to not overload the motor.  Making a control panel for that too.  Stay tuned, as I'm looking for more push at slower speeds -- but using a commonly available motor size.  Stay tuned for that also, Charlie and I came up with this for Myles boat, on the coast with a gusty and windy lake. . Yeah, some concern about a mount that will take the extra side torque with this.


Later, Got more to do Huff, Puff !! -----  Cal                       


Re: Underwater Vision Update

Electri-Cal
 

Hi, John -- Yep so far I could have bought 1 1/2 props for those bucks.  Would like to nsee below that summer algae cloud though.  Yes, you did do that, thanks back at you for the heads up.  However, i'm not one to be deterred without a bit more checking.  Charlies friend had what equipment to use??  Mine did not work as well as hoped, partly because not enough light source.  Then I broke the lens, and stopped the whole operation, but I did learn that you cannot see without a bigger unit and better vision.  I found one with both regular and NIGHT VISION sensors, more money but could make it all better, or not !!  For the cost, I need a good idea that will work, gotta pay to play.  Bigger sensor, more light is Probably Better from 1 ft down ??

Too bad the bigger unit I bought -- that comes in 3 plug in parts is a non starter, nobody can seem to get a picture on the screen, ---  defective, accidental short, trial and misplugging, factory defect, stupidity  or other ???  I do have a 12 volt lab power source, so I can bench test, an important part when looking at different systems to install later in the boat.

I now know a forward facing very small 3/8 inch tube depth finder most likely will not work, so a  bigger and brighter camers is the next "look see" with more research added.  I will probably mount it on the side where I can lower, and raise it easier.  I would like a sender that wirelessly transmits to my phone, but then I would probably have the stereo bluetooth sound system interfering with the depth signal.  The electric motor power is hard on the depth finder as it is, starts overloading the screen with static at over lower trolling speeds.


Re: Good Girl For Sale

Joe Novello
 

Greetings All,

Good Girl has new caretakers. Recent Coots members Rose and Josh Mead took ownership on Thursday.   Good Girl will be staying in Eugene and on Fern Ridge until the water runs out. Rose and Josh are experienced boaters, but new to sailing. I'm sure they will be having a lot of fun on this new adventure. There may be opportunities for some of our members to offer them advice on their new journey.  

Thank you all for the many inquiries.

Joe



On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 6:15 PM Joe Novello <joenovello3@...> wrote:
Hi All,

I’m sure some of you know this boat. Andrew Linn spent a lot of time really sprucing her up with new rigging and a new weighted centerboard.  I’ve had the boat just about a year and have kept her up with new varnish, sparfly and some lines. 

COVID happened and the Salish 100 didn’t, which is what I bought the boat for. I’ve been sailing it in Eugene and have the slip there for another month.  I’m selling the boat for what I paid $1200 which is a fantastic deal.   I’m posting it here before I do a blitz on the internet. It would be cool for one of our own crew to get it.  

Good Girl is a Neptune 16. You can find out all kinds of information about her on the internet, or contact me if you have any questions.  I’ll say it is one of the easiest boats I’ve ever sailed and unbelievably stable - I can stand on the rail, even with the board up and it hardly lists.  It’s just a fantastic boat.  

Please respond to me: joenovello3@... if you are interested.  


--
Joe Novello


Re: Lower Columbia River info

Claire Acord
 

Mark and John,
could you maybe put an editable PDF or some such document up on the Coots page to allow others to add their experiences/edits?
kind of crowd sourcing for voyagers?
cheers
Claire


Stay afloat with current events....visit Traditional Small Craft Association - Puget Sound's website:
http://www.tscapuget.org
Claire Acord


On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 8:52 PM John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:
If you aren't a practicing HTML nerd, Mark, you can send the info to me
and I'll make it fit into the old-fashioned style of the coots.org pages.

I do my Web pages "by hand" in a text editor, but I've got a lot of
boiler plate that makes it easier.

On 8/5/2020 5:24 PM, Mark N wrote:
> ...
>
>     Are you an HTML nerd, Mark?
>
>
>   Back at the dawning of the web, writing html was pretty simple and I
> did some stuff using notepad and other text editors. Nowadays, it's way
> too complicated and I have no need to write pages, so haven't bothered
> to keep up with the coding. I guess I'm a retired nerd?

--
John <jkohnen@...>
Education is a private matter between the person and the world of
knowledge and experience, and has little to do with school or college.
(Lillian Smith)


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Re: Underwater Vision Update

 

How many broken propellers could you have replaced with the money you're spending on your underwater vision project? ;o)

I know, I know, the fun of playing around with the gadgets is priceless. :o)

I think I warned you that when you got the underwater camera working you'd go searching for clear lakes. <g> It's not algae that make Fern Ridge opaque. There's a lot of fine clay that gets suspended in the water, so even in that deep spot by the dam where Charley's friend says the abandoned locomotive lies you can't see anything.

On 8/4/2020 6:12 PM, Electri-Cal wrote:
AARGH !!  I made a mount for holding the sensor on a pole underwater, another trial rig for dry mounting through the hull, with the syn. sapphire watch chrystal lens,  The sensor// camera pickup got lodged in the mount, s I carefully CRACKED the built in lens.  Now to decide if I want to try that again, or go for the as advertised "fishing " camera which is over an inch bigger.  It does have regular and infrared lights for night vision, a very tempting thought for the extra bucks.  Bigger screen, longer range, etc., so if I wanted to start over it basically is another unit, that is more bucks.  Thinking about that  more versatile drop tube or flip up holder for better access without holes or through hull mounts, stay tuned as I will get this set to show those pesky rocks and stuff that eats props.  DARN< DARN< DARN !!!
--
John <@Jkohnen>
What is more pleasant than a friendly little yacht, a long stretch of smooth water, a gentle breeze, the stars? (Billy Atkin)
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