1. oregoncoots@groups.io
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Re: This Saturday: Sauvie's Island Circumnavigation Planning Meeting

elaineginader
 

I'm thinking it's tall enough for them to open the bridge. All the info I have the mast length isn't there. I reached out to Michael just so I know. I thought we were going around Sauvie Island.  Are we going other places too?


On Sat, Sep 5, 2020, 8:00 PM John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:
"Zoom up there"? How do you like zooming around, Mark? Are the Coots
gonna turn into a speedboat club? ;o)

How tall is Belle's mast, Elaine? We were wondering if we could get Them
to open the Steel Bridge for us, but we need a tall boat. <g>

On 9/5/2020 11:16 AM, Mark N wrote:
> ...
> The bridge would have been a problem for taller boats than
> ours.  Perhaps I can zoom up there in the next week or so if anyone
> would like a current (no pun intended) assessment.

--
John <jkohnen@...>
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government
when it deserves it. (Mark Twain)


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Re: This Saturday: Sauvie's Island Circumnavigation Planning Meeting

John Kohnen
 

"Zoom up there"? How do you like zooming around, Mark? Are the Coots gonna turn into a speedboat club? ;o)

How tall is Belle's mast, Elaine? We were wondering if we could get Them to open the Steel Bridge for us, but we need a tall boat. <g>

On 9/5/2020 11:16 AM, Mark N wrote:
...
The bridge would have been a problem for taller boats than ours.  Perhaps I can zoom up there in the next week or so if anyone would like a current (no pun intended) assessment.
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Re: This Saturday: Sauvie's Island Circumnavigation Planning Meeting

John Kohnen
 

I have to make a few phone calls Tuesday before I make a public report on the planning session. What kind of boat do you have, Lee?

On 9/5/2020 10:48 AM, Lee T wrote:
 I cant be at the planning meeting today, but am keen to hear about the results and hope to go on the cruise.
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Re: This Saturday: Sauvie's Island Circumnavigation Planning Meeting

John Kohnen
 

If it's convenient we may go past those no trespassing signs and (politely) thumb our noses at them. <g>

On 9/5/2020 8:40 AM, Myles T wrote:
And just to discourage the riff-raff, there are signs at the river mouth loudly proclaiming the place to be members' only. I ignore the signs knowing that the waters are navigable and navigable waterways in Oregon are open to the public. Docks on the other hand, sure.
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Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. (Voltaire)
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Re: This Saturday: Sauvie's Island Circumnavigation Planning Meeting

John Kohnen
 

Thanks for doing the legwork, Rich. Too bad about the PYC not wanting to share, but they get a few points for being polite.

I hope your Covid tests keep turning up negative.

On 9/4/2020 4:43 PM, Rich G wrote:
Received a kindly note from the PYC manager re: the Willow Bar.  Summed up in two words: no dice.  They have a strict policy of ’not sharing’ (my words) but was a very pleasant rejection and he wished luck and enjoyment to the group.
Never know ’til you ask.
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John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
A belief which leaves no place for doubt is not a belief; it is a superstition. (Jose Bergamin)
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Re: This Saturday: Sauvie's Island Circumnavigation Planning Meeting

Richard Green
 

I think the water rushes out from such places to “fill in” the void caused by the huge bow wake sucking up so much river water.  When the ship has passed it all levels out again.  

Rich

On Sep 5, 2020, at 2:21 PM, Mark Neuhaus <moonlitturtle1934@...> wrote:

And this is exactly what happened as we were stern tied to the bank in the slough for lunch. I thought it was the strangest thing. 

On Saturday, September 5, 2020, Richard Green <chaos5@...> wrote:
One thing I remember about being docked in Willow Bar in the old days was that when a ship came up the river still with a bone in her teeth before the ship hove into view through the entrance all the water in the pooka would be in motion rushing out into the river.  Then when the ship passed well beyond, the water would come back in and of course all the time the docks were in motion bouncing around.
Re: This Saturday: Sauvie's Island Circumnavigation Planning Meeting

Mark Neuhaus
 

And this is exactly what happened as we were stern tied to the bank in the slough for lunch. I thought it was the strangest thing. 


On Saturday, September 5, 2020, Richard Green <chaos5@...> wrote:
One thing I remember about being docked in Willow Bar in the old days was that when a ship came up the river still with a bone in her teeth before the ship hove into view through the entrance all the water in the pooka would be in motion rushing out into the river.  Then when the ship passed well beyond, the water would come back in and of course all the time the docks were in motion bouncing around.
Re: This Saturday: Sauvie's Island Circumnavigation Planning Meeting

Richard Green
 

One thing I remember about being docked in Willow Bar in the old days was that when a ship came up the river still with a bone in her teeth before the ship hove into view through the entrance all the water in the pooka would be in motion rushing out into the river.  Then when the ship passed well beyond, the water would come back in and of course all the time the docks were in motion bouncing around.

Rich

On Sep 5, 2020, at 8:59 AM, Myles Twete <matwete@...> wrote:

Further:
 
 
“Even if the bed of a waterway is privately owned, the waterway may be used by the public for certain purposes if it meets the state test of navigable-for-public-use (the “public use doctrine.”) A waterway is navigable-for-public-use if it has the capacity, in terms of length, width and depth, to enable boats to make successful progress through its waters. If a privately owned waterway meets this test, the lawful public uses generally include navigation, commerce or recreation. Recreation in this case includes use of small boats for pleasure and fishing, as well as swimming. The public may use the land adjacent to a waterway that is navigable-for-public use as long as the use of the adjacent land is “necessary” to the lawful use of the waterway.”
 
So ignore all No Trespassing signs going into that bay.
They should be ordered to remove those signs…otoh, I haven’t motored into that bay in at least a couple years now, so it’s possible they’ve been removed, but I doubt it.  Asserting that one is trespassing for entering a space that is legal to enter and requires no membership is more than just rude, it should be illegal.
 
From: oregoncoots@groups.io [mailto:oregoncoots@groups.io] On Behalf Of Myles Twete
Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2020 8:44 AM
To: oregoncoots@groups.io
Subject: Re: [oregoncoots] This Saturday: Sauvie's Island Circumnavigation Planning Meeting
 
I suggest the circumnav coots gunkhole in that very beautiful cove one night just to piss off any PYC members thinking they own the navigable waterway of that bay.  Assholes.
 
From: oregoncoots@groups.io [mailto:oregoncoots@groups.io] On Behalf Of Richard Green
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2020 4:44 PM
To: oregoncoots@groups.io
Subject: Re: [oregoncoots] This Saturday: Sauvie's Island Circumnavigation Planning Meeting
 
Received a kindly note from the PYC manager re: the Willow Bar.  Summed up in two words: no dice.  They have a strict policy of ’not sharing’ (my words) but was a very pleasant rejection and he wished luck and enjoyment to the group.
 
Never know ’til you ask.
 
Rich

 

On Sep 4, 2020, at 3:01 PM, Richard Green <chaos5@...> wrote:
 
I have, it appears, sent an email to the manager of the PYC to inquire.  I’ll keep you posted should I hear back.
 
Rich

 

On Sep 4, 2020, at 2:49 PM, Richard Green <chaos5@...> wrote:
 

Ah, there it is.  I don’t know if the International Association of the Grand Coots and Yacht Club could get reciprocal privileges in there for a night or not.   

Rich

On Sep 4, 2020, at 2:29 PM, John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:

I answered my own question: "Just 12 miles downstream from the clubhouse and moorage and inside a bay on the east side of beautiful Sauvie Island, +45° 44' 59", -122° 46' 17", lies the club’s member-only Willow Bar Outstation."

I hate it when boating facilities open to the public get turned into "gated communities". <sigh>

-- 
John <jkohnen@...>
The latter part of a wise man's life is taken up in curing the follies, prejudices, and false opinions he had contracted in the former. (Jonathan Swift)


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Re: This Saturday: Sauvie's Island Circumnavigation Planning Meeting

Mark Neuhaus
 

Elaine,

On Saturday, September 5, 2020, elaineginader <elaineginader@...> wrote:

Hey Mark please remember Belle Starr needs at least 6' clearance I'd hate to get stuck.

Yep, my comment about the bridge was with you in mind.  Of course, if we moored partway up the slough, it would be easy to backtrack to the river and avoid the bridge. It may be that low water is just as much a problem. That slough may not be a good place to go.

I'll be curious to see what the planning committee decides for stops on the river stretch.  I believe Sand Island at St. Helens is easily reachable from Caterlillar Island in a day, I'm just not sure of any good spots to stop between them, if need be.  Myles, any suggestions?

Mark
Re: This Saturday: Sauvie's Island Circumnavigation Planning Meeting

elaineginader
 

Hey Mark please remember Belle Starr needs at least 6' clearance I'd hate to get stuck.


On Sat, Sep 5, 2020, 11:16 AM Mark Neuhaus <moonlitturtle1934@...> wrote:
Myles,

I had to laugh at your 'tirade', as you were echoing everything I've thought about that cove.  I saw those signs way back in 2009 when Pat, Terry, and I passed by it on our way around Sauvie Island after the messabout.  And when I started my facilities update project, I looked at Google map imagery all along the river to Illwaco looking for points of interest. I was surprised to see Island Cove RV Park and Cove Marina listed there. I had hoped to stop in the other day by water, but we ended up going the channel route north instead. So, I figured when I drove to St.  Helens in the next week or so, I would swing by the place and ask about mooring there.  Richard saved me the trouble.

I like your idea of gunkholing in the cove, but the shoaling and possible low water may not agree. Hey, what if we anchor our fleet just inside the mouth, sort of a blockade? 😀

John, as we went north back in 2009, we pulled into Bachelor Slough for lunch and eventually continued around the island to Ridgefield.  The chart shows that slough as very shallow but we had no problem in our boats.  The bridge would have been a problem for taller boats than ours.  Perhaps I can zoom up there in the next week or so if anyone would like a current (no pun intended) assessment.

Mark
Re: This Saturday: Sauvie's Island Circumnavigation Planning Meeting

Mark Neuhaus
 

Myles,

I had to laugh at your 'tirade', as you were echoing everything I've thought about that cove.  I saw those signs way back in 2009 when Pat, Terry, and I passed by it on our way around Sauvie Island after the messabout.  And when I started my facilities update project, I looked at Google map imagery all along the river to Illwaco looking for points of interest. I was surprised to see Island Cove RV Park and Cove Marina listed there. I had hoped to stop in the other day by water, but we ended up going the channel route north instead. So, I figured when I drove to St.  Helens in the next week or so, I would swing by the place and ask about mooring there.  Richard saved me the trouble.

I like your idea of gunkholing in the cove, but the shoaling and possible low water may not agree. Hey, what if we anchor our fleet just inside the mouth, sort of a blockade? 😀

John, as we went north back in 2009, we pulled into Bachelor Slough for lunch and eventually continued around the island to Ridgefield.  The chart shows that slough as very shallow but we had no problem in our boats.  The bridge would have been a problem for taller boats than ours.  Perhaps I can zoom up there in the next week or so if anyone would like a current (no pun intended) assessment.

Mark
Re: This Saturday: Sauvie's Island Circumnavigation Planning Meeting

Lee Tapper
 

 I cant be at the planning meeting today, but am keen to hear about the results and hope to go on the cruise.

Lee
Re: This Saturday: Sauvie's Island Circumnavigation Planning Meeting

Myles Twete
 

Further:

 

State of Oregon Attorney General gave this in request for its interpretations on Navigable Waterways in 2005:

 

“Even if the bed of a waterway is privately owned, the waterway may be used by the public for certain purposes if it meets the state test of navigable-for-public-use (the “public use doctrine.”) A waterway is navigable-for-public-use if it has the capacity, in terms of length, width and depth, to enable boats to make successful progress through its waters. If a privately owned waterway meets this test, the lawful public uses generally include navigation, commerce or recreation. Recreation in this case includes use of small boats for pleasure and fishing, as well as swimming. The public may use the land adjacent to a waterway that is navigable-for-public use as long as the use of the adjacent land is “necessary” to the lawful use of the waterway.”

 

So ignore all No Trespassing signs going into that bay.

They should be ordered to remove those signs…otoh, I haven’t motored into that bay in at least a couple years now, so it’s possible they’ve been removed, but I doubt it.  Asserting that one is trespassing for entering a space that is legal to enter and requires no membership is more than just rude, it should be illegal.

 

From: oregoncoots@groups.io [mailto:oregoncoots@groups.io] On Behalf Of Myles Twete
Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2020 8:44 AM
To: oregoncoots@groups.io
Subject: Re: [oregoncoots] This Saturday: Sauvie's Island Circumnavigation Planning Meeting

 

I suggest the circumnav coots gunkhole in that very beautiful cove one night just to piss off any PYC members thinking they own the navigable waterway of that bay.  Assholes.

 

From: oregoncoots@groups.io [mailto:oregoncoots@groups.io] On Behalf Of Richard Green
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2020 4:44 PM
To: oregoncoots@groups.io
Subject: Re: [oregoncoots] This Saturday: Sauvie's Island Circumnavigation Planning Meeting

 

Received a kindly note from the PYC manager re: the Willow Bar.  Summed up in two words: no dice.  They have a strict policy of ’not sharing’ (my words) but was a very pleasant rejection and he wished luck and enjoyment to the group.

 

Never know ’til you ask.

 

Rich

 

On Sep 4, 2020, at 3:01 PM, Richard Green <chaos5@...> wrote:

 

I have, it appears, sent an email to the manager of the PYC to inquire.  I’ll keep you posted should I hear back.

 

Rich

 

On Sep 4, 2020, at 2:49 PM, Richard Green <chaos5@...> wrote:

 

Ah, there it is.  I don’t know if the International Association of the Grand Coots and Yacht Club could get reciprocal privileges in there for a night or not.   

Rich

On Sep 4, 2020, at 2:29 PM, John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:

I answered my own question: "Just 12 miles downstream from the clubhouse and moorage and inside a bay on the east side of beautiful Sauvie Island, +45° 44' 59", -122° 46' 17", lies the club’s member-only Willow Bar Outstation."

I hate it when boating facilities open to the public get turned into "gated communities". <sigh>

-- 
John <jkohnen@...>
The latter part of a wise man's life is taken up in curing the follies, prejudices, and false opinions he had contracted in the former. (Jonathan Swift)


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Re: This Saturday: Sauvie's Island Circumnavigation Planning Meeting

Myles Twete
 

I suggest the circumnav coots gunkhole in that very beautiful cove one night just to piss off any PYC members thinking they own the navigable waterway of that bay.  Assholes.

 

From: oregoncoots@groups.io [mailto:oregoncoots@groups.io] On Behalf Of Richard Green
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2020 4:44 PM
To: oregoncoots@groups.io
Subject: Re: [oregoncoots] This Saturday: Sauvie's Island Circumnavigation Planning Meeting

 

Received a kindly note from the PYC manager re: the Willow Bar.  Summed up in two words: no dice.  They have a strict policy of ’not sharing’ (my words) but was a very pleasant rejection and he wished luck and enjoyment to the group.

 

Never know ’til you ask.

 

Rich



On Sep 4, 2020, at 3:01 PM, Richard Green <chaos5@...> wrote:

 

I have, it appears, sent an email to the manager of the PYC to inquire.  I’ll keep you posted should I hear back.

 

Rich



On Sep 4, 2020, at 2:49 PM, Richard Green <chaos5@...> wrote:

 

Ah, there it is.  I don’t know if the International Association of the Grand Coots and Yacht Club could get reciprocal privileges in there for a night or not.   

Rich


On Sep 4, 2020, at 2:29 PM, John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:

I answered my own question: "Just 12 miles downstream from the clubhouse and moorage and inside a bay on the east side of beautiful Sauvie Island, +45° 44' 59", -122° 46' 17", lies the club’s member-only Willow Bar Outstation."

I hate it when boating facilities open to the public get turned into "gated communities". <sigh>

-- 
John <jkohnen@...>
The latter part of a wise man's life is taken up in curing the follies, prejudices, and false opinions he had contracted in the former. (Jonathan Swift)


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Re: This Saturday: Sauvie's Island Circumnavigation Planning Meeting

Myles Twete
 

And just to discourage the riff-raff, there are signs at the river mouth loudly proclaiming the place to be members' only. I ignore the signs knowing that the waters are navigable and navigable waterways in Oregon are open to the public. Docks on the other hand, sure.

-----Original Message-----
From: oregoncoots@groups.io [mailto:oregoncoots@groups.io] On Behalf Of John Kohnen
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2020 2:30 PM
To: oregoncoots@groups.io
Subject: Re: [oregoncoots] This Saturday: Sauvie's Island Circumnavigation Planning Meeting

I answered my own question: "Just 12 miles downstream from the clubhouse and moorage and inside a bay on the east side of beautiful Sauvie Island, +45° 44' 59", -122° 46' 17", lies the club’s member-only Willow Bar Outstation."

I hate it when boating facilities open to the public get turned into "gated communities". <sigh>

--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
The latter part of a wise man's life is taken up in curing the follies, prejudices, and false opinions he had contracted in the former.
(Jonathan Swift)


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Re: This Saturday: Sauvie's Island Circumnavigation Planning Meeting

Richard Green
 

Received a kindly note from the PYC manager re: the Willow Bar.  Summed up in two words: no dice.  They have a strict policy of ’not sharing’ (my words) but was a very pleasant rejection and he wished luck and enjoyment to the group.

Never know ’til you ask.

Rich

On Sep 4, 2020, at 3:01 PM, Richard Green <chaos5@...> wrote:

I have, it appears, sent an email to the manager of the PYC to inquire.  I’ll keep you posted should I hear back.

Rich

On Sep 4, 2020, at 2:49 PM, Richard Green <chaos5@...> wrote:

Ah, there it is.  I don’t know if the International Association of the Grand Coots and Yacht Club could get reciprocal privileges in there for a night or not.   

Rich

On Sep 4, 2020, at 2:29 PM, John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:

I answered my own question: "Just 12 miles downstream from the clubhouse and moorage and inside a bay on the east side of beautiful Sauvie Island, +45° 44' 59", -122° 46' 17", lies the club’s member-only Willow Bar Outstation."

I hate it when boating facilities open to the public get turned into "gated communities". <sigh>

-- 
John <jkohnen@...>
The latter part of a wise man's life is taken up in curing the follies, prejudices, and false opinions he had contracted in the former. (Jonathan Swift)


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Re: This Saturday: Sauvie's Island Circumnavigation Planning Meeting

Richard Green
 

I have, it appears, sent an email to the manager of the PYC to inquire.  I’ll keep you posted should I hear back.

Rich

On Sep 4, 2020, at 2:49 PM, Richard Green <chaos5@...> wrote:

Ah, there it is.  I don’t know if the International Association of the Grand Coots and Yacht Club could get reciprocal privileges in there for a night or not.   

Rich

On Sep 4, 2020, at 2:29 PM, John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:

I answered my own question: "Just 12 miles downstream from the clubhouse and moorage and inside a bay on the east side of beautiful Sauvie Island, +45° 44' 59", -122° 46' 17", lies the club’s member-only Willow Bar Outstation."

I hate it when boating facilities open to the public get turned into "gated communities". <sigh>

-- 
John <jkohnen@...>
The latter part of a wise man's life is taken up in curing the follies, prejudices, and false opinions he had contracted in the former. (Jonathan Swift)


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Re: This Saturday: Sauvie's Island Circumnavigation Planning Meeting

Richard Green
 

Ah, there it is. I don’t know if the International Association of the Grand Coots and Yacht Club could get reciprocal privileges in there for a night or not.

Rich

On Sep 4, 2020, at 2:29 PM, John Kohnen <jkohnen@boat-links.com> wrote:

I answered my own question: "Just 12 miles downstream from the clubhouse and moorage and inside a bay on the east side of beautiful Sauvie Island, +45° 44' 59", -122° 46' 17", lies the club’s member-only Willow Bar Outstation."

I hate it when boating facilities open to the public get turned into "gated communities". <sigh>

--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
The latter part of a wise man's life is taken up in curing the follies, prejudices, and false opinions he had contracted in the former. (Jonathan Swift)


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Re: This Saturday: Sauvie's Island Circumnavigation Planning Meeting

Richard Green
 

That looks like Willow Bar. The beauty of that place is it’s about mid island and going either way just worked really well. That whole area upstream on the river side was at one time an island…as I understand…and they (the corps) closed off the upstream opening and it has sanded and silted in to what you see on the chart. My understanding is PYC did some dredging in there back when they bought it but the chart looks about like I remember it. Just past the docks that were there was the houseboat of the caretakers and then very shoal.

I don’t know if the docks are open, it’s a destination for their members, I’d guess not but certainly worth a call to the Portland Yacht Club to ask. I lost track of what goes on there decades ago.

Rich

On Sep 4, 2020, at 2:29 PM, John Kohnen <jkohnen@boat-links.com> wrote:

I answered my own question: "Just 12 miles downstream from the clubhouse and moorage and inside a bay on the east side of beautiful Sauvie Island, +45° 44' 59", -122° 46' 17", lies the club’s member-only Willow Bar Outstation."

I hate it when boating facilities open to the public get turned into "gated communities". <sigh>

--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
The latter part of a wise man's life is taken up in curing the follies, prejudices, and false opinions he had contracted in the former. (Jonathan Swift)


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Re: This Saturday: Sauvie's Island Circumnavigation Planning Meeting

John Kohnen
 

I answered my own question: "Just 12 miles downstream from the clubhouse and moorage and inside a bay on the east side of beautiful Sauvie Island, +45° 44' 59", -122° 46' 17", lies the club’s member-only Willow Bar Outstation."

I hate it when boating facilities open to the public get turned into "gated communities". <sigh>

--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
The latter part of a wise man's life is taken up in curing the follies, prejudices, and false opinions he had contracted in the former. (Jonathan Swift)


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