Date   

Re: Flailing for a shallow alarm system

Myles Twete
 

Maybe it’s time for a prop guard…?

In 23+ years now with the Reach Of Tide, I’ve not damaged a prop even once after installing a prop guard---first one installed about 16 years ago.  I did finally destroy the prop guard itself dragging on the bottom this past December and had to replace it.  The new red 14” Prop Guard looks great with a new jet black paint job on the outboard.

 

Oh, don’t forget to unlock the lower unit so if you do hit something, it can ride over the object.

 

When I installed my first 14” prop guard, I needed to extend the outboard skeg.  Being cheap, I made an extension out of aluminum and JB Welded it to the bottom of the outboard.  It held thru a lot of log- and bottom-interference for maybe 14 years before finally letting go at the bottom of Cat’pillar island in December as I dragged the bottom.  It was a nice loud dramatic event until everything got quiet!  J

 

-MylesT

From: oregoncoots@groups.io [mailto:oregoncoots@groups.io] On Behalf Of Electri-Cal
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 1:30 PM
To: oregoncoots@groups.io
Subject: Re: [oregoncoots] Flailing for a shallow alarm system

 

Yep, Rich!!  Being the guy who has ruined several props, torn off a lower unit, hung on logs at Toledo, I just gotta know whats DOWN there.  Stumps, logs, and rock piles where the big ones lurk all seem to gang up on me.  With the low water we now live with, I have seen the stumps in many lakes..  I see the bent props in every lakeside resort, and with two electric pods hanging down there, I'm not taking chances.   This from the guy who got a centerboard hung in logs at sundown at Lemolo lake.  If not for a good boat hook and luck, i'd be there yet.  Boy bscouts motto is the guide on any water, so I will have two units to save the day.

See you later, and thanks for the note,  --- cal


Re: Flailing for a shallow alarm system

Electri-Cal
 

Yep, Rich!!  Being the guy who has ruined several props, torn off a lower unit, hung on logs at Toledo, I just gotta know whats DOWN there.  Stumps, logs, and rock piles where the big ones lurk all seem to gang up on me.  With the low water we now live with, I have seen the stumps in many lakes..  I see the bent props in every lakeside resort, and with two electric pods hanging down there, I'm not taking chances.   This from the guy who got a centerboard hung in logs at sundown at Lemolo lake.  If not for a good boat hook and luck, i'd be there yet.  Boy bscouts motto is the guide on any water, so I will have two units to save the day.

See you later, and thanks for the note,  --- cal


Re: Flailing for a shallow alarm system

Richard Green
 

Of course, you might ask yourself is close or guesstimate is good enough.  If it is, maybe you didn't need a sounder at all.  Just me, but I want it to be accurate and thorough as can be.

Rich

On May 20, 2020, at 6:02 AM, Electri-Cal <calboats@...> wrote:

I contacted the Hawkeye folks for info on the inside hull mounting.  Yes, it works, but reduces the depth to some degree and you have to figure it out yourself.  The bottom is less defined, Muddy bottoms might drop out, sometimes obstructions do not show up as clearly as needed before contact, fish are more problematical, etc.  Depends on the type of unit, epoxy type and thickness, and the transducer shape, -- puck, or skimmer types.   Bottom line on inside install -- is how much reduction in performance can you deal with??  I'm not fond of glassed over holes either, ones the size of a pickup ( say 3 inches outside tube ) are not my idea of great. 

 I chatted with a few folks on this, and what I am doing is in  "maybe, just try it first !!"  mode.  So, wait till I get done with the project for the moment, do some water testing and hopefully a good installation for real, and then I will have some demo stuff for intended use.  I have been known to roar off in pursuit of something that had side effects that killed the project, I THINK I can solve my dilemma , no guarantees for now.

Just thinking, maybe too mych !!  ----  Porky Pig       Thea,thea,thea, that's all folks !!            ( Still not admitting this !!  )  


Difficult decision

Electri-Cal
 

Finally got more barn wood gone, saved enough for small projects I might have, but hard to do.  Just made a small bracket from some, nice old growth, I can't even count the growth rings over 100 to the inch, unbelievable perfect grain 12 foot long and straight under the rough black outer coating.  I was surprised that  it cut like butter, dried for 50 years estimated total, always stored high and dry in my barn.  The hard part was knowing it will be used for garden borders in a guys backyard tomato bed.  Strange stuff, i've never seen that fine a grain in so light a wood, maybe like antique cedar, yellow OG hemlock, but not sure.  I might bring a sample sometime, peeled down for show and figure out what it was..

I sure tried to get coots to take it, but the black rough sawn outer coating turned lookers off, me too -- until I cut into a random couple pieces yesterday, that I held on to for a mast or other project.  Some of the heavier species might have been fabulous timbers, probably wouldn't bend well though.  Now to get rid of a couple 8 by 12 pieces of painted straight grain from an old church beam or two.  Probably cut those into firewood, or make them into new steps to replace some steps that finally rotted out at some point, and save me some bucks.

Whoops !!  Almost forgot --  I'm just looking at a new product, another one EH!!     I'm ordering it in for testing today.  It  stops water adhesion to whatever it is applied to, by a lot !!  First  trial will be my great sweeps, one at a time to check it out..  If that works maybe on the boat bottom to reduce friction.  After testing, maybe that could add boat speed without any penalty.  No, I will do an article on this yet !!    If, and When, it Works!!    With the boat on a trailer it may take some doing, lifting and blocking to get clear -- so the oar testing comes first..  If I row in a circle, or with extra drag on one side when trading oars, THEN i'm good to share this out..  

Just stuff, making goPro camera mounts, sound system install, wiring lights into Surprise,  more li'l stuff for the summer,  ----  later,   Cal 




Re: Oar Creep?

David Luckhardt
 

I've been using the Douglas locks with my 8.5' spoons and like them, but of course you can't feather oars or row in the purist's style.  ;-)

Not liking the plastic sleeves / leathers (both noisy and ugly) I built up  my own with layers of leather and PL Premium which work well.  And you can remove the oars from the Douglas locks by running the oar inboard until the thin part where loom meets blade.

That said, if having the locks attached to the oars is OK for your style of boating, the Gaco locks are probably a better choice.

P2012203.JPG

--

David "Thorne" Luckhardt

cell 510.604.8203


Re: Flailing for a shallow alarm system

Electri-Cal
 

I contacted the Hawkeye folks for info on the inside hull mounting.  Yes, it works, but reduces the depth to some degree and you have to figure it out yourself.  The bottom is less defined, Muddy bottoms might drop out, sometimes obstructions do not show up as clearly as needed before contact, fish are more problematical, etc.  Depends on the type of unit, epoxy type and thickness, and the transducer shape, -- puck, or skimmer types.   Bottom line on inside install -- is how much reduction in performance can you deal with??  I'm not fond of glassed over holes either, ones the size of a pickup ( say 3 inches outside tube ) are not my idea of great. 

 I chatted with a few folks on this, and what I am doing is in  "maybe, just try it first !!"  mode.  So, wait till I get done with the project for the moment, do some water testing and hopefully a good installation for real, and then I will have some demo stuff for intended use.  I have been known to roar off in pursuit of something that had side effects that killed the project, I THINK I can solve my dilemma , no guarantees for now.

Just thinking, maybe too mych !!  ----  Porky Pig       Thea,thea,thea, that's all folks !!            ( Still not admitting this !!  )  


Re: Oar Creep?

 

Not terribly expensive -- and be sure to watch the video of the scientific comparison test. ;o)

https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/gaco-b.htm

On 5/18/2020 8:39 PM, Bob Miller wrote:
Duckworks sells Gaco.
--
John <@Jkohnen>
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Re: Oar Creep?

Bob Miller
 

Duckworks sells Gaco.

Bob

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 6:50 PM John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:
I found the Bolger el cheapo oarlocks in the file section of the group
web page. Put there by Pat Patteson years ago. I sure miss him. <sigh> I
enlarged the drawing. See attachment.

With a little simple lathe work a sleeve bearing could be fitted on the
horn that'd probably completely eliminate oar walking and make rowing
even easier. See Gaco oarlocks:

http://gacooarlocks.com/

--
John <jkohnen@...>
The means of defence against foreign danger have been always the
instruments of tyranny at home. (James Madison)



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Re: Oar Creep?

 

I found the Bolger el cheapo oarlocks in the file section of the group web page. Put there by Pat Patteson years ago. I sure miss him. <sigh> I enlarged the drawing. See attachment.

With a little simple lathe work a sleeve bearing could be fitted on the horn that'd probably completely eliminate oar walking and make rowing even easier. See Gaco oarlocks:

http://gacooarlocks.com/

--
John <@Jkohnen>
The means of defence against foreign danger have been always the instruments of tyranny at home. (James Madison)



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Re: Oar Creep?

Joe Novello
 

Thanks Cal. So many things to consider....I’m working on several different ideas.  I’m going to try crossing my legs - that sounds interesting. I’ll also be trying several other things as well. So much fun!

Joe



On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 5:38 PM Electri-Cal <calboats@...> wrote:
I like my oars to overlap by 6 in., especially in narrow boats.  But then I do row nor'east coast style.  Try crossing your legs opposite the oar arms crossing way, that evens the power level, then a foot board at full leg length.  On each stroke my butt raises off the seat by 3 in., then settles at strokes end.  If i don't get that lift, the blades are too small, or the length too short.  When correct, I could maintain a comfy gps 3 -4 mph in my earlier 16 ft lapstrake across Fern ridge, on a great sunny morning, about like a 3 hp outboard.  

Row like a dory fisherman 5 miles off Dover, with a catch to deliver, you'll love it.  You'll have to try the latest oars, soon as I can let go the electric fun stuff, bigger boat with locks further aft, no idea on that setup yet.

Best wishes,  Cal



On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 2:15 PM John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:
Making your own "Bolger" oarlocks in the Boathouse foundry sounds like a
fun project! :o)

Duckworks sells bronze oarlocks with the forward horn and pin in line.
They're designed to use D-shaped collars for "automatic" feathering and
preset pitch. Not cheap:

https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/rs-do.htm

https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/dur-martinoli-parent.htm

A review:

https://preview.tinyurl.com/ybxtwexa

or

https://s3.amazonaws.com/duckbbs/hardware/oarlocks/douglas/Ash+Breeze+Article+11-05.pdf


On 5/17/2020 5:04 PM, Toledo Joe wrote:
> ...
> My sockets are slightly out of perpendicular, maybe 12 degrees.  I like
> the idea of the pin in line with the forward horn.  I now have food for
> thought and more directions to play.  Maybe we can forge some of our own
> oarlocks with the design described by Bolger with our new foundry.

--
John <jkohnen@...>
Skepticism, like chastity, should not be relinquished too readily.
(George Santayana)


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Thanks, I will reply to all mail as possible ---  Cal

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Joe Novello


Re: Oar Creep?

Electri-Cal
 

I like my oars to overlap by 6 in., especially in narrow boats.  But then I do row nor'east coast style.  Try crossing your legs opposite the oar arms crossing way, that evens the power level, then a foot board at full leg length.  On each stroke my butt raises off the seat by 3 in., then settles at strokes end.  If i don't get that lift, the blades are too small, or the length too short.  When correct, I could maintain a comfy gps 3 -4 mph in my earlier 16 ft lapstrake across Fern ridge, on a great sunny morning, about like a 3 hp outboard.  

Row like a dory fisherman 5 miles off Dover, with a catch to deliver, you'll love it.  You'll have to try the latest oars, soon as I can let go the electric fun stuff, bigger boat with locks further aft, no idea on that setup yet.

Best wishes,  Cal



On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 2:15 PM John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:
Making your own "Bolger" oarlocks in the Boathouse foundry sounds like a
fun project! :o)

Duckworks sells bronze oarlocks with the forward horn and pin in line.
They're designed to use D-shaped collars for "automatic" feathering and
preset pitch. Not cheap:

https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/rs-do.htm

https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/dur-martinoli-parent.htm

A review:

https://preview.tinyurl.com/ybxtwexa

or

https://s3.amazonaws.com/duckbbs/hardware/oarlocks/douglas/Ash+Breeze+Article+11-05.pdf


On 5/17/2020 5:04 PM, Toledo Joe wrote:
> ...
> My sockets are slightly out of perpendicular, maybe 12 degrees.  I like
> the idea of the pin in line with the forward horn.  I now have food for
> thought and more directions to play.  Maybe we can forge some of our own
> oarlocks with the design described by Bolger with our new foundry.

--
John <jkohnen@...>
Skepticism, like chastity, should not be relinquished too readily.
(George Santayana)


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Thanks, I will reply to all mail as possible ---  Cal


Re: Flailing for a shallow alarm system

Electri-Cal
 

that will be a (wait for it ) Surprise, until I see that it works.  Don't want to give out bad info. on untested stuff.  I am hoping my idea will work, and I could produce a finished product asap.  Thanks for asking, when ready will show and tell.
Yea, Coots ---  Porky Pig


On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 4:33 PM John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:
What depthsounder did you order, Cal? Link?

A through-hull transducer would have been easy enough to replace, if you
bedded it in something less permanent than 5200... When mounting the
transom mount transducer inside the boat, remove _all_ the wood below it
and fill the hole with epoxy. Be careful to avoid bubbles in the goo. I
think I'd just stick the transducer to the top of the epoxy filler with
a glob of thickened epoxy. No messing with liquid filled tubes and such...

On 5/18/2020 11:05 AM, Electri-Cal wrote:
> Mumm, I just now ordered what I HOPE will be the answer to hanging the
> boat up on stuff.  I did order one at $56.00 - so half the price of the
> Norcross unit.
 > ...

--
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There are two theories to arguing with a woman. Neither works. (Will Rogers)


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Thanks, I will reply to all mail as possible ---  Cal


Re: Flailing for a shallow alarm system

 

What depthsounder did you order, Cal? Link?

A through-hull transducer would have been easy enough to replace, if you bedded it in something less permanent than 5200... When mounting the transom mount transducer inside the boat, remove _all_ the wood below it and fill the hole with epoxy. Be careful to avoid bubbles in the goo. I think I'd just stick the transducer to the top of the epoxy filler with a glob of thickened epoxy. No messing with liquid filled tubes and such...

On 5/18/2020 11:05 AM, Electri-Cal wrote:
Mumm, I just now ordered what I HOPE will be the answer to hanging the boat up on stuff.  I did order one at $56.00 - so half the price of the Norcross unit.
...
--
John <@Jkohnen>
There are two theories to arguing with a woman. Neither works. (Will Rogers)
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Re: Oar Creep?

 

Making your own "Bolger" oarlocks in the Boathouse foundry sounds like a fun project! :o)

Duckworks sells bronze oarlocks with the forward horn and pin in line. They're designed to use D-shaped collars for "automatic" feathering and preset pitch. Not cheap:

https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/rs-do.htm

https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/dur-martinoli-parent.htm

A review:

https://preview.tinyurl.com/ybxtwexa

or

https://s3.amazonaws.com/duckbbs/hardware/oarlocks/douglas/Ash+Breeze+Article+11-05.pdf

On 5/17/2020 5:04 PM, Toledo Joe wrote:
...
My sockets are slightly out of perpendicular, maybe 12 degrees.  I like the idea of the pin in line with the forward horn.  I now have food for thought and more directions to play.  Maybe we can forge some of our own oarlocks with the design described by Bolger with our new foundry.
--
John <@Jkohnen>
Skepticism, like chastity, should not be relinquished too readily. (George Santayana)
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Flailing for a shallow alarm system

Electri-Cal
 

Mumm, I just now ordered what I HOPE will be the answer to hanging the boat up on stuff.  I did order one at $56.00 - so half the price of the Norcross unit.  First, no sounding alarm, figuring if i'm in problem water I need to be aware at all times.  I don't need a Fish finder, got my original and it works.  So, I now have a waterproof hi def. lighted, and battery powered pipe bore scope.  Dumb, huh !!   I can put this  in a smaller tube,  fixed at an angle up front, imbed in a solid Bolger mini bump attached as needed, or tape fix to the bottom to test first.  That gives me an led lighted plus filmable photo chip setup, in a smaller sensor package, facing forwardish to get a full depth of field, depending on water clarity.  This sensor is way smaller than any fish finder, and easier to seal in for a good view.  Anyway, I will have it in about 2 weeks, and be ready to do the rest of the story.  Having some pix of this lash up will be available soon as I get 'er done. 

Heres Hoping Folks, Keep 'er Tuned in ----  Porky Pig      ( not taking credit till it works, eh !! )


Re: Depth finder info. needed

Electri-Cal
 

In reviewing all the great data, I considered that someday I might like to remove the transducer, for a new model, stops working or ??  Cancelled the first order before shipping  so I'm now looking at you'alls posts again. It NEEDS o be a real depth finder to see logs, rocks, or ??   From Johns references, and u tube stuff it looks like I could just put a short pipe with a cap fixed to the hull bulkhead and partially remove the wood hull inside.  Looks like making it taller than the water level would be a good idea, since the bow is very shallow up to a couple feet back.  Will do some hunting on line and at Jerrys store, will update later.  I do have a Cabellas card too, betcha they have done this before, and I get the discount with the advice.

Be dooin' stuff fast, Summers here, and sunken logs are waiting near the shore ----    Cal


Re: Oar Creep?

Jove Lachman-Curl
 

Yes. Good point John. Those racing oarlocks might be a bit weird with round loom oars. They take a D or a squarish loom that flops from feathered to squared.
I’ve not tried them with round looms. I have a pair if you want any measurements.
-Jove

On May 17, 2020, at 7:15 PM, John Kohnen <@Jkohnen> wrote:

IIRC, racing shell oars don't have round looms. They, or the collars, are shaped so the oar flops into the feathered position on the recovery stroke, and then flops back on the pull stroke. Jove?

On 5/17/2020 6:21 PM, Toledo Joe wrote:
Thanks Jove. Interesting reading and information. Those locks don’t appear to be that expensive either.
--
John <@Jkohnen>
Like all weak men he laid an exaggerated stress on not changing one's mind. (W. Somerset Maugham)


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Re: Oar Creep?

 

IIRC, racing shell oars don't have round looms. They, or the collars, are shaped so the oar flops into the feathered position on the recovery stroke, and then flops back on the pull stroke. Jove?

On 5/17/2020 6:21 PM, Toledo Joe wrote:
Thanks Jove. Interesting reading and information. Those locks don’t appear to be that expensive either.
--
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Like all weak men he laid an exaggerated stress on not changing one's mind. (W. Somerset Maugham)
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Re: Oar Creep?

Joe Novello
 

Thanks Jove. Interesting reading and information. Those locks don’t appear to be that expensive either. 

Joe



On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 5:45 PM Jove Lachman-Curl <jovelc87@...> wrote:
I don’t have much experience with traditional oats, but I’ll offer my thoughts in case they help. My experience is almost all with racing oars.
The front horn is the pin for a strong light design. They are made of a hard smooth plastic, “leathers” are acetal and oarlock is nylon. And there is a “button” which is a collar on the leathers to push outboard against. The pin is 13mm stainless (1/2” and 7/16 common too). But A half inch bolt would do it as long as it was smooth in the loading area.
I’ve always thought good oarlocks could easily be made from wood or plastic with this basic layout. But racing ones are super cheap too. Like $20 or so, since rowers replace them as a wear item.
Typical pitch aft is 3-6 deg and pitch outboard 0-2 deg. I like 4-2.
The concept of mechanical procession might be in play with them walking onboard on you. Just a thought.
-Jove



On May 17, 2020, at 5:04 PM, Joe Novello <joenovello3@...> wrote:

Thanks John, I knew someone would know more about this than I.  I’m using tuna cord tightly wrapped and sealed with six coats of varnish.  

My sockets are slightly out of perpendicular, maybe 12 degrees.  I like the idea of the pin in line with the forward horn.  I now have food for thought and more directions to play.  Maybe we can forge some of our own oarlocks with the design described by Bolger with our new foundry.  

Thanks again,

Joe


On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 4:43 PM John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:
What are you using for "leathers" on the oars? I've noticed that soft
leathering seems more prone to creeping. I haven't tried them, but
supposedly oarlocks with the forward horn in line with the pin eliminate
most oar creep. (I guess I did try them once, on Bob M's Whilly Boat,
but it was a brief outing, so I can't give a good review -- the boat
rowed like a dream, and I don't recall an oar walking problem)  Having
the oarlock sockets perpendicular to the water, not parallel to the
flared sides, also helps. Of course Bolger had something to say about
oarlocks. See attachments. IIRC, he also had a plan for some el cheapo
home fabricated oarlocks with the pin in line with the horn -- one and
the same, in fact, in one of his books...

On 5/17/2020 2:21 PM, Toledo Joe wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> I'm hoping to garner information from your collective knowledge.  I
> built some new oars for my elegant punt recently. Today I tried them out
> and as I was rowing they repeatedly crept up in the oarlocks about six
> inches, then settled there. The trouble is they then overlapped about 4
> inches at the handles and I had to use the cross oars rowing technique.
>
> Do any of you know why that might be happening?  I'm suspecting length
> or balance may be incorrect. The beam of the boat is 42 inches, the oars
> are 6 1/2'.
>
> Thanks for any help you can provide.

--
John <jkohnen@...>
You can only protect your liberties in this world by protecting the
other man's freedom. (Clarence Darrow)



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Re: Oar Creep?

Jove Lachman-Curl
 

I don’t have much experience with traditional oats, but I’ll offer my thoughts in case they help. My experience is almost all with racing oars.
The front horn is the pin for a strong light design. They are made of a hard smooth plastic, “leathers” are acetal and oarlock is nylon. And there is a “button” which is a collar on the leathers to push outboard against. The pin is 13mm stainless (1/2” and 7/16 common too). But A half inch bolt would do it as long as it was smooth in the loading area.
I’ve always thought good oarlocks could easily be made from wood or plastic with this basic layout. But racing ones are super cheap too. Like $20 or so, since rowers replace them as a wear item.
Typical pitch aft is 3-6 deg and pitch outboard 0-2 deg. I like 4-2.
The concept of mechanical procession might be in play with them walking onboard on you. Just a thought.
-Jove


On May 17, 2020, at 5:04 PM, Joe Novello <joenovello3@...> wrote:

Thanks John, I knew someone would know more about this than I.  I’m using tuna cord tightly wrapped and sealed with six coats of varnish.  

My sockets are slightly out of perpendicular, maybe 12 degrees.  I like the idea of the pin in line with the forward horn.  I now have food for thought and more directions to play.  Maybe we can forge some of our own oarlocks with the design described by Bolger with our new foundry.  

Thanks again,

Joe


On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 4:43 PM John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:
What are you using for "leathers" on the oars? I've noticed that soft
leathering seems more prone to creeping. I haven't tried them, but
supposedly oarlocks with the forward horn in line with the pin eliminate
most oar creep. (I guess I did try them once, on Bob M's Whilly Boat,
but it was a brief outing, so I can't give a good review -- the boat
rowed like a dream, and I don't recall an oar walking problem)  Having
the oarlock sockets perpendicular to the water, not parallel to the
flared sides, also helps. Of course Bolger had something to say about
oarlocks. See attachments. IIRC, he also had a plan for some el cheapo
home fabricated oarlocks with the pin in line with the horn -- one and
the same, in fact, in one of his books...

On 5/17/2020 2:21 PM, Toledo Joe wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> I'm hoping to garner information from your collective knowledge.  I
> built some new oars for my elegant punt recently. Today I tried them out
> and as I was rowing they repeatedly crept up in the oarlocks about six
> inches, then settled there. The trouble is they then overlapped about 4
> inches at the handles and I had to use the cross oars rowing technique.
>
> Do any of you know why that might be happening?  I'm suspecting length
> or balance may be incorrect. The beam of the boat is 42 inches, the oars
> are 6 1/2'.
>
> Thanks for any help you can provide.

--
John <jkohnen@...>
You can only protect your liberties in this world by protecting the
other man's freedom. (Clarence Darrow)



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