Date   

Monday Boating? (was: Handsome Tugboat/Fireboat)

 

Shorpy has a lot of neat old photos, scanned from glass plate negatives and offered in large, high resolution images.

I can meet you at Fern Ridge tomorrow for a boat test, Cal. Pearl is at Richardson Park. Anybody want to make a lunch messabout out of it?

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1XHKRPdGWSuHdZVtvGGEEyOdhTRI&usp=sharing

On 5/12/2018 6:12 AM, Electri-Cal wrote:
Got that right, John !!  Interesting site too, saved that for later perusal.
maybe I’ll do a boat wetting, with the new additions, next week.  Can’t do it Thurs.  cause it has the lower drives, at the freeway lakes. Maybe Monday in fact, as I have the whole day free.  Next weekend we will be in Bend, and I would like a few more pix before that visitation.
--
John (jkohnen@...)
Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea. (Robert A. Heinlein)


Re: Fern Ridge Spring Messabout Next Weekend, May 18-20

Dan
 

Ahoy.  Dan Rogers here.

 

I’m going to give FR a go this next week.  I brought the wrong type boat last year, and will be coming with a blowboat this time.  Perhaps, more a fiberglass pup tent that floats, referring to the accommodation.  At any event, I’ll likely go to my son’s in Philomath on Wednesday night, and on to FR Thursday.  John:  I left a message with your electronic gate keeper.  Perhaps, your people could call my people(?)

 

Dan

509-447-2197


Re: Handsome Tugboat/Fireboat

Electri-Cal
 

Got that right, John !!  Interesting site too, saved that for later perusal.  

 

maybe I’ll do a boat wetting, with the new additions, next week.  Can’t do it Thurs.  cause it has the lower drives, at the freeway lakes.  Maybe Monday in fact, as I have the whole day free.  Next weekend we will be in Bend, and I would like a few more pix before that visitation.

 

Later,  Cal

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: John Kohnen
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2018 8:01 PM
To: Oregon Coots
Subject: [oregoncoots] Handsome Tugboat/Fireboat

 

To my eye this is a particularly handsome vessel, and an interesting

harbor scene. Click on the image for a large view:

 

https://preview.tinyurl.com/yae34ke2

 

or

 

http://www.shorpy.com/node/23358?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+shorpy+%28Shorpy+-+The+100-Year-Old+Photo+Blog%29

 

Bill Lafferty over on the Maritime History mailing list did some

digging. "It was built by Brooks at East Boston in 1895. 97.9 x 27 x

10.4;  178 gt, 121 nt;  double compound steam engine, 18-36 x 24,

750-ihp.  In 1919 the Boston fire department named its boats in honor of

former Boston firemen lost in the Great War, and it became /Angus J.

McDonald/, who died serving in the Army in 1918.  In 1931 it was

assigned the Engine Number 31 and was withdrawn from service in 1947."

 

http://marmuseum.ca/index.php/research/marhst-l-research-resources

 

Who doesn't love tugboats? :o)

 

--

John (jkohnen@...)

Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men

should look on and do nothing. (John Stuart Mill)

 

 

 

 


Fern Ridge Spring Messabout Next Weekend, May 18-20

 

The Fern Ridge Spring Messabout is coming up next weeks. The lake is full and I'm working on the Weatherman to get him to provide good weather. <g>

http://www.coots.org/mb/FernRidge/

Call Sarah at the Richardson Park office for info on renting a slip or reserving a campsite:

541-935-2005
rpkoffice1@...

--
John (jkohnen@...)
I just think it's rather odd that a nation that prides itself on its virility should feel compelled to strap on forty pounds of protective gear just in order to play rugby. (Rupert Giles on American football)


Handsome Tugboat/Fireboat

 

To my eye this is a particularly handsome vessel, and an interesting harbor scene. Click on the image for a large view:

https://preview.tinyurl.com/yae34ke2

or

http://www.shorpy.com/node/23358?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+shorpy+%28Shorpy+-+The+100-Year-Old+Photo+Blog%29

Bill Lafferty over on the Maritime History mailing list did some digging. "It was built by Brooks at East Boston in 1895. 97.9 x 27 x 10.4; 178 gt, 121 nt; double compound steam engine, 18-36 x 24, 750-ihp. In 1919 the Boston fire department named its boats in honor of former Boston firemen lost in the Great War, and it became /Angus J. McDonald/, who died serving in the Army in 1918. In 1931 it was assigned the Engine Number 31 and was withdrawn from service in 1947."

http://marmuseum.ca/index.php/research/marhst-l-research-resources

Who doesn't love tugboats? :o)

--
John (jkohnen@...)
Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing. (John Stuart Mill)


Re: Another hour on the Klickitat

Electri-Cal
 

That's a good idea, and a good looking tool John.  Mine is decades older and takes a lot more of a blow to work.  That can either twist off a head, which takes hollow shank drills to get out (or epoxy over, eh, eh ! ) or can drive the whole shebang deep into soft wood, which doesn't help the rebuild process.  Mechanics often use the smaller reverse "outer" sets, but our screws are mostly too small.  Might be the best idea is to get the specialty hollow core outer set for those wood screws that break -- then matching dowels to fit. Woodworking shops have these in sets, or on line.

Another tool for small areas is my old 90 deg. add on tool with a chuck - a bit clumsy, and will tear your hand off with any larger hole saw.  However, a screw shank remover set will remove shanks, for a sealing plug -- and in way tighter spaces.  I'm looking to get a battery type 90 deg. drill for even tighter spaces, I have the batteries from my Xmas - Milwaukee's heated jacket, so the bare tool is a great addition for kayak work, among a lot of other stuff.  H Freight also has a good looking 90 deg. unit.

One way that is more expensive, of course, is to get a drill/driver that has the impact action also built in,  I think they are more controllable than an impact driver.  Many adjustable blows might work better than a frustrated guy with a big hammer.  UH !!  Been there, and done that myself, maybe time to visit Lowe's again, I'm liking their selection and prices, thanks to Myles Swift's introduction to the west 11 th store.  Been buying more stuff there lately than I thought. 

Just felt like typing I guess, geeeze !!  too long a reply, ----  Cal

  


Re: Another hour on the Klickitat

 

It looks like Klickitat used good quality (and the right grade) stainless screws. The use of Phillip's head screws everywhere is a recent phenomenon, driven (ahem) by the proliferation of electric screwdrivers. As long as screws were being put in by hand at boat factories, and elsewhere, there wasn't much incentive to change to the slightly more expensive to make Phillip's screws. What did the boat makers care about the people trying to fix their boats decades later? <shrug>

If you run across a stubborn screw, of whatever sort, stop messing with it before you destroy the slot, or depression of whatever brand, and reach for your impact driver (this is just an example that popped up in a quicky search):

http://smile.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000NPPATS/themotherofal-20

The blow of a hammer pushes the bit into the slot, or whatever, as it turns. Not a cure all, but it's saved my bacon many times.

On 5/10/2018 4:55 PM, Cal wrote:
...
Slotted screws suck, so do steel cheapo screws.
...
http://andrewlinn.com/2018/180509_klickitat/index.htm
--
John (jkohnen@...)
Sin lies only in hurting others unnecessarily. All other "sins" are invented nonsense. (Robert A. Heinlein)


Re: Another hour on the Klickitat

Electri-Cal
 

Peace brother, this is boating and does not pay by the hour or job. Hobby, recreation, fun !!  That’s why I take so long to build, when it gets to be a job I plan to retire again, when boats gets in the way of a happy, balanced  life maybe it’s time to rethink the plan.

 

Slotted screws suck, so do steel cheapo screws.  All it takes is time for galv. to rust away and destroy the slot shape, or cause the shank to stick in the wood, etc.   That’s why the boat gods made stainless Phillips head.  Using inferior screws, like using el cheapo plywood is a sin, unless for training newbys, a burnable disposable trial shape, or starting puddle duck builders.  Just my opinion though, I care about building any boat well.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Andrew Linn
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 9:01 AM
To: Coots; Duckworks Forum
Subject: [oregoncoots] Another hour on the Klickitat

 

I took what remained of the wood off the transoms. Here's a dull and

boring write-up about it. I got a little angry in there, and I apologize

for that. The metric system holds such promise, it's so easy. I get

disappointed every time I run into it. Also I am not a fan of slotted

screws and I am beginning to understand why the Klickitat boat company

went out of business.

http://andrewlinn.com/2018/180509_klickitat/index.htm

 

 

 

 


Another hour on the Klickitat

Andrew Linn
 

I took what remained of the wood off the transoms. Here's a dull and boring write-up about it. I got a little angry in there, and I apologize for that. The metric system holds such promise, it's so easy. I get disappointed every time I run into it. Also I am not a fan of slotted screws and I am beginning to understand why the Klickitat boat company went out of business.
http://andrewlinn.com/2018/180509_klickitat/index.htm


Re: Summer Solstice Messabout

Julius Dalzell
 

Hi Dale,

I would like to add our welcome from Cathlamet. Looking forward to your participation.

Also we are interested in your proposed cruise on the Lower Columbia. As you may know, Allen Bennett and I have established a new Chapter of TSCA, the “Lower Columbia River” Chapter. As a 2018 event, we are in the formative stages of organizing a possible cruise to Astoria in August.

Our annual Cathlamet Wooden & Classic Boat Show is being held August 4 & 5 here at our Elochoman Marina. The following weekend, we have committed to presenting a static display of boats at the Columbia River Maritime Museum on August 11 in conjunction with the annual Astoria Regatta. The notion is a Chapter cruise for those interested from Cathlamet to Astoria rather than trailering.

The stuff of interesting chats!

Julius  

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Dale Simonson
Sent: Monday, May 7, 2018 3:11 PM
To: oregoncoots@groups.io
Subject: Re: [oregoncoots] Summer Solstice Messabout

 

I plan on attending the event, trailering my Scamp LUNA all the way from Vancouver, BC... and spending the following week cruising the lower Columbia to Astoria and back. Looking forward to meeting you all in Cathlamet!

 


Re: Klicatat Canoe

Electri-Cal
 

I would be a bit cautious about removing thwarts on that.  In many cases they define the shape and strength of basic hull integrity.  Not seeing any flotation areas, I wold consider making the ends into either sealed float areas, or creating storage space for gear.  Perhaps some combo deal, that helps the safety factor.  If longer sailing or rowing trips look good a center storage area, using say 3 mm marine ply makes a light but firm material, and you need some bracing if you plan a sail rig for it, leaboard fastening, rudder spaces, and running rigging.

 

Later,  Cal

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: John Kohnen
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 1:11 AM
To: oregoncoots@groups.io
Subject: Re: [oregoncoots] Klicatat Canoe

 

An old beatup canoe like that isn't worth bothering about keeping

original. Do what you gotta do to make it work for you.

 

http://www.andrewlinn.com/2018/180508_klickitat/index.htm

 

I think old beatup canoes like that are perfect for conversion to

sailing canoes, because you won't feel bad about drilling holes in them

or gluing on odd bits and bobs. Your Kickitat looks like it's got a

nice, wide flat bottom -- just right for a sailing canoe. <g>

 

We figured you couldn't stay away from boats forever. ;o)

 

On 5/8/2018 9:12 AM, Andrew wrote:

> I've come into possession of a Klicatat Canoe - fairly small at around

> 15', heavily built of fiberglass. It has great big spade ends on it

> (like the Squaw canoe I used to own) but worst of all, it is laid out

> for tandem paddling ONLY. It has 2 thwarts, neither of which is placed

> so one person can portage the canoe. And a thwart makes it pretty much

> impossible for one person to paddle it solo.

>

> So here's the problem: It's an old, beat up canoe that I got for free.

> Because it is set up for tandem paddling, it is nearly useless to me

> (nobody I know likes canoeing as much as I do - if I wait for a partner,

> I'll never go anywhere.)

>

> I can easily put a thwart in the middle and remove the other two and

> BOOM! It is now either a tandem or solo canoe. Just like that - a simple

> 33" stick and a few screws. BUT, if I do that, I change the essential

> form and function of the original design.

> ...

 

--

John (jkohnen@...)

Patience! Patience! Patience is the invention of dullards and sluggards.

In a well-regulated world there should be no need of such a thing as

patience. (Grace King)

 

 

 

 


Re: Summer Solstice Messabout

 

Welcome aboard, Dale! I look forward to meeting you and Luna next month in Cathlamet.

http://www.coots.org/mb/Solstice/

On 5/7/2018 1:39 PM, Dale S wrote:
I plan on attending the event, trailering my Scamp LUNA all the way from Vancouver, BC... and spending the following week cruising the lower Columbia to Astoria and back. Looking forward to meeting you all in Cathlamet!
--
John (jkohnen@...)
If you lose the power to laugh, you lose the power to think. (Clarence Darrow)


Re: Klicatat Canoe

 

An old beatup canoe like that isn't worth bothering about keeping original. Do what you gotta do to make it work for you.

http://www.andrewlinn.com/2018/180508_klickitat/index.htm

I think old beatup canoes like that are perfect for conversion to sailing canoes, because you won't feel bad about drilling holes in them or gluing on odd bits and bobs. Your Kickitat looks like it's got a nice, wide flat bottom -- just right for a sailing canoe. <g>

We figured you couldn't stay away from boats forever. ;o)

On 5/8/2018 9:12 AM, Andrew wrote:
I've come into possession of a Klicatat Canoe - fairly small at around 15', heavily built of fiberglass. It has great big spade ends on it (like the Squaw canoe I used to own) but worst of all, it is laid out for tandem paddling ONLY. It has 2 thwarts, neither of which is placed so one person can portage the canoe. And a thwart makes it pretty much impossible for one person to paddle it solo.
So here's the problem: It's an old, beat up canoe that I got for free. Because it is set up for tandem paddling, it is nearly useless to me (nobody I know likes canoeing as much as I do - if I wait for a partner, I'll never go anywhere.)
I can easily put a thwart in the middle and remove the other two and BOOM! It is now either a tandem or solo canoe. Just like that - a simple 33" stick and a few screws. BUT, if I do that, I change the essential form and function of the original design.
...
--
John (jkohnen@...)
Patience! Patience! Patience is the invention of dullards and sluggards. In a well-regulated world there should be no need of such a thing as patience. (Grace King)


Re: Even more idiots on the water

Electri-Cal
 

Have no fear, we all know the Lawyers on both sides are having a great time, and are somewhere in this. Former district attorney, hah again !!   Someplace on the instructions, or set up paperwork is -- or should be  -- the advice to remove (or not) that foam in the bows, or under the seat in small rowboats.  Saying that, most sales persons want that sale bad enough that they avoid asking about experience.  “Easy to do”, everybodys getting these for summer fun, huh.  

 

The first launch in running stream water ??  Not so bright there either, even with experienced kayakers, does it sound sane to launch a new unfamiliar boat in running water.  I would liken it to me riding my scooter for the first time in the rain on an unfamiliar back road.  At least I kept that similarity idea in daylight !!

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: John Kohnen
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 2:58 PM
To: oregoncoots@groups.io
Subject: Re: [oregoncoots] Even more idiots on the water

 

Be careful who you're selling stuff to. ;o)

 

"Orrio, a former Marion County deputy district attorney, and McCallum

decided to try the kayaks for the first time and launched into the

Santiam River near Mehama."

 

The articles make it sound like the foam was structural as well as

flotation, or that's what the plaintiffs are claiming. I think there

were a bunch of idiots involved, on both sides. <sigh>

 

On 5/9/2018 8:53 AM, Andrew wrote:

> ...

> I am biased against the injured parties because the Old Town Trip 10 is

> a fishing/flat water kayak. The Santiam is not considered flat water -

> in fact, the man was swept into "class II rapids" (if I recall, class II

> isn't much, but it's not flat, either.)

>

> Yeah, so I don't know. Did the employees damage the kayaks removing the

> foam? Was the foam for shipping or flotation? Of less importance is the

> question "Were the kayaks loaded appropriately for the conditions? Were

> they the correct kayaks for the conditions?"

>

> My opinion - and I ain't no lawyer - is if the employees damaged the

> kayaks - it's the fault of Dicks. If the people used a piece of outdoor

> equipment in an unsafe manner in an inherently risky activity, it's on

> them.

>

> (this article in the Statesman Journal has slightly more information)

> https://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/news/2018/05/08/dicks-sporting-goods-sued-after-new-kayaks-capsize-santiam-river/587458002/

 

--

John (jkohnen@...)

Any doctrine that will not bear investigation is not a fit tenant for

the mind of an honest man. (Robert G. Ingersoll)

 

 

 

 


Re: Even more idiots on the water

Hank
 

From what I read the purchasers did not know why it was in there and apparently the clerks didn't know either. When I first got a sea kayak I did not know about the foam in the bow.  Took it to a class in a pool on rolling techniques where they had a big sign to remove any flotation material from your kayak.  Kind of embarrassing as my kayak would not sink.  LOL  They were nice enough to not ask if I had a reading problem.

Hank

On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 2:48 PM, John Kohnen <jkohnen@...> wrote:
Sounds like there were a couple of numbskulls at the Salem Dick's. <sigh> Old Town used to be a fine company, now they're selling el cheapo plastic kayaks whose flotation can be mistaken for packing foam. <sigh>

But did the purchasers ask the Dick's idiots to remove the flotation?

On 5/9/2018 6:23 AM, Andrew wrote:
People suing Dicks Sporting Goods because they dumped their kayaks
http://katu.com/news/local/salem-residents-sue-dicks-sporting-goods-for-455k-after-kayaks-sink


--
John (jkohnen@...)
It is the dull man who is always sure, and the sure man who is always dull. (H. L. Mencken)






Re: Even more idiots on the water

 

Be careful who you're selling stuff to. ;o)

"Orrio, a former Marion County deputy district attorney, and McCallum decided to try the kayaks for the first time and launched into the Santiam River near Mehama."

The articles make it sound like the foam was structural as well as flotation, or that's what the plaintiffs are claiming. I think there were a bunch of idiots involved, on both sides. <sigh>

On 5/9/2018 8:53 AM, Andrew wrote:
...
I am biased against the injured parties because the Old Town Trip 10 is a fishing/flat water kayak. The Santiam is not considered flat water - in fact, the man was swept into "class II rapids" (if I recall, class II isn't much, but it's not flat, either.)
Yeah, so I don't know. Did the employees damage the kayaks removing the foam? Was the foam for shipping or flotation? Of less importance is the question "Were the kayaks loaded appropriately for the conditions? Were they the correct kayaks for the conditions?"
My opinion - and I ain't no lawyer - is if the employees damaged the kayaks - it's the fault of Dicks. If the people used a piece of outdoor equipment in an unsafe manner in an inherently risky activity, it's on them.
(this article in the Statesman Journal has slightly more information)
https://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/news/2018/05/08/dicks-sporting-goods-sued-after-new-kayaks-capsize-santiam-river/587458002/
--
John (jkohnen@...)
Any doctrine that will not bear investigation is not a fit tenant for the mind of an honest man. (Robert G. Ingersoll)


Re: Even more idiots on the water

 

Sounds like there were a couple of numbskulls at the Salem Dick's. <sigh> Old Town used to be a fine company, now they're selling el cheapo plastic kayaks whose flotation can be mistaken for packing foam. <sigh>

But did the purchasers ask the Dick's idiots to remove the flotation?

On 5/9/2018 6:23 AM, Andrew wrote:
People suing Dicks Sporting Goods because they dumped their kayaks
http://katu.com/news/local/salem-residents-sue-dicks-sporting-goods-for-455k-after-kayaks-sink
--
John (jkohnen@...)
It is the dull man who is always sure, and the sure man who is always dull. (H. L. Mencken)


Re: Even more idiots on the water

Andrew Linn
 

That's one take on it. I looked at a couple videos and reviews of the Old Town Trip 10 kayaks and saw nothing one way or the other about foam flotation - nothing in Old Town's promos about them, either. Without proof one way or the other, I am going to look to other sources.

The employees said the foam was for shipping. It might be. If it was, then reaching in and sticking it with a screwdriver would be an easy and acceptable way of getting a piece of foam out of a small space. If they had to gouge and dig, that makes me think the foam was glued in. That the injured parties claim the employees "proceeded to remove the squares from each kayak with a screwdriver and a knife" would not be unexpected or uncommon in a lawsuit - you have to make yourself look good.

I am biased against the injured parties because the Old Town Trip 10 is a fishing/flat water kayak. The Santiam is not considered flat water - in fact, the man was swept into "class II rapids" (if I recall, class II isn't much, but it's not flat, either.)

Yeah, so I don't know. Did the employees damage the kayaks removing the foam? Was the foam for shipping or flotation? Of less importance is the question "Were the kayaks loaded appropriately for the conditions? Were they the correct kayaks for the conditions?"

My opinion - and I ain't no lawyer - is if the employees damaged the kayaks - it's the fault of Dicks. If the people used a piece of outdoor equipment in an unsafe manner in an inherently risky activity, it's on them.

(this article in the Statesman Journal has slightly more information)
https://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/news/2018/05/08/dicks-sporting-goods-sued-after-new-kayaks-capsize-santiam-river/587458002/

On 5/9/2018 8:17 AM, Hank wrote:
Maybe the idiots this time were the store employees who removed the flotation foam from the kayaks?  Wonder if the poked holes in the shell using those screwdrivers?

Hank

On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 6:23 AM, Andrew Linn <alinn@... <mailto:alinn@...>> wrote:

People suing Dicks Sporting Goods because they dumped their kayaks
http://katu.com/news/local/salem-residents-sue-dicks-sporting-goods-for-455k-after-kayaks-sink
<http://katu.com/news/local/salem-residents-sue-dicks-sporting-goods-for-455k-after-kayaks-sink>


Re: Even more idiots on the water

Hank
 

Maybe the idiots this time were the store employees who removed the flotation foam from the kayaks?  Wonder if the poked holes in the shell using those screwdrivers?

Hank

On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 6:23 AM, Andrew Linn <alinn@...> wrote:
People suing Dicks Sporting Goods because they dumped their kayaks
http://katu.com/news/local/salem-residents-sue-dicks-sporting-goods-for-455k-after-kayaks-sink







Even more idiots on the water

Andrew Linn
 

People suing Dicks Sporting Goods because they dumped their kayaks
http://katu.com/news/local/salem-residents-sue-dicks-sporting-goods-for-455k-after-kayaks-sink

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