Date   

Re: Table Saw Blues --- Burnt out motor !!

Jhcalbany@aol.com
 

Don't be like me, Cal. I had a cheepie Craftsman table saw that I got on sale for $ 99.00 & in 3 or 4 years burnt the motor out. I got all the numbers & gave them to my wife & had her order a motor from Craftsman. When it got here the bill was $ 102.00. Jim


Re: Table saw notes.

Pete Leenhouts
 

very helpful, Cal, thank you.

Pete
Port Ludlow
Having table saw troubles 


-----Original Message-----
From: Electri-Cal <calboats@...>
To: oregoncoots@groups.io
Sent: Wed, Sep 2, 2020 9:24 am
Subject: [oregoncoots] Table saw notes.

Finished the belt replacement, new brushes as long as the motor was out.  I added a 3 wire plug, then wrapped that in dust proof cover.  If another service is needed, it will just unplug in a jiffy.  It was good to have the motor to get the right belt etc,. without the hassle of unwiring the switch way up inside.  Harbor Freight makes a dust catcher for most table saws for $7.00  that hooks under the stand up frame, think i'll add one of those.  Gets tired of the cats in the sawdust.   Maybe a paneling in of the floor stand would catch more too.  All this, and I scrapped 3 older saw blades, chipped teeth, gone carbide , hitting ss screws, a great help, maybe other coots might take a dedicated look at one of our most used tools, while its warm enough to enjoy the task.  At least a new red Diablo combo saw might help the cutting process??

Just in case !!!  Do we have a good source for a driveway blading and re gravelling ??  Our access is needing a new smooth and topcoat this year sometime.

Have a great day, ----  Cal


Table saw notes.

Electri-Cal
 

Finished the belt replacement, new brushes as long as the motor was out.  I added a 3 wire plug, then wrapped that in dust proof cover.  If another service is needed, it will just unplug in a jiffy.  It was good to have the motor to get the right belt etc,. without the hassle of unwiring the switch way up inside.  Harbor Freight makes a dust catcher for most table saws for $7.00  that hooks under the stand up frame, think i'll add one of those.  Gets tired of the cats in the sawdust.   Maybe a paneling in of the floor stand would catch more too.  All this, and I scrapped 3 older saw blades, chipped teeth, gone carbide , hitting ss screws, a great help, maybe other coots might take a dedicated look at one of our most used tools, while its warm enough to enjoy the task.  At least a new red Diablo combo saw might help the cutting process??

Just in case !!!  Do we have a good source for a driveway blading and re gravelling ??  Our access is needing a new smooth and topcoat this year sometime.

Have a great day, ----  Cal


Thanks Coots, getting started on "stuff"

Electri-Cal
 

I see Jove got me to relook at the gauge, I installed it yesterday.  I used a bridge that was there all ready, so just double the voltage figures, easy to do.  Same for the larger amp draw gauge, ordered a convenient rated unit, so both can be looked at and read as a 12 volt setup,  As i mentioned, when under clear water easy cruise. solo minimum weight to push it also works, I think.  Plan is to periodically change from one 80 lb. thrust single to the other to minimize wear factors, cruise then should be pretty good with all 4 batts,. on one motor at a time.

When Myles Swift and I at the very first trial used my 40 lb clamp on Minn Kota at Dexter, we had a great time.  Same at first Fern Ridge trip, clamp on 40 lb. --  big ol' stick handle up in the air, no other power needed. So, back to the beginning, using one 80 lb., like the one on John Kohnens sail boat, coupled to 4 series 27's and the "close "enough for now" gauges ought to run for quite a while.  I might even try the original 2 blade props, since one 3 blade prop shut down, has more drag.  For testing, I plan on the same 2 - 24 volt packs and see if the in water range gets extended by much, using each alone -- so the reserve power is still there, for now.

Still planning on that genset, or back up pack, since I own two extra batts. for later options.   That should give me (estimate here)  from notes in summary -- 15 amp. is 2.8 mph --  then jumps to 20 amps at  3.1 mph.  -- 30 amps at 3.6 so that is not so hot.  That's with both motors, cut that close to half draw, don't add more speed to compensate over 3 mph.   Does 10/12 amps at about 3.0 mph one motor running make sense, in the right weather and load??   I'm an optimist of course, so a repeated testing at Dexter looks to be a good step, soon as the easier reading wider scale amp meter comes in next week. 

PS, older Honda (small) 400 gensets do NOT use standard fuses, odd special sizes from 1978 types.  I ordered mini blade type fuse holders to take modern fuses, some stuff can not be predicted !!

Later, Coots time for home chores, lunch with John K. here, yay !! ---  Cal



Anyhoo!!  That is the plan, as always observations are welcome 




Re: This Saturday: Sauvie's Island Circumnavigation Planning Meeting

Richard Green
 

I seldom go anywhere but I’d be there except just got tested the second time in five days for the covid so having to lay low.  I’ve circumnavigated Sauvie island a few times in different boats including one trip at close to 40 mph in a old friend’s boat, still have nightmares.  Willow Bar, a pooka on the Columbia side used to be ‘just a moorage’ until the PYC bought it for a destination for their members.  I moored my Columbia 21 there for eleven dollars a month.  Ten minutes from parking and you were “out to sea” in the Columbia, mid island.  Spent a couple summers there, the best small boat sailing on the entire lower river.  Winds all summer blowing upstream so tack down to St Helens, run back to Kelly point.  Anchor and swim in to the Marshall Beach Tavern a bit upstream from Willow Bar, clam strips and shoot pool…until it burned to the ground a couple years later.  

Rich



On Sep 2, 2020, at 1:37 AM, John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:

This Saturday, the 5th, starting at 1:00, we're gonna have a socially distanced, outdoor lunch and planning session at Earl's, north of Corvallis, for the Columbia River and Multnomah Channel cruise later this month. Cherrill will make us lunch. Please let us know if you're gonna come, so she can make enough food.

Coots who aren't planning on doing the circumnavgation can come too, just to get some boat BSing in.

If you don't know how to get to Earl's, let me know and I'll send you directions
--
John <jkohnen@...>
A facility for quotation covers the absence of original thought. (Lord Peter Wimsey)
Sent from some sort of mobile device.





This Saturday: Sauvie's Island Circumnavigation Planning Meeting

 

This Saturday, the 5th, starting at 1:00, we're gonna have a socially distanced, outdoor lunch and planning session at Earl's, north of Corvallis, for the Columbia River and Multnomah Channel cruise later this month. Cherrill will make us lunch. Please let us know if you're gonna come, so she can make enough food.

Coots who aren't planning on doing the circumnavgation can come too, just to get some boat BSing in.

If you don't know how to get to Earl's, let me know and I'll send you directions
--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
A facility for quotation covers the absence of original thought. (Lord Peter Wimsey)
Sent from some sort of mobile device.


Re: Mini 12 meter Boomer parts for 4 boats

Electri-Cal
 

Come on by, Jove !!  I have one of the 12 's the electric runabout of course, and you would be welcome to set awhile, bag a beer, or whatever.  I have week days off till 4 pm, when my wife gets home.  Unfortunately that also has my weekends pretty full.  Seems like John Kohnen, and Charlie Vader are the other locals who can make it this a way, so the more the merrier.  The  is well along, but I'm ambiguous about it at this point.  Everything is good even a new radio, etc. at least worth a viewing so you can see what it looks like.

ZZZZipp !!  Later, ----  Cal



Re: Mini 12 meter Boomer parts for 4 boats

Randy Torgerson
 

If you watch Acorn To Arabella, the boys there bought Victoria for parts and I believe she was an Atkins Eric.  There are several videos on Victoria and the one where they dismantle her is very informative of that happens to a wooden boat when you don't maintain her properly.  The keel was rotted away and filled with junk.

Randy


Re: Gauge Number from eBay ---- Wiring question, about 24 volt and "bridges" -- update for today

johnacord
 

Jove,

That's an interesting graph of state of charge, SOC, vs discharge rate, and appears to be at a constant load (with various load rates graphed).  How does that relate to varying loads?

SOC of a lead acid by voltage reading is normally determined at rest, and for an accurate SOC at rest for 12-24 hours.  When the load goes to zero, or some small %, then the battery will rise to a voltage less than true reading of SOC.  This can be a good representation of SOC with a somewhat small bias short of real SOC as long as you take the reading in the same way consistently.

Before I had an Amp-Hour meter I just had two readouts, voltage and current.  By reading the voltage a time after the current dropped to the minimum value (assuming there were always some small loads) I would get a good idea of the SOC.  It seemed to be within a few percent, but the main thing was to see that I did not discharge too deeply.

John A


Re: Gauge Number from eBay ---- Wiring question, about 24 volt and "bridges" -- update for today

 

That's good to know. Thanks, John. That means for about 16 bucks Cal could get a battery monitor that seems to work alright, from the reviews, and wouldn't have to buy anything extra:

https://smile.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B01JOUZELG/themotherofal-20

I keep learning... I thought that the voltage drop rating -- mV -- was for a set current determined by some standard. Say 100 amps, so a 75 mV shunt would have a voltage drop of 75 mV at 100 amp current, whether the shunt was rated to handle 100 amps or 500 amps. No. That'd make life too easy. <g> If your gauge says to use a 75 mV, 100 amp shunt, then you'd better use a shunt just like that:

"Shunts are rated by the maximum current and voltage drop at that current. For example, a 500 A, 75 mV shunt would have a resistance of 150 microohm, a maximum allowable current of 500 amps and at that current the voltage drop would be 75 millivolts. By convention, most shunts are designed to drop 50 mV, 75 mV or 100 mV when operating at their full rated current and most ammeters consist of a shunt and a voltmeter with full-scale deflections of 50, 75, or 100 mV. All shunts have a derating factor for continuous (more than 2 minutes) use, 66% being the most common, so the example shunt should not be operated above 330 A (and 50 mV drop) longer than that."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shunt_(electrical)

I'm gonna visit Cal Wednesday to see what's going on with Surprise's wiring.

On 8/31/2020 6:02 PM, john acord wrote:
If you are running 80A, a 100A shunt is fine.  If you run a bit more than 100A it will just heat a little and that's OK for short periods.
I like to keep a shunt and meter around for testing and setting things up.  A meter made for panel mount is generally not so practical, generally needs voltage too, so I just use a shunt and my digital voltmeter.  The photo attached is a 50A 50mv shunt:  each mv read across the shunt is an amp.  I just wire it into whatever circuit I want to measure.
I don't know why 75mv shunts seem prevalent.  ?? Makes the reading an odd factor of amps, ie 75mv = 100A.  So how many amps is 32mv.........??
Remember, a shunt is just a precision resistor.  If you want to measure small currents just go buy a 1% resistor of the appropriate value from the electronic supply house and use the same way as in the photo.
--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assaults of thoughts on the unthinking. (John Maynard Keynes)
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Re: Mini 12 meter Boomer parts for 4 boats

 

I believe only David Birch has completed his Boomer. It shouldn't take much to get mine sailing, but it's been sitting on the back burner.... Cal's is coming along too. I don't remember who has the fourth Boomer...

The Triton and Eugene Yacht Clubs have tried to get RC sailing in the winter going. I don't know if they're still at it. I've heard that they got too serious and competitive and scared the fun people away. <sigh>

You should ask over on the Fernsail group:

https://groups.io/g/Fernsail/

What! You're not a member? Shame on you. ;o) I'll send you an invite.

On 8/31/2020 3:51 PM, Jove wrote:
John,
As the fern ridge sailing season tapers off, I'm finding myself more and more interested in RC boats again.
Where can I catch people sailing RC boats around here?
How did the Boomer project go for everyone last year?
Are there any boomer hulls or other RC sailing equipment available?
Here is a nice picture of an RC model of Suhaili, Robin Knox-johston's 32'er. made by some French RC group.
At this point, I'd really like to try sailing and RC boat to just see if I like it before invest much more time or effort into the idea, So if anyone has a boat, knows a group, or etc. Let me know.
image.png
best,
--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
As I slowly grow wise I briskly grow cautious. (Mark Twain)
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Re: Mini 12 meter Boomer parts for 4 boats

 

Suhaili is an Atkin Eric. Robin Knox-Johnson bought some cheap plans in India, where he built Suhaili, and years later discovered that they were the Atkin drawings copied with the designer's info blocked out!

http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Articles/MacNaughton/Eric.html

Bill Crealock took the Eric (actually Thistle -- same hull, raised deck) design and modified it for fiberglass construction as the Westsail 32. After the first few boats were built Westsails had a trunk cabin, like Eric. The first manufacturer of Westsails paid a royalty to the Atkins. The original Erics and Thistles sail better than Wetsnails. <shrug>

http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Sail/Thistle.html

http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Sail/Eric.html

On 8/31/2020 4:06 PM, Rich G wrote:
I sailed a FC version of Suhaili named Suhail, cutter rigged,  from Honolulu to Astoria in1980.  Fun trip, a bit bouncy.
--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
He who establishes his argument by noise and command, shows that his reason is weak. (Michel De Montaigne)
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Re: Gauge Number from eBay ---- Wiring question, about 24 volt and "bridges" -- update for today

Jove Lachman-Curl
 

Good info guys,
here is a good diagram from another ebay meter I came across. (nice URL link feature John will like that)
I think Cal should be able to use voltage as a good proxy for how much capacity he has left. He may want to throttle off, and measure pack voltage, that is one area where the steady voltage decline of lead acids is realy helpful vs lithium ion which don't seem to have much voltage sag over the central 90 of their capacity so voltage doesn't tell you much unless you're FUL or very empty. This should negate the need for a "reserve tank"... second image. C rate on the right side of the curve is full battery discharge per hour. so C=1 is discharged in one hour. C/3 =3hours. The article is an interesting read.
image.png
image.png

On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 6:02 PM johnacord <jcacord@...> wrote:
If you are running 80A, a 100A shunt is fine.  If you run a bit more than 100A it will just heat a little and that's OK for short periods.

I like to keep a shunt and meter around for testing and setting things up.  A meter made for panel mount is generally not so practical, generally needs voltage too, so I just use a shunt and my digital voltmeter.  The photo attached is a 50A 50mv shunt:  each mv read across the shunt is an amp.  I just wire it into whatever circuit I want to measure.

I don't know why 75mv shunts seem prevalent.  ?? Makes the reading an odd factor of amps, ie 75mv = 100A.  So how many amps is 32mv.........??

Remember, a shunt is just a precision resistor.  If you want to measure small currents just go buy a 1% resistor of the appropriate value from the electronic supply house and use the same way as in the photo.

John A


Re: Gauge Number from eBay ---- Wiring question, about 24 volt and "bridges" -- update for today

johnacord
 

If you are running 80A, a 100A shunt is fine.  If you run a bit more than 100A it will just heat a little and that's OK for short periods.

I like to keep a shunt and meter around for testing and setting things up.  A meter made for panel mount is generally not so practical, generally needs voltage too, so I just use a shunt and my digital voltmeter.  The photo attached is a 50A 50mv shunt:  each mv read across the shunt is an amp.  I just wire it into whatever circuit I want to measure.

I don't know why 75mv shunts seem prevalent.  ?? Makes the reading an odd factor of amps, ie 75mv = 100A.  So how many amps is 32mv.........??

Remember, a shunt is just a precision resistor.  If you want to measure small currents just go buy a 1% resistor of the appropriate value from the electronic supply house and use the same way as in the photo.

John A


Re: Gauge Number from eBay ---- Wiring question, about 24 volt and "bridges" -- update for today

 

Here's a quick sketch of where to hook up an ammeter shunt so it measures all the current coming in or going out of Cal's current setup, two battery banks, running one at a time. (see attachment)

On 8/31/2020 4:15 PM, I wrote:
Nice USB charger, worthless ammeter. <sigh> ALL the current flowing in and out of the batteries has to go through the ammeter, or it's shunt, to give any meaningful information. Cal's two 80 lb. thrust motors should draw in the neighborhood of 80 amps at full load. That little ammeter could go up in a puff of smoke if abused with that much current. <g>
--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
The security of the Kingdom is increased by every man being more or less a sailor. (Capt. Marryat)
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Re: Gauge Number from eBay ---- Wiring question, about 24 volt and "bridges" -- update for today

 

I talked to Cal a little while ago. He disconnected a possibly faulty cigar lighter socket and the 24-12 volt converter cooled right off. It's a good idea to have switch for the converter anyway.

On 8/31/2020 7:50 AM, Electri-Cal wrote:
...
I did just find that my inside boat long term battery charger also as a side effect made the instruments, and 12 volt converter for that quite warm, huh !!  I disconnected that and will check it today, maybe put a switch right close to it.  Looks like I need to isolate the charge current from going there, and find out why it would.  Even with all accessories shut off, that makes me wonder if there is an accidental drain going on that I don't know about.  Will look at that today, while I'm doing more boat stuff.
...
--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
I want people to talk to one another no matter what their difference of opinion might be. (Studs Terkel)
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Re: Gauge Number from eBay ---- Wiring question, about 24 volt and "bridges" -- update for today

 

There are some inexpensive battery monitors on Amazon. They're bound to be better than the little bitty one Cal just got. here's one:

https://smile.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B01JOUZELG/themotherofal-20

The shunt isn't rated very much more than the maximum draw of Cal's motors, so a more robust one of the same mV rating might be needed:

https://smile.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B07MNVZN7Z/themotherofal-20

Another possibility is to use a gauge that uses a Hall effect transformer to sense the current:

https://smile.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B073W6453F/themotherofal-20

I'm not endorsing any of these products. Just showing some of what a quick look-see on Amazon turned up...

--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
Missionaries, my Dear! Don't you realize that missionaries are the divinely provided food for destitute cannibals? Whenever they are on the brink of starvation, Heaven in its infinite mercy sends them a nice plump missionary. (Oscar Wilde)


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Re: Mini 12 meter Boomer parts for 4 boats

Richard Green
 

It was a fun trip.  Two of us, 29 1/2 days to Astoria.  Sailing out and around the north pacific high we clocked about 3800 miles.  One day of gale winds but going our way, so to sing.  Stays’l only for the gale, hand steering hour on, hour off. Otherwise we self steered with surgical tubing to the tiller countering the stays’l sheet.  
 I cooked due to my food allergies.  Worked out great, didn’t have to do the dishes.  Heh.  That all was forty years ago right now.  1980.

Rich

On Aug 31, 2020, at 4:08 PM, Jove Lachman-Curl <jovelc87@...> wrote:

I bet that was quite an experience Rich, I'm jealous!
-Jove

On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 4:07 PM Richard Green <chaos5@...> wrote:
I sailed a FC version of Suhaili named Suhail, cutter rigged,  from Honolulu to Astoria in1980.  Fun trip, a bit bouncy.

Rich

On Aug 31, 2020, at 3:51 PM, Jove Lachman-Curl <jovelc87@...> wrote:

John,
As the fern ridge sailing season tapers off, I'm finding myself more and more interested in RC boats again.
Where can I catch people sailing RC boats around here?
How did the Boomer project go for everyone last year?
Are there any boomer hulls or other RC sailing equipment available?

Here is a nice picture of an RC model of Suhaili, Robin Knox-johston's 32'er. made by some French RC group.
At this point, I'd really like to try sailing and RC boat to just see if I like it before invest much more time or effort into the idea, So if anyone has a boat, knows a group, or etc. Let me know.
<image.png>
best,
-Jove

On Sun, Feb 24, 2019 at 4:50 PM Electri-Cal <calboats@...> wrote:
John, Dan, Andy and I have enough of the needed wires  coming in as a donation, to convert some servos, battery pack snaps, and enough RX battery cases to fit all 4 boats coming in soon.  I also have the keel to deck sealing tubes to be watertight.  Maybe more stuff will be added, but that is a complete list, until I actually get the work started.  I can order a bunch for all direct from source, so what I have is free, to those who don't mind waiting till it all comes in.  You guys can let me know if you want any of this, before it comes in.  John is covered, I will have the right stuff.  How about Dan, and  Andy,  are you interested or wish do do it yourself, no problem if you do??   A slight mod. needed to switch wires for fixing on the servos, and I ordered parts for that, or I might do those here as needed. So, let me know so I can start a "reserved boater packages" thing as goodies arrive, the rest I got, will restore a couple planes I have ready to convert.

Later,  Away we go , to the lonely sea and sky ,etc. ---   Cal                     RE, --  by John Masefield (Not me)  What a GREAT poem, tears, tears, -- etc.







Re: Gauge Number from eBay ---- Wiring question, about 24 volt and "bridges" -- update for today

 

Nice USB charger, worthless ammeter. <sigh> ALL the current flowing in and out of the batteries has to go through the ammeter, or it's shunt, to give any meaningful information. Cal's two 80 lb. thrust motors should draw in the neighborhood of 80 amps at full load. That little ammeter could go up in a puff of smoke if abused with that much current. <g>

A shorter link to the gauge:

https://preview.tinyurl.com/yxhon727

On 8/31/2020 8:18 AM, Jove wrote:
Here is the URL for the gurage, for anyone else looking.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-USB-Charger-LED-Digital-Display-Voltage-Amp-Meter-Voltmeter-Round-Car-Gauge/363000785546?hash=item5484886a8a:g:ipQAAOSwzEdeSFyE Cal,
to me it looks like it's designed that full amps would run through
that, but it is limited to 10A.
I bet there is a low ohm resistor in there calibrated with a voltage
gauge to display as current.
Not sure what your peak running amps is. You could bypass it with a
switch for sure, then just switch the ammeter in when you want to
check. That would prevent it having to tolerate all the current and
heat.
Heat is a function of amps in a device like this, so it's limit is
going to be heat dissipation and overheating, so if you only
switch it in when needed, it will survive a lot more. Perhaps it
will be willing to read higher amps, but if you put 20 amps through
it I bet it will blow after a few mins. It's all about cooling and
time. If the resistor is inside the plastic enclosure it will not
get much cooling, you could cut the back open if you wanted to cool
it more. even add a heat sink to that resistor.
If you're using up 4 of those full batteries in 8 hrs, that would be
one per 2hrs, ~500Wh/ hr. at 24v. =20 Amps, does that sound right?
--
John <jkohnen@boat-links.com>
I have noticed that people who are late are often so much jollier than the people who have to wait for them. (Edward Verrall Lucas)
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Re: Mini 12 meter Boomer parts for 4 boats

Jove Lachman-Curl
 

I bet that was quite an experience Rich, I'm jealous!
-Jove

On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 4:07 PM Richard Green <chaos5@...> wrote:
I sailed a FC version of Suhaili named Suhail, cutter rigged,  from Honolulu to Astoria in1980.  Fun trip, a bit bouncy.

Rich

On Aug 31, 2020, at 3:51 PM, Jove Lachman-Curl <jovelc87@...> wrote:

John,
As the fern ridge sailing season tapers off, I'm finding myself more and more interested in RC boats again.
Where can I catch people sailing RC boats around here?
How did the Boomer project go for everyone last year?
Are there any boomer hulls or other RC sailing equipment available?

Here is a nice picture of an RC model of Suhaili, Robin Knox-johston's 32'er. made by some French RC group.
At this point, I'd really like to try sailing and RC boat to just see if I like it before invest much more time or effort into the idea, So if anyone has a boat, knows a group, or etc. Let me know.
<image.png>
best,
-Jove

On Sun, Feb 24, 2019 at 4:50 PM Electri-Cal <calboats@...> wrote:
John, Dan, Andy and I have enough of the needed wires  coming in as a donation, to convert some servos, battery pack snaps, and enough RX battery cases to fit all 4 boats coming in soon.  I also have the keel to deck sealing tubes to be watertight.  Maybe more stuff will be added, but that is a complete list, until I actually get the work started.  I can order a bunch for all direct from source, so what I have is free, to those who don't mind waiting till it all comes in.  You guys can let me know if you want any of this, before it comes in.  John is covered, I will have the right stuff.  How about Dan, and  Andy,  are you interested or wish do do it yourself, no problem if you do??   A slight mod. needed to switch wires for fixing on the servos, and I ordered parts for that, or I might do those here as needed. So, let me know so I can start a "reserved boater packages" thing as goodies arrive, the rest I got, will restore a couple planes I have ready to convert.

Later,  Away we go , to the lonely sea and sky ,etc. ---   Cal                     RE, --  by John Masefield (Not me)  What a GREAT poem, tears, tears, -- etc.



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