Date   

Re: New requirements coming for ECOS use on boats less than 26’

 

The wireless kill switches are sure a good idea but, alas, they _are_ expensive. <sigh> A couple hunnert bucks for this one:

https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/Virtual-Kill-Switch

Most of us Coots won't get nabbed by the CG, because we won't be running our boats above displacement speed. Andrew won't have to worry when he's planing around the lake in his Daysailer because he'll be under sail. <g>

On 3/19/2021 9:07 AM, Rich G wrote:
I hope we can work out extensions to the cut off lanyard so we’re not glued to the transom.
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Re: Looks like solar cells are better !!

 

No free lunch, indeed! I meant that a 100 Watt panel is unlikely to produce 10 amps at 24 volts, more than twice the power in the product description.

This year I'm gonna try a solar panel, or panels, to keep Tuffy's batteries topped up. I'm starting with a 30 watt panel, but may have to double up -- or more -- to do the job. Normally I only use the motor for the first and last bits of a sail, and that at low speed. We'll see...

New batteries this year, too. I killed the old ones by leaving the charger hooked up when it was unplugged. One lead wasn't clipped to a battery, but was clipped onto a terminal elsewhere and I didn't notice. An expensive boner. <sigh> I'll probably go with AGMs.

On 3/19/2021 9:51 AM, Myles T wrote:
Re: Solar Panels
Yes, a panel could be rated for 10amps and 24v.
But if those are Isc and Voc, that doesn't give you max power.
Isc is short circuit current (which produces no power).
Voc is open circuit voltage (also produces no power).
A panel with rated power output (Pm), eg. Of 100watts, might have those two values for Isc and Voc, but the 100watts might occur only for the rated amount of sunshine 1000w/sqm (typical equator noon) and with Ip ~ 6amps at Vp ~ 16.7v.
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Re: New requirements coming for ECOS use on boats less than 26’

 

That won't have much effect on most Coots. It only applies while operating above displacement speed. Curious wording in the announcement though -- there are lots of yahoos who operate their boats above displacement speed in no-wake zones. <sigh>

The article states that wireless devices are now available that'll kill the motor if you fall in. If they're not expensive that might increase compliance with the law. It's certainly a Good Idea to have a way to kill the motor when the operator goes overboard.

"[The] Elijah E. Cummings Coast Guard Authorization Act of 2020 requires individuals operating covered recreational vessels (less than 26 feet in length, with an engine capable of 115 lbs. or more of static thrust, which equates to about 3 horsepower or more) to use ECOS “links” while operating on plane or above displacement speed. Using the ECOSL is not required when the main helm is installed within an enclosed cabin. Common situations where ECOSL use would not be required include docking/trailering, trolling, and operating in no-wake zones."

On 3/19/2021 4:10 AM, Case wrote:
The coast guard is going to require operators of boat 26ft or less with motors over 3hp to actually use the ECOS (engine cut off switch) lanyard or system.
Some states already require this but not all.
https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/USDHSCG/bulletins/2c7a930
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Every year back spring comes, with nasty little birds, yapping their fool heads off and the ground all mucked up with plants. (Dorothy Parker)
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Re: Looks like solar cells are better !!

Myles Twete
 

Re: Solar Panels
Yes, a panel could be rated for 10amps and 24v.
But if those are Isc and Voc, that doesn't give you max power.
Isc is short circuit current (which produces no power).
Voc is open circuit voltage (also produces no power).
A panel with rated power output (Pm), eg. Of 100watts, might have those two values for Isc and Voc, but the 100watts might occur only for the rated amount of sunshine 1000w/sqm (typical equator noon) and with Ip ~ 6amps at Vp ~ 16.7v.

No free lunch.

-----Original Message-----
From: oregoncoots@groups.io [mailto:oregoncoots@groups.io] On Behalf Of John Kohnen
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2021 2:34 PM
To: oregoncoots@groups.io
Subject: Re: [oregoncoots] Looks like solar cells are better !!

10 amps @ 24 volts = 240 watts. Doesn't add up...

https://smile.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B08X452VFM/themotherofal-20

Joe Grez did the Salish 100 under solar power with an array about so big:

https://flic.kr/p/2gB9w6t

IIRC, he said he could do two knots, when the sun cooperated, with the input from the soar array equaling the output to the motor. An EP Carry:

https://www.electricpaddle.com/

If we have a Salish 100 this year, he'll be doing it again in something a little bigger (based on a C-Lark hull), with room for more solar panels. See attachments.

On 3/16/2021 6:44 AM, Electri-Cal wrote:
With the newer solar panels on Amazon, I see 10 amp at 24 volt in a
size that fits Surprises aft deck. In fact 2 panels ( 21 by 41 in. )
will fit easy and still open as designed for access. My cruise speed
uses about 10 amp on the battery, so two panels ought to do, even on
slightly cloudy days. With my two 24 volt batt. packs, that could
equate to running as long as I could stand to sit and cruise. The
panel cost is now down to $ 70. 00 each -- which is just about what a
battery costs at bi Mart. With my heavier duty fork lift # 27 size,
that's about enough to fill in the gap even better, for safety's sake on the water.
...
--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
Science has never drummed up quite as effective a tranquilizing agent as a sunny spring day. (W. Earl Hall)



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Re: New requirements coming for ECOS use on boats less than 26’

Richard Green
 

I hope we can work out extensions to the cut off lanyard so we’re not glued to the transom.

Rich

On Mar 19, 2021, at 4:10 AM, Case Turner <casesturner@...> wrote:

The coast guard is going to require operators of boat 26ft or less with motors over 3hp to actually use the ECOS (engine cut off switch) lanyard or system. 

Some states already require this but not all. 

https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/USDHSCG/bulletins/2c7a930

Case

Sent from not here

--
Dirt


New requirements coming for ECOS use on boats less than 26’

Case Turner
 

The coast guard is going to require operators of boat 26ft or less with motors over 3hp to actually use the ECOS (engine cut off switch) lanyard or system. 

Some states already require this but not all. 

https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/USDHSCG/bulletins/2c7a930

Case

Sent from not here

--
Dirt


Re: Pray for Rain!

 

https://www.nwd-wc.usace.army.mil/nwp/teacup/willamette/frn.pdf

The solid red line in the diagrams is the "Water Control Diagram", what everybody calls "The Curve". It's the rate of filling (and draining) the lake the Corps of Engineers aspires to. The Curve hasn't been updated since about 1963, when They raised the dam a foot or so. The solid dark blue line is the actual water level, which, if the civilians at the Corps had good crystal balls, would follow the Curve closely, except when they're holding water back to keep from washing away Monroe. If They should hold back water to prevent a flood, They're supposed to let it out again as soon as They can to get back to the Curve.

The green and blue lines at the bottom of some of the graphs show the flow of water into the lake (green) and the flow of water being released (blue). The fuller the lake is, the more inflow it takes to raise it a foot. Dotted lines on the 7 Day chart show what They're crystal balls tell Them to expect for the next few days.

The broken horizontal lines in the 30 days chart show the elevations of the launch ramps on the lake.

You can check the lake levels at all the Willamette Project reservoirs here:

https://www.nwd-wc.usace.army.mil/nwp/teacup/willamette/

Hover over a little orange dam to get a text showing current elevation and flows, click on a dam to get charts. The numbers in the "teacups" show the percentage of full for each reservoir, and the percentage above or below that lake's Curve. Fern Ridge is 10% below where it should be right now.

I hope that explains things well enough. Fern Ridge sailors watch the charts closely every spring, and gripe a lot about the CoE employees. <g> I think they're professionals who try to do a good job, but They have to follow outdated guidelines, probably with occasional interference from the uniformed Brass, and the Army issue crystal balls really aren't very good. But I'll bet they're expensive. <g>

Look at the chart for Fern Ridge. We didn't make sacrifices to the rain gods and dance naked on the docks last year, and look what happened! :o( I hope out efforts this year were enough to get the lake full this year.

On 3/18/2021 12:30 PM, Rich G wrote:
I confess I saw the graphs and such and had no idea what I was seeing.
--
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The first day of spring was once the time for taking the young virgins into the fields, there in dalliance to set an example in fertility for nature to follow. Now we just set the clocks an hour ahead and change the oil in the crankcase. (E. B. White)
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Re: Pray for Rain!

Richard Green
 

I confess I saw the graphs and such and had no idea what I was seeing.

Rich

On Mar 17, 2021, at 5:36 PM, John Kohnen <jkohnen@boat-links.com> wrote:

https://www.nwd-wc.usace.army.mil/nwp/teacup/willamette/frn.pdf

https://preview.tinyurl.com/EUGWX

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Life can be perfectly satisfying without major achievements. (Alice Munro)


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Pray for Rain!

 

https://www.nwd-wc.usace.army.mil/nwp/teacup/willamette/frn.pdf

https://preview.tinyurl.com/EUGWX

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Life can be perfectly satisfying without major achievements. (Alice Munro)


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Re: Neat New Electric Outboard

 

Thanks, David. This is the outfit he mentions that makes rim drive units closest to the size Coots would use:

https://www.torque-jet.de/

I'll bet they'd make more sales if they had an English version of their Web site. <sigh>

On 3/17/2021 3:35 PM, David G wrote:
Another video on the topic. Looks interesting --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Te_xejpriFM
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Re: Neat New Electric Outboard

 

What the Hy-Generation "thrust module". I suppose you could call it, does is combine the propeller with a nozzle. Nozzles do indeed have quite a bit of drag, but they increase thrust. So they're best at low speeds. Fortunately, electric boats go slow. <g>

Earl added a crude sort of half-nozzle to Dr. Petra's gas outboard and liked the result. Increased low-speed thrust and better maneuverability. I can't recall the maker. Earl?

I expect the exposed inner tips of the Hy-Generation blades will have a lot less loss than the tips of ordinary prop blades, but I don't know the details...

On 3/17/2021 3:17 PM, Jove wrote:
On an aircraft propeller the center of effort is at the 70% radius of the blade. Lift reduces to zero at the hub since there isn't any foil to fluid velocity. From this, I'd assume that there are very little or no tip losses in this design, and it makes a lot of sense to remove the central nacelle of a typical ducted fan design if possible to reduce drag, On the other hand the external nacelle provides a lot of drag surface vs a traditional boat prop. Perhaps fragile if you hit something in the blade tip area.
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Re: Neat New Electric Outboard

David Graybeal
 

Another video on the topic. Looks interesting --

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Te_xejpriFM


Re: Neat New Electric Outboard

Jove Lachman-Curl
 

On an aircraft propeller the center of effort is at the 70% radius of the blade. Lift reduces to zero at the hub since there isn't any foil to fluid velocity. From this, I'd assume that there are very little or no tip losses in this design, and it makes a lot of sense to remove the central nacelle of a typical ducted fan design if possible to reduce drag, On the other hand the external nacelle provides a lot of drag surface vs a traditional boat prop. Perhaps fragile if you hit something in the blade tip area.
-Jove

On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:03 PM John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:
Saw an article in a recent Watercraft mag about "rim motors". The
electric ones oughta have lotsa torque, since all the power is made out
at the rim, and the integral propeller/nozzle eliminates wasted power at
the propeller tips. Dunno what happens when the open end of a propeller
blade is on the _inside_...

http://www.hy-generation.com/

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There is no greater fan of fly fishing than the worm. (Patrick F. McManus)


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Neat New Electric Outboard

 

Saw an article in a recent Watercraft mag about "rim motors". The electric ones oughta have lotsa torque, since all the power is made out at the rim, and the integral propeller/nozzle eliminates wasted power at the propeller tips. Dunno what happens when the open end of a propeller blade is on the _inside_...

http://www.hy-generation.com/

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There is no greater fan of fly fishing than the worm. (Patrick F. McManus)


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Re: Looks like solar cells are better !!

 

10 amps @ 24 volts = 240 watts. Doesn't add up...

https://smile.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B08X452VFM/themotherofal-20

Joe Grez did the Salish 100 under solar power with an array about so big:

https://flic.kr/p/2gB9w6t

IIRC, he said he could do two knots, when the sun cooperated, with the input from the soar array equaling the output to the motor. An EP Carry:

https://www.electricpaddle.com/

If we have a Salish 100 this year, he'll be doing it again in something a little bigger (based on a C-Lark hull), with room for more solar panels. See attachments.

On 3/16/2021 6:44 AM, Electri-Cal wrote:
With the newer solar panels on Amazon, I see 10 amp at 24 volt in a size that fits Surprises aft deck.  In fact 2 panels ( 21 by 41 in. ) will fit easy and still open as designed for access.  My cruise speed uses about 10 amp on the battery, so two panels ought to do, even on slightly cloudy days.  With my two 24 volt batt. packs, that could equate to running as long as I could stand to sit and cruise.  The panel cost is now down to $ 70. 00  each -- which is just about what a battery costs at bi Mart.  With my heavier duty fork lift # 27 size, that's about enough to fill in the gap even better, for safety's sake on the water.
...
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John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
Science has never drummed up quite as effective a tranquilizing agent as a sunny spring day. (W. Earl Hall)
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Re: Looks like solar cells are better !!

Arthur Goussy
 

Sorry sold


On Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 10:11 AM Myles Twete <matwete@...> wrote:

Hi Cal-

I didn’t see a link, but looking at Amazon, I think you’re looking at something like this?

Amazon.com: Sutakhi 100W Mono Flexible Solar Panel 20A/10A Solar Controller Module for Car Rv Boat Home Roof Vans Camping 12V 24V Solar Battery Solar Cells: Home & Kitchen

 

Right up front: These are NOT 24v panels---their output is likely optimal only to charge 12v of lead acid per panel.  More on that below.

 

The way that ad is written, it’s hard to know for sure that you  actually get a solar panel at all---could be just a solar controller.

Having said that, their photos reveal it includes BOTH.  And in the minimal specs they show for the panels themselves, except for the dimensions, they only indicate 24v and ~20% efficiency plus construction images validating it as a monocrystalline high efficiency solar panel.

 

But without V-I characteristics, you really have no idea how this would work as you intend.  Let’s say you get 2 panels (and 2 charge controllers with them).  First, that charge controller (if used) is a PWM controller and not MPPT.  This means that it will not be useful at all to boost the voltage and will not optimize its operating point and give you the best efficiency all the time.  Still, a charge controller is nice (and free with this deal).  But let’s ignore it.

 

I’m guessing your figuring is to use 1 panel to charge 24v of lead acid.  Is that correct?

Let’s say you connect the panel simply thru a fuse for charging.

Do you just expect 100watts (or 4amps) charging whenever the sun is shining?  It’s not that simple.  For one thing, that 100watts is the rated output, and likely for high noon at the equator.  Mount your panel horizontal and even at the equator, the output will vary thru the day, maybe getting 5.5hours avg at 100watts.  Now, move to 45deg latitude (Salem, Oregon) and mounted horizontally, these are now 70watt panels, max.  And depending on the time of year and the weather, you might get 1 hour of son or 4hours of sun, so from Spring to Fall, you might figure 3-hours, but not 100watts---just 70, or 210w-h per-panel per-day.

 

Now, we haven’t at all talked about the solar panel’s V-I curve, AND the ad mentions nowhere what that curve looks like.  We have no clue what the Voc, Isc are, let alone what the Vmpp, Impp are.  Those are key!  Now, let’s take a WAG and assume these cells are 0.45vpc (at mpp) and you have 32 of them in series---we might then expect a panel MPP of 14.4v.

 

But why guess?  Looking for similar looking panels, here’s one that looks like it uses the same panels:

Amazon.com : YUANFENGPOWER 100W 12V Flexible Solar Panel Monocrystalline PERC Solar Cells for 12v/24v Battery Camper RV Boat Caravan Cabin Tent Car (100w) : Garden & Outdoor

 

And there we see this:

Pmp: 100w

Vmp: 18v

Imp: 5.55a

Voc: 21.6v

Isc: 6.11a

And of course, the specs are for 25degC, and 1 full equator sun

 

Even at the equator, if you took one of these panels and hooked it up to 24v of PbA batteries, you will get ZERO charge current unless the batteries are nearly dead (21.6v).  And only then will you get any charge current at all.  And MPP is at 18v (@5.55a) and only pointed directly at the son (tilted near 45deg here in the NW, at noon, mid-summer)

 

So their add is misleading: One of these panels is sized to charge a single 12v battery bank.  And that PWM controller won’t do DCDC conversion to get the panel to operate at MPP, so you may as well use it as a boat anchor.  Still, it’s a decent deal if the quality is there.  But what should we then expect?

 

For mid-summer, with horizontal mounting, at high noon and direct connected to one 12v battery that is nom. 12v, we would expect roughly 6amps * 70% (latitude adjust) = 4.2amps.

Total power from panel ~ 50watts.

And you would need 4 of these.  Cost: $280 for 200watts of PEAK power, high noon, mid-summer.

So, you lose 30% due to horizontal mounting at 45deg latitude and another 20% due to an operating voltage of 12v instead of at Vmp.

 

Now, what could you do to improve things?

·       Invest in a single nom. 48v MPPT controller

·       Explore mounting options to get better sun

 

A MPPT controller is effectively a DCDC that is programmed to maximize charge current to the battery (respecting battery limits) by adjusting the V-I operating point of the solar panel outputs.  With a MPPT controller, you could get close to recovering all of that 20% loss.

Mounting options---now this gets fun for boats, especially on sunny late Fall thru early Spring days with calm, highly reflective water.  I visualize having 4 panels like these that I could attach (small bungies to the eyelets) on one side of my boat, electrically connected in series, then plugged into a socket on the side of the boat (that goes to a MPPT) controller.  If I’m heading upstream (East) for hours, mount them on the starboard side vertically.

Else, mount them on the other side.

 

Advantage: Low sun, panels pointed directly at it AND getting nearly a 2nd sun’s energy off the water.  I imagine that in this configuration on a nice late Fall, early Spring day one could effectively get close to rated power out of the panel.  But maybe not.

 

Anyway, whew…

 

-MT

 

 

From: oregoncoots@groups.io [mailto:oregoncoots@groups.io] On Behalf Of Electri-Cal
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 6:45 AM
To: oregoncoots@groups.io
Subject: [oregoncoots] Looks like solar cells are better !!

 

With the newer solar panels on Amazon, I see 10 amp at 24 volt in a size that fits Surprises aft deck.  In fact 2 panels ( 21 by 41 in. ) will fit easy and still open as designed for access.  My cruise speed uses about 10 amp on the battery, so two panels ought to do, even on slightly cloudy days.  With my two 24 volt batt. packs, that could equate to running as long as I could stand to sit and cruise.  The panel cost is now down to $ 70. 00  each -- which is just about what a battery costs at bi Mart.  With my heavier duty fork lift # 27 size, that's about enough to fill in the gap even better, for safety's sake on the water. 

I was looking to add batts. and still could, but now I think the floor space, and weight savings with better panel cost will make this a better deal to try first, when added to my current run time on a good boating day.  This could well save having to go to way more expensive (but lighter) battery types, after all there is a limitation on how long the boating day is, and most don't choose to run at night much,  Answers the most asked question about the boat as well.   

Just a thought on the newer square cell and flexible panels , they look good,  see Ya !!  ----  Cal


Re: Looks like solar cells are better !!

Myles Twete
 

Hi Cal-

I didn’t see a link, but looking at Amazon, I think you’re looking at something like this?

Amazon.com: Sutakhi 100W Mono Flexible Solar Panel 20A/10A Solar Controller Module for Car Rv Boat Home Roof Vans Camping 12V 24V Solar Battery Solar Cells: Home & Kitchen

 

Right up front: These are NOT 24v panels---their output is likely optimal only to charge 12v of lead acid per panel.  More on that below.

 

The way that ad is written, it’s hard to know for sure that you  actually get a solar panel at all---could be just a solar controller.

Having said that, their photos reveal it includes BOTH.  And in the minimal specs they show for the panels themselves, except for the dimensions, they only indicate 24v and ~20% efficiency plus construction images validating it as a monocrystalline high efficiency solar panel.

 

But without V-I characteristics, you really have no idea how this would work as you intend.  Let’s say you get 2 panels (and 2 charge controllers with them).  First, that charge controller (if used) is a PWM controller and not MPPT.  This means that it will not be useful at all to boost the voltage and will not optimize its operating point and give you the best efficiency all the time.  Still, a charge controller is nice (and free with this deal).  But let’s ignore it.

 

I’m guessing your figuring is to use 1 panel to charge 24v of lead acid.  Is that correct?

Let’s say you connect the panel simply thru a fuse for charging.

Do you just expect 100watts (or 4amps) charging whenever the sun is shining?  It’s not that simple.  For one thing, that 100watts is the rated output, and likely for high noon at the equator.  Mount your panel horizontal and even at the equator, the output will vary thru the day, maybe getting 5.5hours avg at 100watts.  Now, move to 45deg latitude (Salem, Oregon) and mounted horizontally, these are now 70watt panels, max.  And depending on the time of year and the weather, you might get 1 hour of son or 4hours of sun, so from Spring to Fall, you might figure 3-hours, but not 100watts---just 70, or 210w-h per-panel per-day.

 

Now, we haven’t at all talked about the solar panel’s V-I curve, AND the ad mentions nowhere what that curve looks like.  We have no clue what the Voc, Isc are, let alone what the Vmpp, Impp are.  Those are key!  Now, let’s take a WAG and assume these cells are 0.45vpc (at mpp) and you have 32 of them in series---we might then expect a panel MPP of 14.4v.

 

But why guess?  Looking for similar looking panels, here’s one that looks like it uses the same panels:

Amazon.com : YUANFENGPOWER 100W 12V Flexible Solar Panel Monocrystalline PERC Solar Cells for 12v/24v Battery Camper RV Boat Caravan Cabin Tent Car (100w) : Garden & Outdoor

 

And there we see this:

Pmp: 100w

Vmp: 18v

Imp: 5.55a

Voc: 21.6v

Isc: 6.11a

And of course, the specs are for 25degC, and 1 full equator sun

 

Even at the equator, if you took one of these panels and hooked it up to 24v of PbA batteries, you will get ZERO charge current unless the batteries are nearly dead (21.6v).  And only then will you get any charge current at all.  And MPP is at 18v (@5.55a) and only pointed directly at the son (tilted near 45deg here in the NW, at noon, mid-summer)

 

So their add is misleading: One of these panels is sized to charge a single 12v battery bank.  And that PWM controller won’t do DCDC conversion to get the panel to operate at MPP, so you may as well use it as a boat anchor.  Still, it’s a decent deal if the quality is there.  But what should we then expect?

 

For mid-summer, with horizontal mounting, at high noon and direct connected to one 12v battery that is nom. 12v, we would expect roughly 6amps * 70% (latitude adjust) = 4.2amps.

Total power from panel ~ 50watts.

And you would need 4 of these.  Cost: $280 for 200watts of PEAK power, high noon, mid-summer.

So, you lose 30% due to horizontal mounting at 45deg latitude and another 20% due to an operating voltage of 12v instead of at Vmp.

 

Now, what could you do to improve things?

·       Invest in a single nom. 48v MPPT controller

·       Explore mounting options to get better sun

 

A MPPT controller is effectively a DCDC that is programmed to maximize charge current to the battery (respecting battery limits) by adjusting the V-I operating point of the solar panel outputs.  With a MPPT controller, you could get close to recovering all of that 20% loss.

Mounting options---now this gets fun for boats, especially on sunny late Fall thru early Spring days with calm, highly reflective water.  I visualize having 4 panels like these that I could attach (small bungies to the eyelets) on one side of my boat, electrically connected in series, then plugged into a socket on the side of the boat (that goes to a MPPT) controller.  If I’m heading upstream (East) for hours, mount them on the starboard side vertically.

Else, mount them on the other side.

 

Advantage: Low sun, panels pointed directly at it AND getting nearly a 2nd sun’s energy off the water.  I imagine that in this configuration on a nice late Fall, early Spring day one could effectively get close to rated power out of the panel.  But maybe not.

 

Anyway, whew…

 

-MT

 

 

From: oregoncoots@groups.io [mailto:oregoncoots@groups.io] On Behalf Of Electri-Cal
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 6:45 AM
To: oregoncoots@groups.io
Subject: [oregoncoots] Looks like solar cells are better !!

 

With the newer solar panels on Amazon, I see 10 amp at 24 volt in a size that fits Surprises aft deck.  In fact 2 panels ( 21 by 41 in. ) will fit easy and still open as designed for access.  My cruise speed uses about 10 amp on the battery, so two panels ought to do, even on slightly cloudy days.  With my two 24 volt batt. packs, that could equate to running as long as I could stand to sit and cruise.  The panel cost is now down to $ 70. 00  each -- which is just about what a battery costs at bi Mart.  With my heavier duty fork lift # 27 size, that's about enough to fill in the gap even better, for safety's sake on the water. 

I was looking to add batts. and still could, but now I think the floor space, and weight savings with better panel cost will make this a better deal to try first, when added to my current run time on a good boating day.  This could well save having to go to way more expensive (but lighter) battery types, after all there is a limitation on how long the boating day is, and most don't choose to run at night much,  Answers the most asked question about the boat as well.   

Just a thought on the newer square cell and flexible panels , they look good,  see Ya !!  ----  Cal


Re: Ken's AF4 Breve

Ken Preston
 

If that dusty disorganized disaster area looks CLEAN then we now know that photos lie.  The shop vac hooked up to the random orbital sander does help, but what an awkward arrangement that is! <grin>


Looks like solar cells are better !!

Electri-Cal
 

With the newer solar panels on Amazon, I see 10 amp at 24 volt in a size that fits Surprises aft deck.  In fact 2 panels ( 21 by 41 in. ) will fit easy and still open as designed for access.  My cruise speed uses about 10 amp on the battery, so two panels ought to do, even on slightly cloudy days.  With my two 24 volt batt. packs, that could equate to running as long as I could stand to sit and cruise.  The panel cost is now down to $ 70. 00  each -- which is just about what a battery costs at bi Mart.  With my heavier duty fork lift # 27 size, that's about enough to fill in the gap even better, for safety's sake on the water. 

I was looking to add batts. and still could, but now I think the floor space, and weight savings with better panel cost will make this a better deal to try first, when added to my current run time on a good boating day.  This could well save having to go to way more expensive (but lighter) battery types, after all there is a limitation on how long the boating day is, and most don't choose to run at night much,  Answers the most asked question about the boat as well.   

Just a thought on the newer square cell and flexible panels , they look good,  see Ya !!  ----  Cal


Re: Ken's AF4 Breve

 

I envy how _clean_ his shop is! How does he do that? <g>

On 3/15/2021 3:55 PM, Rich G wrote:
Looks great! I envy the inside shop build and that’s a fact.
--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
What wisdom can you find that is greater than kindness? (Jean Jacques Rousseau)
--
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