Date   

Re: Fern Ridge VIP Visit (was: Pelicans)

Dan
 

Flags? You mean like that ever-popular, "ZULU, JULIET, INTERROGATIVE,
NINE"? One of my favorites...since gone out of the International Book of
Signals, to our general loss. deep sigh. dan.


Re: Good Girl Gets a Motor (was: Correcting my EARLIER Instrument Notes on EV Power)

 

That's a good setup. You'd have to spend a lot more money to get a trolling motor with electronic speed control, and 30 lb. thrust should move Good Girl just fine. The runtime graphic is necessarily just a rough guide, but it does take into account Mr. Peukert. That motor should draw about 30 amps at full "throttle". It'd be nice to do some tests with an ammeter to see what it draws under typical conditions pushing Good Girl at the different speed settings. I did such a test with a 30 lb. Minn Kota on Pickle years ago but, alas, the results got lost in a computer upgrade since then. One of these days I'm gonna rig up a portable ammeter for doing trials like that, so maybe I can go out in Good Girl sometime for some test runs.

Get a digital voltmeter (cheap from harbor Freight will do) and keep an eye on the battery voltage now and then as you go along. I charged Tuffy's flooded cell batteries if they got down to 12 volts under light load -- my usual pace getting back to the dock after a sail -- which I figured was close enough to 50% discharge. The only really accurate way to to tell the state of charge by voltage is to let the battery rest for several hours before testing. Not very practical for us! <g> Here's some basic info about the Peukert effect and what I think is a practical voltage/state of charge chart, because it agrees with what I've been doing. <g>:

https://groups.io/g/oregoncoots/files/Motors/BatteryBasix.png

Don't sweat it if you have to go a little below 12 volts to get back to the dock, but recharge the battery right away, and promise to try to treat the battery better in the future. <g>

"Smart" battery chargers are getting cheaper and more common. I wouldn't be surprised to discover that they're the most common kind above the cheapest ones nowadays.

On 4/8/2021 10:32 AM, Josh wrote:
It's a Minn Kota 30lb thrust and the battery is a Duracell deep cycle 80a/h. I saw what I think you were describing with the Peukert effect when I was looking at runtime and how drastically it reduced as the draw increased. Reminds me of the energy to go from displacement to planning.
Think the charger I have is a smart charger but will be checking.
--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. (Catherine the Great)
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Re: Fern Ridge Water Level

 

Those of us who use Navionics can get an idea of how much smaller the usable lake is when the water is low. Go to the Menu, then Map Options, and adjust the water level to -5 ft. Today the level is actually about -4.5 ft. I've attached a couple of screenshots of the whole lake. I set the light blue shading at 6 ft. and the "shallow area" with the dots at 3 ft., which seems useful for our small boats. Be aware that the bathymetric data in Navionics is only an approximation.

I look forward to seeing you on the 15th or 16th, Dan! :o)

On 4/8/2021 8:19 AM, Dan in Almostcanada wrote:
Tally hooooo...I expect to get underway at about 17-1800 on Wednesday,
after my normal day of chaos, and hopefully reach the muddy shores of the
Land of the Fern Ridgeons by the following evening (Thursday.) HOPING FOR
NOTHING BETTER THAN EARL'S LOVELY SMILE, Bob's erudite elucidations,
Dennis's laconic grin, John's well-referenced comments, Elaine's delighted
countenance (would that be forebearance)?, ...some water to float in will
be a nice addition!!! Dan.
--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
The problem with some people is that when they aren’t drunk, they’re sober. (William Butler Yeats)
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Re: Good Girl Gets a Motor (was: Correcting my EARLIER Instrument Notes on EV Power)

Josh
 

It's a Minn Kota 30lb thrust and the battery is a Duracell deep cycle 80a/h. I saw what I think you were describing with the Peukert effect when I was looking at runtime and how drastically it reduced as the draw increased. Reminds me of the energy to go from displacement to planning. 
Think the charger I have is a smart charger but will be checking.


On Wed, Apr 7, 2021, 3:50 PM John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:
What kind of motor and battery did you get, Josh? Figure that you can
only use half the rated capacity of the battery without damaging it.

One confusing bit is the Peukert effect, which means your battery charge
goes further when you draw juice from it more slowly, and vice versa.
Just grabbing imaginary numbers out of the air... If the battery goes
down to 50% in an hour when you draw 20 amps from it, when you draw only
10 amps from it you don't double the time to get down to 50%, you
actually get _more than_ two hours run time. So it pays to go slower.
Even if you got the "best bang for the buck" cheap Minn Kota 30 lb. with
resistors to control the motor  speed (Ohm's law).

Get a good "smart charger" if you want to get the best life out of your
battery.

See you on the lake.

On 4/7/2021 10:22 AM, Josh wrote:
> Just got Good Girl a small trolling motor and battery so I've been going
> through trying to learn about all this, it's easy to get confused.
> _._,_._,_

--
John <jkohnen@...>
Better to trust the man who is frequently in error than the one who is
never in doubt. (Eric Sevareid)


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Re: Fern Ridge VIP Visit (was: Pelicans)

elaineginader
 

So glad that you're coming and I'llbeable to see your boat. Can we talk some more about the flags while we're there?

Elaine

On Thu, Apr 1, 2021, 12:35 PM Mark Neuhaus <moonlitturtle1934@...> wrote:
I'm leaning towards the zoomie-thing, as it would be a more spacious accommodation. But at this point, I'm figuring to be there with one of them.

On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 8:02 AM Dan <danashore@...> wrote:
It would be good to see you, Mark, no matter which floatything you bring.
dan.
 


Re: Fern Ridge Water Level

elaineginader
 

Yippee, I'm picking up Larimar (Enterprise) this weekend.  I need to do some canvas work and all around checking. I plan on leaving Friday morning. See everyone there.


On Thu, Apr 8, 2021, 8:19 AM Dan <danashore@...> wrote:
Tally hooooo...I expect to get underway at about 17-1800 on Wednesday,
after my normal day of chaos, and hopefully reach the muddy shores of the
Land of the Fern Ridgeons by the following evening (Thursday.)  HOPING FOR
NOTHING BETTER THAN EARL'S LOVELY SMILE, Bob's erudite elucidations,
Dennis's laconic grin, John's well-referenced comments, Elaine's delighted
countenance (would that be forebearance)?, ...some water to float in will
be a nice addition!!!  Dan.






Re: Fern Ridge Water Level

Dan
 

Tally hooooo...I expect to get underway at about 17-1800 on Wednesday,
after my normal day of chaos, and hopefully reach the muddy shores of the
Land of the Fern Ridgeons by the following evening (Thursday.) HOPING FOR
NOTHING BETTER THAN EARL'S LOVELY SMILE, Bob's erudite elucidations,
Dennis's laconic grin, John's well-referenced comments, Elaine's delighted
countenance (would that be forebearance)?, ...some water to float in will
be a nice addition!!! Dan.


Good Girl Gets a Motor (was: Correcting my EARLIER Instrument Notes on EV Power)

 

What kind of motor and battery did you get, Josh? Figure that you can only use half the rated capacity of the battery without damaging it.

One confusing bit is the Peukert effect, which means your battery charge goes further when you draw juice from it more slowly, and vice versa. Just grabbing imaginary numbers out of the air... If the battery goes down to 50% in an hour when you draw 20 amps from it, when you draw only 10 amps from it you don't double the time to get down to 50%, you actually get _more than_ two hours run time. So it pays to go slower. Even if you got the "best bang for the buck" cheap Minn Kota 30 lb. with resistors to control the motor speed (Ohm's law).

Get a good "smart charger" if you want to get the best life out of your battery.

See you on the lake.

On 4/7/2021 10:22 AM, Josh wrote:
Just got Good Girl a small trolling motor and battery so I've been going through trying to learn about all this, it's easy to get confused.
_._,_._,_
--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
Better to trust the man who is frequently in error than the one who is never in doubt. (Eric Sevareid)
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Re: Fern Ridge Water Level

 

Is the snow gone in Almostcanada yet? <g>

There's enough water to have fun on Fern Ridge for a while. If you come on the 16-19th you can launch Walkabout and there are places to anchor out, but we won't be able to go through the Jungle. We can meet friends and get Elaine's Enterprise sailing.

On 4/6/2021 5:00 PM, Dan in Almostcanada wrote:
Soooooo, whatcha'think??? Dan.
--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
Give a man a reputation as an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon. (Mark Twain)
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Re: Fern Ridge Water Level

 

Changing the schedule (The Curve) for filling and draining a Corps of Engineers reservoir is a major undertaking. It'd probably take years of studies, hearings, and maybe even an act of Congress! <sigh> Sometimes They (probably the civilians who do all the work) have fudged the Curve a bit in January and given us a little head start on filling the lake, but they probably got in trouble with the brass...

The best thing we can do is pray for rain. <sigh>

On 4/6/2021 9:44 AM, Jove wrote:
That is frustrating,
Seems like they will need to change their procedure to start capturing water a few weeks earlier.
--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
A little learning is not a dangerous thing to one who does not mistake it for a great deal. (William Allen White)
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Re: Correcting my EARLIER Instrument Notes on EV Power

Josh
 

Just got Good Girl a small trolling motor and battery so I've been going through trying to learn about all this, it's easy to get confused. 
Josh 


[ptpocketyachters] Port Townsend Pocket Yacht Palooza Is On!

Bob Miller
 



---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Galen <galenpiehl@...>
Date: Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 1:16 PM
Subject: [ptpocketyachters] Port Townsend Pocket Yacht Palooza Is On!
To: <ptpocketyachters@groups.io>


Well folks, we think the Pocket Yacht Palooza boat show is going to be able to run, on July 17th. Come enjoy the free boat show at the Northwest Maritime Center Commons, with more boats on the beach or anchored close by. For full details, and to register and show your boat, please visit this link.


Sender notified by
Mailtrack 04/06/21, 05:57:21 PM


Re: Fern Ridge Water Level

elaineginader
 

That's what I've been thinking. 


On Tue, Apr 6, 2021, 5:01 PM Dan <danashore@...> wrote:
Soooooo, whatcha'think???  Dan.






Re: Fern Ridge Water Level

Dan
 

Soooooo, whatcha'think??? Dan.


Amphigious Boating

 

Tired of cartopping, trailers, crowded launch ramps, and your poor yrailer backing ability? This is just the ticket!

https://duckworks.com/autocanoe-printed-plans/

Somebody needs to put a steam engine in one. <g>

--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
You can only protect your liberties in this world by protecting the other man's freedom. (Clarence Darrow)


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Re: Fern Ridge Water Level

Jove Lachman-Curl
 

That is frustrating,
Seems like they will need to change their procedure to start capturing water a few weeks earlier.
-Jove

On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 9:21 PM cherrill boissonou <cboissonou@...> wrote:
(Appropriate profanity applies here!) Earl🧙‍♂️🌝⚓️
> On Apr 5, 2021, at 5:35 PM, John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:
>
> The spreadsheet showing the depths at the Orchard Point and Richardson ramps and docks is working again:
>
> https://preview.tinyurl.com/FRDepths
>
> Over 4 1/2 feet to go to get to full. 25% behind where we should be now, and the outflow is greater than the inflow! <sigh> Pray for rain!
>
> https://www.nwd-wc.usace.army.mil/nwp/teacup/willamette/frn.pdf
>
> --
> John <jkohnen@...>
> I cannot help thinking that the people with motor boats miss a great deal. If they would only keep to rowboats or canoes, and use oar or paddle... they would get infinitely more benefit than by having their work done for them by gasoline. (Theodore Roosevelt)
>
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
>
>
>
>
>
>






Re: Fern Ridge Water Level

cherrill boissonou
 

(Appropriate profanity applies here!) Earl🧙‍♂️🌝⚓️

On Apr 5, 2021, at 5:35 PM, John Kohnen <jkohnen@boat-links.com> wrote:

The spreadsheet showing the depths at the Orchard Point and Richardson ramps and docks is working again:

https://preview.tinyurl.com/FRDepths

Over 4 1/2 feet to go to get to full. 25% behind where we should be now, and the outflow is greater than the inflow! <sigh> Pray for rain!

https://www.nwd-wc.usace.army.mil/nwp/teacup/willamette/frn.pdf

--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
I cannot help thinking that the people with motor boats miss a great deal. If they would only keep to rowboats or canoes, and use oar or paddle... they would get infinitely more benefit than by having their work done for them by gasoline. (Theodore Roosevelt)


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Fern Ridge Water Level

 

The spreadsheet showing the depths at the Orchard Point and Richardson ramps and docks is working again:

https://preview.tinyurl.com/FRDepths

Over 4 1/2 feet to go to get to full. 25% behind where we should be now, and the outflow is greater than the inflow! <sigh> Pray for rain!

https://www.nwd-wc.usace.army.mil/nwp/teacup/willamette/frn.pdf

--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
I cannot help thinking that the people with motor boats miss a great deal. If they would only keep to rowboats or canoes, and use oar or paddle... they would get infinitely more benefit than by having their work done for them by gasoline. (Theodore Roosevelt)


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Re: Yaquina Queen

Jamie Orr
 

John, I feel the same way about the little Farymann I bought from Marty Loken (it used to be in Heather).  A single cylinder, it does bark a bit, but smooths out at higher rpms and the hatch cover helps - it sounds like music to me.  I haven't had to use earmuffs yet, but on a long cruise I think I might pack them along just in case I feel like a change.

Jamie

On Monday, April 5, 2021, 02:47:43 p.m. PDT, John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:


Here's some of what Paul Gartside wrote in one of his early how-to-build
articles, a 5.5 meter motor launch, in Water Craft magazine. he uses
flexible engine mounts, but not a fancy isolation system. Wasn't it a
Perkins 4-108 Jetman Dan had in his whaleboat? You certainly never
forgot it was there when it was running. ;o)

"I remember meeting a fellow on the coast of British Columbia whose
boast was that he had worn out a Perkins 4-108 purely by summer
cruising. As we sat in his cozy wheelhouse poring over his charts, it
seemed a believable claim, for it was clear he had driven his little
boat well over 1000 miles every summer for many years. When I asked him
what he had replaced it with, he said: 'The same thing. I just love that
engine.' I could tell he meant it. Then, as I was leaving, I noticed the
pair of ear protectors hung over a spoke of the wheel. 'Oh, yeah, I use
those all the time,' he said. 'No sense in suffering.' And there you
have it: love, pain and the diesel engine - yet another of life's
complicated relationships.

"...

"That brings us to the engine and the problem of noise suppression. An
interesting question is why diesels in boats seem so much noisier than
those in cars and trucks. What became of the friendly purr of the London
taxi? There are a couple of things going on here. First is that an
engine in a boat is under a constant heavy load: it's the taxi on a
perpetual hill climb. Second, in a boat we have the engine rigidly
attached to the shaft train, the boat being driven along by the thrust
of the propeller on the back of the gearbox. If we were smart we would
de-couple them, take the thrust on the structure somewhere inboard of
the stuffing box and allow the engine to float while supplying its
rotary power to the shaft. That would allow us to use much softer mounts
under the engine feet and cut down the transmission of vibration and
noise. The GKN Aquadrive would do that and I briefly considered their
smallest unit as part of the solution here but it is expensive and seems
overkill for such a small boat. I'm pretty sure we can get the noise
down to acceptable levels without it by building a proper sound shield,
as shown.

"There are two requirements for containing the noise generated by the
engine. We must seal it as completely as possible from the passenger
spaces; sound will escape and propagate from the smallest of openings,
so the seal has to be complete. And the structure of the shield has to
be rigid enough that it can't reverberate and create its own sound waves
and vibrations. The usual drop-over plywood box is totally inadequate in
both respects.

"In an all-glued boat the best approach is to build the box down to the
hull, thereby creating a full seal. In a planked boat like this the box
needs a base that runs under the engine. In either case, we have to pay
careful attention to any penetrations we make in it.

"The box shown is of sandwich construction with a thick foam core to
ensure stiffness and sound deadening. The core is polystyrene paneling,
laminated up to the required thickness with epoxy. It should be laid out
on the loft floor to ensure the shaft alignment is right and it should
be checked for fit in the boat before finishing. It will be important to
get a good fit on the lid; it rests on a double seal, just like an
ice-box lid, and should be fitted with a pair of heavy cam catches to
lock it down tight. Use construction-grade fir plywood, cove the inside
corners well, and give the whole thing a light sheathing of glass cloth
inside and out for a clean, wipe-down finish.

"Now, all that remains is to keep Herr Diesel going in there by bringing
in the life-support systems. First and most difficult to arrange is the
air supply. I'm not going to quote you the quantity of air consumed in
the burning of a litre of diesel oil; it's a startling number and will
only serve to remind us of our folly. Suffice it to say it is a lot and
on top of that we need a flow of air to carry away excess heat. In the
plan I have three large vents, one forces cold air in low down in the
front of the box and two more, higher up aft, will carry hot air away.
These need to go through traps both to keep water out and to prevent
noise escape. The traps should be lined with sound-absorbent material.

"The cooling-water hose, fuel feed and return lines, the starter cables,
control cables and the exhaust hose will come in through GRP tubes
bonded into the box and caulked with glass wool. With some planning they
can be grouped. The shaft is a tricky one, because the flexible engine
mounts give it a range of movement. A second flexible stuffing box would
be one answer but I've had good results with a pair of heavy, split
rubber rings, as shown."




On 4/4/2021 8:08 PM, Toledo Joe wrote:
> Thanks John,
>
> I hadn’t considered the noise issue up to this point. We were all just
> so excited to have the boat in the water with the engine running we
> hadn’t gotten too far into the engine cover design. That will be e
> coming this week - and we will look at ways to keep the sound levels down.

--
John <jkohnen@...>
The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be
taken seriously. (Hubert Humphrey)


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Re: Yaquina Queen

 

Here's some of what Paul Gartside wrote in one of his early how-to-build articles, a 5.5 meter motor launch, in Water Craft magazine. he uses flexible engine mounts, but not a fancy isolation system. Wasn't it a Perkins 4-108 Jetman Dan had in his whaleboat? You certainly never forgot it was there when it was running. ;o)

"I remember meeting a fellow on the coast of British Columbia whose boast was that he had worn out a Perkins 4-108 purely by summer cruising. As we sat in his cozy wheelhouse poring over his charts, it seemed a believable claim, for it was clear he had driven his little boat well over 1000 miles every summer for many years. When I asked him what he had replaced it with, he said: 'The same thing. I just love that engine.' I could tell he meant it. Then, as I was leaving, I noticed the pair of ear protectors hung over a spoke of the wheel. 'Oh, yeah, I use those all the time,' he said. 'No sense in suffering.' And there you have it: love, pain and the diesel engine - yet another of life's complicated relationships.

"...

"That brings us to the engine and the problem of noise suppression. An interesting question is why diesels in boats seem so much noisier than those in cars and trucks. What became of the friendly purr of the London taxi? There are a couple of things going on here. First is that an engine in a boat is under a constant heavy load: it's the taxi on a perpetual hill climb. Second, in a boat we have the engine rigidly attached to the shaft train, the boat being driven along by the thrust of the propeller on the back of the gearbox. If we were smart we would de-couple them, take the thrust on the structure somewhere inboard of the stuffing box and allow the engine to float while supplying its rotary power to the shaft. That would allow us to use much softer mounts under the engine feet and cut down the transmission of vibration and noise. The GKN Aquadrive would do that and I briefly considered their smallest unit as part of the solution here but it is expensive and seems overkill for such a small boat. I'm pretty sure we can get the noise down to acceptable levels without it by building a proper sound shield, as shown.

"There are two requirements for containing the noise generated by the engine. We must seal it as completely as possible from the passenger spaces; sound will escape and propagate from the smallest of openings, so the seal has to be complete. And the structure of the shield has to be rigid enough that it can't reverberate and create its own sound waves and vibrations. The usual drop-over plywood box is totally inadequate in both respects.

"In an all-glued boat the best approach is to build the box down to the hull, thereby creating a full seal. In a planked boat like this the box needs a base that runs under the engine. In either case, we have to pay careful attention to any penetrations we make in it.

"The box shown is of sandwich construction with a thick foam core to ensure stiffness and sound deadening. The core is polystyrene paneling, laminated up to the required thickness with epoxy. It should be laid out on the loft floor to ensure the shaft alignment is right and it should be checked for fit in the boat before finishing. It will be important to get a good fit on the lid; it rests on a double seal, just like an ice-box lid, and should be fitted with a pair of heavy cam catches to lock it down tight. Use construction-grade fir plywood, cove the inside corners well, and give the whole thing a light sheathing of glass cloth inside and out for a clean, wipe-down finish.

"Now, all that remains is to keep Herr Diesel going in there by bringing in the life-support systems. First and most difficult to arrange is the air supply. I'm not going to quote you the quantity of air consumed in the burning of a litre of diesel oil; it's a startling number and will only serve to remind us of our folly. Suffice it to say it is a lot and on top of that we need a flow of air to carry away excess heat. In the plan I have three large vents, one forces cold air in low down in the front of the box and two more, higher up aft, will carry hot air away. These need to go through traps both to keep water out and to prevent noise escape. The traps should be lined with sound-absorbent material.

"The cooling-water hose, fuel feed and return lines, the starter cables, control cables and the exhaust hose will come in through GRP tubes bonded into the box and caulked with glass wool. With some planning they can be grouped. The shaft is a tricky one, because the flexible engine mounts give it a range of movement. A second flexible stuffing box would be one answer but I've had good results with a pair of heavy, split rubber rings, as shown."

On 4/4/2021 8:08 PM, Toledo Joe wrote:
Thanks John,
I hadn’t considered the noise issue up to this point. We were all just so excited to have the boat in the water with the engine running we hadn’t gotten too far into the engine cover design. That will be e coming this week - and we will look at ways to keep the sound levels down.
--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously. (Hubert Humphrey)
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