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Re: Finishing cedar.

Jamie Orr
 

David, I've heard that the gloss coat isn't as easy to renew as the plain Cetol, that it's harder and needs sanding.  What's your experience with that?


On Wed., 24 Mar. 2021 at 11:42 a.m., David Graybeal via groups.io
<harbordavid@...> wrote:
The only problem with skipping the 'gloss' step - which people certainly do - is that the color coat alone doesn't hold up very well to abrasion. It rubs off. Even a single coat of gloss helps that a lot.


Re: Finishing cedar.

David Graybeal
 

The only problem with skipping the 'gloss' step - which people certainly do - is that the color coat alone doesn't hold up very well to abrasion. It rubs off. Even a single coat of gloss helps that a lot.


Re: Finishing cedar.

Case Turner
 

My charter boat had super nice mahogany benches that Rick Johnson made for it. I had to refinish them all the time. The down side was they were varnished and that doesn’t hold up well in an industry where you haul lots of people.

So I spent a winter sanding and removing the varnish. Did multiple coats of Cetol ( not the orange) then several coats of the semi-gloss top coat. I never had to do anything to them again. 5 years later they looked like the day I finished them.

Case

Sent from not here

On Mar 23, 2021, at 11:48 PM, John Kohnen <jkohnen@boat-links.com> wrote:

Pickle's Cetol is the "original" color. It's got iron oxide in it for UV protection, which makes it kinda orange. Some people don't like that...

On 3/23/2021 3:15 PM, Jim Cwrote:
I really like the Cetol finish on Johns Pickle.
...
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John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
A man's errors are his portals of discovery. (James Joyce)


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Re: Finishing cedar.

 

Pickle's Cetol is the "original" color. It's got iron oxide in it for UV protection, which makes it kinda orange. Some people don't like that...

On 3/23/2021 3:15 PM, Jim Cwrote:
I really like the Cetol finish on Johns Pickle. ...
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Re: Finishing cedar.

 

Cetol is designed to soak into the wood. They call it a "synthetic oil finish"finish", or something like that. You apply coat after coat of the plain Cetol, until the wood won't take any more, then finish off with a coat or two of the gloss stuff, or just the plain Cetol, if you don't want a gloss finish. Putting a primer or epoxy under Cetol kinda defeats the porpoise.

I haven't heard of any gluing or finish problems with western red cedar. It's used a lot in strip-planked boats, that depend on good adhesion from epoxy. Most of the houses in my neighborhood have red cedar siding, and it seems to have held paint well for the last 70 years.

Looks like another fun project, Jim. Will it float? <g>

Speaking of floating trailers... Somebody around here needs to build one of these!

https://youtu.be/TnhLb8zC8Tc

https://youtu.be/AQq4FZDFhxw

https://duckworks.com/carawhale-plans/

Jim? <g>

On 3/23/2021 3:15 PM, Jim C wrote:
I really like the Cetol finish on Johns Pickle. If I use epoxy on the bare wood, then a bunch of coats of Cetol.  Will it stick to the cedar & behave itself? I use West systems epoxy. As near as I can tell S1 is a primer for paint & not varnish. Jamie. when you used it did you epoxy the cedar first?
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John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
A paranoid is a man who knows a little of what's going on. (William Burroughs)
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Re: Finishing cedar.

Jhcalbany@aol.com
 

That sounds like it would do my job. Thanks David


Re: Finishing cedar.

David Graybeal
 

Yes. That's what it's designed for. A coat of the first goop (the color - I'm partial to 'Natural Teak' flavor). Then the clear 'gloss'. Grabs good on bare wood. Looks pretty decent, and lasts well. Also easy to touch up seamlessly.


Re: Finishing cedar.

Jhcalbany@aol.com
 

Do you use the varnish, in my case Cetol on the bare wood? Home Depot has some kind of primer for varnish. I've never used it.


Re: Finishing cedar.

David Graybeal
 

Personally, I tend NOT to use epoxy under clear finishes. Because of the UV issues, and because my working assumption is always that the UV-protecting topcoat WILL at some point be neglected or otherwise compromised. And cleaning off UV-burned epoxy is too much work for my taste. I really hate going backward like that. So I choose to skip the possibility. Too little to gain, and too much hassle to (maybe) lose. YMMV.


Re: Finishing cedar.

Jhcalbany@aol.com
 

I really like the Cetol finish on Johns Pickle. If I use epoxy on the bare wood, then a bunch of coats of Cetol.  Will it stick to the cedar & behave itself? I use West systems epoxy. As near as I can tell S1 is a primer for paint & not varnish. Jamie. when you used it did you epoxy the cedar first?   


Re: Well, Well !! News Updated for This Year

 

Congratulations to La Verne for getting out of the rat race while she can. :o) When's her last day?

I'm glad you're finally satisfied with Surprise, too. I hope you can bring her to Triangle Lake Saturday.

Mentioning renting boats reminded me that Scott will rent you a Cape Dory Typhoon on Fern Ridge, if you get an urge to go for a sail.

https://www.eugenemarine.com/boat-rentals

http://www.capedory.org/specs/typhoon.htm

On 3/23/2021 8:53 AM, Electri-Cal wrote:
I guess the first "hot dog !!" news is that La Verne has turned in her resignation, before the days get too short this fall to drive safely in the am.
...
Surprise will do nicely, don't need anything to have a good lake day, exhibit at coots events, and just enjoy the water with friends. ...
 Rented O'Days and Columbias in Florida keys, I even got offered a job managing the fleet for the new beachfront marina, and playing with the club manatee.   In Kona HI., has a superb rental time, and even better the crew positions open on ocean racing cats, and log canoes, thanks to Myles Swifts ideas.  Renting pangas in Mexico is great fun with a good fishing guide -- ah -- "Best you bail Seniore', I will find the fish for us"  --  ah !!     That He did, did that in spades !!
Not less boating, just more time and bucks to "borrow" one,  ------- Later,   Cal
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A society that gets rid of all its troublemakers goes downhill. (Robert A. Heinlein)
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Well, Well !! News Updated for This Year

Electri-Cal
 

I guess the first "hot dog !!" news is that La Verne has turned in her resignation, before the days get too short this fall to drive safely in the am.  Good idea, more time to cruise, and enjoy boating elsewhere.  I started my boating bug at age 14 on the Nile, across from the old Semiramis hotel in Cairo.  Parents nixed that as a hobby, but decades later started building dinghys in Morro bay, sold a few around 84' or so.   Before the epoxy craze!

Surprise will do nicely, don't need anything to have a good lake day, exhibit at coots events, and just enjoy the water with friends.  Surprise will do all that at almost no cost, trailer with my Toyota Corolla most anyplace, and I can only sit just so long out there.  My sound system, a good book, and sunny day will cover most projects.  Might be nice to rig a sail, and I have all the pieces, but as an extra project not a necessity.  Looking towards not spending bucks on parts, and building more boats, just a good warm day for a water trip.    Replacing batteries, that's enough to have a great trip.   Still leaves all that varnish on the brand new back deck clean too.

Now it's time to let others build, I am content with Surprise as a probable last full boat build.  Still have a lot of boat stuff, so maybe something to use that up, but nothing like I have done.  Lots of tools I haven't used in years, but what I don't need could be sold or passed on to more nimble younger coot hands.  Plenty of other boats to rent, or crew on wherever we plan to go, not my own but adequate for a trip.   Rented O'Days and Columbias in Florida keys, I even got offered a job managing the fleet for the new beachfront marina, and playing with the club manatee.   In Kona HI., has a superb rental time, and even better the crew positions open on ocean racing cats, and log canoes, thanks to Myles Swifts ideas.  Renting pangas in Mexico is great fun with a good fishing guide -- ah -- "Best you bail Seniore', I will find the fish for us"  --  ah !!     That He did, did that in spades !!

Not less boating, just more time and bucks to "borrow" one,  -------  Later,   Cal 





Season Opener Messabout, Saturday, march 27th

 

Don't forget the Season Opener messabout next Saturday at Triangle Lake, in the Coast range west of Junction City. Bring lunch:

http://www.coots.org/mb/Opener/

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John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
The means of defence against foreign danger have been always the instruments of tyranny at home. (James Madison)


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Re: Finishing cedar.

cherrill boissonou
 

Hi Jim,
My Adirondack guideboat is glass/epoxy with Captain’s Z-Spar varnish (5 coats) and is now 11yrs old. I keep it covered but it was out in the sun plenty when I was rowing it. I mention the Z- Spar because it gives good UV protection. 🧙‍♂️🌝⚓️.
Earl


On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:30 PM, Jamie Orr via groups.io <jas_orr@...> wrote:

I have cedar coamings on my boat.  When refinishing, I used the recommended primer under the paint, then paint.  It peeled off in less than a year.  I took it down to bare wood again, and sealed it with System Three's S-1 and painted again.  It's still good as new two years on.  A professional boatbuilder told me that cedar doesn't hold paint well but the S-1 is an excellent primer for it - I don't see why varnish would be different.  BTW, he also told me that S-1 should be allowed to sit for an hour after mixing and before using.  That helps get the reaction started so it cures properly and in a reasonable time.  I've since heard from another source about letting it sit for a while (time unspecified so I'll stick with an hour).

Jamie

On Sunday, March 21, 2021, 05:21:45 p.m. PDT, Jhcalbany@... via groups.io <jhcalbany@...> wrote:


I'm building a squaredrop trailer kinda like this picture. I want to trim it in cedar & I've never worked with it before. Do I epoxy it then varnish or varithane it or can I leave out the epoxy? Cedar has oils that are not compatible with a lot of stuff. Expert? 

<120498269_3888131731214669_8804583971798710512_n.jpg>
<120498269_3888131731214669_8804583971798710512_n.jpg>


Re: Finishing cedar.

David Graybeal
 

Don't know specifically about CPES, but regular epoxy will degrade when exposed to UV (sunlight). It takes weeks or months.... but it WILL happen. To the extent that it's buried in a joint, or in the grain, or kept in the dark... it won't.  Because CPES soaks in, I'd expect it to be less susceptible to UV degradation than a film of epoxy resin. But still affected SOME  I'd be skeptical of the long-term life of naked CPES.


Re: Finishing cedar.

johnacord
 

On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 05:30 PM, Jamie Orr wrote:

I built a new roof for Claire's greenhouse out of cedar this year.  I sealed it with Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer with no additional overcoat.  It is holding up fine, still looks bright.  CEPS is an excellent sealer and base for most woods.  When applying it you will get the best results if you reapply wet until the wood saturates.  That guarantees that the sealer has penetrated well into the wood fibers.

S-1 is probably a good product, but I have been using Smith's CEPS since about 1970 with excellent results and it is ready to use as soon as mixed as long as you use good epoxy mixing technique.  My feeling is that the CEPS would be less effective at penetrating if partially cured. Certainly once the wood is saturated and cured additional coating would not penetrate as the wood fibers were already bonded by the epoxy.

CEPS is a good base for varnish as well as paints.

John A


Re: Finishing cedar.

Case Turner
 

Looks like a fun project can’t wait to see it! 

Case

Sent from not here

On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:46 PM, David Graybeal via groups.io <harbordavid@...> wrote:



If you're going to paint, epoxy makes an excellent first coat, and filler.

 

If you're after a bright finish - I've had good luck with both an oil/varnish hybrid like Daly's  Seafin Teak Oil, and with Sikkens Cetol Marine (I prefer the 'light teak' flavor).


Re: Finishing cedar.

David Graybeal
 

If you're going to paint, epoxy makes an excellent first coat, and filler.

 

If you're after a bright finish - I've had good luck with both an oil/varnish hybrid like Daly's  Seafin Teak Oil, and with Sikkens Cetol Marine (I prefer the 'light teak' flavor).


Re: Finishing cedar.

Jamie Orr
 

I have cedar coamings on my boat.  When refinishing, I used the recommended primer under the paint, then paint.  It peeled off in less than a year.  I took it down to bare wood again, and sealed it with System Three's S-1 and painted again.  It's still good as new two years on.  A professional boatbuilder told me that cedar doesn't hold paint well but the S-1 is an excellent primer for it - I don't see why varnish would be different.  BTW, he also told me that S-1 should be allowed to sit for an hour after mixing and before using.  That helps get the reaction started so it cures properly and in a reasonable time.  I've since heard from another source about letting it sit for a while (time unspecified so I'll stick with an hour).

Jamie

On Sunday, March 21, 2021, 05:21:45 p.m. PDT, Jhcalbany@... via groups.io <jhcalbany@...> wrote:


I'm building a squaredrop trailer kinda like this picture. I want to trim it in cedar & I've never worked with it before. Do I epoxy it then varnish or varithane it or can I leave out the epoxy? Cedar has oils that are not compatible with a lot of stuff. Expert? 


Finishing cedar.

Jhcalbany@aol.com
 

I'm building a squaredrop trailer kinda like this picture. I want to trim it in cedar & I've never worked with it before. Do I epoxy it then varnish or varithane it or can I leave out the epoxy? Cedar has oils that are not compatible with a lot of stuff. Expert? 

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