Yes Andy, I extend my positive thoughts on your finding the 2m rig in good
shape.

Jack
KI7WP

Welcome to the Upper Willamette Valley Messabout Mailing List!

The purpose of this mailing list is to help smallboaters who live in
the upper Willamette Valley get together to share their passion with
other local boat buffs. We can use this forum to discuss good places
to boat in our area, to arrange Messabouts, to pass the word about
other boating get-togethers, to share pictures and boating tales, to
keep in touch with other boaters, and (of course) to just talk about
boats.

I live in Eugene, and it's my list ;O), so I think a good area for
us to plan Messabouts is within about a 2 hour drive from my
driveway, any more than that becomes a burden for a one day round
trip, and I wouldn't want to be going even that far all the time.
That covers a lot of water though, from Siletz Bay down to Bandon on
the coast; from Detroit Lake to Diamond Lake and over to Waldo and
maybe the lakes on Century Drive in the Cascades, and all the way
down the Willamette Valley. But there are no rules here except to be
polite to each other, so if you have an idea about an event further
afield, throw it out and see if you can get anybody interested.

This list/group is unmoderated, I won't check every message for
suitability before it's posted, but I can chuck anyone out who
causes too much trouble! So please be polite and avoid flaming, keep
your language clean (I'm not bothered by cuss words, but I don't
want to scare off those who are, and cursing is rarely necessary)
and keep your postings boating related. Please stay away from
politics, unless DIRECTLY related to boating!

I recommend receiving list messages via email (Yahoo's default). You
can set your mail program to filter list messages into a separate
folder; every list message will have "[MessaboutW]" starting the
subject line. If you'd prefer reading messages online, or if you
leave town and don't want tocome back to a full mailbox, you can
tell Yahoo not to mail messages to you, and you can read them from
the Web page after signing in:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MessaboutW/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

MessaboutW-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Have fun!

John Kohnen
jkohnen@boat-links.com


--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
http://www.boat-links.com/
Nobody ought to wear a Greek fisherman's hat unless they meet two conditions:
1. He is a Greek
2. He is a Fisherman <Roy Blount Jr.>

Good morning John,
Thanks for setting up the list. I look forward to making the next
gathering -- it sounds like this past weekend was great. Sorry to
have missed it but May is the month of birthdays and growing things
so was too overwhelmed for the trip.
Later - Larry Barker Talent, OR

Hi John

Nice to meet you in person too. Thanks for starting this group.
I think that's what these "Messabouts" things are supposed to to.
I know there are a lot us nuts out here that labor away, usually
alone, to build and enjoy small boats, and may sometimes wonder
if we are the only ones that are so "Crazy". Then you find a
group like this, and find there are a lot of "Crazy" people
out there too. (Kind of comforting, or maybe frightening,
I'm not sure which.)
While emails and groups like Bolger and the others can answer
questions and get us information, there's nothing like meeting and
talking with like minds. (Again maybe frightening)

I'm in Molalla, which make Eugene about three hours by car, or
three weeks by "Toad", but am only a couple of miles from the
Molalla River, so it could be done, but mostly uphill to your
place.

I am unclear on exactly what a "Messabout" is.
I have the idea, but are they usually just one day affairs?


Thanks again
The Silicone age does have it's advantages, and it would be
difficult to contact everyone via a wooden abacus.

Take care
Pat Patteson
Molalla, Oregon



--- In MessaboutW@y..., jhkohnen@b... wrote:

Welcome to the Upper Willamette Valley Messabout Mailing List!

The purpose of this mailing list is to help smallboaters who live in
the upper Willamette Valley get together to share their passion with
other local boat buffs. We can use this forum to discuss good places
to boat in our area, to arrange Messabouts, to pass the word about
other boating get-togethers, to share pictures and boating tales, to
keep in touch with other boaters, and (of course) to just talk about
boats.

I live in Eugene, and it's my list ;O), so I think a good area for
us to plan Messabouts is within about a 2 hour drive from my
driveway, any more than that becomes a burden for a one day round
trip, and I wouldn't want to be going even that far all the time.
That covers a lot of water though, from Siletz Bay down to Bandon on
the coast; from Detroit Lake to Diamond Lake and over to Waldo and
maybe the lakes on Century Drive in the Cascades, and all the way
down the Willamette Valley. But there are no rules here except to be
polite to each other, so if you have an idea about an event further
afield, throw it out and see if you can get anybody interested.

This list/group is unmoderated, I won't check every message for
suitability before it's posted, but I can chuck anyone out who
causes too much trouble! So please be polite and avoid flaming, keep
your language clean (I'm not bothered by cuss words, but I don't
want to scare off those who are, and cursing is rarely necessary)
and keep your postings boating related. Please stay away from
politics, unless DIRECTLY related to boating!

I recommend receiving list messages via email (Yahoo's default). You
can set your mail program to filter list messages into a separate
folder; every list message will have "[MessaboutW]" starting the
subject line. If you'd prefer reading messages online, or if you
leave town and don't want tocome back to a full mailbox, you can
tell Yahoo not to mail messages to you, and you can read them from
the Web page after signing in:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MessaboutW/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

MessaboutW-unsubscribe@y...

Have fun!

John Kohnen
jkohnen@b...


--
John <jkohnen@b...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
Nobody ought to wear a Greek fisherman's hat unless they meet two

conditions:

1. He is a Greek
2. He is a Fisherman <Roy Blount Jr.>

John, I also appreciate your setting up the new Upper Willamette
Group. Although we had only a small group at Dexter Lake last
Saturday, it was very enjoyable. Begin with beautiful weather,
gentle winds, lovely lake and scenery. Add to this a group with
common love of small wooden boats, stir in a measure of "boat talk"
and you have the recipe for a very pleasant "Messabout Day".
I am looking forward to more messabouts and more members and hope
that this site will serve as a central clearing house for small boat
news in our area. Also include an exchange of ideas and comments
regarding, building, maintaining or operating our craft
Incidently John, thanks for the ride in "Pickle", I enjoyed it very
much.
John Thorpe

Does anyone have the number for the guy in Roseburg that sells native
hardwoods? I can't find it in any directory, yp, directory service,
I've asked around. Anyway, I understand he sells green oak and I
have a steambending project coming up and I'm in search of
inexpensive green oak.

I'll tell you a bit about this project, I'm pretty excited about it
and I love talking boats. Also, John wanted to hear more about this
project. I really got into banks dorys and other New England style
dories and small craft in general that do not require a combustion
engine for propulsion, so this project I'm doing is a bit not like
me, but nonetheless, I still get excited about it. It is a
restoration/rennovation project of a 1960's Cruiser's Inc. 16'
runabout. I think it's the utility of the runabout that get's me
stoked. It's a great camping boat, a great lake/picnic boat, a good
exploration boat say from a converted Troller in the San Juans, a
good lake fishing boat, or estuary crabbing boat, and I hate to say
it, but it's also a decent water skiing boat. I think that will
llkley be that last thing I do with it, however, I have to admit that
it would be kinda fun.

I got the boat for free from a guy in Eugene who was planning, like a
lot of us, to completely restore the boat, but because he found
another 1960's Cruiser, 18-footer, in better condition, decided to
make that the project and give up the one he was working on. He
rebuilt the keel, laminated a new stem, and cleaned and recaulked the
lapstrake joints between each plank on the forward half of the
vessel. A fair amount of work to give up, but I was happy to take it
off his hands. There is quite a bit of work to do on it, but it
sounds like the windshield and seats, all mahoghany, except the
glass, of course, are in fair condition and will likely need little
more than a good refinishing. I have a sneaking suspicion that I
came across this same boat two owners ago in Springfield (3 years
ago) being offered for $100 dollars, If that was it, then I guess it
pays to wait.

Gottago, thanks in advance and thanks to John for putting this
together.

Bryn: I'm not sure of the guys name, but try the following address:

All Native Hardwoods
850 Del Rio Rd ROSEBURG OR (541) 672-8851


Jack Brown

Pat-

I'm not sure exactly what a messabout is either, the one at Dexter Lake the
other day was the first one I'd ever been near. I guess they're just boats
and people, a place to use the boats and a place to stand or sit around
and jaw about boats. I was a bit doubtful about Dexter's suitability for
messing about, since it's not very big and kinda boring, but in the event
it worked out very well. People really didn't want to venture too far from
the beach (and the jawing about boats) anyway, so the lack of interesting
places to go didn't matter, and that picnic table under the trees right by
the beach was perfect for sitting around talking. For the kind of messabout
we had last Saturday it turned out to be just about perfect. But I can
think of other kinds of messabouts that could be just as much fun. <shrug>
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? <g>

I don't suppose there's any reason why a messabout _has_ to be a one day
affair. By nature a messabout should be informal though, and multi-day
affairs involve more preparation and commitment from participants. Trying
to put together too many multi-day messabouts in a year might overwhelm us.

BTW, I just bought a "land yacht" today! I stopped at a little store to get
a box of sugar for my girlfriend and lo and behold there was a van
conversion for sale across the street. Not long thereafter I'd put my
deposit on a '77 Dodge "Cobra" class B moho. Purrs like a kitten, but of
course needs a little work. Now it'll be easier to lure me to multi-day
gatherings in remote areas, since I won't have to try to rest my
middle-aged bones sleeping on the ground or in the back of my pickup.

Three hours to drive to Eugene from Molalla? What've you got a Model T? <g>
Find a piece of water closer to home and invite us down there to try it
out. ;O)

--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
http://www.boat-links.com/
Love is the delightful interval between meeting a beautiful girl and
discovering she looks like a haddock. <John Barrymore>

Bryn-

Sounds like a good project. When you mentioned a free "cruiser" I imagined
a big cabin cruiser or oceangoing sailboat! <g> A 16' runabout is a nice,
manageable project.

I've got a confession to make too; I bought a motorboat myself last year,
"for practical reasons" I told my GF, but she laughed. Actually, motorboats
do have some utility even for a messing about sort of person. I got mine
for going places far from the launch ramp (like much of Coos Bay), or where
there's a lot of tide or current, or maybe chasing around taking pictures.
I guess the need wasn't all that pressing, because I still haven't got it
into the water. <g> The engine (Merc 250) started up with just a few pulls
and sounded real good, but it didn't pump any water. It turns out that old
Mercs' water pumps live way up in the leg and require a special tool for
extraction, and even with the tool you can't always get them out! :o( So,
I'm looking for an OMC 25. The trouble is that I don't really _like_
motorboats much (except quite low powered ones), despite their utility, so
I haven't been looking very hard. The boat is a 16' 1962 Crestliner;
aluminum and rough looking but with nice lines.

Good luck with your project! Is your runabout outboard powered?

--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
http://www.boat-links.com/
Nobody ought to wear a Greek fisherman's hat unless they meet two conditions:
1. He is a Greek
2. He is a Fisherman <Roy Blount Jr.>

Being mostly retired and able to sail on weekdays I was planning on not
going anywhere this weekend, 'cause everybody else and their cousin will be
out there. But I might be tempted out onto the water if somebody knows
someplace that won't be infested with speedboats and PWCs and where the
ramps won't be clogged with inept idiots. Any ideas?

--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
http://www.boat-links.com/
Missionaries, my Dear! Don't you realize that missionaries are the divinely
provided food for destitute cannibals? Whenever they are on the brink of
starvation, Heaven in its infinite mercy send them a nice plump missionary.
<Oscar Wilde>

Here are some pictures I took at the Messabout on Dexter Lake last week:

http://www.boat-links.com/messabout/01/Messabout-1.html

--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
http://www.boat-links.com/
Nobody ought to wear a Greek fisherman's hat unless they meet two conditions:
1. He is a Greek
2. He is a Fisherman <Roy Blount Jr.>

Yes the runabout is outboard powered, I beleive the old add for the cruiser
has a 60 hp or maybe 70, which is a bit small for today's standards. I
would like to have a Honda 4 stroke, 70 or something similar, however it
will likely be more than I can afford and I'll have to go back to wind and
human power. Speaking of, the photo's of Dexter are great. I got the urge
to look for a nice sailing dory plan from the Gradner book after I saw those
photos. Scott's got a nice looking boat, well they are all nice. The
swampsoctt or Gunning, or possibly the Alpha beach comer is on my list of
future boats.

When you mentioned a "land yacht" I imagined a sailing land yacht like the
kind you find in the Alvord or Black Rock Desert. I have always wanted to
build a wooden land yacht, gaff-rigged, and show up at one of the land yacht
festivals with all the aluminum and fiberglass and high-tech gear.

Bytheway - Thanks Jack for the info on Hardwood. I haven't called for
prices of green (red) oak yet, but I do know that at Cross-cut in Eugene,
the price is $1.75 a board foot. Which is half the price of the kiln-dried
oak, special order, though. I believe that is red oak and from my limited
experience with boat construction, I think the white oak is supposed to be
superior to the red for steam bending. We'll see.

Bryn,
Thanks for all the help at DePoe Bay. I felt so useless see you and
my son Chad carrying my (I think it's actually his now) Folbot up
that ramp in the rain. I used to do that stuff when I was your
age, but now relegated to carrying life jackets. The torch is
passed to the next generation. May you do better thatn we did.
Your Dory event is going to be a regular.

I would Not use Red Oak for anything in a boat.
I build furniture for a living, and work with Red Oak all the time.
The difference is that Red Oak has hollow cells. You can actually
take a piece and blow bubbles through it just like a straw. Try it
sometime, it's kind of interesting.
You can imagine what water would do to it, unless you plan on
saturating the whole thing with epoxy.
White Oak is solid, not hollow.

Don't know exactly where you can get it, but I think even Oregon
White Oak would be better than green Red.

Might try one of the local small small sawmills, or check with
someone that has a mobile diminsional mill.
Also fire wood places. Might be able to build a boat of firewood.
Just get to it befor it gets cuts to leangths, and take it to a local
mill, or even a cabinet shop that has a large bandsaw.
Or if the pieces are small enough, use a fro and if it is green
should be able to spit it, and it will bend much stronger and better
than sawn.
Natural grain. Not cut across the grain.
What kind of leanths and diminsions to you need. I'll look around
here and see what I can find. We have several local small small
mills that could cut you what you want.

Pat (Toad) Patteson
Molalla, Oregon
pateson@colton.com


--- In MessaboutW@y..., thoms.bryn@d... wrote:

Yes the runabout is outboard powered, I beleive the old add for the

cruiser

has a 60 hp or maybe 70, which is a bit small for today's

standards. I

would like to have a Honda 4 stroke, 70 or something similar,

however it

will likely be more than I can afford and I'll have to go back to

wind and

human power. Speaking of, the photo's of Dexter are great. I got

the urge

to look for a nice sailing dory plan from the Gradner book after I

saw those

photos. Scott's got a nice looking boat, well they are all nice.

The

swampsoctt or Gunning, or possibly the Alpha beach comer is on my

list of

future boats.

When you mentioned a "land yacht" I imagined a sailing land yacht

like the

kind you find in the Alvord or Black Rock Desert. I have always

wanted to

build a wooden land yacht, gaff-rigged, and show up at one of the

land yacht

festivals with all the aluminum and fiberglass and high-tech gear.

Bytheway - Thanks Jack for the info on Hardwood. I haven't called

for

prices of green (red) oak yet, but I do know that at Cross-cut in

Eugene,

the price is $1.75 a board foot. Which is half the price of the

kiln-dried

oak, special order, though. I believe that is red oak and from my

limited

experience with boat construction, I think the white oak is

supposed to be

superior to the red for steam bending. We'll see.


-----Original Message-----
From: jhkohnen@b... [mailto:jhkohnen@b...]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 11:14 PM
To: MessaboutW@y...
Subject: Re: [MessaboutW] Roseburg Hardwood Supplier


Bryn-

Sounds like a good project. When you mentioned a free "cruiser" I

imagined

a big cabin cruiser or oceangoing sailboat! <g> A 16' runabout is a

nice,

manageable project.

I've got a confession to make too; I bought a motorboat myself last

year,

"for practical reasons" I told my GF, but she laughed. Actually,

motorboats

do have some utility even for a messing about sort of person. I got

mine

for going places far from the launch ramp (like much of Coos Bay),

or where

there's a lot of tide or current, or maybe chasing around taking

pictures.

I guess the need wasn't all that pressing, because I still haven't

got it

into the water. <g> The engine (Merc 250) started up with just a

few pulls

and sounded real good, but it didn't pump any water. It turns out

that old

Mercs' water pumps live way up in the leg and require a special

tool for

extraction, and even with the tool you can't always get them out! :o

( So,

I'm looking for an OMC 25. The trouble is that I don't really _like_
motorboats much (except quite low powered ones), despite their

utility, so

I haven't been looking very hard. The boat is a 16' 1962 Crestliner;
aluminum and rough looking but with nice lines.

Good luck with your project! Is your runabout outboard powered?

On Wed, 23 May 2001 20:37:38 -0000, Bryn Thoms wrote:

...
I'll tell you a bit about this project, I'm pretty excited about

it

and I love talking boats. Also, John wanted to hear more about

this

project. I really got into banks dorys and other New England

style

dories and small craft in general that do not require a

combustion

engine for propulsion, so this project I'm doing is a bit not

like

me, but nonetheless, I still get excited about it. It is a
restoration/rennovation project of a 1960's Cruiser's Inc. 16'
runabout. I think it's the utility of the runabout that get's me
stoked....

--
John <jkohnen@b...>
http://www.boat-links.com/
Nobody ought to wear a Greek fisherman's hat unless they meet two
conditions:
1. He is a Greek
2. He is a Fisherman <Roy Blount Jr.>



No flaming, cursing or public mopery. Please be polite.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
MessaboutW-unsubscribe@y...



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

I had a sail this afternoon on Dorena Lake, southeast of Cottage Grove.
It's a nice lake, bigger than Dexter (1840 acres vs. 1025), clean water and
fairly deep except at the upper end. The county park I launched at, Baker
Bay, has beaches and picnic tables in the shade nearby. There are a bunch
of nice campsites (no electric or water hookups though), many right on the
lake and just about all with a lake view.

I think Baker Bay Park'd be a very good spot for a messabout, but we'd have
to do it early in the summer since the corps of Engineers is going to use
the water in Dorena to dilute Cottage Grove's sewage when natural stream
flows go down later in the season. I'll put a chart of expected lake levels
in the files section. The ramp at Baker Bay is pretty shallow and might be
unusable when the water goes down. Right now the lake is full to the brim,
a bit above the normal maximum pool level.

Other downsides to Dorena are the hills all around it that cause the wind
to be very fickle (though some of them are scenic anyway), a single ramp at
Baker Bay that may get clogged on a summer weekend (but there are one or
two other launch sites on the lake), and the lake is kind of boring (except
for the challenge of dealing with the wind coming from all different
directions). I guess I've been spoiled by sailing on Fern Ridge so much,
there's nothing like dodging stumps and running aground on the mud to make
a sail interesting! <g> An interesting sailing spot isn't necessary for a
messabout though, as long as interesting boats and people show up.

There were some interesting boats at Dorena today: a nice big sailing dory
that seems to live there, a light Wispish rowboat and an interesting little
FG double ender built by Eddon Boat of Gig Harbor. There were also a
couple of WindRider trimarans that look like they'd be fun. Apparently the
water cops don't go to Dorena because _most_ of the boats I saw drawn up on
the beaches had either no registration stickers (or even numbers in some
cases!) or expired ones, some from the '80s!

There was hardly anybody at Baker Bay or on the lake today (the only PWC
showed up after I'd pulled out), but that will probably change when summer
officially arrives, since Dorena is one of the few valley area lakes that
will have water in it this year, at least for a while.


--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
http://www.boat-links.com/
I cannot help thinking that the people with motor boats miss a great deal.
If they would only keep to rowboats or canoes, and use oar or paddle...
they would get infinitely more benefit than by having their work done for
them by gasoline. <Theodore Roosevelt>

Happened on a book entitled: "A Fighting Chance", by John Ridgway and
Chay Blyth, J. B. Lippincott Co., Philadelphia, New York (1967).
It's about these two characters that rowed across the Atlantic in a
20' dory. They rowed from Cape Cod to Galway, Ireland in 90 days.
The dory is one foot longer than my dory. So plans for my wife and I
to row from Depoe Bay to Newport don't sound so hair raising after
all. Perhaps this could be the subject of a future messabout. It's
about a 14 mile trip.

A paragraph from the book:

"The waves were like mountains and bigger than any we had seen up
until now. Their tops were sliced flat by the wind, and they came
toward us frighteningly fast and with a noise like a plane on full
throttle. We learned to judge by their speed and sound which waves
would break into the boat and which would hit us smack on."

Wow!

Jack

John, enjoyed your pictures from the messabout. You came up with
some nice shots. Thanks for taking the time and effort to record for
posterity.

John T.

Yes, maybe we should try to add the dory event to the list of activities at
Depoe Bay. I'll tell all a bit about this.

I left my dory on the boat ramp, pulled up high and dry but not tied up. I
went to get the truck at the sea wall and bring it around to the boat ramp.
While at the seawall someone said, "hey isn't that your dory floating away?"
"uh oh". Anyway Scott grabbed the Challenger and he and I went out to bring
her home. Well this time at the boat ramp I tied her up and while doing so
realized my initial mistake, a gentle swell topped my knee boots. Ding
dong!, yeah we're on the coast now Bryn, and it may not look like waves are
coming in, but they sure were. I guess that's what happens to valley boys
like me that don't get out to the coast much.

Hey, John, this list serve is exactly what I needed to stray from work.
Good job. This is going to be like morning coffee and morning
constitutionals for me. A necessity

Thanks, Toad, for your info on Red oak, verses white oak. I have noticed
the difference at least with glueing properties between the two. So have
you actually been able to fro oak and creat decent lengths for say, ribs
about 4 to 5' in length. That sounds like a tough job. I imagine there
would be a fair amount of planing and bandsawing to clean it up.

Dorena sounds great. If we made a weekend out of it, we might be able to
make a short field trip to the Bohemia mining district, that's not boats,
but it's good history. What about Waldo? There's usually lots of wind and
always limited powerboats due to the 10 mph restriction. Gottagetbacktowork

The "Runaway Dory" race is already on the list of events for next
year. Jack Brown says it's a "Must Have."
Sure was the highlight of Sunday.
Ocean big. Ocean win. "Mother nature bats last."
Remind your fellow DEQ folks of that.

I have not personally tried to split a 6' white oak log, but
I have a friend that makes Wooden Bows (like bow and arrows).
He works with all kind of native green woods and I am pretty
sure he would know how to do it, if anyone does. A lost art.
I have a call in to him, and will let you know what I find out.
That one of the interesting things about building wooden boats.
There are a lot of "Lost arts" that were "common knowlege", that we
now have to relearn, and reteach to others. Is that "Progress"?
The Native Americans "just built a canoe" if they needed one.
No big deal. And a lot of the early "Pioneer folks"
"just built a boat". Cut a tree, split the planks and ribs,
and you have a boat. No big deal.

Try to learn how to live, and teach.

If the electic power goes out now, a lot of people would die.

Pat Patteson
Molalla, Oregon

--- In MessaboutW@e..., thoms.bryn@d... wrote:

Yes, maybe we should try to add the dory event to the list of

activities at

Jack-

An ocean row from Depoe Bay to Newport might be a bit too much excitement
for many of us. Maybe we'll have a messabout in Yaquina Bay and be there to
meet you. <g>

--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
http://www.boat-links.com/
The only way to keep your health is to eat what you don't want, drink what
you don't like, and do what you'd rather not. <Mark Twain>

Bryn-

Glad you find the list salubrious. We need to get some more recruits
though, or the conversations will get stale. We should lure Scott Malvitch
into here, at least, he seems to have a lot of enthusiasm for messing
about.

The Bohemia District is very interesting, I used to spend a lot oftime up
there when I was younger. The roads hadn't got any better last time I was
up there, so a messabout field trip should probably be optional for those
without a sturdy pickup.

Waldo is a great place for a messabout, but the mosquitoes are hungry and
plentiful right now up there! That'd be a good choice for August to
October.

When should we have a messabout on Dorena?

--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
http://www.boat-links.com/
Nobody ought to wear a Greek fisherman's hat unless they meet two conditions:
1. He is a Greek
2. He is a Fisherman <Roy Blount Jr.>