Date   

Re: Last Call for Saturday Coot Lunch and Voyage Planning Session

 

We certainly will let everybody know about what we discuss tomorrow, and we'll welcome input.

On 9/3/2020 8:38 PM, elaine wrote:
I'd really like to come but this weekend is full. Please let me know in what is discussed as I'm definitely going on the cruise.
--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
The sea drives truth into a man like salt. (Hilaire Belloc)
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Re: Thanks Coots, getting started on "stuff"

Electri-Cal
 

What I always liked doing, in lighter morning or evening airs was simple and effective. With Windsong, my Atomic 4 at 25 hp., ticking at around 600 to 900 rpm helped take water resistance away, plus prop drag and made ghosting along in the am run to Catalina isl. a lot more fun.  Same with my lapstrake sailer, the MinnK barely churning in the morning helped get offshore and get back as the wind moderated --  without noise and fuss with sail gear. 

Just as info. -- I still have a couple Lido 14 size sails in the bag.  I could easy set up a "mini mast" and do some sailing too.  The rudder is deep and larger for the twin motors, kicks up also.  The addition would be a side mounted leaboard  with weights and a reinforced pivot block, again not a big deal.  I would bet that my Chesapeake flat bottom  hull shape would do well, better without  part of the battery lead !!  I keep thinking about a wishbbone rig.  Anchoring to the gunnels at 4 ft. wide, and tall as the sail allows that to lie aft, sail comes down in the cockpit if dropped by releasing the fore stay rope, loose footed, (furling??) wire luff, sounds like I need to reread a few books.  Another way to possibly not dismiss wind or ev  power, but that doesn't require rowing the last mile.  Power at 3 mph -- sail at 3 mph, -- row at 3 mph  was the way my lighter lapstrake handled everything, from one seat.  Couldn't take 2 people in good seats though, like Surprise does.

Heading out,   Cal


Re: Table Saw Blues --- Burnt out motor !!

Richard Green
 

Re electric weed whackers. I have a Stihl corded weedwhacker I’m letting go of as I have hired a landscape guy, the lower back doesn’t like yard work of any sort. I had a battery operated small mower, 19” deck”, which did my lawn on half a battery and my ex is happy with it now. Anyway, if anyone is interested in it, the price is right. Very low hours as my needs were small to begin with.

Rich

On Sep 3, 2020, at 7:56 PM, John Kohnen <jkohnen@boat-links.com> wrote:

You've got the experience to back up your recommendation for the higher voltage portable drills and drivers for working hard all day, Case, but Chuck the Duck was right about the little ones for us amateur boatbuiders and fiddlers. The 12 volt drills and drivers aren't just more bang for the buck, they're smaller and less clumsy. Better for working in tight places, and handier all around.

Where more battery power would be useful is for a battery portable circular saw. I'm sure all of us would love a circular saw that didn't have a cord to drag around (and cut <g>) and the power to zip through 2x4s. The little 12 volt trim saw I've got really isn't much good for anything except cutting trim and thin plywood. Alas, I've got two good corded circular saws, and a Bosch jigsaw. <sigh> <g>

An electric chainsaw is sure great! I seldom use a chainsaw, so I ditched the last gas one and bought a corded electric saw. No worrying about whether it will start after sitting for months, no having to keep 2-stroke mix on hand, a LOT less noise. :o) That was years ago; I might buy a battery chainsaw if I needed to today. This year I gave up on the gas weedeater and got a battery weed whacker. It's a cheapo Black & Decker (parent company of Dewalt!) but I don't use it often, so I hope it'll be OK. Works great so far, and the battery lasts longer than I want to run it.

Battery powered tools have sure come a long way in recent years! :o)

On 9/3/2020 2:25 PM, Case wrote:
I had all Makita for a long time. The only reason I went with desalt was because of the table saw and chop saw. Both of which are plenty for the type of stuff we all do. If I was still doing finish carpentry for a living I’d use these in a heart beat.
This past year I rounded out my battery operated equipment with desalts weed eater, leaf blower, and 16” chainsaw. These all use the same batteries as the table and chop saws.
All of which I’ve been throughly impressed with. When I’m exploring back roads or camping the chain saw is always me. There was a ton of blow down last winter and without it we would’ve not got far many trips.
As for the 12v being enough, for occasional users they are the best
bang for the buck. If you’re running them all day long though GH the 20v is a must.
When I was in Hawaii working I was loaned a 12v Makita set to use. Didn’t cut it. I was changing batteries three times as much as the guys with 20v. So I bought the 20v drill and impact set. Mailed back the drill set, a hammer, a tape and a tool belt. Only souvenirs I brought back, lol!
Anyways the Dewalt battery tools are the real deal and I’d have no problem using them if I was still building.
--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
The cabin of a small yacht is truly a wonderful thing; not only will it shelter you from a tempest, but from the other troubles in life, it is a safe retreat. (L. Francis Herreshoff)


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Re: Thanks Coots, getting started on "stuff" -- My doctors sail boat for Sale now

Electri-Cal
 

Yep, tons of fun with battery loads -- Then there is the prop dept. as well.  I use the Kipawas for power, but I could switch back to stock 2 bladers, which stop horizontally with those controls built in.  That reduces prop draft by around 5 inches, when stopped.  So, nope the props do not rotate when shut off.  When running the Kipawas produce MORE thrust at slightly LESS amps than stock 2 bladers., blade loading probably.  The low speeds are enough more efficient for casual lake trips, easy sailing speed range saves amps.

When I get it back --  Myles has my 50 lp Minn Kota -- I'm hoping that the sleeve will allow me to use 80 lb props on it, still more to be done.  That also fits Surprise, which has a covered well for a gassie if needed.  So much fun, and summer hauls on faster than I hoped, -- again !!

John and I worked out a good back up pack plug in situation, so I will have two packs total.  Usually two batts each inside, but able to plug in two more outside the seat box on #1 circuit for longer runs.  Easy to do, but adds the 120 lb., so not needed for shorter trips, or two coots.  Also the new genset fuses & plugs are coming, then will automatically have that option to compare, but that  small gen. may not provide as much charge as needed to keep all fully charged, darn it !!   

We'll "get er done" hopefully soon.  Knee is getting way better, by next week should be fine, as I age I like my chiropractor more and more.  Oh, he is selling his sailboat,  Minn Kota motor, with everything working, and newly redone trailer.  He's sending me some sifo., so I can list it with coots.  I guess a coot would want to see it anyhow.   Price is pretty immaterial until looked over, but it's ready to sail now.  He is a pretty particular guy as a doctor, so might be worth looking at in place, as photos rarely show a boats condition very well. 

Gotta go, wiring calls with a zap !! ----  cal
  


Re: Table Saw Blues --- Burnt out motor !!

Case Turner
 

Well along the lines of the circular saw, I have a 20v Dewalt. Not the first I’ve owned. Had the makita, and a Milwaukee.

Cuts wood all day long. No cord in the way and weighs nothing.

Gave all my makita stuff to my youngest son Braxton that most had met. He’s cutting, drilling and screwing (no dirty minds allowed) everything he can!

Case

Sent from not here

On Sep 3, 2020, at 7:56 PM, John Kohnen <jkohnen@boat-links.com> wrote:

You've got the experience to back up your recommendation for the higher voltage portable drills and drivers for working hard all day, Case, but Chuck the Duck was right about the little ones for us amateur boatbuiders and fiddlers. The 12 volt drills and drivers aren't just more bang for the buck, they're smaller and less clumsy. Better for working in tight places, and handier all around.

Where more battery power would be useful is for a battery portable circular saw. I'm sure all of us would love a circular saw that didn't have a cord to drag around (and cut <g>) and the power to zip through 2x4s. The little 12 volt trim saw I've got really isn't much good for anything except cutting trim and thin plywood. Alas, I've got two good corded circular saws, and a Bosch jigsaw. <sigh> <g>

An electric chainsaw is sure great! I seldom use a chainsaw, so I ditched the last gas one and bought a corded electric saw. No worrying about whether it will start after sitting for months, no having to keep 2-stroke mix on hand, a LOT less noise. :o) That was years ago; I might buy a battery chainsaw if I needed to today. This year I gave up on the gas weedeater and got a battery weed whacker. It's a cheapo Black & Decker (parent company of Dewalt!) but I don't use it often, so I hope it'll be OK. Works great so far, and the battery lasts longer than I want to run it.

Battery powered tools have sure come a long way in recent years! :o)

On 9/3/2020 2:25 PM, Case wrote:
I had all Makita for a long time. The only reason I went with desalt was because of the table saw and chop saw. Both of which are plenty for the type of stuff we all do. If I was still doing finish carpentry for a living I’d use these in a heart beat.
This past year I rounded out my battery operated equipment with desalts weed eater, leaf blower, and 16” chainsaw. These all use the same batteries as the table and chop saws.
All of which I’ve been throughly impressed with. When I’m exploring back roads or camping the chain saw is always me. There was a ton of blow down last winter and without it we would’ve not got far many trips.
As for the 12v being enough, for occasional users they are the best
bang for the buck. If you’re running them all day long though GH the 20v is a must.
When I was in Hawaii working I was loaned a 12v Makita set to use. Didn’t cut it. I was changing batteries three times as much as the guys with 20v. So I bought the 20v drill and impact set. Mailed back the drill set, a hammer, a tape and a tool belt. Only souvenirs I brought back, lol!
Anyways the Dewalt battery tools are the real deal and I’d have no problem using them if I was still building.
--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
The cabin of a small yacht is truly a wonderful thing; not only will it shelter you from a tempest, but from the other troubles in life, it is a safe retreat. (L. Francis Herreshoff)


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Re: Last Call for Saturday Coot Lunch and Voyage Planning Session

elaineginader
 

I'd really like to come but this weekend is full. Please let me know in what is discussed as I'm definitely going on the cruise. 

Elaine

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020, 8:01 PM John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:
Please let us know if you're planning on coming to the lunch and
Sauvie's Island Circumnavigation planning session this Saturday, at
1:00, at Earl's place north of Corvallis. Cherrill will be making lunch,
so she needs to know how much food to make.

If you don't know how to find Earl's, let me know and I'll send you
directions.

--
John <jkohnen@...>
Things don't improve with age. Look at your truck. Look at your roof.
Look in the mirror! (Red Green)


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Last Call for Saturday Coot Lunch and Voyage Planning Session

 

Please let us know if you're planning on coming to the lunch and Sauvie's Island Circumnavigation planning session this Saturday, at 1:00, at Earl's place north of Corvallis. Cherrill will be making lunch, so she needs to know how much food to make.

If you don't know how to find Earl's, let me know and I'll send you directions.

--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
Things don't improve with age. Look at your truck. Look at your roof. Look in the mirror! (Red Green)


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Re: Table Saw Blues --- Burnt out motor !!

 

You've got the experience to back up your recommendation for the higher voltage portable drills and drivers for working hard all day, Case, but Chuck the Duck was right about the little ones for us amateur boatbuiders and fiddlers. The 12 volt drills and drivers aren't just more bang for the buck, they're smaller and less clumsy. Better for working in tight places, and handier all around.

Where more battery power would be useful is for a battery portable circular saw. I'm sure all of us would love a circular saw that didn't have a cord to drag around (and cut <g>) and the power to zip through 2x4s. The little 12 volt trim saw I've got really isn't much good for anything except cutting trim and thin plywood. Alas, I've got two good corded circular saws, and a Bosch jigsaw. <sigh> <g>

An electric chainsaw is sure great! I seldom use a chainsaw, so I ditched the last gas one and bought a corded electric saw. No worrying about whether it will start after sitting for months, no having to keep 2-stroke mix on hand, a LOT less noise. :o) That was years ago; I might buy a battery chainsaw if I needed to today. This year I gave up on the gas weedeater and got a battery weed whacker. It's a cheapo Black & Decker (parent company of Dewalt!) but I don't use it often, so I hope it'll be OK. Works great so far, and the battery lasts longer than I want to run it.

Battery powered tools have sure come a long way in recent years! :o)

On 9/3/2020 2:25 PM, Case wrote:
I had all Makita for a long time. The only reason I went with desalt was because of the table saw and chop saw. Both of which are plenty for the type of stuff we all do. If I was still doing finish carpentry for a living I’d use these in a heart beat.
This past year I rounded out my battery operated equipment with desalts weed eater, leaf blower, and 16” chainsaw. These all use the same batteries as the table and chop saws.
All of which I’ve been throughly impressed with. When I’m exploring back roads or camping the chain saw is always me. There was a ton of blow down last winter and without it we would’ve not got far many trips.
> As for the 12v being enough, for occasional users they are the best
bang for the buck. If you’re running them all day long though GH the 20v is a must.
When I was in Hawaii working I was loaned a 12v Makita set to use. Didn’t cut it. I was changing batteries three times as much as the guys with 20v. So I bought the 20v drill and impact set. Mailed back the drill set, a hammer, a tape and a tool belt. Only souvenirs I brought back, lol!
Anyways the Dewalt battery tools are the real deal and I’d have no problem using them if I was still building.
--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
The cabin of a small yacht is truly a wonderful thing; not only will it shelter you from a tempest, but from the other troubles in life, it is a safe retreat. (L. Francis Herreshoff)


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Re: Table Saw Blues --- Burnt out motor !!

Case Turner
 

I had all Makita for a long time. The only reason I went with desalt was because of the table saw and chop saw. Both of which are plenty for the type of stuff we all do. If I was still doing finish carpentry for a living I’d use these in a heart beat.

This past year I rounded out my battery operated equipment with desalts weed eater, leaf blower, and 16” chainsaw. These all use the same batteries as the table and chop saws.

All of which I’ve been throughly impressed with. When I’m exploring back roads or camping the chain saw is always me. There was a ton of blow down last winter and without it we would’ve not got far many trips.

As for the 12v being enough, for occasional users they are the best bang for the buck. If you’re running them all day long though GH the 20v is a must.

When I was in Hawaii working I was loaned a 12v Makita set to use. Didn’t cut it. I was changing batteries three times as much as the guys with 20v. So I bought the 20v drill and impact set. Mailed back the drill set, a hammer, a tape and a tool belt. Only souvenirs I brought back, lol!

Anyways the Dewalt battery tools are the real deal and I’d have no problem using them if I was still building.

Case

Sent from not here

On Sep 3, 2020, at 2:07 PM, John Kohnen <jkohnen@boat-links.com> wrote:

I had no idea useful battery table saws existed:

https://preview.tinyurl.com/y3ntfrkr

But I'm lucky enough to have a place to plug in a saw.

I sure do love cordless drills and impact drivers, though. :o) Chuck the Duck told me that there was no reason to get anything bigger than the 12 volt (nominal) ones, and he was right. Plenty of power and handier than the bigger ones. I think the big ones are marketed towards the same sort of men who drive huge pickups and put great big motors on their boats. <g> Chuck was also right that once I tried on of the impact drivers I'd fall in love with it. ;o) I went with a Makita set, and haven't been sorry. The same batteries power my mini-vac and a little bitty circular saw.

On 9/2/2020 7:43 PM, Case wrote:
When we sold our last house that had a shop I sold all my big floor saws.
I now have all Deealt battery operated gear. Chop saw, table saw, drills, etc.
Really like all of them.
--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
I'll believe anything, no matter how wild and ridiculous, if there is evidence for it. The wilder and more ridiculous something is, however, the firmer and more solid the evidence will have to be. (Isaac Asimov)


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Re: Table saw notes.

 

Carson's does all kinds of sharpening. I go there most often to get a lawnmower blade sharpened.

On 9/3/2020 12:01 PM, Jove wrote:
I've not used Carson saw yet,
The mexican food cart there is indeed good, I've eaten there several times.

If a carbide blade is from a good manufacturer it might be worth having
its bad teeth replaced. I go to Carson's saw shop, on Blair between 6th
and 7th in Eugene, for my sharpening needs. They go all ga-ga over my
old Freud blade when I bring it in, but they reluctantly replaced some
teeth on a Grizzly blade after I did the math and concluded that it was
enough cheaper to fix the cheapo blade instead of buying another.
https://www.carsonsawshop.com/
They say that the Mexican food stand parked out front is real good too,
but I haven't tried them yet...
--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. (Benjamin Franklin)
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Re: Thanks Coots, getting started on "stuff"

 

Tuffy ghosts along pretty good in almost imperceptible breezes, despite having a dead motor like one of Cal's bolted to the side of her keel. At such low speed surface friction is just about all of the drag, there's no turbulence from the motor, propeller and struts. That's probably the case up to maybe about 2 mph (I could check, but I'm lazy), so running Cal's boat on only one of its motors should win out at slow speeds. Things get more interesting when we go a little faster... <g>

Cal can turn off one of the motors, but there's no way to control their speeds separately. It's well known that running an electric motor very slowly when a boat is sailing reduces drag significantly.

It'll be fun to do some experimenting with Surprise. :o)

On 9/3/2020 10:33 AM, Myles T wrote:
It would be an interesting experiment to compare running one vs two motors driving the boat at a given speed. It's likely a wash in terms of loss in the controller and given near identical prop characteristics between the two, you're talking about doubling the prop loading in the 1-motor scenario compared to 2. At low loads (and speeds), that might not amount to much of an efficiency reduction to drive with just 1 prop, and might even result in the prop operating closer to its higher efficiency zone (Gerr's prop manual might inform here). But as the boat drag goes up with the square of the speed, at the higher speeds, having the dual props and dual motors sharing the load likely wins out big time assuming we're talking about speeds where the loading nears the high end of the motor's rating. And motor torque via motor current delivers that force.
Motor heat loss (2mtrs) ~ 2 * k2 * Rmtr * (Fdrag/2)^2
= k2 * (Rmtr * Fdrag ^ 2) / 2
Motor heat loss (1mtr) ~ k1* Rmtr * Fdrag ^ 2
Assuming k1 ~ k2 (conversion losses in controller, prop loading, etc. are near same), we should expect the single-motor configuration to have about 2-times the heat loss as for the 2-motor case.
So even if prop efficiency for the 1- or 2-motor scenario were identical (unlikely) at the high speeds, we should expect twice the heat loss.
Now, how much of the total power to the controller(s) is lost to motor heat due to motor current? It's a lot, but the efficiency of the propeller, combined with the drivetrain is the shortest stick---this could be as high as 70% at speed or as low as 50-55%. This, compared to a difference between 90% vs 80% efficiency for a lightly, vs highly loaded motor. Controller efficiency is likely in the 95% zone. Cable and battery losses also factor in.
Add to this, dragging an undriven prop thru the water---best to drive that prop with just the right amount of power that its current draw just starts to increase. At that point, it is presenting minimal drag.
Bottom line: Prop efficiency is paramount. Loading the prop to the point that its operating point moves out of the higher efficiency zones quickly defeats other gains you might attain elsewhere (e.g. by driving with just 1 motor). Add to this, I^2R losses in the motor and battery/cabling quickly conspire against you. But it all depends on the loading. At low speeds and loads, the single prop drive likely wins out. As speed and load increases, single prop loses.
Still, let the data speak :-) .

--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
Assistance given to the weak makes the one who gives it strong. (Booker T. Washington)
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Re: Table Saw Blues --- Burnt out motor !!

 

I had no idea useful battery table saws existed:

https://preview.tinyurl.com/y3ntfrkr

But I'm lucky enough to have a place to plug in a saw.

I sure do love cordless drills and impact drivers, though. :o) Chuck the Duck told me that there was no reason to get anything bigger than the 12 volt (nominal) ones, and he was right. Plenty of power and handier than the bigger ones. I think the big ones are marketed towards the same sort of men who drive huge pickups and put great big motors on their boats. <g> Chuck was also right that once I tried on of the impact drivers I'd fall in love with it. ;o) I went with a Makita set, and haven't been sorry. The same batteries power my mini-vac and a little bitty circular saw.

On 9/2/2020 7:43 PM, Case wrote:
When we sold our last house that had a shop I sold all my big floor saws.
I now have all Deealt battery operated gear. Chop saw, table saw, drills, etc.
Really like all of them.
--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
I'll believe anything, no matter how wild and ridiculous, if there is evidence for it. The wilder and more ridiculous something is, however, the firmer and more solid the evidence will have to be. (Isaac Asimov)
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Re: Table saw notes.

Jove Lachman-Curl
 

I've not used Carson saw yet,
The mexican food cart there is indeed good, I've eaten there several times.
-Jove


On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 11:04 PM John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:
If a carbide blade is from a good manufacturer it might be worth having
its bad teeth replaced. I go to Carson's saw shop, on Blair between 6th
and 7th in Eugene, for my sharpening needs. They go all ga-ga over my
old Freud blade when I bring it in, but they reluctantly replaced some
teeth on a Grizzly blade after I did the math and concluded that it was
enough cheaper to fix the cheapo blade instead of buying another.

https://www.carsonsawshop.com/

They say that the Mexican food stand parked out front is real good too,
but I haven't tried them yet...

On 9/2/2020 9:24 AM, Electri-Cal wrote:
> ...
> I scrapped 3 older saw blades, chipped teeth, gone carbide ,
> hitting ss screws, a great help, maybe other coots might take a
> dedicated look at one of our most used tools, while its warm enough to
> enjoy the task.  At least a new red Diablo combo saw might help the
> cutting process??
> ...

--
John <jkohnen@...>
Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it. (Henry David Thoreau)


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Re: Thanks Coots, getting started on "stuff"

Myles Twete
 

It would be an interesting experiment to compare running one vs two motors driving the boat at a given speed. It's likely a wash in terms of loss in the controller and given near identical prop characteristics between the two, you're talking about doubling the prop loading in the 1-motor scenario compared to 2. At low loads (and speeds), that might not amount to much of an efficiency reduction to drive with just 1 prop, and might even result in the prop operating closer to its higher efficiency zone (Gerr's prop manual might inform here). But as the boat drag goes up with the square of the speed, at the higher speeds, having the dual props and dual motors sharing the load likely wins out big time assuming we're talking about speeds where the loading nears the high end of the motor's rating. And motor torque via motor current delivers that force.

Motor heat loss (2mtrs) ~ 2 * k2 * Rmtr * (Fdrag/2)^2
= k2 * (Rmtr * Fdrag ^ 2) / 2

Motor heat loss (1mtr) ~ k1* Rmtr * Fdrag ^ 2

Assuming k1 ~ k2 (conversion losses in controller, prop loading, etc. are near same), we should expect the single-motor configuration to have about 2-times the heat loss as for the 2-motor case.

So even if prop efficiency for the 1- or 2-motor scenario were identical (unlikely) at the high speeds, we should expect twice the heat loss.

Now, how much of the total power to the controller(s) is lost to motor heat due to motor current? It's a lot, but the efficiency of the propeller, combined with the drivetrain is the shortest stick---this could be as high as 70% at speed or as low as 50-55%. This, compared to a difference between 90% vs 80% efficiency for a lightly, vs highly loaded motor. Controller efficiency is likely in the 95% zone. Cable and battery losses also factor in.

Add to this, dragging an undriven prop thru the water---best to drive that prop with just the right amount of power that its current draw just starts to increase. At that point, it is presenting minimal drag.

Bottom line: Prop efficiency is paramount. Loading the prop to the point that its operating point moves out of the higher efficiency zones quickly defeats other gains you might attain elsewhere (e.g. by driving with just 1 motor). Add to this, I^2R losses in the motor and battery/cabling quickly conspire against you. But it all depends on the loading. At low speeds and loads, the single prop drive likely wins out. As speed and load increases, single prop loses.

Still, let the data speak :-) .

-MylesT

-----Original Message-----
From: oregoncoots@groups.io [mailto:oregoncoots@groups.io] On Behalf Of John Kohnen
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2020 10:55 PM
To: oregoncoots@groups.io
Subject: Re: [oregoncoots] Thanks Coots, getting started on "stuff"

I visited Cal today. His ammeter was hooked up somehow so it measured the current going to the motors, at least, but he was using a 200 amp shunt for a 100 amp gauge. which I now know isn't kosher. We moved the shunt to the common ground and replaced the shunt with a 100 amp one Cal had lying around. Maybe even the one that originally came with the gauge. <g> He should be getting more accurate and complete current readings now -- if the shunt's mV rating matches the gauge -- but we can't tell until we get the boat in the water, and Cal bunged up his knee so that'll be later, after he gets it rested up.

The dial ammeter Cal's been using isn't very precise. It has a range up to 100 amps, and the swing of the needle is only about 90 degrees. We really should keep trying to talk him into getting a digital gauge so he can keep better track of the current draw under different conditions.
Like trying different propellers.

Cal's idea about switching off one motor to save juice is an interesting one to ponder while sitting in our armchairs. Since he started dreaming up Surprise I thought Cal only needed one of the 80 lb. motors for her.
But now he's got two bolted to her bottom. Let's say he's cruising along with both motors at 3 mph. the switches one off and "throttles" up the other until he's going 3 mph again. Will he use less juice? The motors have a fairly efficient pulse width modulated speed control, so not much juice is wasted when running both motors at a reduced speed. If he switches off one motor it's still there under the boat with its propeller free wheeling causing drag. Two motors running slow, or one motor running harder and dragging a dead motor. Which will give longer range? If we can rig up a more precise ammeter in Surprise we can have fun doing some experimenting. :o)

I looked at the documentation that came with Cal's motors. Their instructions for installing them are probably OK, but I was looking for specifications. In vain. <sigh> But I did find something interesting.
They said that the rule of thumb for current draw for their 12 volt motors is 1 amp per pound of thrust, but the rule of thumb for 24 volt motors is 3/4 amp per pound of thrust! I wonder whty it isn't just half the draw of the 12 volt jobs, as you'd expect... So Tuffy;s 50ish amp draw at full chat isn't above her rating. Cal's motors could draw 120 amps at full power,


On 9/2/2020 7:56 AM, Electri-Cal wrote:
...
When Myles Swift and I at the very first trial used my 40 lb clamp on
Minn Kota at Dexter, we had a great time. Same at first Fern Ridge
trip, clamp on 40 lb. -- big ol' stick handle up in the air, no other
power needed. So, back to the beginning, using one 80 lb., like the
one on John Kohnens sail boat, coupled to 4 series 27's and the "close
"enough for now" gauges ought to run for quite a while.
...
--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
A strong nation, like a strong person, can afford to be gentle, firm, thoughtful, and restrained. It can afford to extend a helping hand to others. It is a weak nation, like a weak person, that must behave with bluster and boasting and rashness and other signs of insecurity. (Jimmy
Carter)


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Re: Table saw notes.

 

If a carbide blade is from a good manufacturer it might be worth having its bad teeth replaced. I go to Carson's saw shop, on Blair between 6th and 7th in Eugene, for my sharpening needs. They go all ga-ga over my old Freud blade when I bring it in, but they reluctantly replaced some teeth on a Grizzly blade after I did the math and concluded that it was enough cheaper to fix the cheapo blade instead of buying another.

https://www.carsonsawshop.com/

They say that the Mexican food stand parked out front is real good too, but I haven't tried them yet...

On 9/2/2020 9:24 AM, Electri-Cal wrote:
...
I scrapped 3 older saw blades, chipped teeth, gone carbide , hitting ss screws, a great help, maybe other coots might take a dedicated look at one of our most used tools, while its warm enough to enjoy the task.  At least a new red Diablo combo saw might help the cutting process??
...
--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it. (Henry David Thoreau)
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Re: Thanks Coots, getting started on "stuff"

 

I visited Cal today. His ammeter was hooked up somehow so it measured the current going to the motors, at least, but he was using a 200 amp shunt for a 100 amp gauge. which I now know isn't kosher. We moved the shunt to the common ground and replaced the shunt with a 100 amp one Cal had lying around. Maybe even the one that originally came with the gauge. <g> He should be getting more accurate and complete current readings now -- if the shunt's mV rating matches the gauge -- but we can't tell until we get the boat in the water, and Cal bunged up his knee so that'll be later, after he gets it rested up.

The dial ammeter Cal's been using isn't very precise. It has a range up to 100 amps, and the swing of the needle is only about 90 degrees. We really should keep trying to talk him into getting a digital gauge so he can keep better track of the current draw under different conditions. Like trying different propellers.

Cal's idea about switching off one motor to save juice is an interesting one to ponder while sitting in our armchairs. Since he started dreaming up Surprise I thought Cal only needed one of the 80 lb. motors for her. But now he's got two bolted to her bottom. Let's say he's cruising along with both motors at 3 mph. the switches one off and "throttles" up the other until he's going 3 mph again. Will he use less juice? The motors have a fairly efficient pulse width modulated speed control, so not much juice is wasted when running both motors at a reduced speed. If he switches off one motor it's still there under the boat with its propeller free wheeling causing drag. Two motors running slow, or one motor running harder and dragging a dead motor. Which will give longer range? If we can rig up a more precise ammeter in Surprise we can have fun doing some experimenting. :o)

I looked at the documentation that came with Cal's motors. Their instructions for installing them are probably OK, but I was looking for specifications. In vain. <sigh> But I did find something interesting. They said that the rule of thumb for current draw for their 12 volt motors is 1 amp per pound of thrust, but the rule of thumb for 24 volt motors is 3/4 amp per pound of thrust! I wonder whty it isn't just half the draw of the 12 volt jobs, as you'd expect... So Tuffy;s 50ish amp draw at full chat isn't above her rating. Cal's motors could draw 120 amps at full power,

On 9/2/2020 7:56 AM, Electri-Cal wrote:
...
When Myles Swift and I at the very first trial used my 40 lb clamp on Minn Kota at Dexter, we had a great time.  Same at first Fern Ridge trip, clamp on 40 lb. --  big ol' stick handle up in the air, no other power needed. So, back to the beginning, using one 80 lb., like the one on John Kohnens sail boat, coupled to 4 series 27's and the "close "enough for now" gauges ought to run for quite a while. ...
--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
A strong nation, like a strong person, can afford to be gentle, firm, thoughtful, and restrained. It can afford to extend a helping hand to others. It is a weak nation, like a weak person, that must behave with bluster and boasting and rashness and other signs of insecurity. (Jimmy Carter)
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com


Re: Mini 12 meter Boomer parts for 4 boats

 

Jove still has a job. Cuts into his boat time terribly, but they keep throwing money at him, so what can he do? <g>

I thought Toledo Joe would have piped up by now. The Retired Old Geezers at the Toledo Boathouses sail Dragon Force 65s. I don't know how much of that is going on now, what with the Dread Virus. <sigh> It seems like RC sailing ought to be something folks could do with safe social distancing.

https://dragonforce65.us/

On 9/1/2020 4:58 PM, Electri-Cal wrote:
Come on by, Jove !!
...
--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
Just think what a dull world it would be if everyone was sensible. (Lucy Maud Montgomery)
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Re: Table Saw Blues --- Burnt out motor !!

Case Turner
 

When we sold our last house that had a shop I sold all my big floor saws. 

I now have all Deealt battery operated gear. Chop saw, table saw, drills, etc. 

Really like all of them. 

Case

Sent from not here

On Sep 2, 2020, at 6:54 PM, Jhcalbany@... via groups.io <Jhcalbany@...> wrote:

Don't be like me, Cal. I had a cheepie Craftsman table saw that I got on sale for $ 99.00 & in 3 or 4 years burnt the motor out. I got all the numbers & gave them to my wife & had her order a motor from Craftsman. When it got here the bill was $ 102.00. Jim

--
Dirt


Re: Table Saw Blues --- Burnt out motor !!

Jhcalbany@aol.com
 

Don't be like me, Cal. I had a cheepie Craftsman table saw that I got on sale for $ 99.00 & in 3 or 4 years burnt the motor out. I got all the numbers & gave them to my wife & had her order a motor from Craftsman. When it got here the bill was $ 102.00. Jim


Re: Table saw notes.

Pete Leenhouts
 

very helpful, Cal, thank you.

Pete
Port Ludlow
Having table saw troubles 


-----Original Message-----
From: Electri-Cal <calboats@...>
To: oregoncoots@groups.io
Sent: Wed, Sep 2, 2020 9:24 am
Subject: [oregoncoots] Table saw notes.

Finished the belt replacement, new brushes as long as the motor was out.  I added a 3 wire plug, then wrapped that in dust proof cover.  If another service is needed, it will just unplug in a jiffy.  It was good to have the motor to get the right belt etc,. without the hassle of unwiring the switch way up inside.  Harbor Freight makes a dust catcher for most table saws for $7.00  that hooks under the stand up frame, think i'll add one of those.  Gets tired of the cats in the sawdust.   Maybe a paneling in of the floor stand would catch more too.  All this, and I scrapped 3 older saw blades, chipped teeth, gone carbide , hitting ss screws, a great help, maybe other coots might take a dedicated look at one of our most used tools, while its warm enough to enjoy the task.  At least a new red Diablo combo saw might help the cutting process??

Just in case !!!  Do we have a good source for a driveway blading and re gravelling ??  Our access is needing a new smooth and topcoat this year sometime.

Have a great day, ----  Cal

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